Who will stop the rot?

[Myron Gaines]

Who will stop the rot? Maybe it’s not who we imagined.

Taken from a recent fox sports article that I’ll link below includes our best performed players rated by champion data & another group that are rated above average.

What stood out to me in this article was there was no mention of Carlisle. Or Steven. Or any other player in that older age bracket. They are all aged between 21-25 which suggests our nucleus of best performed players (as rated by CD) are still young with the best footy ahead of them.

Here’s the quote from the article which includes those players:

“The best players at St Kilda are primarily aged between 21 and 25. Their top-four rated players last year by Champion Data were Jade Gresham (21), Daniel McKenzie (22), Jimmy Webster (25) and Blake Acres (23).

Add in more above average players like Jack Sinclair (24), Jack Steele (23) and Jack Billings (23), and you can see a group coming together.”

Perhaps pre season optimism is kicking in & I’ll rightfully be put into my place at half time this weekend.

Maybe not a finals team yet however there’s a glimmer of hope shining through suggesting we have some decent talent coming through.

Over to you St Kilda FC.

https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/afl-se ... ba0ebc3910

[spert]

I think the hope lies in the right mix of players who can get it together as a team- a winning unit. Our best players are very good at best, not elite, though Steven has had a few flashes of brilliance here and there in some games. We really have no outright champs who can drag a team over the line on a consistent basis, but maybe with new recruits we may develop something. We do really need some of the guys who have been with us a while now, to get more consistent, put in a little harder, run a bit faster and lead by example.

[DJ Higgins]

I think you are looking at it from the wrong side. The biggest potential rot stopper is not a player, it's Ratten or our next coach/es. Players progress based on coaching staff and they all have talent but we need to get the best out of them and then give them a game style to suit

[Myron Gaines]

I think you are looking at it from the wrong side. The biggest potential rot stopper is not a player, it's Ratten or our next coach/es. Players progress based on coaching staff and they all have talent but we need to get the best out of them and then give them a game style to suit

I’m not going to totally disagree with you because changing the fortunes of the club is a collective of on & off field personnel, which includes the playing group & the coaches.

I will say though that I am merely pointing out which players may contribute to improving our win-loss record going forward & it’s not necessarily the players we automatically assume.

Gresham, Billings, Sinclair, Steele, Acres, McKenzie & Webster are all young but also smaller types, most capable of playing through the midfield - the most critical position/s in the game.

We obviously need that group to continue to improve with some reaching elite or at least A grade levels to continue the improvement trajectory.

Then we need others such as Dunstan, Clark, Coffield, Long, etc to contribute & improve along with them.

[Crossy66]

I think you are looking at it from the wrong side. The biggest potential rot stopper is not a player, it's Ratten or our next coach/es. Players progress based on coaching staff and they all have talent but we need to get the best out of them and then give them a game style to suit

I’m not going to totally disagree with you because changing the fortunes of the club is a collective of on & off field personnel, which includes the playing group & the coaches.

I will say though that I am merely pointing out which players may contribute to improving our win-loss record going forward & it’s not necessarily the players we automatically assume.

Gresham, Billings, Sinclair, Steele, Acres, McKenzie & Webster are all young but also smaller types, most capable of playing through the midfield - the most critical position/s in the game.

We obviously need that group to continue to improve with some reaching elite or at least A grade levels to continue the improvement trajectory.

Then we need others such as Dunstan, Clark, Coffield, Long, etc to contribute & improve along with them.

I have listened to a number of coaches and presidents talk about what it took to win a flag and they all mention that everything has to be in alignment from the president to the bootstudder, on and off field. you also need luck and not just with injury and also stability. so I agree it is a collaborative effort .
I think the off field changes have been for the better and i believe our list is way better that the 2018 result.
Regardless of how we go in 2019, we will take a big step forward as the questions surrounding the coach will be answered. I think the club did the right thing supporting the coach, but its on his shoulders to justify the faith.

[gone fission]

Alarm bells are ringing if our second highest ranked player averages 6 kicks per game - Daniel McKenzie… and if he is our second best player according to CD rankings, why didn't he get a game until round 10 last year?

The main problem with that list of players is that only one is a genuine mid - Steele and it will get harder to control a game through the flanks with the new rules.

A team that finished below us is building a pretty serious young midfield - Cripps, Walsh, Setterfield, Fisher, Dow, O’Brien, Stocker.

[Myron Gaines]

Alarm bells are ringing if our second highest ranked player averages 6 kicks per game - Daniel McKenzie… and if he is our second best player according to CD rankings, why didn't he get a game until round 10 last year?

The main problem with that list of players is that only one is a genuine mid - Steele and it will get harder to control a game through the flanks with the new rules.

A team that finished below us is building a pretty serious young midfield - Cripps, Walsh, Setterfield, Fisher, Dow, O’Brien, Stocker.

Champion data values critical stats such as intercept marks/intercept possessions, rebound 50s, contested possessions, score involvements & inside 50 entries. Basic stats such as overal disposals & kicks aren’t overly valued.

You’ll notice that Seb Ross is not rated that highly even know he averages around 30 disposals a game. This is because he is not damaging. CD rate players largely on effectiveness & impact on games. Cyril Rioli was rated very high based on their criteria. McKenzie might only average 13.5 disposals per game but a large percentage is contested possessions & intercept possessions.

In regard to Carlton, they’ve won more spoons compared to anyone since 2000 & are the reigning wooden spooners. Need to pump the breaks on them. Apart from Cripps the players you mentioned are unproven. Some have shown talent & some haven’t played. Additionally, Fisher & O’Brien are flankers (wingers at a pinch). You could have as easily mentioned Clark, Coffield, Long, Bytel.

[gone fission]

Alarm bells are ringing if our second highest ranked player averages 6 kicks per game - Daniel McKenzie… and if he is our second best player according to CD rankings, why didn't he get a game until round 10 last year?

The main problem with that list of players is that only one is a genuine mid - Steele and it will get harder to control a game through the flanks with the new rules.

A team that finished below us is building a pretty serious young midfield - Cripps, Walsh, Setterfield, Fisher, Dow, O’Brien, Stocker.

Champion data values critical stats such as intercept marks/intercept possessions, rebound 50s, contested possessions, score involvements & inside 50 entries. Basic stats such as overal disposals & kicks aren’t overly valued.

You’ll notice that Seb Ross is not rated that highly even know he averages around 30 disposals a game. This is because he is not damaging. CD rate players largely on effectiveness & impact on games. Cyril Rioli was rated very high based on their criteria. McKenzie might only average 13.5 disposals per game but a large percentage is contested possessions & intercept possessions.

In regard to Carlton, they’ve won more spoons compared to anyone since 2000 & are the reigning wooden spooners. Need to pump the breaks on them. Apart from Cripps the players you mentioned are unproven. Some have shown talent & some haven’t played. Additionally, Fisher & O’Brien are flankers (wingers at a pinch). You could have as easily mentioned Clark, Coffield, Long, Bytel.

Thanks, I understand how Champion Data rankings work, but if D-Mac is our second ranked player our list is in bad shape.

Carlton have clearly been terrible and those mids are absolutely unproven, but I think that core is going to become a pretty strong midfield unit.

[gringo]

Alarm bells are ringing if our second highest ranked player averages 6 kicks per game - Daniel McKenzie… and if he is our second best player according to CD rankings, why didn't he get a game until round 10 last year?

The main problem with that list of players is that only one is a genuine mid - Steele and it will get harder to control a game through the flanks with the new rules.

A team that finished below us is building a pretty serious young midfield - Cripps, Walsh, Setterfield, Fisher, Dow, O’Brien, Stocker.

Champion data values critical stats such as intercept marks/intercept possessions, rebound 50s, contested possessions, score involvements & inside 50 entries. Basic stats such as overal disposals & kicks aren’t overly valued.

You’ll notice that Seb Ross is not rated that highly even know he averages around 30 disposals a game. This is because he is not damaging. CD rate players largely on effectiveness & impact on games. Cyril Rioli was rated very high based on their criteria. McKenzie might only average 13.5 disposals per game but a large percentage is contested possessions & intercept possessions.

In regard to Carlton, they’ve won more spoons compared to anyone since 2000 & are the reigning wooden spooners. Need to pump the breaks on them. Apart from Cripps the players you mentioned are unproven. Some have shown talent & some haven’t played. Additionally, Fisher & O’Brien are flankers (wingers at a pinch). You could have as easily mentioned Clark, Coffield, Long, Bytel.

Thanks, I understand how Champion Data rankings work, but if D-Mac is our second ranked player our list is in bad shape.

Carlton have clearly been terrible and those mids are absolutely unproven, but I think that core is going to become a pretty strong midfield unit.

Yeah, I still don't rate our drafting at all. Apart from Gresham we would be close to the worst club in the AFL for talent acquisition. Steele looks good as well and Acres still has a potential but to have one A+ grade player since the early 2000s is embarrassingly bad. Carlton at least look to have a few really high impact kids that give their members hope.

[DJ Higgins]

I know it's the battle cry of the loser but next year looks good.

Making some assumptions of course
Forwards.
Paddy goes and we get a compensation pick at 20ish. King will now have a preseason in him as well as a handful of games from this season. Parker looks good and Kent seems handy, long has huge potentially, battle can swing if needed and Marshall can ruck and also float forward.

Midfield
Billings and gresh will have Better tanks for the midfield and more experience in those role. Dan hanneberry I think will be a bust in the field but great off it. Not worth the cash but being positive.. Steele will be on the cusp of AA squad if not team, Jack Steven is well Jack Steven , hunter Clarke is living up to his potential already, bytel may be good but no one knows yet. Most importantly if there isn't a amazing once in a decade kdp or ruck in the draft we finally draft another outside mid with pick1-4. For the love of God please.

Backs
Carlisle will be back. Huge plus. Webster is better than most realise, Brown may get another contract after being our lynch pin this year. Marsh and battle may make great backs. Battle I think should be a forward and think his accuracy is wasted up back but if he plays as a genuine swing man then I'll let it pass. Joyce I'm unsure of yet. HBF we have so many surely some come good. Hind needs to add weight but is quick, Coffield should improve

Rucks
Marshall and longer, one of you please learn how to ruck.

Coaches
Richo goneski unless a miracle occurs so Ratten to take over or we get a newbie. Don't care as long as a change occurs

[gringo]

I know it's the battle cry of the loser but next year looks good.

Making some assumptions of course
Forwards.
Paddy goes and we get a compensation pick at 20ish. King will now have a preseason in him as well as a handful of games from this season. Parker looks good and Kent seems handy, long has huge potentially, battle can swing if needed and Marshall can ruck and also float forward.

Midfield
Billings and gresh will have Better tanks for the midfield and more experience in those role. Dan hanneberry I think will be a bust in the field but great off it. Not worth the cash but being positive.. Steele will be on the cusp of AA squad if not team, Jack Steven is well Jack Steven , hunter Clarke is living up to his potential already, bytel may be good but no one knows yet. Most importantly if there isn't a amazing once in a decade kdp or ruck in the draft we finally draft another outside mid with pick1-4. For the love of God please.

Backs
Carlisle will be back. Huge plus. Webster is better than most realise, Brown may get another contract after being our lynch pin this year. Marsh and battle may make great backs. Battle I think should be a forward and think his accuracy is wasted up back but if he plays as a genuine swing man then I'll let it pass. Joyce I'm unsure of yet. HBF we have so many surely some come good. Hind needs to add weight but is quick, Coffield should improve

Rucks
Marshall and longer, one of you please learn how to ruck.

Coaches
Richo goneski unless a miracle occurs so Ratten to take over or we get a newbie. Don't care as long as a change occurs

I don't buy the Hanners off field stuff, he's a known party boy and his inability to train with the main group surely limits what he does to motivate the kids. Perhaps it's just in the weights room or something?

[Myron Gaines]

This quote from Richo suggests it may have finally clicked.

“There needs to be a real element of smarts to our play as opposed to just being about pressure which is probably where we’ve been.”

[shanegrambeau]

This quote from Richo suggests it may have finally clicked.

“There needs to be a real element of smarts to our play as opposed to just being about pressure which is probably where we’ve been.”

Sounds like a PR statement. Surely, they knew that manic-pressure is not enough and game smarts count back when. However, could be that they are focusing more on smarts..I hope so.

Watson said on SEN today that Richo may have said Hanners is a month out because he is trying to manage expectations.

[saynta]

You could see from the JLT games that the saints have changed their game plan. Now it is a lot more like Hawthorns' with players dropping back in defence in case there is a turnover.

Richo is spot on the money.

[saintspremiers]

You could see from the JLT games that the saints have changed their game plan. Now it is a lot more like Hawthorns' with players dropping back in defence in case there is a turnover.

Richo is spot on the money.

You mean Ratten. He would’ve walked in and told Richo he has NFI what he’s doing - in a PC way of course!

Thank the lord we have some coaches now with brains.

[samuraisaint]

And you think we've got problems:

[Dave McNamara]

This quote from Richo suggests it may have finally clicked.

“There needs to be a real element of smarts to our play as opposed to just being about pressure which is probably where we’ve been.”

Lets see...

what, after ten-odd years in various assistant choaching positions...?

and five-odd years as the/our senior choach...?

the Richo' has finally worked that one out...




Gawd help us!

[Yorkeys]

Richo, when asked, spelt it Strams. The rot will hopefully stop by the Pres and the players getting on the same page and b- passing several layers of dunce. Thank goodness we have Lade and Ratten, strong proud characters. Anyway rot stops Sunday.

[Scollop]

I think you are looking at it from the wrong side. The biggest potential rot stopper is not a player, it's Ratten or our next coach/es. Players progress based on coaching staff and they all have talent but we need to get the best out of them and then give them a game style to suit

I’m not going to totally disagree with you because changing the fortunes of the club is a collective of on & off field personnel, which includes the playing group & the coaches.

I will say though that I am merely pointing out which players may contribute to improving our win-loss record going forward & it’s not necessarily the players we automatically assume.

Gresham, Billings, Sinclair, Steele, Acres, McKenzie & Webster are all young but also smaller types, most capable of playing through the midfield - the most critical position/s in the game.

We obviously need that group to continue to improve with some reaching elite or at least A grade levels to continue the improvement trajectory.

Then we need others such as Dunstan, Clark, Coffield, Long, etc to contribute & improve along with them.

BUMP

Good posts and early calls by MG, DJ H, and not forgetting good 'ol Yorkeys...or shoould that be 'the young fella Yorkeys'!?

I knows there's another thread on Adelaide being ripe for the picking, but I love going back to old threads and seeing which posters got it right. Most of the players named by MG are in really good form along with Seb back to his 2017 best and not forgetting the surprise packets in Marshall and Wilkie.

I predict our 'improvement trajectory' to go parabolic in the next few weeks

[To the top]

"Champion Data" is abject Crap, with a capita; "C"

It is the stuff of fantasy football played on a Keyboard, not the real game.

And it gives lazy Media Hacks something to write to thru the bottom of their (beer or wine) glasses

[Toy Saint]

"Champion data" is a load of crap.

They rate Mckenzie & Sinclair as our best players, and they rate Melbourne is the highest rated team this year.

[Myron Gaines]

"Champion data" is a load of crap.

They rate Mckenzie & Sinclair as our best players, and they rate Melbourne is the highest rated team this year.

There’s certainly some anomalies. Isn’t Rohan Marshall the highest rated player since round 11 or thereabouts?