Lock for Bottom 4?

[Shaggy]

.

[Shaggy]

The dogshit that samoht regurgitates adnauseum is not only lazy and predictable - it's incorrect.

The popular horsesh1t being peddled on here - reducing everything down so as to blame the coach at every turn - is what's lazy and predictable.
That logic (or lack of) would have got Buckley and Hardwick sacked.

Wins after first 100 games as AFL coach:

Buckley - 55
Hardwick - 45
Richo - 34

Buckley took over a team which had won 20 games out of 22 the year before.

Hardwick took over a team which had Cotchin, riedwoldt, Dusty, Rance and Diledeo in his first year, and had nearly made the finals 2 years prior with a very young list.

Richo took over a list on a downward spiral. The best players remaining are Jack Steven, Billings and Robbo from his first year. Good players but our list has needed serious rebuilding under Richo.

[GilsAuPair]

The dogshit that samoht regurgitates adnauseum is not only lazy and predictable - it's incorrect.

The popular horsesh1t being peddled on here - reducing everything down so as to blame the coach at every turn - is what's lazy and predictable.
That logic (or lack of) would have got Buckley and Hardwick sacked.

Wins after first 100 games as AFL coach:

Buckley - 55
Hardwick - 45
Richo - 34

Buckley took over a team which had won 20 games out of 22 the year before.

Hardwick took over a team which had Cotchin, riedwoldt, Dusty, Rance and Diledeo in his first year, and had nearly made the finals 2 years prior with a very young list.

Richo took over a list on a downward spiral. The best players remaining are Jack Steven, Billings and Robbo from his first year. Good players but our list has needed serious rebuilding under Richo.

You realise Richmond finished 2nd last in 2010. Those players you list as current day stars were all nobodies when Hardwick took over. They took 3-5 years to come good under Hardwick.

As for Collingwood. They WON a flag in 2010(remember?) and then played off in a GF in 2011.
By rights they were due for a fall and re-build after losing the likes of Swan, Shaw, Thomas, Maxwell, Didak, Cloke, Beams, O'Brien etc.
Which they have done.

Richo has had more than enough time to get a good group up going if he is good enough imo.

[shanegrambeau]

So list wise we are bottom two according to SEN? They rate the lists of their 'bottom three' and Carlton is their clear winner. Guess this makes us 17th! https://www.sen.com.au/news/2019/03/05/ ... old-coast/

However, they didn't talk about coaching, management, culture, team spirit, the motivational narrative (we fight back) etc., so here are clearly in top spot!

[Shaggy]

The dogshit that samoht regurgitates adnauseum is not only lazy and predictable - it's incorrect.

The popular horsesh1t being peddled on here - reducing everything down so as to blame the coach at every turn - is what's lazy and predictable.
That logic (or lack of) would have got Buckley and Hardwick sacked.

Wins after first 100 games as AFL coach:

Buckley - 55
Hardwick - 45
Richo - 34

Buckley took over a team which had won 20 games out of 22 the year before.

Hardwick took over a team which had Cotchin, riedwoldt, Dusty, Rance and Diledeo in his first year, and had nearly made the finals 2 years prior with a very young list.

Richo took over a list on a downward spiral. The best players remaining are Jack Steven, Billings and Robbo from his first year. Good players but our list has needed serious rebuilding under Richo.

You realise Richmond finished 2nd last in 2010. Those players you list as current day stars were all nobodies when Hardwick took over. They took 3-5 years to come good under Hardwick.

As for Collingwood. They WON a flag in 2010(remember?) and then played off in a GF in 2011.
By rights they were due for a fall and re-build after losing the likes of Swan, Shaw, Thomas, Maxwell, Didak, Cloke, Beams, O'Brien etc.
Which they have done.

Richo has had more than enough time to get a good group up going if he is good enough imo.

Hardwick inherited players who took 3-5 years to develop to superstars.

Richo in his first year did not inherit superstars. Hardwick was lucky.

Collingwood won the flag in 2010 with an average age of 24 years 2 months which is really young. We were nearly averaging 27 years old in 2010. Collingwood was 25 years & 10 months old in 2018 GF.
Buckley got trade value for Shaw, Thomas, Cloke, Beams & O'Brien because they did not retire, Buckley did not want them.

There is a difference.

By rights Collingwood should have won a couple of flags since 2010 IMO.

If you want to judge Richo as having equal opportunity with the others. it is not true. He has been working with a crap list. Regardless IMO Richo is not a special coach. But most are not. Clarko is.

[DJ Higgins]

Richo has had long enough to have his own list now so enough of those kind of excuses. He isn't making them so no one else should in his behalf

.He is part of the recruiting team and is a development coach so recruiting poorly is partly on him, not recruiting players to fill holes in a few years is on him ie where is another quick outside mid, it's been 6 years. Luckily we have an abundance of half back flankers for some reason???

The ruck he gets a pass on as that is not his area and we have drafted plenty but none have come on, that's on the ruck coach

Look at our skill levels. Are they any good? No they are crap so who is responsible for developing skills?

Buckley was never on the verge of being let go, the board saw what he was doing and building and new it took time as did Hardwick and Richmond. What is Richo building towards, where is his game plan, where are his game winning tactics. Long bomb into 50? Let's try it again and again eventually we will get one.

Bottom line is he is done this year unless we improve dramatically and I can't see it happening. Carlisle gone, Jack Steven MAY not be at 100%, hanneberry is this year's Freeman. IE hamstring issues so he is 2 weeks away again. King won't play until July August and that will be at Sandy to give him a chance to get his form back Where are the wins coming from?

[The_Dud]

Richo has had plenty of time to build a list, that’s no excuse anymore.

[barneyboyz]

I blame Richo too for what he's in control of, that he's not getting right - what exactly that is varies widely (too widely for mine), and personal bias comes into it , while I'm trying to be objective.
It's a lot more complicated than meets the eye. There are many factors at play - Steele credited Richo for his rapid development and rise last year. - he didn't name any midfield development coaches - he mentioned and credited Richo only.
Others might want to overlook this detail - but I'm not going to.

Carlisle is an important cog in our team - he's much more influential and important to us than he was at Essendon (to Essendon). What's stopping other players from developing too and playing to their potential - and joining Membrey, Steele, Ross, Roberton, Carlisle etc - is it Richo?
It can't only be him (we can't blame Richo for everything - or nigh on everything)
I'm providing the counter (and unpopular) argument - we should look at all the underlying reasons for where we're at - and we need to leave our biases aside.
That's the only way we will get to the truth - or move closer to it.

I think that's what they have been trying to do over the last six months?

[barneyboyz]

I blame Richo too for what he's in control of, that he's not getting right - what exactly that is varies widely (too widely for mine), and personal bias comes into it , while I'm trying to be objective.
It's a lot more complicated than meets the eye. There are many factors at play - Steele credited Richo for his rapid development and rise last year. - he didn't name any midfield development coaches - he mentioned and credited Richo only.
Others might want to overlook this detail - but I'm not going to.

Carlisle is an important cog in our team - he's much more influential and important to us than he was at Essendon (to Essendon). What's stopping other players from developing too and playing to their potential - and joining Membrey, Steele, Ross, Roberton, Carlisle etc - is it Richo?
It can't only be him (we can't blame Richo for everything - or nigh on everything)
I'm providing the counter (and unpopular) argument - we should look at all the underlying reasons for where we're at - and we need to leave our biases aside.
That's the only way we will get to the truth - or move closer to it.

I think that's what they have been trying to do over the last six months?

Also, knowing what is right or wrong at any football club is like trying to find out how long a piece of string is

[rodgerfox]

The dogshit that samoht regurgitates adnauseum is not only lazy and predictable - it's incorrect.

The popular horsesh1t being peddled on here - reducing everything down so as to blame the coach at every turn - is what's lazy and predictable.

Two wrongs don't make a right.

[shanegrambeau]

Pythageran predictions reported on FOX for the 2018 season are here:

Richmond: 18 wins, 16.8 Pythagorean wins

West Coast: 16 wins, 14.9 Pythagorean wins

Hawthorn: 15 wins, 14.7 Pythagorean wins

Collingwood: 15 wins, 14.8 Pythagorean wins

Sydney Swans: 14 wins, 12.9 Pythagorean wins

GWS Giants: 13.5 wins, 13.7 Pythagorean wins

North Melbourne: 12 wins, 12.8 Pythagorean wins

Port Adelaide: 12 wins, 12.5 Pythagorean wins

Essendon: 12 wins, 12 Pythagorean wins

Adelaide Crows: 12 wins, 11.8 Pythagorean wins

St Kilda: 4.5 wins, 5.6 Pythagorean wins

Gold Coast Suns: 4 wins, 2.7 Pythagorean wins

Carlton: 2 wins, 2.6 Pythagorean wins

...and they are staggeringly accurate.

Anyone know what they are for 2019?
Are they BS or real statistically generated predictions?
URL : https://www.google.co.jp/amp/s/coupler. ... 0b4e9e1a39

St Kilda won 1.1 less games than predicted but the accuracy of those other predictions blows my mind. Please tell me they are not real!
Perhaps they generated algorithms post season and retrospectively applies them?

[kosifantutti]

Pythageran predictions reported on FOX for the 2018 season are here:

Richmond: 18 wins, 16.8 Pythagorean wins

West Coast: 16 wins, 14.9 Pythagorean wins

Hawthorn: 15 wins, 14.7 Pythagorean wins

Collingwood: 15 wins, 14.8 Pythagorean wins

Sydney Swans: 14 wins, 12.9 Pythagorean wins

GWS Giants: 13.5 wins, 13.7 Pythagorean wins

North Melbourne: 12 wins, 12.8 Pythagorean wins

Port Adelaide: 12 wins, 12.5 Pythagorean wins

Essendon: 12 wins, 12 Pythagorean wins

Adelaide Crows: 12 wins, 11.8 Pythagorean wins

St Kilda: 4.5 wins, 5.6 Pythagorean wins

Gold Coast Suns: 4 wins, 2.7 Pythagorean wins

Carlton: 2 wins, 2.6 Pythagorean wins

...and they are staggeringly accurate.

Anyone know what they are for 2019?
Are they BS or real statistically generated predictions?
URL : https://www.google.co.jp/amp/s/coupler. ... 0b4e9e1a39

St Kilda won 1.1 less games than predicted but the accuracy of those other predictions blows my mind. Please tell me they are not real!
Perhaps they generated algorithms post season and retrospectively applies them?

If I was generating an algorithm and applying it retrospectively the algorithm would be, number of expected wins = number of actual wins.

[Scollop]

Ahaa!! 100% accuracy and perfection

[shanegrambeau]

Right, so what is the point of the whole exercise?

[samuraisaint]

8 wins and the usual heavy losses interstate and at Geelong if we have a poor year.

9 wins and several very narrow losses if we have a good one.

[Shaggy]

Richo has had long enough to have his own list now so enough of those kind of excuses. He isn't making them so no one else should in his behalf

.He is part of the recruiting team and is a development coach so recruiting poorly is partly on him, not recruiting players to fill holes in a few years is on him ie where is another quick outside mid, it's been 6 years. Luckily we have an abundance of half back flankers for some reason???

The ruck he gets a pass on as that is not his area and we have drafted plenty but none have come on, that's on the ruck coach

Look at our skill levels. Are they any good? No they are crap so who is responsible for developing skills?

Buckley was never on the verge of being let go, the board saw what he was doing and building and new it took time as did Hardwick and Richmond. What is Richo building towards, where is his game plan, where are his game winning tactics. Long bomb into 50? Let's try it again and again eventually we will get one.

Bottom line is he is done this year unless we improve dramatically and I can't see it happening. Carlisle gone, Jack Steven MAY not be at 100%, hanneberry is this year's Freeman. IE hamstring issues so he is 2 weeks away again. King won't play until July August and that will be at Sandy to give him a chance to get his form back Where are the wins coming from?

Lol you have just put down all the reasons why Richo should have excuses for this year.

But I think the team we have built is good and will perform regardless of Carlisle, Steven, Hanneberry and King. Steele, Billings and Gresham. As a dark horse Marshall. Clark is real. We have players seriously developing at the top end IMO.

[thejiggingsaint]

Well, (so far) the Coaches and players appear not to have read the script! We already have more wins at Docklands than we had last season (albeit by narrow margins) We are at round five and are only one win away from equalling last seasons total of wins! Small steps, yes, but IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION!

[mightysainters]

I created this thread and it really pained me:. Couldn’t be happier with the effort and structure thus far. Love Ratten

[philtee]

Is it just me, or does the current game style look similar to the "100% defensive pressure" style that Ross Lyon brought to the club 10 years ago?
For long periods of Sunday's match Hawthorn simply couldn't score. In the last quarter, the Hawks didn't kick a goal.
Last year, Saints were 2nd last in season tackles laid. This year, FIRST. (Source - Footywire).
That can't all be down to Billy Slater.

[saynta]

Is it just me, or does the current game style look similar to the "100% defensive pressure" style that Ross Lyon brought to the club 10 years ago?
For long periods of Sunday's match Hawthorn simply couldn't score. In the last quarter, the Hawks didn't kick a goal.
Last year, Saints were 2nd last in season tackles laid. This year, FIRST. (Source - Footywire).
That can't all be down to Billy Slater.

No nothing like it imho. For a start you can't flood back at the center bounce nor can you continually play an extra man in defence as Tosser the Flosser did.

[thejiggingsaint]

I created this thread and it really pained me:. Couldn’t be happier with the effort and structure thus far. Love Ratten

I dont think many of us were relishing this season mate. I couldn't care less about Richardson's "win-loss" ratio for 2014-18.... it's all HISTORY now and has NO bearing on 2019, other than to see what an awful season 2018 was, and that the club coaches and players seem determined to ensure it doesn't repeat.

[twirlyhair]

Richo has had long enough to have his own list now so enough of those kind of excuses. He isn't making them so no one else should in his behalf

.He is part of the recruiting team and is a development coach so recruiting poorly is partly on him, not recruiting players to fill holes in a few years is on him ie where is another quick outside mid, it's been 6 years. Luckily we have an abundance of half back flankers for some reason???

The ruck he gets a pass on as that is not his area and we have drafted plenty but none have come on, that's on the ruck coach

Look at our skill levels. Are they any good? No they are crap so who is responsible for developing skills?

Buckley was never on the verge of being let go, the board saw what he was doing and building and new it took time as did Hardwick and Richmond. What is Richo building towards, where is his game plan, where are his game winning tactics. Long bomb into 50? Let's try it again and again eventually we will get one.

Bottom line is he is done this year unless we improve dramatically and I can't see it happening. Carlisle gone, Jack Steven MAY not be at 100%, hanneberry is this year's Freeman. IE hamstring issues so he is 2 weeks away again. King won't play until July August and that will be at Sandy to give him a chance to get his form back Where are the wins coming from?

Lol you have just put down all the reasons why Richo should have excuses for this year.

But I think the team we have built is good and will perform regardless of Carlisle, Steven, Hanneberry and King. Steele, Billings and Gresham. As a dark horse Marshall. Clark is real. We have players seriously developing at the top end IMO.

Nice foresight!

[DJ Higgins]

3 fairly lucky wins , 2 under a goal is great be we could very easily be sitting 1-3. Not being negative but let's wait until we are 10 games in before we make a call one way or the other

[saynta]

3 fairly lucky wins , 2 under a goal is great be we could very easily be sitting 1-3. Not being negative but let's wait until we are 10 games in before we make a call one way or the other

And we could just as easily be 4 zip and sitting on top of the ladder.

Wouldn't that have been a real hoot?

[Cairnsman]

Richo has had long enough to have his own list now so enough of those kind of excuses. He isn't making them so no one else should in his behalf

.He is part of the recruiting team and is a development coach so recruiting poorly is partly on him, not recruiting players to fill holes in a few years is on him ie where is another quick outside mid, it's been 6 years. Luckily we have an abundance of half back flankers for some reason???

The ruck he gets a pass on as that is not his area and we have drafted plenty but none have come on, that's on the ruck coach

Look at our skill levels. Are they any good? No they are crap so who is responsible for developing skills?

Buckley was never on the verge of being let go, the board saw what he was doing and building and new it took time as did Hardwick and Richmond. What is Richo building towards, where is his game plan, where are his game winning tactics. Long bomb into 50? Let's try it again and again eventually we will get one.

Bottom line is he is done this year unless we improve dramatically and I can't see it happening. Carlisle gone, Jack Steven MAY not be at 100%, hanneberry is this year's Freeman. IE hamstring issues so he is 2 weeks away again. King won't play until July August and that will be at Sandy to give him a chance to get his form back Where are the wins coming from?

Lol you have just put down all the reasons why Richo should have excuses for this year.

But I think the team we have built is good and will perform regardless of Carlisle, Steven, Hanneberry and King. Steele, Billings and Gresham. As a dark horse Marshall. Clark is real. We have players seriously developing at the top end IMO.

Shaggy wins the SS free thinkers award for 2019.

Clearly Shaggy you have a keen eye on the club and not the Herald Sun for your form guide.