Lock for Bottom 4?

[Scollop]

We’ll have a great battle with the Suns for that wooden trophy. For awhile there it looked like it was there’s for the taking.

They've got a better midfield than ours and Hanley and a few others are back from injury so I wouldn't be surprised if they beat us at Marvel round 1. Their early form is usually good and it looks like this year is no different

[mightysainters]

Just hope King stays with us and isn’t up at the coast with his bro in a couple of years.

Didn’t u hear? His brother will definitely join him in 2 years.. that’s why we picked up the second best KPF in a midfielders draft with pick 4 who hasn’t played in a year coming off a knee

[Yorkeys]

Samoht is getting to me and I now reluctantly accept the dual lead weights in the saddles are recruitment which seems to be predicated on hope for the ever elusive coming seasons rather than immediate impact, and AR. Max, mighty prospect that he may be is a WIP. Bytel a WIP. Where is a good ruckman to help Lewis. Where is a durable classy mid that can do a preseason and front up without an ever hanging cloud over an ability to run and turn. As we are painfully aware we have no individual game changers; we have to have all parts working together for the whole game to be competitive. There have been a lot of seasons and a lot of money available since we last played finals to get a real gun and the club has not got one that can get on the park today. Of course we never know the thinking at the draft but to pick Max there must have been an assumption Paddy or Josh B would fire. That is a heroic assumption. Like many on here I find the retention of AR and the same old same old references to processes and off field changes without improving playing stocks (given the current injury reports, could we actually be worse of now than 2018) deflating. Outcomes chaps, win a few. The mouthing of messages like "unacceptable" there will be "major change", "everything that happens will be to win games" is starting to sound like a Clarke and Daw routine. Bottom 4 - wouldn't surprise, would it. Boy I hope I have to make an abject apology in a few months.

[samoht]

Samoht is getting to me and I now reluctantly accept the dual lead weights in the saddles are recruitment which seems to be predicated on hope for the ever elusive coming seasons rather than immediate impact, and AR. Max, mighty prospect that he may be is a WIP. Bytel a WIP. Where is a good ruckman to help Lewis. Where is a durable classy mid that can do a preseason and front up without an ever hanging cloud over an ability to run and turn. As we are painfully aware we have no individual game changers; we have to have all parts working together for the whole game to be competitive. There have been a lot of seasons and a lot of money available since we last played finals to get a real gun and the club has not got one that can get on the park today. Of course we never know the thinking at the draft but to pick Max there must have been an assumption Paddy or Josh B would fire. That is a heroic assumption. Like many on here I find the retention of AR and the same old same old references to processes and off field changes without improving playing stocks (given the current injury reports, could we actually be worse of now than 2018) deflating. Outcomes chaps, win a few. The mouthing of messages like "unacceptable" there will be "major change", "everything that happens will be to win games" is starting to sound like a Clarke and Daw routine. Bottom 4 - wouldn't surprise, would it. Boy I hope I have to make an abject apology in a few months.

I thought I was the Voice in the Wilderness.
I hope I "got to you" in a good way. The truth is empowering (assuming what I've been arguing/banging on about holds water).
WIP = Work in progress, I guess? I'd say St Kilda is a WIP.

[bigred]

So now Carlisle is pretty much cooked for the year, yeah we will be bottom two.

[samoht]

Let's hope if we finish bottom 2, that our recruiters will finally open their eyes and look for a classy and healthy midfielder - and not another tall forward or yet another WIP.
Is this too much to ask?

[bigred]

Pfft.

We wont be around in five years.

[DJ Higgins]

Pfft.

We wont be around in five years.

That's the spirit.

This year was going to suck regardless as we don't have the cattle or coach. Games 2-9 is where we have a tough patch so best to have players missing then with little chance of success.
With carlisle gone for five months (worst case) he is back for last two months so about 8 games with some winnable. Thank god for brown. Let's watch his bashers change tune very quickly. Also explains why battle is moved back. Club knew Carlisle was in trouble and needed to plug a hole but shame as battle is a better forward prospect
Jack Steven missing will almost certainly lead to our midfield being shown to be terrible leading to our non recruitment of a fit mid being front and centre of most pundits thoughts meaning this year we get to finally draft a gun mid
Finally if jack is missing for first few games then we will be 1/5 0/6 and most likely 1/8 or 0/9. Nail coffin Richo

My biggest concern will be keeping unsigned players at year end.

[Linton Lodger]

Pfft.

We wont be around in five years.

That's the spirit.

This year was going to suck regardless as we don't have the cattle or coach. Games 2-9 is where we have a tough patch so best to have players missing then with little chance of success.
With carlisle gone for five months (worst case) he is back for last two months so about 8 games with some winnable. Thank god for brown. Let's watch his bashers change tune very quickly. Also explains why battle is moved back. Club knew Carlisle was in trouble and needed to plug a hole but shame as battle is a better forward prospect
Jack Steven missing will almost certainly lead to our midfield being shown to be terrible leading to our non recruitment of a fit mid being front and centre of most pundits thoughts meaning this year we get to finally draft a gun mid
Finally if jack is missing for first few games then we will be 1/5 0/6 and most likely 1/8 or 0/9. Nail coffin Richo

My biggest concern will be keeping unsigned players at year end.

What, what, what? Carlisle out for 5 months. Have I missed something? On the weekend Richo said he is a chance for R1. Has something happened since?

[Linton Lodger]

Pfft.

We wont be around in five years.

That's the spirit.

This year was going to suck regardless as we don't have the cattle or coach. Games 2-9 is where we have a tough patch so best to have players missing then with little chance of success.
With carlisle gone for five months (worst case) he is back for last two months so about 8 games with some winnable. Thank god for brown. Let's watch his bashers change tune very quickly. Also explains why battle is moved back. Club knew Carlisle was in trouble and needed to plug a hole but shame as battle is a better forward prospect
Jack Steven missing will almost certainly lead to our midfield being shown to be terrible leading to our non recruitment of a fit mid being front and centre of most pundits thoughts meaning this year we get to finally draft a gun mid
Finally if jack is missing for first few games then we will be 1/5 0/6 and most likely 1/8 or 0/9. Nail coffin Richo

My biggest concern will be keeping unsigned players at year end.

What, what, what? Carlisle out for 5 months. Have I missed something? On the weekend Richo said he is a chance for R1. Has something happened since?

Disregard, just read the other thread on possible back surgery. F**k it!

[Joffa Burns]

Yep, lock for bottom 4.
Even if we improve dramatically on last year we’d be a bottom 4 team.

I’m guessing we are 2 wins after round 10.

We haven’t lost much from last year and haven’t picked up anyone of note that will have an impact to lift us up the ladder.

Carslile & Steven issues hurt as they are our best 2 players.

Robin & Bruce back helps but blaming injuries for last season is a cop out.

WCE managed the flag with two of their top five missing the game.

[CQ SAINT]

Yep, lock for bottom 4.
Even if we improve dramatically on last year we’d be a bottom 4 team.

I’m guessing we are 2 wins after round 10.

We haven’t lost much from last year and haven’t picked up anyone of note that will have an impact to lift us up the ladder.

Carslile & Steven issues hurt as they are our best 2 players.

Robin & Bruce back helps but blaming injuries for last season is a cop out.

WCE managed the flag with two of their top five missing the game.

Robin and Bruce. Gotham needs you.

[Gershwin]

Roberton was an All-Australian in 2017. One of the best rebounding defenders in the competition. Would get a game in most AFL sides.

OK, he was in the 40-man squad - didn't make it into the final team.

[GilsAuPair]

Roberton was an All-Australian in 2017. One of the best rebounding defenders in the competition. Would get a game in most AFL sides.

OK, he was in the 40-man squad - didn't make it into the final team.

Yes. Which means he wasn't actually AA.

He and Bruce also played in the Rd 2 match.

https://m.afl.com.au/match-centre/2018/2/nmfc-v-stk

[desertsaint]

Who was our last AA player and when? I’d guess Dempster or Roo?
Never mind. Just googled. Roo in 2014.
So no one traded since 2008 (Dempster), and no one from any draft after 2002 (Goddard).
That’s a long, long time.

[kalsaint]

Why do ppl keep mentioning that Bruce and Roberton being back will be a giant help. We were dreadful from the getgo last year. Both players were playing at that time. Both are ok AFL footballers but certainly not the stars we're looking for to bring us fwd. It's the Clarkes, Coffields, Greshams, Billings, McCartin, Battle that will make us a better team if they can step up. The young guys. The older guys simply aren't going to improve us much from where we were at.

Can't see too many opposition supporters saying, 'Saints have Bruce back, that'll change things for em.'

Roberton is a feel good story but he's just a half back flanker who tries very hard. He's not overly quick, or strong, or has particularly great skills. He reads the play well and provides good support up back. Certainly not a game changer.

A lot of what you say is true but every side has their top group of players who are expected to carry the load. I would suggest our group is not better than the oppositions best player groups.

Where we must do a lot better is with the soldiers who must hold some accountability to ensure the gale plan the coaches want are executed. I would say they are essential for the pressure game we needed last year and from what Ive seen this year, the same applies. We don't have the elites of others so the entire team need improvement in their roles to complete against other clubs. On the older guys, we lack kicking skills but hey need to be the strong leaders and the communication bridgade to ensure the younger get clear from their opponent so they become damaging.

Gold kicking needs the biggest improvement from 2018 outside of the executing the coaches plan.

[rodgerfox]

Samoht is getting to me and I now reluctantly accept the dual lead weights in the saddles are recruitment which seems to be predicated on hope for the ever elusive coming seasons rather than immediate impact, and AR. Max, mighty prospect that he may be is a WIP. Bytel a WIP. Where is a good ruckman to help Lewis. Where is a durable classy mid that can do a preseason and front up without an ever hanging cloud over an ability to run and turn. As we are painfully aware we have no individual game changers; we have to have all parts working together for the whole game to be competitive. There have been a lot of seasons and a lot of money available since we last played finals to get a real gun and the club has not got one that can get on the park today. Of course we never know the thinking at the draft but to pick Max there must have been an assumption Paddy or Josh B would fire. That is a heroic assumption. Like many on here I find the retention of AR and the same old same old references to processes and off field changes without improving playing stocks (given the current injury reports, could we actually be worse of now than 2018) deflating. Outcomes chaps, win a few. The mouthing of messages like "unacceptable" there will be "major change", "everything that happens will be to win games" is starting to sound like a Clarke and Daw routine. Bottom 4 - wouldn't surprise, would it. Boy I hope I have to make an abject apology in a few months.

?

We lost Steven, and Steele, Billings and Gresham have all stepped up in the midfield.

We lost Hickey, and we have Pierce, Longer and Marshall.

We lost Carlisle, and we have Brown, Clavarino and Austinn coming through.

We lost Riewoldt, and we have McCartin and now King on the books.

The recruiting has been both short term, and long term - and also very specific to our needs and to the way we want to play.


The dogshit that samoht regurgitates adnauseum is not only lazy and predictable - it's incorrect.

Who should have we recruited, that we actually could have recruited?

What are all these failures?

The only glaring one is Bontempelli.

<1 DAY BAN: Commenting on a poster>

[Scollop]

See you next Tuesday

Or maybe tomorrow if you only get a 1 day ban

[spert]

I'm saying 10 wins max.

[samoht]

The dogshit that samoht regurgitates adnauseum is not only lazy and predictable - it's incorrect.

The popular horsesh1t being peddled on here - reducing everything down so as to blame the coach at every turn - is what's lazy and predictable.
That logic (or lack of) would have got Buckley and Hardwick sacked.

<1 DAY BAN for negatively commenting on a group of posters>

[DJ Higgins]

The dogshit that samoht regurgitates adnauseum is not only lazy and predictable - it's incorrect.

The popular horsesh1t being peddled on here - reducing everything down so as to blame the coach at every turn - is what's lazy and predictable.
That logic (or lack of) would have got Buckley and Hardwick sacked.

I think a lot of us don't blame Richo for everything just what he can control. IE the poor goal kicking isn't on him that is on the forwards coach and was addressed with Ben Dickson ( I think). Poor ruck is due to our rucks not performing or living up to potential. That is not due to him personally that's on the ruck coach
However he was meant to be a development coach and our skills were the worst last year that I can remember for a long time. Also it is his game plan that isn't working and not adapting to the oppositions game plan is his fault. Players are not being played in their correct positions nor to their strengths. Look at Lonie, don't play him as a defensive forward he can't tackle, let him have more shots at goal rather than always look for an open man, same with Sinclair.
Also he is part of the drafting team so draft a f@#king outside midfielder who is quick. Not saying that king was a mistake just saying will the remaining drafts picks we could have got an outside midfielder. Imagine no Jack Steven in the midfield, well unfortunately we may not have to and we will get run around with out him there.
Finally he picks the team each week, be honest how many times last year did you say how the f#$k did so and so get a game. He appeared to be playing favourites not the best players available. Who ever extended him to 2020 should be shot. If he performs this year then I wouldn't mind an extension but if we go 1 win from 9 games ...

[samoht]

I blame Richo too for what he's in control of, that he's not getting right - what exactly that is varies widely (too widely for mine), and personal bias comes into it , while I'm trying to be objective.
It's a lot more complicated than meets the eye. There are many factors at play - Steele credited Richo for his rapid development and rise last year. - he didn't name any midfield development coaches - he mentioned and credited Richo only.
Others might want to overlook this detail - but I'm not going to.

Carlisle is an important cog in our team - he's much more influential and important to us than he was at Essendon (to Essendon). What's stopping other players from developing too and playing to their potential - and joining Membrey, Steele, Ross, Roberton, Carlisle etc - is it Richo?
It can't only be him (we can't blame Richo for everything - or nigh on everything)
I'm providing the counter (and unpopular) argument - we should look at all the underlying reasons for where we're at - and we need to leave our biases aside.
That's the only way we will get to the truth - or move closer to it.

[DJ Higgins]

The dogshit that samoht regurgitates adnauseum is not only lazy and predictable - it's incorrect.

The popular horsesh1t being peddled on here - reducing everything down so as to blame the coach at every turn - is what's lazy and predictable.
That logic (or lack of) would have got Buckley and Hardwick sacked.

Double post. Sorry

[bigred]

The thread title here is "lock for bottom 4"?

I posted hastily earlier.

Losing Carlisle is a big, big loss. We will lose games on the back of it. No doubt about it.

Clavarino is out for two months also. If he wasn't, we would have been able to just throw him to the wolves straight up.

We will be skinny down back for most of the year.

I still think we are better than bottom four.

IF we put in a good showing against the Dogs this week then all bets are off. We are so much better than 2018.

[GilsAuPair]

The dogshit that samoht regurgitates adnauseum is not only lazy and predictable - it's incorrect.

The popular horsesh1t being peddled on here - reducing everything down so as to blame the coach at every turn - is what's lazy and predictable.
That logic (or lack of) would have got Buckley and Hardwick sacked.

Wins after first 100 games as AFL coach:

Buckley - 55
Hardwick - 45
Richo - 34