Richo review

[rodgerfox]

... posted on forums... hinted at in the media, implied when players went to other clubs for less money, when journos turned up to Moorabbin seemingly to cover the sacking.

This goes to the very heart of one of the issues humans are struggling with atm.

Free thinking is being dominated by no fact and alternate fact.

To be fair though, football clubs like and bulls*** every second word. So it's pretty natural for people to join their own dots with the information they have.

[fugazi]

Having an ego in-check as a leader is a massive strength when it comes to communication, leadership and relationship building. Being humble enough to accept feedback doesn't happen if you your ego isn't in check. Did the genesis of the article linked in the OP somehow not strike a chord with you? What sort of evidence are you looking for? I've heard Richo survived because his relationship with most people at the club is good including most players. He's a relationship type leader. Are you a manager at any level? Do you ask for feedback?

I've heard that he's a good bloke. And he clearly has a good relationship with the CEO and the ex-President.
But I haven't heard any of the players rave about him. In fact what stood out most in that article is that it seems the players think he's coached poorly.

Even ex-players don't seem to go out of their way to spruik his abilities.

I'm not saying that the players hate him, I just haven't really heard anything of note come out of the club that really explains why he's still got the job.


You don't get a coaching gig because you're a good bloke and don't have an ego. There's millions of people out there with those traits.
Those traits will often enhance the actual core skills that required to be a good football coach. But they in themselves are not the core skills.

Sorry RF some of what you say there is completely made up. Can you quote something from that article that backs up your claim the players think he coached poorly. Providing feedback on specific aspects of coaching in the context of players being asked to provide feedback is all that was at play. I didn't read anywhere in that article the phrase "poor coaching".

He had 9 players fill out feedback forms, only Geary had something forthright to say.
I wonder what the feedback would have been if it was anonymous....these guys are giving feedback to the bloke who is still coaching them next season.

I understand the optimism, and think the new coaches are great inclusions, but I would have much preferred to start this year with Ratten as senior coach. Richo lost the fans as much as a coach could, and from my observations he seemed to have lost the players also.

We will see after 6 rounds I guess.

[Cairnsman]

Having an ego in-check as a leader is a massive strength when it comes to communication, leadership and relationship building. Being humble enough to accept feedback doesn't happen if you your ego isn't in check. Did the genesis of the article linked in the OP somehow not strike a chord with you? What sort of evidence are you looking for? I've heard Richo survived because his relationship with most people at the club is good including most players. He's a relationship type leader. Are you a manager at any level? Do you ask for feedback?

I've heard that he's a good bloke. And he clearly has a good relationship with the CEO and the ex-President.
But I haven't heard any of the players rave about him. In fact what stood out most in that article is that it seems the players think he's coached poorly.

Even ex-players don't seem to go out of their way to spruik his abilities.

I'm not saying that the players hate him, I just haven't really heard anything of note come out of the club that really explains why he's still got the job.


You don't get a coaching gig because you're a good bloke and don't have an ego. There's millions of people out there with those traits.
Those traits will often enhance the actual core skills that required to be a good football coach. But they in themselves are not the core skills.

Sorry RF some of what you say there is completely made up. Can you quote something from that article that backs up your claim the players think he coached poorly. Providing feedback on specific aspects of coaching in the context of players being asked to provide feedback is all that was at play. I didn't read anywhere in that article the phrase "poor coaching".

He had 9 players fill out feedback forms, only Geary had something forthright to say.
I wonder what the feedback would have been if it was anonymous....these guys are giving feedback to the bloke who is still coaching them next season.

I understand the optimism, and think the new coaches are great inclusions, but I would have much preferred to start this year with Ratten as senior coach. Richo lost the fans as much as a coach could, and from my observations he seemed to have lost the players also.

We will see after 6 rounds I guess.

Fascinating season ahead. Round 6 is when it all is revealed. Can't wait.

[bigcarl]

Q: Richo's traits? Ans: incredibly lucky; able to quickly ingratiate himself to the CEO; never loses his composure in the media spotlight; until recently, poor self awareness; learnt the basics of assistant level coaching well, albeit by rote, together with a few phrases from successful coaches. Mentally strong and determined. Likeable on a personal level.

And speaks out the side of his mouth because he saw a good coach do it once, etc, etc.

Look I hope he turns it around ... he seems a great fella ... but I’m not counting on it.

Plaudits to Geary for speaking his mind. That showed leadership. Maybe he and Ratten can hijack the ship and leave Richo in there as some sort of figurehead.

[tedtheodorelogan2018]

Round 6? Please explain...

[skeptic]

... posted on forums... hinted at in the media, implied when players went to other clubs for less money, when journos turned up to Moorabbin seemingly to cover the sacking.

This goes to the very heart of one of the issues humans are struggling with atm.

Free thinking is being dominated by no fact and alternate fact.

The image is still the image however and externally he has a poor one and the club haven’t been able to dispel it as effectively one would like.

Go over to BF now and the polls have Richo as most likely to be first coach sacked in 2019 and Saints in finish in the bottom 4.

We got into this part of the discussion because Rodgerfox was asking if anyone knows what Richo’s strengths are. An obvious answer doesn’t come to mind... and that is on the club’s spin.

I don’t think you can argue that it was handled very well all the way through. The unrest has been there across the board

But yes they’re doing better now

[Yorkeys]

So the CEO and Board would have a risk management scenario in place, surely. The consequences of another poor season following 2018 is, I imagine, classified as a major financial, reputational and playing stocks set of risks. The probability of AR being able to find the wherewithal to turn around the last season and a bit's results is what? say 50%, at best. There are also unknown x factors, like injuries, Hannebery's impact, Josh B, Robbo and Paddy's post injury form and others we can't yet know. If we are going poorly by the end of the mythical round 6 what do they do. Take comfort in a low draft pick, suddenly proclaim we are going all out for youth, pick a young coach from left field or plough on regardless or what. There probably has been some kind of sounding out of Lenny H and possibly Robert H about their coaching futures. I feel disappointed (is that the emotion, perhaps just miserably deflated) that the club's focus seems on Richo. How to improve him and then expect that will translate into better individual and team performances. That seems a little too indirect to me so there has to be a solid contingency plan available (yes, Matt?). Does the mission of the Football Department have as it core to win games or is it improve Richo, or possibly don't contribute to the club's losses by cutting the coach loose. It could be argued that once the CEO determined AR was there until the end of 2019 or even into 2019 the mission became Richo's PD. I wonder what Harvard Business School might make of that. For what it is worth (0) I bet if we got to see the CEO's feedback in the envelope it would be full of white bread platitudes hinting it was the players that just didn't get it.

[takeaway]

... posted on forums... hinted at in the media, implied when players went to other clubs for less money, when journos turned up to Moorabbin seemingly to cover the sacking.

This goes to the very heart of one of the issues humans are struggling with atm.

Free thinking is being dominated by no fact and alternate fact.

To be fair though, football clubs like and bulls*** every second word. So it's pretty natural for people to join their own dots with the information they have.

Yes, the problem is joining the correct dots, ie the factual ones, rather than the fabricated or over hyped media facts, which is more often the case nowadays, as I believe Cairnsman has alluded to.

I think it is quite simple, 2018 was a bad year, after 2016 and most of 2017 were tracking OK, so the coach, as is always the case, is under pressure. It appears the club has responded well, so the outcome this year will be interesting.
I don't see the point in over analysing what the media has already over analysed, often based on scanty or no facts. Bring on round 6.

[shrodes]

https://www.sen.com.au/news/2019/02/17/ ... evelation/

https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/essend ... 4557390bbc

Tim Watson and Garry Lyon doing some wondering about this whole thing.

[spert]

Not sure how long an executive or senior manager in Basset's Seek organisation would last if they had the sub standard output that Richo has had for 5 years- there would be no propping up with other staff to try and get results..you would be long gone! No doubt Richo is only still there while the club sees out his contract.

every time i read someone say something like 5 years of Richo failure, i think its inaccurate. Richo took over a wooden spooner and went 18th, 14th then 9th, missing finals only on %. At that point i reckon anyone with a balanced view would think the trajectory was about right and he was going ok in the W/L department.
In 2017 at round 16, we were in the 8 and had just given Richmond some sort of hiding. For some reason the wheels fell off at that point with the last part of the season and the next a trainwreck. We ended up missing finals by a game and % but i think it was a subpar result. 2018 was a trainwreck.
So on balance i think its more 1.5 years than 5 that have been subpar.

Too much cooda-been this or that with some Sainters I'm afraid.

[takeaway]

https://www.sen.com.au/news/2019/02/17/ ... evelation/

https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/essend ... 4557390bbc

Tim Watson and Garry Lyon doing some wondering about this whole thing.

There you have it again. Women's Day media fluff.

[fugazi]

Round 6? Please explain...

Its been mentioned a few times that it will be a bit of a litmus test for Richo.

If by round 6 we are 2 and 4, but playing good strong competitive footy we probably forge ahead.
If we are 1 and 5, or God forbid 0 and 6, and playing the confused brand we were last year....Richo, surely, could not survive. Regardless of what support the President is talking up in February....all that goes out the window come April and the tone for the year has been set....remember it only took until round 2 last year before most could sense the wheels falling off....by round 6 we were deep in recriminations.

[Bernard Shakey]

The OP article has a link to another article "Josh Kelly will he stay. Will he go".
That article is behind the HS paywall. Anyone know what it said? I'd love to have him next year!

[DJ Higgins]

With the season only a month away it wont be long until we have out answer to how the off season changes went and what impact they have. If we do well the Richo haters are going to say its due to Ratten and if we suck the rose coloured glasses brigade will make all sorts of excuses or Richo. Can't win.

Here is what I want to see.
1. Players playing to their strengths and in their natural positions. i.e. Sinclair is an attacking small forward, not a defensive one so play him as such. Yes he still has to tackle but he should focus more on being in space for a pass rather than being close to his defender in case they get the ball. Remember when he did that as was classed as elite a few season ago. Lonie prolific ball winner at Sandy while playing to his strengths then promoted as plays in a different role which is not to his strengths so he stinks the place up. Started playing his own way at season end and he looked so much better. Still not a fan by the way
2. A plan B that should really be plan A. Long bombs into 50. F@#king stop it. Stop it now. It doesn't work when you don't have a powerhouse full forward which we don't. Stop playing on instantly all the time. Yes there are times when you should but not all the time. How many easy turn overs were there last year. Teams stopped going for the guy with the ball and went to the support player and we got pinned a lot
3. Players reacting on the field not at quarter time. Welcome Dan Hanneberry your voice, experience and knowledge will be valuable even if your body wont be. Watch the difference a general makes to the team but he can't do it alone
4. Improved skills. This is so basic it hurts. Hand ball in front of running players. Kick to where a player will be etc. Sheppard!!! Don't just run next to a player and do nothing, get in the way. School boy stuff
5. A goal percentage that is positive. Enough said there
6. Pies and drinks at reasonable prices. OK not all things on this list are realistic.
7. Play the best players for that week and not favourites. If you suck multiple weeks in a row then back to Sandy you go, even Geary (won't happen of course). That means playing guys like Brown when the opposition have monsters, not when they have small fast forwards. i.e. play to the opposition
8. Play young players when they are ready. I appreciate that younger players need games to get better. e.g. Coffield but only play them when it will benefit them. Remember when we played Long and he really wasn't good so we kept him down in for Sandy for ages until he was ready. Then when he played for Saints again he looked so much better. Injuries permitting he and Kent are my 2 players to watch this year.
10. Finally if something isn't working try something different. I am not sold on Paddy yet so if he is still underwhelming after 3-5 rounds try something new. Play him for a quarter in defence at Sandy or change how he trains and skills exercises. Try something different This goes for all players by the way. If you do nothing, nothing will change.

[tedtheodorelogan2018]

Looks like Richo is seeing out the year given all the talk from Bassett and Lethlean.

The below aptly applies to Alan:
“No man ever steps in the same river twice, for it’s not the same river and he’s not the same man.”
Heraclitus (circa 535-475 BCE)

[Saintmatt]

Rd 19 against GWS?
I don't recall that game at all.
Have to go back and check the stats.

That was the best footy we played all year.

Disagree. The best footy we played all year was the first 3.5 quarters of the Melbourne win @ the 'G. That was complete before we stopped dead.

[sunsaint]

... posted on forums... hinted at in the media, implied when players went to other clubs for less money, when journos turned up to Moorabbin seemingly to cover the sacking.

This goes to the very heart of one of the issues humans are struggling with atm.

Free thinking is being dominated by no fact and alternate fact.

ok Im intrigued - if you think the points raised are just made up then clearly i think it is you that's living in the alternative fact reality
Purely on the issue raised above - in 5 years - a salary cap war chest Buddy Franklin couldnt leap over - on the backs of '16-17 seasons - remind me again who we snagged ?
That one issue alone has caused the club to pay overs for under performing players and extend contracts early - not an ideal situation given where we are currently on the ladder

I get you want to fly the flag - I get its your right to ignore whats being presented & believe it all media lie and BS
but do you give any credence to Roo reporting there are problems mid way through last year???

[Cairnsman]

... posted on forums... hinted at in the media, implied when players went to other clubs for less money, when journos turned up to Moorabbin seemingly to cover the sacking.

This goes to the very heart of one of the issues humans are struggling with atm.

Free thinking is being dominated by no fact and alternate fact.

The image is still the image however and externally he has a poor one and the club haven’t been able to dispel it as effectively one would like.

Go over to BF now and the polls have Richo as most likely to be first coach sacked in 2019 and Saints in finish in the bottom 4.

We got into this part of the discussion because Rodgerfox was asking if anyone knows what Richo’s strengths are. An obvious answer doesn’t come to mind... and that is on the club’s spin.

I don’t think you can argue that it was handled very well all the way through. The unrest has been there across the board

But yes they’re doing better now

But an image that is still based on no facts, just because things weren't handled correctly doesn't mean Richo doesn't have any strengths as a coach.

Everyone knows you and Rodgerfox are haters of Alan so just because you ask a question regarding his strengths and can't answer your own question still just further highlights your bias. I've asked you before if you can identify any of his strengths and you could. Why don't you dig out the post and show it to Rodgerfox.

Are you seriously referring to BF for strength of argument. That would be like the good folk over at BF referring to SS for strength of argument, it's still an argument or point made completely without fact.

[Moods]

Rd 19 against GWS?
I don't recall that game at all.
Have to go back and check the stats.

That was the best footy we played all year.

Disagree. The best footy we played all year was the first 3.5 quarters of the Melbourne win @ the 'G. That was complete before we stopped dead.

Unfortunately our best footy is always punctuated with 'and then we stopped dead.' It's impossible to play great footy week in week out, but what we have to do is stop the bleeding once the other team get a run on. Generally it's 15 minutes and it's game over after being half competitive.

[skeptic]

... posted on forums... hinted at in the media, implied when players went to other clubs for less money, when journos turned up to Moorabbin seemingly to cover the sacking.

This goes to the very heart of one of the issues humans are struggling with atm.

Free thinking is being dominated by no fact and alternate fact.

The image is still the image however and externally he has a poor one and the club haven’t been able to dispel it as effectively one would like.

Go over to BF now and the polls have Richo as most likely to be first coach sacked in 2019 and Saints in finish in the bottom 4.

We got into this part of the discussion because Rodgerfox was asking if anyone knows what Richo’s strengths are. An obvious answer doesn’t come to mind... and that is on the club’s spin.

I don’t think you can argue that it was handled very well all the way through. The unrest has been there across the board

But yes they’re doing better now

But an image that is still based on no facts, just because things weren't handled correctly doesn't mean Richo doesn't have any strengths as a coach.

Everyone knows you and Rodgerfox are haters of Alan so just because you ask a question regarding his strengths and can't answer your own question still just further highlights your bias. I've asked you before if you can identify any of his strengths and you could. Why don't you dig out the post and show it to Rodgerfox.

Are you seriously referring to BF for strength of argument. That would be like the good folk over at BF referring to SS for strength of argument, it's still an argument or point made completely without fact.

I don’t think we’re arguing the same thing. I’m not suggesting the above as a knock on Richo or an indication that he is bad.

Rather it’s an indication that the club didn’t do as good a job managing the period of criticism as they could have.
An example of this is when Riewoldt gave the weakest most unconvincing endorsement of a coach I’ve ever heard... or when a club official (can’t remember which) simply wouldn’t commit to an answer when asked if AR would see out the season

This critique is not of Richo and I feel as though it’s ur own gun ho’ness to defend Richo that at times sees you interpret some comments as attacks when they’re not intended to be.

Look at a club like Freo...
A big portion of the supporter base has no love for RL. I would say many of their fans are as if not more cynical as the cynics here...
But the turmoil hasn’t been the same.

I never thought RL was a realistic chance of being sacked.

[rodgerfox]

But an image that is still based on no facts, just because things weren't handled correctly doesn't mean Richo doesn't have any strengths as a coach.

What are his strengths?

Clearly gathering feedback.isn't one of them. Given he had no idea what the Captain's opinion on him was until he opened the Dear John letter in America - he clearly isn't very self aware either.

The most concerning thing is his reaction to it to be honest. It sounds like he tries too hard to make people like him. His subsequent glorifying of Geary as a reaction to some criticism comes across as a desperate schoolboy trying to make friends.

Riewoldt bagging him for not being hard enough really rings true.

[To the top]

Interesting

Back in the day, so a very long time ago, the young Captain-Coach had us focussing on our strengths because that is why we were playing at the level we were - and to also work on deficiencies

So probably 70/30 in favour of further honing the skills we excelled at - and not everyone excelled at the same skill set so there was a balance across the List

Now you read this appraisal of Richardson!

[Cairnsman]

... posted on forums... hinted at in the media, implied when players went to other clubs for less money, when journos turned up to Moorabbin seemingly to cover the sacking.

This goes to the very heart of one of the issues humans are struggling with atm.

Free thinking is being dominated by no fact and alternate fact.

The image is still the image however and externally he has a poor one and the club haven’t been able to dispel it as effectively one would like.

Go over to BF now and the polls have Richo as most likely to be first coach sacked in 2019 and Saints in finish in the bottom 4.

We got into this part of the discussion because Rodgerfox was asking if anyone knows what Richo’s strengths are. An obvious answer doesn’t come to mind... and that is on the club’s spin.

I don’t think you can argue that it was handled very well all the way through. The unrest has been there across the board

But yes they’re doing better now

But an image that is still based on no facts, just because things weren't handled correctly doesn't mean Richo doesn't have any strengths as a coach.

Everyone knows you and Rodgerfox are haters of Alan so just because you ask a question regarding his strengths and can't answer your own question still just further highlights your bias. I've asked you before if you can identify any of his strengths and you could. Why don't you dig out the post and show it to Rodgerfox.

Are you seriously referring to BF for strength of argument. That would be like the good folk over at BF referring to SS for strength of argument, it's still an argument or point made completely without fact.

I don’t think we’re arguing the same thing. I’m not suggesting the above as a knock on Richo or an indication that he is bad.

Rather it’s an indication that the club didn’t do as good a job managing the period of criticism as they could have.
An example of this is when Riewoldt gave the weakest most unconvincing endorsement of a coach I’ve ever heard... or when a club official (can’t remember which) simply wouldn’t commit to an answer when asked if AR would see out the season

This critique is not of Richo and I feel as though it’s ur own gun ho’ness to defend Richo that at times sees you interpret some comments as attacks when they’re not intended to be.

Look at a club like Freo...
A big portion of the supporter base has no love for RL. I would say many of their fans are as if not more cynical as the cynics here...
But the turmoil hasn’t been the same.

I never thought RL was a realistic chance of being sacked.

I'm defending the club, not Alan, with all things considered I thought it was the right thing to do by letting Alan go around again in 2019. Blind Freddy could see there were other issues at play for our poor results in 2018 and sacking Alan just would have put the club into a nose dive and papered over the cracks. For once in a long time I think the club has shown real professionalism and maturity in how it responded to the season that was 2018.

I will be the first to say he has to go if we don't improve significantly this season. But if he does have to go this season then I think the club is in a much stronger position to change coaches than it was last year. It would have been a circus had we sacked Alan last year whereas most pundits in the industry will praise our approach in giving the coach every opportunity to prove himself while simultaneously strengthening the organisation and subsequently preparing a succession plan to change coaches as seamlessly as possible if required in 2019.

[Cairnsman]

But an image that is still based on no facts, just because things weren't handled correctly doesn't mean Richo doesn't have any strengths as a coach.

What are his strengths?

Clearly gathering feedback.isn't one of them. Given he had no idea what the Captain's opinion on him was until he opened the Dear John letter in America - he clearly isn't very self aware either.

The most concerning thing is his reaction to it to be honest. It sounds like he tries too hard to make people like him. His subsequent glorifying of Geary as a reaction to some criticism comes across as a desperate schoolboy trying to make friends.

Riewoldt bagging him for not being hard enough really rings true.

I tell you what, I'll play the same game I played with Skeppers a while back, you go first. If you respond with nothing then the conversation is over, but if you can demonstrate objectivity by naming some strengths then I will have a go too.

To debate an issue objectively you have to try to understand the other persons point of view better than they do...

[rodgerfox]

I'm defending the club, not Alan, with all things considered I thought it was the right thing to do by letting Alan go around again in 2019. Blind Freddy could see there were other issues at play for our poor results in 2018 and sacking Alan just would have put the club into a nose dive and papered over the cracks. For once in a long time I think the club has shown real professionalism and maturity in how it responded to the season that was 2018.

I will be the first to say he has to go if we don't improve significantly this season. But if he does have to go this season then I think the club is in a much stronger position to change coaches than it was last year. It would have been a circus had we sacked Alan last year whereas most pundits in the industry will praise our approach in giving the coach every opportunity to prove himself while simultaneously strengthening the organisation and subsequently preparing a succession plan to change coaches as seamlessly as possible if required in 2019.

Definitely some truth to that.