New kick-in rule.

[Gershwin]

"At kick-ins, a player will no longer need to kick to himself to play on from the goalsquare. Following a behind, the man on the mark will be brought out to 10m from the top of the goalsquare, rather than the existing five metres."

I think this new rule will have a significant effect on the game. The options from the kick-in have increased considerably. With the man on the mark standing 5 metres further back it is far easier for the player kicking-in to play on and then use team-mates and handball to run the ball out of defence. Much harder for the team defending to set up their defence and greater likelihood for coast to coast scoring.

By taking maximum advantage of this rule change through intense pre-season analysis/planning/practice a team could steal the march on other teams. On the other hand by not preparing sufficiently a team could get exploited.

I sincerely hope that we will use this opportunity to help us become a force this year.

[WellardSaint]

We seem to kick-in very short to a pocket, more than other teams. Whether it's a team rule to help going via the wings, or a lack of confidence in going up the guts, who knows.
Hopefully this means we use Shane Savage a lot more, he'll put the ball near CHF.
I think this new rule will hurt us a lot, as we've been very inaccurate in front of goal, and I saw a stat somewhere that we're the most vulnerable team in conceding goals after we've gotten a point- other teams go coast to coast against us easily.

For a very long time, the rule has worked ok, I don't see the need for change.
I'd prefer a rule like soccer, where last touch over the boundary gives away a free.
That would reduce play milling around near the boundary, with half the team trying to get it over, and certainly speed up play.

[shanegrambeau]

We were discussing Geary being given open space by the opposition to collect kick ins from behinds in a pocket. Perhaps that dynamic will be changed and JG might do something different. Does the rule allow -say for example - a back pocket - to swing in behind the kick out player and collect via the backdoor so to speak? Seems like game will speed up.

[Cairnsman]

"At kick-ins, a player will no longer need to kick to himself to play on from the goalsquare. Following a behind, the man on the mark will be brought out to 10m from the top of the goalsquare, rather than the existing five metres."

I think this new rule will have a significant effect on the game. The options from the kick-in have increased considerably. With the man on the mark standing 5 metres further back it is far easier for the player kicking-in to play on and then use team-mates and handball to run the ball out of defence. Much harder for the team defending to set up their defence and greater likelihood for coast to coast scoring.

By taking maximum advantage of this rule change through intense pre-season analysis/planning/practice a team could steal the march on other teams. On the other hand by not preparing sufficiently a team could get exploited.

I sincerely hope that we will use this opportunity to help us become a force this year.

Didn't we participate in the R&D with the AFL?

[The_Dud]

A million times better than that ridiculous long goalsquare they were considering...

[shrodes]

Didn't we participate in the R&D with the AFL?

I could be wrong but I think that was just the 6-6-6 rule.

[sunsaint]

Didn't we participate in the R&D with the AFL?

I could be wrong but I think that was just the 6-6-6 rule.

I think you could be right

[Viscount Jeremiah]

We seem to kick-in very short to a pocket, more than other teams. Whether it's a team rule to help going via the wings, or a lack of confidence in going up the guts, who knows.
Hopefully this means we use Shane Savage a lot more, he'll put the ball near CHF.
I think this new rule will hurt us a lot, as we've been very inaccurate in front of goal, and I saw a stat somewhere that we're the most vulnerable team in conceding goals after we've gotten a point- other teams go coast to coast against us easily.

For a very long time, the rule has worked ok, I don't see the need for change.
I'd prefer a rule like soccer, where last touch over the boundary gives away a free.
That would reduce play milling around near the boundary, with half the team trying to get it over, and certainly speed up play.

I think we should expect change this year. A new coaching group bringing new ideas and the fact even Richo know's the gameplan needs to change.

If we are still moving the ball out of the d50 the same way as last year I will be shocked.

[David-Lee]

We seem to kick-in very short to a pocket, more than other teams. Whether it's a team rule to help going via the wings, or a lack of confidence in going up the guts, who knows.
Hopefully this means we use Shane Savage a lot more, he'll put the ball near CHF.
I think this new rule will hurt us a lot, as we've been very inaccurate in front of goal, and I saw a stat somewhere that we're the most vulnerable team in conceding goals after we've gotten a point- other teams go coast to coast against us easily.

For a very long time, the rule has worked ok, I don't see the need for change.
I'd prefer a rule like soccer, where last touch over the boundary gives away a free.
That would reduce play milling around near the boundary, with half the team trying to get it over, and certainly speed up play.

I agree Savage should kick more, I found Jack Stevens ( who has kicked in more than 2000 times - the most of any active Saint) to have really started the kick to the wing era. Going back a ways, Harvs and Burkey used to bang it right up the middle.
Banger of course holds the kick in record and why not?

[saintspremiers]

Looking forward to Parker kicking out after a behind.

He will run like Forrrest Gump given half a chance

[BackFromUSA]

Hind?
Webster?

[Yorkeys]

We might do worse than just kicking up the guts as far as possible where Billy would lurk and just take our chances with the chaos ball that results. The tired old set piece of last year was ineffective so there has to be a change up and a few scenarios used to at least try to confuse the opposition. Hopefully it doesn't confuse our guys as well.

[Viscount Jeremiah]

We might do worse than just kicking up the guts as far as possible where Billy would lurk and just take our chances with the chaos ball that results. The tired old set piece of last year was ineffective so there has to be a change up and a few scenarios used to at least try to confuse the opposition. Hopefully it doesn't confuse our guys as well.

Surely you don't think its a good idea to kick the ball anywhere near Longer? He is consistently out marked by midfielders let alone other ruckman

[WellardSaint]

We might do worse than just kicking up the guts as far as possible where Billy would lurk and just take our chances with the chaos ball that results. The tired old set piece of last year was ineffective so there has to be a change up and a few scenarios used to at least try to confuse the opposition. Hopefully it doesn't confuse our guys as well.

Surely you don't think its a good idea to kick the ball anywhere near Longer? He is consistently out marked by midfielders let alone other ruckman

afltables website: 65 games, 109 marks. Avg 1.6 marks.
For a 202 cm oak tree, his long reach counts for nought.

[takeaway]

We might do worse than just kicking up the guts as far as possible where Billy would lurk and just take our chances with the chaos ball that results. The tired old set piece of last year was ineffective so there has to be a change up and a few scenarios used to at least try to confuse the opposition. Hopefully it doesn't confuse our guys as well.

Surely you don't think its a good idea to kick the ball anywhere near Longer? He is consistently out marked by midfielders let alone other ruckman

afltables website: 65 games, 109 marks. Avg 1.6 marks.
For a 202 cm oak tree, his long reach counts for nought.

I agree Billy needs to improve his marking, as an under ager he took a lot more.

However, if you just want to use stats - Nic Nat, 161 games, 306 marks, Avg 1.9 marks, Mumford 2017 (21 games) Avg 1.6 marks. Footywire has Longer at 1.7 (rounds up). Even the better marks, ie Gawn, Grundy, average 3.5-4. Most are between 2 & 3 avg. So, not that I would target Billy in the kick outs, if he can grab one or two more marks per game, he will be with the majority in marks stats. His hit outs compare well with virtually any other ruck. Still stats are only part of the story.

[Viscount Jeremiah]

We might do worse than just kicking up the guts as far as possible where Billy would lurk and just take our chances with the chaos ball that results. The tired old set piece of last year was ineffective so there has to be a change up and a few scenarios used to at least try to confuse the opposition. Hopefully it doesn't confuse our guys as well.

Surely you don't think its a good idea to kick the ball anywhere near Longer? He is consistently out marked by midfielders let alone other ruckman

afltables website: 65 games, 109 marks. Avg 1.6 marks.
For a 202 cm oak tree, his long reach counts for nought.

I agree Billy needs to improve his marking, as an under ager he took a lot more.

However, if you just want to use stats - Nic Nat, 161 games, 306 marks, Avg 1.9 marks, Mumford 2017 (21 games) Avg 1.6 marks. Footywire has Longer at 1.7 (rounds up). Even the better marks, ie Gawn, Grundy, average 3.5-4. Most are between 2 & 3 avg. So, not that I would target Billy in the kick outs, if he can grab one or two more marks per game, he will be with the majority in marks stats. His hit outs compare well with virtually any other ruck. Still stats are only part of the story.

Yes but Gawn averages 2 contested marks per game which is elite, Grundy 1 and Nic Nat 1.2

So a very high % of the marks they take are contested. They provide a good contest in the air and rarely get out marked.

Billy Longer averages 0.5 per game and in fact didn't even take one contested mark in 2018. Interestingly also according to Pro-Stats on AFL website it looks like Longer has never taken a mark on the lead in his whole career (?)

[takeaway]

We might do worse than just kicking up the guts as far as possible where Billy would lurk and just take our chances with the chaos ball that results. The tired old set piece of last year was ineffective so there has to be a change up and a few scenarios used to at least try to confuse the opposition. Hopefully it doesn't confuse our guys as well.

Surely you don't think its a good idea to kick the ball anywhere near Longer? He is consistently out marked by midfielders let alone other ruckman

afltables website: 65 games, 109 marks. Avg 1.6 marks.
For a 202 cm oak tree, his long reach counts for nought.

I agree Billy needs to improve his marking, as an under ager he took a lot more.

However, if you just want to use stats - Nic Nat, 161 games, 306 marks, Avg 1.9 marks, Mumford 2017 (21 games) Avg 1.6 marks. Footywire has Longer at 1.7 (rounds up). Even the better marks, ie Gawn, Grundy, average 3.5-4. Most are between 2 & 3 avg. So, not that I would target Billy in the kick outs, if he can grab one or two more marks per game, he will be with the majority in marks stats. His hit outs compare well with virtually any other ruck. Still stats are only part of the story.

Yes but Gawn averages 2 contested marks per game which is elite, Grundy 1 and Nic Nat 1.2

So a very high % of the marks they take are contested. They provide a good contest in the air and rarely get out marked.

Billy Longer averages 0.5 per game and in fact didn't even take one contested mark in 2018. Interestingly also according to Pro-Stats on AFL website it looks like Longer has never taken a mark on the lead in his whole career (?)

2018? Bit hard to take a mark when you're not on the ground for virtually the whole year. As I said, I wouldn't target Billy on the kick out, but in any marking contests I would expect him to at least spoil the other ruckman on the majority of occasions. He hasn't done that enough in recent years, injuries haven't helped, and he would need to improve this year or he may not get a renewed contract. I think he can improve. I quoted the stats really to show in the modern game ruckmen don't tend to average a lot of marks - they mainly negate each other. Gawn, the best mark, avge 4 marks per game? Not much. Gary Dempsey? over 9 per game - the game has changed.

[stonecold]

We might do worse than just kicking up the guts as far as possible where Billy would lurk and just take our chances with the chaos ball that results. The tired old set piece of last year was ineffective so there has to be a change up and a few scenarios used to at least try to confuse the opposition. Hopefully it doesn't confuse our guys as well.

Surely you don't think its a good idea to kick the ball anywhere near Longer? He is consistently out marked by midfielders let alone other ruckman

afltables website: 65 games, 109 marks. Avg 1.6 marks.
For a 202 cm oak tree, his long reach counts for nought.

I agree Billy needs to improve his marking, as an under ager he took a lot more.

However, if you just want to use stats - Nic Nat, 161 games, 306 marks, Avg 1.9 marks, Mumford 2017 (21 games) Avg 1.6 marks. Footywire has Longer at 1.7 (rounds up). Even the better marks, ie Gawn, Grundy, average 3.5-4. Most are between 2 & 3 avg. So, not that I would target Billy in the kick outs, if he can grab one or two more marks per game, he will be with the majority in marks stats. His hit outs compare well with virtually any other ruck. Still stats are only part of the story.

Yes but Gawn averages 2 contested marks per game which is elite, Grundy 1 and Nic Nat 1.2

So a very high % of the marks they take are contested. They provide a good contest in the air and rarely get out marked.

Billy Longer averages 0.5 per game and in fact didn't even take one contested mark in 2018. Interestingly also according to Pro-Stats on AFL website it looks like Longer has never taken a mark on the lead in his whole career (?)

2018? Bit hard to take a mark when you're not on the ground for virtually the whole year. As I said, I wouldn't target Billy on the kick out, but in any marking contests I would expect him to at least spoil the other ruckman on the majority of occasions. He hasn't done that enough in recent years, injuries haven't helped, and he would need to improve this year or he may not get a renewed contract. I think he can improve. I quoted the stats really to show in the modern game ruckmen don't tend to average a lot of marks - they mainly negate each other. Gawn, the best mark, avge 4 marks per game? Not much. Gary Dempsey? over 9 per game - the game has changed.

Don't feed the animals mate!!!!!

At the end of the day, Billy has a contract and Hickey was traded out, enough said!!!!!

[stonecold]

We might do worse than just kicking up the guts as far as possible where Billy would lurk and just take our chances with the chaos ball that results. The tired old set piece of last year was ineffective so there has to be a change up and a few scenarios used to at least try to confuse the opposition. Hopefully it doesn't confuse our guys as well.

Surely you don't think its a good idea to kick the ball anywhere near Longer? He is consistently out marked by midfielders let alone other ruckman

Really?????

[hungry for a premiership]

"At kick-ins, a player will no longer need to kick to himself to play on from the goalsquare.

Absolutely disgraceful rule change, that.

The goal-square is now obsolete. No need for a goal-square, anymore. If this is the rule that they want to bring in, then get rid of the bloody goal-square, too. You can't make the goal-square obsolete and then not get rid of them. It really gets my goat the way they buggerize around with these tiggy-touchwood rules that do little more than detract from the essence of what makes the game great.

[BackFromUSA]

It is going to be impossible to defend high. I think most teams defending a kick in will just go 1 on 1 to keep contests and keep it simple.

[Viscount Jeremiah]

We might do worse than just kicking up the guts as far as possible where Billy would lurk and just take our chances with the chaos ball that results. The tired old set piece of last year was ineffective so there has to be a change up and a few scenarios used to at least try to confuse the opposition. Hopefully it doesn't confuse our guys as well.

Surely you don't think its a good idea to kick the ball anywhere near Longer? He is consistently out marked by midfielders let alone other ruckman

Really?????

This wouldn't be a shocking statement though I wouldn't have thought. He does need to improve his marking before the boys would kick it to him in a contest.

I have to give you credit though stonecold you are a loyal supporter that sticks by your player and I hope you prove me and everyone wrong and Billy turns out to be a gun this year.

[Gershwin]

Very interesting article. Make no mistake, this is an area where we can gain ground on the opposition or fall behind.

"The new kick-in rules are set to open up the game for teams that can exploit them, and St Kilda knows it has a serious weapon on its hands.
Shane Savage's thumping right boot was used after opposition behinds more than any other Saint last season and that is set to continue.
As a refresher, the kick-in changes will see the man on the mark pushed back to 10m out from the top of the goalsquare, rather than 5m.
Also, if someone like Savage chooses to play on, he won't need to kick to himself first.
To put it simply, sides should be able to gain a lot more ground than previously.

It won't be a case of going fast every time though. In fact, St Kilda identified it tended to move the ball too quickly in 2018, leading to some unsightly turnovers.

For Savage, how swiftly he goes will depend on the situation.

"The way I see it, it's risk versus reward," Savage told AFL.com.au.
While the 28-year-old is poised to take the bulk of kick-in duties, scything left-footer Jimmy Webster and the cool-headed Dylan Roberton will also help out.

The trio have spoken about how they plan on adapting to the new rules.

"At training, we're always looking for innovative ways to take the opposition on and get bang for buck, because I guess the worst option for us is to kick it short and get closed down," Savage said.

Another important aspect of improving kick-ins is what happens further up the ground.

"The thing we focused on a lot more this year is just a lot more movement, getting moving and not being stagnant for the kicker, and just giving him a better option," Savage said.

"That's obviously been a big focus, just making it easier for us to find something, because there's nothing worse when everyone's just standing still and there aren't many options for the kicker."
"If you want to play it safe, then just stay in the square and look to find an option, but if you want to take a risk, then look to take them on and take a bit of ground."