Hannebury Hurts Sometimes.....

[SaintPav]

I'm not the one trying to suggest NF's VFL form was comparable to DH's AFL form over a sustained period of time, no misrepresentation needed on my behalf.

No-one is.

It must be hard to keep up at times? No wonder the concept of a process seems so exciting.

Enjoyed that spread sheet you put together btw, can you do pie charts? DH and NF in the same sentence...is that you Con.

Can't wait for round 6.

Spreadsheets, matrices, pie charts... it's all very bamboozling isn't it?

Cairnsman wants to appeal to the intellectually challenged and he knows most of them like things simplified - hence the argument turns into DH's AFL career and AA awards versus NF's career stats and VFL form. Yep...that's exactly what skeptic, dragit and I were arguing

The average supporter doesn't usually look at long term salary cap issues, opportunity cost (i.e. paying overs for DH and perhaps being impacted on who you might be able to bid for in future years) physical health and longevity, list management and team balance. I didn't specifically talk about the impact of all these factors however I also didn't exclude all these factors and just focus on past performance as the criteria when comparing the 2 players

No one is suggesting that you should compare the 2 players as though St Kilda should have made a decision to keep or recruit only 1 of them. Once again this is how the argument is turned into a simplified DH versus NF debate by those who don't want to discuss the merits of each decision the football club has made and discussing who makes the decisions and whether we have the right people making these decisions

Perhaps Cairnsman hasn't read the exit interviews of what key players said about the coaching and disorganized training sessions last year.

Bye Richo.

[SaintPav]

I'm not the one trying to suggest NF's VFL form was comparable to DH's AFL form over a sustained period of time, no misrepresentation needed on my behalf.

No-one is.

It must be hard to keep up at times? No wonder the concept of a process seems so exciting.

Enjoyed that spread sheet you put together btw, can you do pie charts? DH and NF in the same sentence...is that you Con.

Can't wait for round 6.

Spreadsheets, matrices, pie charts... it's all very bamboozling isn't it?

Cairnsman wants to appeal to the intellectually challenged and he knows most of them like things simplified - hence the argument turns into DH's AFL career and AA awards versus NF's career stats and VFL form. Yep...that's exactly what skeptic, dragit and I were arguing

The average supporter doesn't usually look at long term salary cap issues, opportunity cost (i.e. paying overs for DH and perhaps being impacted on who you might be able to bid for in future years) physical health and longevity, list management and team balance. I didn't specifically talk about the impact of all these factors however I also didn't exclude all these factors and just focus on past performance as the criteria when comparing the 2 players

No one is suggesting that you should compare the 2 players as though St Kilda should have made a decision to keep or recruit only 1 of them. Once again this is how the argument is turned into a simplified DH versus NF debate by those who don't want to discuss the merits of each decision the football club has made and discussing who makes the decisions and whether we have the right people making these decisions

Perhaps Cairnsman hasn't read the exit interviews of what key players said about the coaching and disorganized training sessions last year.

Bye Richo.

[Scollop]

Comparing Hannebury and Freeman - lol. Unfortunately Nathan hasn't got back the assets that made him a top draft pick - speed and power, which is why the Saints picked him up, trying to fill the need for speed. However did not work, we have plenty of his current type who have got some runs on the board, so the hard decision to delist. Maybe he might yet get it back - I hope so. But over the next 2-3 years Hannebury will provide far more value with leadership and experience which is lacking, and as a bonus may even get back to near his best.

LOL at the usual suspects not understanding this thread and then misrepresenting the points made by those supporting concerns raised by the op. Saints gambled with Freeman and now they are gambling with Hannebery. In both instances there were serious injury issues over an extended period of time and a high price being paid by our club when seemingly 17 other clubs were not as interested in these blokes for the amounts demanded by the player (in DH's case) or the pick demanded by Collingwood at that time.

But you can just lol for the next 2-3 years while you 'hope' that the DH bonus comes in

[Cairnsman]

The club likes to speculate with its recruiting, so here's some speculation of my own (to be taken with a grain of NaCl):

Maybe the club asked Freeman - maybe even gave him an ultimatum - to demonstrate his zip and outside running ability, in the 2 games he played, and he may have fallen short (in their estimation)?

The thing is we do need to inject pace and outside run - it probably became clear that Freeman wasn't going to provide this, and as we haven't been able to attract/recruit any proven AFL players, we recruited a number of mature-age, pacy, outside players ( playing at lower levels), in the hope that one or more might make it.

We rolled the dice once again - having given up on Freeman.

Best theory so far

so who possibly could have instigated this "best theory", is it possible a fresh set of eyes arrived at the club and put down the ultimatum? ...then the experts at 17 other clubs agreed.

[takeaway]

Comparing Hannebury and Freeman - lol. Unfortunately Nathan hasn't got back the assets that made him a top draft pick - speed and power, which is why the Saints picked him up, trying to fill the need for speed. However did not work, we have plenty of his current type who have got some runs on the board, so the hard decision to delist. Maybe he might yet get it back - I hope so. But over the next 2-3 years Hannebury will provide far more value with leadership and experience which is lacking, and as a bonus may even get back to near his best.

LOL at the usual suspects not understanding this thread and then misrepresenting the points made by those supporting concerns raised by the op. Saints gambled with Freeman and now they are gambling with Hannebery. In both instances there were serious injury issues over an extended period of time and a high price being paid by our club when seemingly 17 other clubs were not as interested in these blokes for the amounts demanded by the player (in DH's case) or the pick demanded by Collingwood at that time.

But you can just lol for the next 2-3 years while you 'hope' that the DH bonus comes in

Good old scollop, as usual. Any posters that don't agree with your views on ops are "misrepresenting the points made". Maybe some are just "average supporters" who just wish to express their views and don't have your outstanding insights into, into ....... well I'm sure there's something.

[tedtheodorelogan2018]

Dan will prove to be one of our best pickups since the turn of the century. He has been great already. Quality leader. A grade.

As for Freeman, if you think he was going to play a 100+ games for the Saints then you are delusional. You pretty much recruit every player to hopefully pass this bookmark unless its a vet with 1-3 years left.

Comparing Freeman and Dan...is it April fools day already?

[dragit]

Games played is an interesting point of difference though. One played 15 games and was the team's best player in a final. The other played 2 for a bottom 4 side. Both injury affected seasons but that suggests the difference between the players.

Games played is an interesting difference, though I would actually lean that difference in the favour of the guy who played his first two ever games compared to the 200+ gamer.

I find it weird that we actually have to cycle through a number of possible excuses as to why the stats don't say what we want them to say… Time on ground > Injuries > Games Played… ludicrous, disingenuous, LOL-worthy, the facts are that on the data available, a player who we delisted after 3 years of rehab for 2 AFL games in Freeman was playing AFL at a very similar level to a player we have traded in for 4-5 years and 4 million dollars.

No-one is disputing Dan's past career form or suggesting Freeman is a better player in any capacity, but their corresponding numbers are eerily similar for two players at polar opposite ends of the food chain.

The tally of 15 games from Hannebery is more of a concern to me than if he had only managed 5-6, the guy is looking at a massively games-played focused trigger clause with us to earn an extra $800,000, ther eis no way he going to put his hand up and say he isn't right to go, just as he played most of last season at the swans.

If Hannebery gets back to his best, we are laughing, if he doens't improve from 2018, then everybody will be laughing… most likely somewhere in between.

[asiu]

... the guy is looking at a massively games-played focused trigger clause with us to earn an extra $800,000, ther eis no way he going to put his hand up and say he isn't right to go, ...

whats this bit D

(the entrails of his contract obviously)

can u explain that out for me
a little slower

[asiu]

60 games over 4 years earns him his last season

is that the gist of it ?

[dragit]

60 games over 4 years earns him his last season

is that the gist of it ?

Yar close, I think it is 70 games over the four years… that triggers a fifth year, 17-18 games per year.

He's never going to put his hand up and say "I'm sore" with that clause looming.

[asiu]

3 x 22 = 66

so , basically has 18 games up his sleeve
for body management over the 4

seems fair to both parties

i get your point
but he risks turning something minor into something serious by not doing things properly ‘n promptly

[ListManager]

I would have thought that no player is 'picked up' by another club without a full medical examination being done, so nobody would have just 'relied on our judgement'.
BUT the fact that no other Club picked up Freeman confirms St Kilda's assessment of him - they all must think there are better options than him going into season 2019.

Absolute Cods Wallop. The 2 games he played for us in the seniors he was better than most. Getting rid of Freeman (and to a lesser extent Goddard), was a stupid decision. Gallagher should have been immediately removed from his newly acquired position. I would have de-listed McCartin way before even considering Freeman and Goddard.

Troll.

Mods, get rid of this oxygen theif.

saintspremiers is a classic example of why posters are leaving Saintsational. Instead of debating he/she goes at the man.

[saynta]

I would have thought that no player is 'picked up' by another club without a full medical examination being done, so nobody would have just 'relied on our judgement'.
BUT the fact that no other Club picked up Freeman confirms St Kilda's assessment of him - they all must think there are better options than him going into season 2019.

Absolute Cods Wallop. The 2 games he played for us in the seniors he was better than most. Getting rid of Freeman (and to a lesser extent Goddard), was a stupid decision. Gallagher should have been immediately removed from his newly acquired position. I would have de-listed McCartin way before even considering Freeman and Goddard.

Troll.

Mods, get rid of this oxygen theif.

saintspremiers is a classic example of why posters are leaving Saintsational. Instead of debating he/she goes at the man.

Your not far wrong there.

Also it is against the rules for calling for another poster to be banned.

You should press the report button.

[sabras]

Did Dan train today? Was not in any of the pics on Facebook/Instagram.