2 and 4

[saintspremiers]

Let’s look at it differently.

Perhaps Ratten is the one pulling Richo’s strings now, and with a new footy department Richo’s role is dramatically different.

Also, the board is largely the same. It was clear at the AGM that Summers is veiewed by the board as a god and it was a peaceful transition to Bassat.

So unless essentially the same board and same CEO do an about face I’ve almost resigned myself to believe that we are stuck with Richo for the whole season. At the end of 2019, once we have missed the finals, it’s the trigger clause in his contract that’s been welll reported that will finally put it to bed IMO.

[samoht]

If our board was looking for immediate results, would we have drafted another forward "that'll take time" with our pick 4?

Chances are we'll be trying out some of our new mature-age recruits next year, seeing if they have what it takes at AFL level and bringing them up to speed with things, and so experimenting a little - so I think it'll be what happens in the second half of the season that'll be more indicative of how we're going, after we've first determined (and then settled for) our best line-up. I don't think the axe will be sharpened early on (if at all), with all this in mind.
But, whether we're sitting at 6-0 or 0-6 - it will be attributable to the combination of all our coaches (and on how we've drafted and recruited, compared to the teams around us, if you ask me) - it's not just "Richo", and it'll depend on how the players respond to the new coaches and new ideas.

I think the Richo/Ratten combo, a match-day coach with a calm head, and a more hands-on coach in Ratten, barking out instructions on the training track, geeing the players up, bringing in some new ideas, etc.. might prove to be a good thing.

I think the wait-and-see approach is appropriate here.

[the dome]

The Mystic says we lose to the Suns and then win the next 3.


Intense & a mini roller coaster I'd be happy to see happen.

[Saints43]

Hardwick wasn't rated by anyone.
Would be out of work if his contract had ended in 2016.
He had his football department reorganised against his wishes. And they win a flag. If he had his way they don't and he loses his job.
Who cares how it happens? Nobody.
I'll be delighted to be wrong about <edited by mods> Cho.

<warning for using a banned term>

[axcellence]

When the draw came out, I thought 2-9 would be probable or 3-8 will be the result for the first 11 games. Yet, I and others think 8-12 wins for the year is possible. Just how the draw is set out.

[dragit]

Hardwick wasn't rated by anyone.
Would be out of work if his contract had ended in 2016.
He had his football department reorganised against his wishes. And they win a flag. If he had his way they don't and he loses his job.
Who cares how it happens? Nobody.
I'll be delighted to be wrong about <edited by mods> Cho.

<warning for using a banned term>

Haha you naughty person.

It's Da' Cho

The is banned.

[Saints43]

Hardwick wasn't rated by anyone.
Would be out of work if his contract had ended in 2016.
He had his football department reorganised against his wishes. And they win a flag. If he had his way they don't and he loses his job.
Who cares how it happens? Nobody.
I'll be delighted to be wrong about <edited by mods> Cho.

<warning for using a banned term>

Who gives a f*** mate.
f*** off.
You've killed the site.

[DJ Higgins]

SUNS - win
BOMBERS - loss
FREO AWAY - loss
HAWKS - win
DEMONS - loss
CROWS - win

3-3

richo stays

No way we are beating the crowd and the Hawks will out coach us easily. I'm expecting 1-5

[skeptic]

Hardwick wasn't rated by anyone.
Would be out of work if his contract had ended in 2016.
He had his football department reorganised against his wishes. And they win a flag. If he had his way they don't and he loses his job.
Who cares how it happens? Nobody.

It is rather the exception than the rule

[skeptic]

If our board was looking for immediate results, would we have drafted another forward "that'll take time" with our pick 4?

Chances are we'll be trying out some of our new mature-age recruits next year, seeing if they have what it takes at AFL level and bringing them up to speed with things, and so experimenting a little - so I think it'll be what happens in the second half of the season that'll be more indicative of how we're going, after we've first determined (and then settled for) our best line-up. I don't think the axe will be sharpened early on (if at all), with all this in mind.
But, whether we're sitting at 6-0 or 0-6 - it will be attributable to the combination of all our coaches (and on how we've drafted and recruited, compared to the teams around us, if you ask me) - it's not just "Richo", and it'll depend on how the players respond to the new coaches and new ideas.

I think the Richo/Ratten combo, a match-day coach with a calm head, and a more hands-on coach in Ratten, barking out instructions on the training track, geeing the players up, bringing in some new ideas, etc.. might prove to be a good thing.

I think the wait-and-see approach is appropriate here.

Good post.

I would say however that the long term approach could also be indicative of not wanting/expecting immediate results but rather putting a line through the season/list and starting the rebuild all over again.

The bottom line is we can’t definitively interpret the actions one way or another

I am curious though... do you think Richo makes it out of the season?

[Cairnsman]

If our board was looking for immediate results, would we have drafted another forward "that'll take time" with our pick 4?

Chances are we'll be trying out some of our new mature-age recruits next year, seeing if they have what it takes at AFL level and bringing them up to speed with things, and so experimenting a little - so I think it'll be what happens in the second half of the season that'll be more indicative of how we're going, after we've first determined (and then settled for) our best line-up. I don't think the axe will be sharpened early on (if at all), with all this in mind.
But, whether we're sitting at 6-0 or 0-6 - it will be attributable to the combination of all our coaches (and on how we've drafted and recruited, compared to the teams around us, if you ask me) - it's not just "Richo", and it'll depend on how the players respond to the new coaches and new ideas.

I think the Richo/Ratten combo, a match-day coach with a calm head, and a more hands-on coach in Ratten, barking out instructions on the training track, geeing the players up, bringing in some new ideas, etc.. might prove to be a good thing.

I think the wait-and-see approach is appropriate here.

Good post.

I would say however that the long term approach could also be indicative of not wanting/expecting immediate results but rather putting a line through the season/list and starting the rebuild all over again.

The bottom line is we can’t definitively interpret the actions one way or another

I am curious though... do you think Richo makes it out of the season?

Rebuild? And shouldn't you at least wait until round 6 before making such assertions?

The sky isn't falling...

[skeptic]

If our board was looking for immediate results, would we have drafted another forward "that'll take time" with our pick 4?

Chances are we'll be trying out some of our new mature-age recruits next year, seeing if they have what it takes at AFL level and bringing them up to speed with things, and so experimenting a little - so I think it'll be what happens in the second half of the season that'll be more indicative of how we're going, after we've first determined (and then settled for) our best line-up. I don't think the axe will be sharpened early on (if at all), with all this in mind.
But, whether we're sitting at 6-0 or 0-6 - it will be attributable to the combination of all our coaches (and on how we've drafted and recruited, compared to the teams around us, if you ask me) - it's not just "Richo", and it'll depend on how the players respond to the new coaches and new ideas.

I think the Richo/Ratten combo, a match-day coach with a calm head, and a more hands-on coach in Ratten, barking out instructions on the training track, geeing the players up, bringing in some new ideas, etc.. might prove to be a good thing.

I think the wait-and-see approach is appropriate here.

Good post.

I would say however that the long term approach could also be indicative of not wanting/expecting immediate results but rather putting a line through the season/list and starting the rebuild all over again.

The bottom line is we can’t definitively interpret the actions one way or another

I am curious though... do you think Richo makes it out of the season?

Rebuild? And shouldn't you at least wait until round 6 before making such assertions?

The sky isn't falling...

I wouldn’t call it an assertion.

I’ll ask the same question to you though CM. Do you think Richo makes it out of the season?

[asiu]

i do

fwtw

stability is key to the bigger picture

[Cairnsman]

If our board was looking for immediate results, would we have drafted another forward "that'll take time" with our pick 4?

Chances are we'll be trying out some of our new mature-age recruits next year, seeing if they have what it takes at AFL level and bringing them up to speed with things, and so experimenting a little - so I think it'll be what happens in the second half of the season that'll be more indicative of how we're going, after we've first determined (and then settled for) our best line-up. I don't think the axe will be sharpened early on (if at all), with all this in mind.
But, whether we're sitting at 6-0 or 0-6 - it will be attributable to the combination of all our coaches (and on how we've drafted and recruited, compared to the teams around us, if you ask me) - it's not just "Richo", and it'll depend on how the players respond to the new coaches and new ideas.

I think the Richo/Ratten combo, a match-day coach with a calm head, and a more hands-on coach in Ratten, barking out instructions on the training track, geeing the players up, bringing in some new ideas, etc.. might prove to be a good thing.

I think the wait-and-see approach is appropriate here.

Good post.

I would say however that the long term approach could also be indicative of not wanting/expecting immediate results but rather putting a line through the season/list and starting the rebuild all over again.

The bottom line is we can’t definitively interpret the actions one way or another

I am curious though... do you think Richo makes it out of the season?

Rebuild? And shouldn't you at least wait until round 6 before making such assertions?

The sky isn't falling...

I wouldn’t call it an assertion.

I’ll ask the same question to you though CM. Do you think Richo makes it out of the season?

There was an assertion but I'll go to your question by firstly saying my position on AR is this, I wouldn't know a good AFL coach from a bad one, I reckon that describes 99% of us. The reason I have been supportive of AR remaining coach for 2019 is probably the same reason the admin, players and Simon Lethlean have believed it is the right decision. It's the sum of all parts and the club has been very clear about which parts need improving and I would bet my left testicle that included giving AR feedback on where he needs to improve. And so it made complete sense to go around again in 2019 with AR becsuse the coach and a game plan are arguably significantly less important parts and changing those things before moving to fix the other parts could have just created an implosion. Working to consolidate and stabilise the situation rather than adding to the organisations workload was not what was needed. So just to be clear, I'm not a blind supporter of AR, if the results are poor in 2019 then he will struggle to keep his job.

Skeptic with regards to your loaded question re will AR last the 2019 season, I say this, any fool can predict failure so I'll ask you a question, if AR does last the full 2019 season, explain why you think it happened.

[desertsaint]

Hardwick wasn't rated by anyone.
Would be out of work if his contract had ended in 2016.
He had his football department reorganised against his wishes. And they win a flag. If he had his way they don't and he loses his job.
Who cares how it happens? Nobody.
I'll be delighted to be wrong about <edited by mods> Cho.

<warning for using a banned term>

Haha you naughty person.

It's Da' Cho

The is banned.

tut tut.
'el Cho'

[desertsaint]

pretty sure it was fine - according to urban dictionary, our gold standard in definition, the two words 'the, and 'cho' must both be sans capitals for it to mean either:

"nickname of people with surname "Richardson"; shortened version of another nicname "RiCHO""
67 likes 1 dislike

or

"when you're attempting to be rather amorous with a member of the fairer sex etc, etc, something about her state of intoxication, something about her current usage of a common household disposal facility. etc. etc. icky poo.
17 likes, 30 dislikes.

[skeptic]

If our board was looking for immediate results, would we have drafted another forward "that'll take time" with our pick 4?

Chances are we'll be trying out some of our new mature-age recruits next year, seeing if they have what it takes at AFL level and bringing them up to speed with things, and so experimenting a little - so I think it'll be what happens in the second half of the season that'll be more indicative of how we're going, after we've first determined (and then settled for) our best line-up. I don't think the axe will be sharpened early on (if at all), with all this in mind.
But, whether we're sitting at 6-0 or 0-6 - it will be attributable to the combination of all our coaches (and on how we've drafted and recruited, compared to the teams around us, if you ask me) - it's not just "Richo", and it'll depend on how the players respond to the new coaches and new ideas.

I think the Richo/Ratten combo, a match-day coach with a calm head, and a more hands-on coach in Ratten, barking out instructions on the training track, geeing the players up, bringing in some new ideas, etc.. might prove to be a good thing.

I think the wait-and-see approach is appropriate here.

Good post.

I would say however that the long term approach could also be indicative of not wanting/expecting immediate results but rather putting a line through the season/list and starting the rebuild all over again.

The bottom line is we can’t definitively interpret the actions one way or another

I am curious though... do you think Richo makes it out of the season?

Rebuild? And shouldn't you at least wait until round 6 before making such assertions?

The sky isn't falling...

I wouldn’t call it an assertion.

I’ll ask the same question to you though CM. Do you think Richo makes it out of the season?

There was an assertion but I'll go to your question by firstly saying my position on AR is this, I wouldn't know a good AFL coach from a bad one, I reckon that describes 99% of us. The reason I have been supportive of AR remaining coach for 2019 is probably the same reason the admin, players and Simon Lethlean have believed it is the right decision. It's the sum of all parts and the club has been very clear about which parts need improving and I would bet my left testicle that included giving AR feedback on where he needs to improve. And so it made complete sense to go around again in 2019 with AR becsuse the coach and a game plan are arguably significantly less important parts and changing those things before moving to fix the other parts could have just created an implosion. Working to consolidate and stabilise the situation rather than adding to the organisations workload was not what was needed. So just to be clear, I'm not a blind supporter of AR, if the results are poor in 2019 then he will struggle to keep his job.

Skeptic with regards to your loaded question re will AR last the 2019 season, I say this, any fool can predict failure so I'll ask you a question, if AR does last the full 2019 season, explain why you think it happened.

I think you’ve misinterpreted my intent hence I will explain my position and then answer your question as best I can.

The basis of this line of chat started with samhot taking an action taking by the club and interpreting it to mean something. I took the same event and provided a completely different rationale as to how it could be interpreted with the point being made that there’s really not enough information there to definitively interpret such things one way or another or another or another.

No assertion there... and to be I’ve never claimed any inside knowledge or even claimed to really know what I’m talking beyond merely hypothesising with incomplete info as almost all of us here do... AND I don’t apologise for that. It’s a St. Kilda discussion forum that’s what we do here. AM not directing this comment to you specifically CM but there is far to much grandiosity here at times with regards to the value/impact of the words written here on the club.
The reality is none of us having anything of value (to the club at least) to contribute with a few exceptions like Saintbrat who focuses on positive exposure and the player sponsorship program.

Back on point, I can only assume that you’ve intepreted my question as an assertion. It wasn’t meant to be.

I’m aware that a reasonable portion of this forum supports/believes the view that Richo is a good coach, that he is backed/supported by the club and that and that the club has done a review that has suggested that Richo did/does not have/had the adequate resources to achieve the goals set out.

Whilst this is not my view personally, certainly on an external level it’s reasonable to interpret things this way.

However, I have noted that many forumites that appear to embrace this view (dare I say positivity)... there still exists the notion that if the club does not do well... especially if they start poorly, that Richo could be sacked as early as round 6.

Again I don’t know the inside word or murmurings of the club but this view is intirguing because IMO, this views cannot mutually coincide/co-exist.

Either the club believes that Richo:
A) Is the man for the job long term, supports his view/strategy, has backed him, supported him with more resources etc
B) Are unsure if he has what it takes but will do everything to support him whilst he’s under contract until the time comes to make a decision one way or another
C) They don’t believe he is the man for the job and are transitioning in the ackground until they can pull the trigger

If the answer is A), the club’s onfield performance really shouldn’t factor into the discussion... it would be almost irrelevant barring a disaster if everyone is on the same page.

More likely, the answer is B) though many of the conspiracists here think the latter with Ratten being suggested as a predetermined successor.

WIth regards to Samoht... I always interpreted him to be highly supportive of Richo as coach which is why I was quite surprised in another thread when he described the club as starting a game of chess without a Queen (with Richo metaphorically being the most powerful piece on the board, and being absent for us).
Samoht has been very vocal over many months of his view that the club’s playing list compounded by years of subpar recruiting is the bigger problem with the inference being what could any coach do with what we have. I interpreted this view as being one that was supportive of the coach’s tenure hence realised that I may have misinterpreted his views... however, posts like the one I’ve quoted have caused me to rethink that position too.

Hence my question.

I appreciate you sharing your views on why you support Richo carrying on in 2019... My view on why I don’t think he should have continued has been well documented on this forum (as you well know ) and I’m generally not positing it these days as we’re well past the will they won’t they phase.
I do really want him to succeed and support him in the sense that I’ll cheer his successes and wish him the best but my posts will of course reflect how I feel which is that I don’t believe he is good enough.

Now onto your question... if the coach survives 2019 it will be because the people running the club will/do believe that Richo is the best available person to take/lead/coach the playing group to where they want it to go/be at in a particular timeframe.
I hope expect that such a decision would be highly influenced by improved onfield results in 2019. Now I’m not suggesting that that is measured in wins/losses or definitely finals because we could still improve markedly in different ways and not achieve those wins. It’s hard without knowing where the club thinks we’re at.

For me personally, after a disappointing end to 2017 there were a handful of markers that I identified and posted at the time that Richo needed to address/improve on in 2018, not things out of his control but purely from a coaching POV (burst list or worst list). He didn’t hit any of them hence my lack of faith... have to imagine the club has it’s own markers

[guitars4]

The Mystic says we lose to the Suns and then win the next 3.

If we lose to the Sun's I don't hold out a lot of hope for the rest of the season but no matter who gets the reins it's going to be a tough gig . I suppose you have wait & see

[Scollop]

skeptic;

I thought Samoht meant that the humans were the defacto coaches and the chess pieces were their players. Hence the analogy with one of the humans starting without a queen ( which I interpreted to mean that one team had more talent on the field or more 'A graders'...or in this case it was a distinct disadvantage because one coach did not have his best and most influentual player ) as was consistent with samohts argument regarding recruiting or specifically that the failure and shortcomings of St Kilda recruiters were the major reason we were at the bottom of the ladder and that head coaches were 'generic' or something along those lines.

[skeptic]

skeptic;

I thought Samoht meant that the humans were the defacto coaches and the chess pieces were their players. Hence the analogy with one of the humans starting without a queen ( which I interpreted to mean that one team had more talent on the field or more 'A graders'...or in this case it was a distinct disadvantage because one coach did not have his best and most influentual player ) as was consistent with samohts argument regarding recruiting or specifically that the failure and shortcomings of St Kilda recruiters were the major reason we were at the bottom of the ladder and that head coaches were 'generic' or something along those lines.

If that’s correct then it makes more sense... I didn’t really get the analogy at the time. I read it to be that Richo as coach was like not having a queen

Completely misreading it would def make it less effective in the eye of the beholder

[Cairnsman]

The Mystic says we lose to the Suns and then win the next 3.

If we lose to the Sun's I don't hold out a lot of hope for the rest of the season but no matter who gets the reins it's going to be a tough gig . I suppose you have wait & see

I think if we lose to the Suns Ratten will have to take full accountability.

[Cairnsman]

If our board was looking for immediate results, would we have drafted another forward "that'll take time" with our pick 4?

Chances are we'll be trying out some of our new mature-age recruits next year, seeing if they have what it takes at AFL level and bringing them up to speed with things, and so experimenting a little - so I think it'll be what happens in the second half of the season that'll be more indicative of how we're going, after we've first determined (and then settled for) our best line-up. I don't think the axe will be sharpened early on (if at all), with all this in mind.
But, whether we're sitting at 6-0 or 0-6 - it will be attributable to the combination of all our coaches (and on how we've drafted and recruited, compared to the teams around us, if you ask me) - it's not just "Richo", and it'll depend on how the players respond to the new coaches and new ideas.

I think the Richo/Ratten combo, a match-day coach with a calm head, and a more hands-on coach in Ratten, barking out instructions on the training track, geeing the players up, bringing in some new ideas, etc.. might prove to be a good thing.

I think the wait-and-see approach is appropriate here.

Good post.

I would say however that the long term approach could also be indicative of not wanting/expecting immediate results but rather putting a line through the season/list and starting the rebuild all over again.

The bottom line is we can’t definitively interpret the actions one way or another

I am curious though... do you think Richo makes it out of the season?

Rebuild? And shouldn't you at least wait until round 6 before making such assertions?

The sky isn't falling...

I wouldn’t call it an assertion.

I’ll ask the same question to you though CM. Do you think Richo makes it out of the season?

There was an assertion but I'll go to your question by firstly saying my position on AR is this, I wouldn't know a good AFL coach from a bad one, I reckon that describes 99% of us. The reason I have been supportive of AR remaining coach for 2019 is probably the same reason the admin, players and Simon Lethlean have believed it is the right decision. It's the sum of all parts and the club has been very clear about which parts need improving and I would bet my left testicle that included giving AR feedback on where he needs to improve. And so it made complete sense to go around again in 2019 with AR becsuse the coach and a game plan are arguably significantly less important parts and changing those things before moving to fix the other parts could have just created an implosion. Working to consolidate and stabilise the situation rather than adding to the organisations workload was not what was needed. So just to be clear, I'm not a blind supporter of AR, if the results are poor in 2019 then he will struggle to keep his job.

Skeptic with regards to your loaded question re will AR last the 2019 season, I say this, any fool can predict failure so I'll ask you a question, if AR does last the full 2019 season, explain why you think it happened.

I think you’ve misinterpreted my intent hence I will explain my position and then answer your question as best I can.

The basis of this line of chat started with samhot taking an action taking by the club and interpreting it to mean something. I took the same event and provided a completely different rationale as to how it could be interpreted with the point being made that there’s really not enough information there to definitively interpret such things one way or another or another or another.

No assertion there... and to be I’ve never claimed any inside knowledge or even claimed to really know what I’m talking beyond merely hypothesising with incomplete info as almost all of us here do... AND I don’t apologise for that. It’s a St. Kilda discussion forum that’s what we do here. AM not directing this comment to you specifically CM but there is far to much grandiosity here at times with regards to the value/impact of the words written here on the club.
The reality is none of us having anything of value (to the club at least) to contribute with a few exceptions like Saintbrat who focuses on positive exposure and the player sponsorship program.

Back on point, I can only assume that you’ve intepreted my question as an assertion. It wasn’t meant to be.

I’m aware that a reasonable portion of this forum supports/believes the view that Richo is a good coach, that he is backed/supported by the club and that and that the club has done a review that has suggested that Richo did/does not have/had the adequate resources to achieve the goals set out.

Whilst this is not my view personally, certainly on an external level it’s reasonable to interpret things this way.

However, I have noted that many forumites that appear to embrace this view (dare I say positivity)... there still exists the notion that if the club does not do well... especially if they start poorly, that Richo could be sacked as early as round 6.

Again I don’t know the inside word or murmurings of the club but this view is intirguing because IMO, this views cannot mutually coincide/co-exist.

Either the club believes that Richo:
A) Is the man for the job long term, supports his view/strategy, has backed him, supported him with more resources etc
B) Are unsure if he has what it takes but will do everything to support him whilst he’s under contract until the time comes to make a decision one way or another
C) They don’t believe he is the man for the job and are transitioning in the ackground until they can pull the trigger

If the answer is A), the club’s onfield performance really shouldn’t factor into the discussion... it would be almost irrelevant barring a disaster if everyone is on the same page.

More likely, the answer is B) though many of the conspiracists here think the latter with Ratten being suggested as a predetermined successor.

WIth regards to Samoht... I always interpreted him to be highly supportive of Richo as coach which is why I was quite surprised in another thread when he described the club as starting a game of chess without a Queen (with Richo metaphorically being the most powerful piece on the board, and being absent for us).
Samoht has been very vocal over many months of his view that the club’s playing list compounded by years of subpar recruiting is the bigger problem with the inference being what could any coach do with what we have. I interpreted this view as being one that was supportive of the coach’s tenure hence realised that I may have misinterpreted his views... however, posts like the one I’ve quoted have caused me to rethink that position too.

Hence my question.

I appreciate you sharing your views on why you support Richo carrying on in 2019... My view on why I don’t think he should have continued has been well documented on this forum (as you well know ) and I’m generally not positing it these days as we’re well past the will they won’t they phase.
I do really want him to succeed and support him in the sense that I’ll cheer his successes and wish him the best but my posts will of course reflect how I feel which is that I don’t believe he is good enough.

Now onto your question... if the coach survives 2019 it will be because the people running the club will/do believe that Richo is the best available person to take/lead/coach the playing group to where they want it to go/be at in a particular timeframe.
I hope expect that such a decision would be highly influenced by improved onfield results in 2019. Now I’m not suggesting that that is measured in wins/losses or definitely finals because we could still improve markedly in different ways and not achieve those wins. It’s hard without knowing where the club thinks we’re at.

For me personally, after a disappointing end to 2017 there were a handful of markers that I identified and posted at the time that Richo needed to address/improve on in 2018, not things out of his control but purely from a coaching POV (burst list or worst list). He didn’t hit any of them hence my lack of faith... have to imagine the club has it’s own markers

Let's try again, if Richo is still coach at the start of the 2020 season, what do you think it will be he got right in 2019.

A hint: try and think about what things Richo might do well in 2019, what are his strengths, what does he do well? positive attributes, it's a mindset.

[samoht]

Yes, scollop. That's what I was getting at (with my chess analogy). I'm not supportive of Richo, I'm just contending that you can't really get a handle on a coach's capabilities from their wins/losses.
The important thing (to me) is to recruit and draft our way to a strong list - I think smart, targeted and planned recruiting is the key.

Proof that it's never an even playing field - is that you can have a 19-0 coach and a 0-10 coach being one and the same coach (Ross Lyon).
Norm Smith may have won 6 premierships when in charge of a very strong Melbourne list, in the 1950's, but he had a 33% win loss ratio from 1965 to 1972.

Year Team Games Coached Wins Losses Draws Win %
1965 Melbourne Demons 17 10 7 0 58.8%
1966 Melbourne Demons 19 3 16 0 15.8%
1967 Melbourne Demons 18 8 10 0 44.4%
1969 South Melbourne Swans 20 7 13 0 35.0%
1970 South Melbourne Swans 23 14 9 0 60.9%
1971 South Melbourne Swans 22 3 19 0 13.6%
1972 South Melbourne Swans 22 2 20 0 9.1%

What happened in 1966, 1971 and 1972? This is Norm Smith, acknowledged as the doyen of coaches. His win/loss ratio is up and down like a yoyo, year by year.
I think the appropriate thing to do is to wait and see, with the new coaches on board, and above all we need to nail our recruiting from now on.
Build it (draft and recruit our way to a strong list) and they (the wins) will come.

[asiu]

why is the Queen deemed as the power piece
when a pawn can do her job as well as their own

gaz wonders to self

[Yorkeys]

Selective history lessons are interesting just as comparing apples and oranges is interesting. Looking elsewhere however if, say, NFL and EPL are best practice models in terms of coaching appointments then losing coaches are only given so much rope - certainly not 5+ years - whatever high level skills/records they have, winning a good percentage of the time is the bottom line. Sacked coaches are often reappointed elsewhere it is just acknowledged that in a set of circumstances it is just not working (4 from 22). The question the club might well answer for us is why it has so much faith in AR despite his results. Assistant coaches as a reason is not credible. Is it accepted our list is rubbish and no one could have done better ? We may never know unless a Royal Commission calls witnesses. What we suffering know nothing supporters can see is that we have lost or nearly lost games through poor coaching/selection and regularly have our pants pulled down. I can't remember us winning games due to AR doing something inspired (?). Above is a question about how he can retain his job in 2020; I imagine it will require the emergence of talent previously not seen from the list and revelationary role changes or Lenny declines the job. Isn't pre-season speculation fun.