Daniel McKenzie

[chico2001]

I like him but his disposal is fairly average and conservative, unsure if he can improve that to a level required. Defensive skills, marking and run are very good but lacks some polish at this stage.

Don't understand why people think his disposal is poor or average. He was ranked FIRST for effective disposals this year (minimum 5 games played for the year). I don't think he is conservative either as he's one of the few players on our list that when he gets the ball, he immediately looks forward to get the offense going.

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_ ... t=LA&st=EP

This where stats are totally misleading. Saints and WCE had 3 each in the top 10......hello….!!!!! Carlisle even got in there and his main disposal method was a dinky 10-15 m pass which was useless.

At least they aren't turn overs. WCE seem to do alright btw...

No they are not but it gives the opposition oodles of time to set up to defend, not only only that it puts the receiver of the dinky kick under presssure and eventually there is a turnover. Just watching one or two games will tell you that. WCE do alright do they? I would not have known that.

Like I said, meaningless stats being used to justify an argument.

D-Mac takes the game on mate (as does Carlisle). Watch the last QTR against the suns or the game against Melbourne at the G this year and you'll see that a lot his touches are setting up the play. If people want to harp on about his average disposal then I think being rated number 1 in efficient disposals is pretty meaningful in that argument... Like Spinner said, we must be watching different games.

Also, you're the one using WCE as an example of having 3 in the top ten so I reckon that's a compliment to our mob as Hurn, Schofield, and Sheppard are pretty handy players. I think it's exciting to see Coffield in the top ten and at least Browny doesn't waste his 9 disposals!

Talking about a premiership team. 2nd, 7th , 8th and premiers the last 4 years, there is no comparison and no compliments mate. Paint it anyway you want but these saints players need to improve their disposal. I am certainly not going to base their efforts on 2 games especially one against the suns. No-one has said they don't set up play, they just don't do it well enough.

God you're boring.

Get back to me when you know a bit about the game. At the minute , you know f*** all.

[dragit]

How many opp boards do you troll chico?

The commitment is phenomenal.

Whats the problem dragit? You don't like the discussion I put forward.

Nah I dig it, just wondering how many boards you do this on?

Don't know how you CBF'd TBH.

[chico2001]

How many opp boards do you troll chico?

The commitment is phenomenal.

Whats the problem dragit? You don't like the discussion I put forward.

Nah I dig it, just wondering how many boards you do this on?

Don't know how you CBF'd TBH.

"Don't know how you CBF'd TBH."

You might have to explain this one to me, no idea what it means.


I can call you something a bit nastier than a troll if you want to go down that path....


The saints forum is lucky enough to have me all to themselves..


Your last 2 posts have basically been riddles and with no input on the subject matter, why is that?

[dragit]

I can call you something a bit nastier than a troll if you want to go down that path....


The saints forum is lucky enough to have me all to themselves..


Your last 2 posts have basically been riddles and with no input on the subject matter, why is that?

You go your hardest, call me anything you like… I'm sure the majority of saints fans feel really lucky to have you on here continually s*** canning every single part of the club with every post.

I'm the riddler <edited by mods>

[vacuous space]

Meters gained is misleading - terrible players are much more likely to bomb it long for a turnover. Especially out of the backline.

Forwards have more bloated metres gained stats than backs. They have long kicks built into their job description. The longest average disposal on the team was Paddy McCartin (22.21). Our highest in terms of total metres was Seb Ross (9926) who also beat Savage in terms of metres per game (Seb averaged 472.68 to Savage's 408.72). Seb's numbers are bloated by the sheer number of possessions he racks up. In terms of per possession, he gains 15.71 metres.

Metres gained is a quantitative stat, not a qualitative one. One of the frustrating things is the Fox broadcast often presents it without any attempt to contextualise the stat. Telling us Jayden Short has gained 600 metres in a game isn't really useful. It's really just telling you who has moved the ball the most, not who's moving it the best. I think we can all agree with at least part of Roo's rant earlier in the year, that metres gained are of questionable value without retaining possession. It doesn't mean the stat is completely useless, however. We can contextualise it by looking at which players are turning over the ball. Here's our defenders again with turnovers as a percentage of disposals in brackets:

Shane Savage 18.48 (19.35%)
Jimmy Webster 16.11 (18.18%)
Bailey Rice 16.07 (14.57%)
Brandon White 15.86 (22.97%)
Sam Gilbert 15.08 (22.78%)
Logan Austin 13.03 (15.22%)
Daniel McKenzie 12.48 (14.77%)
Jarryn Geary 11.68 (14.71%)
Jake Carlisle 10.37 (14.84%)
Nathan Brown 9.2 (9.9%)

So Sav's adventurousness with the footy isn't without consequence. Also, the guys who handball more are generally turning it over less, which ends up being one of the problems with disposal efficiency. DE is biased toward long and short possession over medium possession, which is an odd preference. DE was developed in the 90s in conjunction with coaches and 90s coaches liked long kicking, so hence that bias. DE naturally favours short possession because it's generally easier to execute, hence that bias. Personally, I'd rather they just gave us the percentage of the time that a player's disposal retained possession rather than attempt a stat that implies quality.

On a final note, I have one last statistic that I want to share: metres per turnover. I'm not going to lie, this one came about because I'm armed with a calculator and I'm not afraid to use it. It is what it is, but I, at least, found it interesting.

Bailey Rice 110.27
Shane Savage 95.55
Nathan Brown 92.82
Jimmy Webster 88.63
Logan Austin 85.67
Daniel McKenzie 84.5
Jarryn Geary 79.39
Jake Carlisle 69.86
Brandon White 69.06
Sam Gilbert 66.17

[chico2001]

I can call you something a bit nastier than a troll if you want to go down that path....


The saints forum is lucky enough to have me all to themselves..


Your last 2 posts have basically been riddles and with no input on the subject matter, why is that?

You go your hardest, call me anything you like… I'm sure the majority of saints fans feel really lucky to have you on here continually s*** canning every single part of the club with every post.

I'm the riddler, so GAGF.

I would like to insult you but with your intelligence you wouldn't get offended...….

[chico2001]

Meters gained is misleading - terrible players are much more likely to bomb it long for a turnover. Especially out of the backline.

Forwards have more bloated metres gained stats than backs. They have long kicks built into their job description. The longest average disposal on the team was Paddy McCartin (22.21). Our highest in terms of total metres was Seb Ross (9926) who also beat Savage in terms of metres per game (Seb averaged 472.68 to Savage's 408.72). Seb's numbers are bloated by the sheer number of possessions he racks up. In terms of per possession, he gains 15.71 metres.

Metres gained is a quantitative stat, not a qualitative one. One of the frustrating things is the Fox broadcast often presents it without any attempt to contextualise the stat. Telling us Jayden Short has gained 600 metres in a game isn't really useful. It's really just telling you who has moved the ball the most, not who's moving it the best. I think we can all agree with at least part of Roo's rant earlier in the year, that metres gained are of questionable value without retaining possession. It doesn't mean the stat is completely useless, however. We can contextualise it by looking at which players are turning over the ball. Here's our defenders again with turnovers as a percentage of disposals in brackets:

Shane Savage 18.48 (19.35%)
Jimmy Webster 16.11 (18.18%)
Bailey Rice 16.07 (14.57%)
Brandon White 15.86 (22.97%)
Sam Gilbert 15.08 (22.78%)
Logan Austin 13.03 (15.22%)
Daniel McKenzie 12.48 (14.77%)
Jarryn Geary 11.68 (14.71%)
Jake Carlisle 10.37 (14.84%)
Nathan Brown 9.2 (9.9%)

So Sav's adventurousness with the footy isn't without consequence. Also, the guys who handball more are generally turning it over less, which ends up being one of the problems with disposal efficiency. DE is biased toward long and short possession over medium possession, which is an odd preference. DE was developed in the 90s in conjunction with coaches and 90s coaches liked long kicking, so hence that bias. DE naturally favours short possession because it's generally easier to execute, hence that bias. Personally, I'd rather they just gave us the percentage of the time that a player's disposal retained possession rather than attempt a stat that implies quality.

On a final note, I have one last statistic that I want to share: metres per turnover. I'm not going to lie, this one came about because I'm armed with a calculator and I'm not afraid to use it. It is what it is, but I, at least, found it interesting.

Bailey Rice 110.27
Shane Savage 95.55
Nathan Brown 92.82
Jimmy Webster 88.63
Logan Austin 85.67
Daniel McKenzie 84.5
Jarryn Geary 79.39
Jake Carlisle 69.86
Brandon White 69.06
Sam Gilbert 66.17

Some very good stats there vac, you know your stuff. Those stats clearly show who is doing what. One thing that should be noticed is that short disposal ( easier to execute) is one way of taking the pressure off yourself and passing it onto a team mate via the mark on the half back flank and then kick it back 15-20 metres to a player on the point post who then cannot clear it from the backline and hence a turnover and then a goal to the opposition. Who gets the clanger for that one? Watch how many times the saints and the saints do it.Unfortunately your good work will be lost on quite a few of the witless posters on here. The other one to be mentioned is that the saints skill level and lack of confidence wont allow them to use handball for creative effect to get the ball out of the backline in clean fashion and into the safe hands of a midfielder. Once again only those who know a bit about the game would observe this on game day and then be able to contribute to an informed discussion.

[Clayton Davis]

How many opp boards do you troll chico?

The commitment is phenomenal.

Whats the problem dragit? You don't like the discussion I put forward.

Nah I dig it, just wondering how many boards you do this on?

Don't know how you CBF'd TBH.

"Don't know how you CBF'd TBH."

You might have to explain this one to me, no idea what it means.


I can call you something a bit nastier than a troll if you want to go down that path....

Sheeeiiittt partner!!! Clay, he lourves hiz Mechican bruthers, but sheeeiiittt Chico!!! Clay shakes iz heyad in dizbelievment. Lyghten youall up sum man. Put sum o' dem cheil peils in yawl's next taco. Heh heh.

Dat dragginit dude, he iz yawl's biggest fay-yan man!!!

'CBF'd' iz complymenin youall's persayverance n' determynation.
'TBH' iz a furtha' expresshion o' admireation fo' youall's dilygency, deescribing i-yat az bein 'totally bithcin' hotttt!!!'

Iz dere anythings else dat Clay ken do yawl fore brutha'? Coz Clayz, hezzz heya ta help.

[Scollop]

I can call you something a bit nastier than a troll if you want to go down that path....


The saints forum is lucky enough to have me all to themselves..


Your last 2 posts have basically been riddles and with no input on the subject matter, why is that?

You go your hardest, call me anything you like… I'm sure the majority of saints fans feel really lucky to have you on here continually s*** canning every single part of the club with every post.

I'm the riddler, so GAGF.

I would like to insult you but with your intelligence you wouldn't get offended...….

Intelligent people would know that if they tried google they'd work out what the acronyms CBF and TBH mean

If you use the internet, I highly recommend you try googling before showing your ignorance

[chico2001]

I can call you something a bit nastier than a troll if you want to go down that path....


The saints forum is lucky enough to have me all to themselves..


Your last 2 posts have basically been riddles and with no input on the subject matter, why is that?

You go your hardest, call me anything you like… I'm sure the majority of saints fans feel really lucky to have you on here continually s*** canning every single part of the club with every post.

I'm the riddler, so GAGF.

I would like to insult you but with your intelligence you wouldn't get offended...….

Intelligent people would know that if they tried google they'd work out what the acronyms CBF and TBH mean

If you use the internet, I highly recommend you try googling before showing your ignorance

I highly recommend you keep your gob out of it "skinner", fence sitting piece of dog Sh*t. Google that and let me know what it means seeing that you are on good terms with acronyms and slang terms...;


BTW, would like to catch up with you at one of the home games and see what you would say to my face. Another keyboard smart c**nt

<banned>

[Scollop]

I don't go to many Collingwood home games

[chico2001]

I don't go to many Collingwood home games

aah...skinner, don't worry about that. Rd 9 at the G. No excuses DS

<banned>

[saintspremiers]

He’s another plodder as someone else mentioned like Dunny and Lonie.

We had a fantastic cleanout this year and I guess you can’t successfully clean out all the strugglers in one year.

[chico2001]

As the recruiting gets better and younger players hopefully improve then the average type players will drop off until the side is competitive and can make the 8

[spiral3]

He and Clavarino were doing a lot of small group defence training with Gears.