Daniel McKenzie

[resaintlee]

I thought both his and Long’s early games were the highlights of the year. If his disposal seems slightly slow then it must be the time he takes to ensure accuracy.
I’ve always been a fan and am pleased he has really stepped up this year where I would hope he can begin to feel more comfortable in the team to play with the flair he has displayed.
Fox played an old game when Gilbert was onto everything and I thought at the time that may be where Daniel is headed....hopefully.

[Viscount Jeremiah]

I like him but his disposal is fairly average and conservative, unsure if he can improve that to a level required. Defensive skills, marking and run are very good but lacks some polish at this stage.

Don't understand why people think his disposal is poor or average. He was ranked FIRST for effective disposals this year (minimum 5 games played for the year). I don't think he is conservative either as he's one of the few players on our list that when he gets the ball, he immediately looks forward to get the offense going.

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_ ... t=LA&st=EP

The effective disposal % stat isn't worth much if it's looked at in isolation, a backwards handball is an effective disposal.

I want to see DMAC hitting targets under pressure 40m away on the run. Even when these are missed they count as effective unless it results in a direct turn over.

[Scollop]

I like him but his disposal is fairly average and conservative, unsure if he can improve that to a level required. Defensive skills, marking and run are very good but lacks some polish at this stage.

Don't understand why people think his disposal is poor or average. He was ranked FIRST for effective disposals this year (minimum 5 games played for the year). I don't think he is conservative either as he's one of the few players on our list that when he gets the ball, he immediately looks forward to get the offense going.

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_ ... t=LA&st=EP

The effective disposal % stat isn't worth much if it's looked at in isolation, a backwards handball is an effective disposal.

I want to see DMAC hitting targets under pressure 40m away on the run. Even when these are missed they count as effective unless it results in a direct turn over.

Do you honestly think DMac got 10th in our b&f by just doing dinky handballs backwards or kicking it forward and missing his targets?

Actually...come to think of it...the coaches rate Seb Ross highly so perhaps you are right

I reckon DMac has shown enough to be worthy of a regular spot in our best 22. If he works hard at it he'll keep improving

[SaintPav]

From where I see it, his hardness means he is part of the future but he will never have the tools to be a gun. Has no X factor.

[Saint wagga]

I think Mackenzie looks like with growing confidence, he can improve his descion making...there is a bit of Isaac smith about him...like others have said, our shite structures, lack of enough quality senior players left a real confidence void which affected pretty much everyone’s disposal and descion making...hopefully will be better next year!

[Saint wagga]

From where I see it, his hardness means he is part of the future but he will never have the tools to be a gun. Has no X factor.

I reckon his high marking has a bit of X factor saint pav

[chico2001]

I like him but his disposal is fairly average and conservative, unsure if he can improve that to a level required. Defensive skills, marking and run are very good but lacks some polish at this stage.

Don't understand why people think his disposal is poor or average. He was ranked FIRST for effective disposals this year (minimum 5 games played for the year). I don't think he is conservative either as he's one of the few players on our list that when he gets the ball, he immediately looks forward to get the offense going.

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_ ... t=LA&st=EP

This where stats are totally misleading. Saints and WCE had 3 each in the top 10......hello….!!!!! Carlisle even got in there and his main disposal method was a dinky 10-15 m pass which was useless.

[outside66]

I like him but his disposal is fairly average and conservative, unsure if he can improve that to a level required. Defensive skills, marking and run are very good but lacks some polish at this stage.

Don't understand why people think his disposal is poor or average. He was ranked FIRST for effective disposals this year (minimum 5 games played for the year). I don't think he is conservative either as he's one of the few players on our list that when he gets the ball, he immediately looks forward to get the offense going.

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_ ... t=LA&st=EP

This where stats are totally misleading. Saints and WCE had 3 each in the top 10......hello….!!!!! Carlisle even got in there and his main disposal method was a dinky 10-15 m pass which was useless.

At least they aren't turn overs. WCE seem to do alright btw...

[chico2001]

I like him but his disposal is fairly average and conservative, unsure if he can improve that to a level required. Defensive skills, marking and run are very good but lacks some polish at this stage.

Don't understand why people think his disposal is poor or average. He was ranked FIRST for effective disposals this year (minimum 5 games played for the year). I don't think he is conservative either as he's one of the few players on our list that when he gets the ball, he immediately looks forward to get the offense going.

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_ ... t=LA&st=EP

This where stats are totally misleading. Saints and WCE had 3 each in the top 10......hello….!!!!! Carlisle even got in there and his main disposal method was a dinky 10-15 m pass which was useless.

At least they aren't turn overs. WCE seem to do alright btw...

No they are not but it gives the opposition oodles of time to set up to defend, not only only that it puts the receiver of the dinky kick under presssure and eventually there is a turnover. Just watching one or two games will tell you that. WCE do alright do they? I would not have known that.

Like I said, meaningless stats being used to justify an argument.

[Spinner]

From where I see it, his hardness means he is part of the future but he will never have the tools to be a gun. Has no X factor.

I reckon his high marking has a bit of X factor saint pav

Agree.

[Spinner]

I like him but his disposal is fairly average and conservative, unsure if he can improve that to a level required. Defensive skills, marking and run are very good but lacks some polish at this stage.

Don't understand why people think his disposal is poor or average. He was ranked FIRST for effective disposals this year (minimum 5 games played for the year). I don't think he is conservative either as he's one of the few players on our list that when he gets the ball, he immediately looks forward to get the offense going.

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_ ... t=LA&st=EP

This where stats are totally misleading. Saints and WCE had 3 each in the top 10......hello….!!!!! Carlisle even got in there and his main disposal method was a dinky 10-15 m pass which was useless.

I reckon Carlisle is a beautiful kick and backs himself in with adventurous kicks too from the backline.

We must be watching different teams...

[chico2001]

I like him but his disposal is fairly average and conservative, unsure if he can improve that to a level required. Defensive skills, marking and run are very good but lacks some polish at this stage.

Don't understand why people think his disposal is poor or average. He was ranked FIRST for effective disposals this year (minimum 5 games played for the year). I don't think he is conservative either as he's one of the few players on our list that when he gets the ball, he immediately looks forward to get the offense going.

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_ ... t=LA&st=EP

This where stats are totally misleading. Saints and WCE had 3 each in the top 10......hello….!!!!! Carlisle even got in there and his main disposal method was a dinky 10-15 m pass which was useless.

I reckon Carlisle is a beautiful kick and backs himself in with adventurous kicks too from the backline.

We must be watching different teams...

You must have been watching him when he played with Essendon...

[outside66]

I like him but his disposal is fairly average and conservative, unsure if he can improve that to a level required. Defensive skills, marking and run are very good but lacks some polish at this stage.

Don't understand why people think his disposal is poor or average. He was ranked FIRST for effective disposals this year (minimum 5 games played for the year). I don't think he is conservative either as he's one of the few players on our list that when he gets the ball, he immediately looks forward to get the offense going.

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_ ... t=LA&st=EP

This where stats are totally misleading. Saints and WCE had 3 each in the top 10......hello….!!!!! Carlisle even got in there and his main disposal method was a dinky 10-15 m pass which was useless.

I reckon Carlisle is a beautiful kick and backs himself in with adventurous kicks too from the backline.

We must be watching different teams...

Totally agree spinner. Some would rather go the half empty route

[outside66]

I like him but his disposal is fairly average and conservative, unsure if he can improve that to a level required. Defensive skills, marking and run are very good but lacks some polish at this stage.

Don't understand why people think his disposal is poor or average. He was ranked FIRST for effective disposals this year (minimum 5 games played for the year). I don't think he is conservative either as he's one of the few players on our list that when he gets the ball, he immediately looks forward to get the offense going.

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_ ... t=LA&st=EP

This where stats are totally misleading. Saints and WCE had 3 each in the top 10......hello….!!!!! Carlisle even got in there and his main disposal method was a dinky 10-15 m pass which was useless.

At least they aren't turn overs. WCE seem to do alright btw...

No they are not but it gives the opposition oodles of time to set up to defend, not only only that it puts the receiver of the dinky kick under presssure and eventually there is a turnover. Just watching one or two games will tell you that. WCE do alright do they? I would not have known that.

Like I said, meaningless stats being used to justify an argument.

D-Mac takes the game on mate (as does Carlisle). Watch the last QTR against the suns or the game against Melbourne at the G this year and you'll see that a lot his touches are setting up the play. If people want to harp on about his average disposal then I think being rated number 1 in efficient disposals is pretty meaningful in that argument... Like Spinner said, we must be watching different games.

Also, you're the one using WCE as an example of having 3 in the top ten so I reckon that's a compliment to our mob as Hurn, Schofield, and Sheppard are pretty handy players. I think it's exciting to see Coffield in the top ten and at least Browny doesn't waste his 9 disposals!

[chico2001]

I like him but his disposal is fairly average and conservative, unsure if he can improve that to a level required. Defensive skills, marking and run are very good but lacks some polish at this stage.

Don't understand why people think his disposal is poor or average. He was ranked FIRST for effective disposals this year (minimum 5 games played for the year). I don't think he is conservative either as he's one of the few players on our list that when he gets the ball, he immediately looks forward to get the offense going.

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_ ... t=LA&st=EP

This where stats are totally misleading. Saints and WCE had 3 each in the top 10......hello….!!!!! Carlisle even got in there and his main disposal method was a dinky 10-15 m pass which was useless.

At least they aren't turn overs. WCE seem to do alright btw...

No they are not but it gives the opposition oodles of time to set up to defend, not only only that it puts the receiver of the dinky kick under presssure and eventually there is a turnover. Just watching one or two games will tell you that. WCE do alright do they? I would not have known that.

Like I said, meaningless stats being used to justify an argument.

D-Mac takes the game on mate (as does Carlisle). Watch the last QTR against the suns or the game against Melbourne at the G this year and you'll see that a lot his touches are setting up the play. If people want to harp on about his average disposal then I think being rated number 1 in efficient disposals is pretty meaningful in that argument... Like Spinner said, we must be watching different games.

Also, you're the one using WCE as an example of having 3 in the top ten so I reckon that's a compliment to our mob as Hurn, Schofield, and Sheppard are pretty handy players. I think it's exciting to see Coffield in the top ten and at least Browny doesn't waste his 9 disposals!

Talking about a premiership team. 2nd, 7th , 8th and premiers the last 4 years, there is no comparison and no compliments mate. Paint it anyway you want but these saints players need to improve their disposal. I am certainly not going to base their efforts on 2 games especially one against the suns. No-one has said they don't set up play, they just don't do it well enough.

[vacuous space]

In terms of metres gained per disposal, DMac would seem to be among our more conservative defenders:

Shane Savage 18.48
Jimmy Webster 16.11
Bailey Rice 16.07
Brandon White 15.86
Sam Gilbert 15.08
Logan Austin 13.03
Daniel McKenzie 12.48
Jarryn Geary 11.68
Jake Carlisle 10.37
Nathan Brown 9.2

[chico2001]

In terms of metres gained per disposal, DMac would seem to be among our more conservative defenders:

Shane Savage 18.48
Jimmy Webster 16.11
Bailey Rice 16.07
Brandon White 15.86
Sam Gilbert 15.08
Logan Austin 13.03
Daniel McKenzie 12.48
Jarryn Geary 11.68
Jake Carlisle 10.37
Nathan Brown 9.2

Metres gained is always a handy stat. Most people on the forum don't think much of savage, I like him for his metres gained and he is a good kick and used as " runaround " kick for goal from 50m out, one of the few saints that can do that although some would say he wastes the ball. Note Carlisle's metres, very poor as I said, dinky rubbish kicks that go 10-15 metres really let his game down. Webster generally always kicks long. Unless the backline improves then it will be a long season again, hopefully Roberton comes back in because he can make a difference. Mckenzie should get better this year as per organic improvement. I don't see many stars in that list, Carlisle being the best by a margin.

[dragit]

How many opp boards do you troll chico?

The commitment is phenomenal.

[Ghost Like]

Whilst St Kilda does have a few that can butcher the ball without pressure, I don't think poor disposal, metres gained (or lack of) can be solely placed with the individual.
Factors include, opposition defensive work rate and system to set up and shut down, our own players work rate ahead of the ball...one half arsed lead up won't cut it. They need to show a willingness to overlap, to continue moving ahead of the ball and develop, then trust in a system (Roo was this for over a decade). Pressure will always be on our defenders if those up the ground do not work hard when we have the ball.
I rate McKenzie and firmly believe when he, Coffield, Clark, Paton etc are all in that 50 to 100 game bracket, the knock as it relates now will be obsolete.

[kosifantutti]

In terms of metres gained per disposal, DMac would seem to be among our more conservative defenders:

Shane Savage 18.48
Jimmy Webster 16.11
Bailey Rice 16.07
Brandon White 15.86
Sam Gilbert 15.08
Logan Austin 13.03
Daniel McKenzie 12.48
Jarryn Geary 11.68
Jake Carlisle 10.37
Nathan Brown 9.2

Interesting stats. I’ve never seen them before. Where do you get them?

[takeaway]

In terms of metres gained per disposal, DMac would seem to be among our more conservative defenders:

Shane Savage 18.48
Jimmy Webster 16.11
Bailey Rice 16.07
Brandon White 15.86
Sam Gilbert 15.08
Logan Austin 13.03
Daniel McKenzie 12.48
Jarryn Geary 11.68
Jake Carlisle 10.37
Nathan Brown 9.2

Metres gained is always a handy stat. Most people on the forum don't think much of savage, I like him for his metres gained and he is a good kick and used as " runaround " kick for goal from 50m out, one of the few saints that can do that although some would say he wastes the ball. Note Carlisle's metres, very poor as I said, dinky rubbish kicks that go 10-15 metres really let his game down. Webster generally always kicks long. Unless the backline improves then it will be a long season again, hopefully Roberton comes back in because he can make a difference. Mckenzie should get better this year as per organic improvement. I don't see many stars in that list, Carlisle being the best by a margin.

Using stats when discussing players is fair enough but imo metres gained, particularly used in isolation is quite irrelevant. At the most it probably just helps to identify outside players. Shane Savage could bomb the ball all day, straight to opposition players and record excellent metres gained stats. Jake Carlisle could do a little dinky kick backwards to Savage in the clear, who then kicks it 50m - Savage gets 50m gain and Carlisle a negative, yet he started the move forward. A 50 kick ACROSS the ground to a teammate in the clear gets minimal metres gained to the player who kicked it, yet often those kicks are lauded by the critics. I don't think its Carlisle's job to gain metres, as a tall player, his job is to mark, or get it down and out to a faster teammate, either by handball or even a dinky little kick sideways, to start a real move forward. I don't see his little kicks as a weakness, as long as they are accurate.

I am not a fan of stats, and you really need to put a few together to get some sort of value.

[vacuous space]

Interesting stats. I’ve never seen them before. Where do you get them?

Metres gained / Disposals

[Spinner]

In terms of metres gained per disposal, DMac would seem to be among our more conservative defenders:

Shane Savage 18.48
Jimmy Webster 16.11
Bailey Rice 16.07
Brandon White 15.86
Sam Gilbert 15.08
Logan Austin 13.03
Daniel McKenzie 12.48
Jarryn Geary 11.68
Jake Carlisle 10.37
Nathan Brown 9.2

Metres gained is always a handy stat. Most people on the forum don't think much of savage, I like him for his metres gained and he is a good kick and used as " runaround " kick for goal from 50m out, one of the few saints that can do that although some would say he wastes the ball. Note Carlisle's metres, very poor as I said, dinky rubbish kicks that go 10-15 metres really let his game down. Webster generally always kicks long. Unless the backline improves then it will be a long season again, hopefully Roberton comes back in because he can make a difference. Mckenzie should get better this year as per organic improvement. I don't see many stars in that list, Carlisle being the best by a margin.

Meters gained is misleading - terrible players are much more likely to bomb it long for a turnover. Especially out of the backline.

Carlisles kicks aren't dinky - he's got confidence in his kicking and hits targets. Bombing it long is less risk.

[outside66]

I like him but his disposal is fairly average and conservative, unsure if he can improve that to a level required. Defensive skills, marking and run are very good but lacks some polish at this stage.

Don't understand why people think his disposal is poor or average. He was ranked FIRST for effective disposals this year (minimum 5 games played for the year). I don't think he is conservative either as he's one of the few players on our list that when he gets the ball, he immediately looks forward to get the offense going.

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_ ... t=LA&st=EP

This where stats are totally misleading. Saints and WCE had 3 each in the top 10......hello….!!!!! Carlisle even got in there and his main disposal method was a dinky 10-15 m pass which was useless.

At least they aren't turn overs. WCE seem to do alright btw...

No they are not but it gives the opposition oodles of time to set up to defend, not only only that it puts the receiver of the dinky kick under presssure and eventually there is a turnover. Just watching one or two games will tell you that. WCE do alright do they? I would not have known that.

Like I said, meaningless stats being used to justify an argument.

D-Mac takes the game on mate (as does Carlisle). Watch the last QTR against the suns or the game against Melbourne at the G this year and you'll see that a lot his touches are setting up the play. If people want to harp on about his average disposal then I think being rated number 1 in efficient disposals is pretty meaningful in that argument... Like Spinner said, we must be watching different games.

Also, you're the one using WCE as an example of having 3 in the top ten so I reckon that's a compliment to our mob as Hurn, Schofield, and Sheppard are pretty handy players. I think it's exciting to see Coffield in the top ten and at least Browny doesn't waste his 9 disposals!

Talking about a premiership team. 2nd, 7th , 8th and premiers the last 4 years, there is no comparison and no compliments mate. Paint it anyway you want but these saints players need to improve their disposal. I am certainly not going to base their efforts on 2 games especially one against the suns. No-one has said they don't set up play, they just don't do it well enough.

God you're boring.

[chico2001]

How many opp boards do you troll chico?

The commitment is phenomenal.

Whats the problem dragit? You don't like the discussion I put forward.