Max King in our thinking

[saynta]

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/ ... 823dc3cde8

"AFL draft guru Kevin Sheehan says the key forward St Kilda is considering with pick No.4 has shown the same special traits as superstars Tom Lynch and Joe Daniher.

The Saints will have a series of meetings this week in the lead-up to Thursday night to settle on its preferred target with pick No.4 in the national draft.

Alan Richardson’s men have some glaring midfield needs, but have been eyeing Bayside local and 204cm goalkicker Max King all season.


If he slips past St Kilda in favour of gun midfield prospects Connor Rozee (North Adelaide), Bailey Smith (Sandringham Dragons) or Jye Caldwell (Bendigo Pioneers), King will almost certainly head to the Power at pick No.5.

It shapes as a huge call for a new-look St Kilda football department, including national recruiting manager Tom Liberatore and new list boss James Gallagher.

Sheehan, who heads the AFL’s talent identification department, said King had tremendous athletic qualities and could pull down big marks at full reach like Lynch and Daniher.

“He (Max) is a boy that is pretty special,” Sheehan said.


“He’s quick and agile. He is not just your big-bodied tall forward who has one trick like a big strong mark that plays inside 50m.

“He gets around the ground magnificently, so it’s his athletic ability and his marking at the highest point (that is the difference).

“It reminds us of Tom Lynch at the Tigers, that type of guy.”

However, there is a trend in club land to focus more on top-end midfield talent in the first round of the draft in recent years.

Some of the talls taken early in the first round of the past few drafts are still establishing themselves at AFL level, including No.2 pick Josh Schache (Bulldogs) and No.1 picks Jacob Weitering (Carlton) and Paddy McCartin (St Kilda).

St Kilda great Leigh Montagna said it was a high-stakes move taking a 200cm key position player with such an early draft pick.
Identical twins Max (left) and Ben King are both expected to be top-10 picks on Thursday night. Picture: Michael Klein

“I’m just wondering whether clubs are now taking a set against the risk of taking a key forward, and instead, just take a gun mid with your top pick,” Montagna said on Triple M.

“You know you are going to get a bona fide good AFL player.

“I’m a bit nervous (about that pick) because St Kilda don’t necessarily need the key position players. I’d rather take the best midfielder in the draft.”

King tore his anterior cruciate ligament in April but has made outstanding progress in his recovery, training alongside his identical 202cm twin brother Ben in recent weeks.

They are set to be the first set of twins taken inside the top-10 of the national draft.

Sheehan said both had bright football careers ahead of them.

“These boys are ready to step up and play,” Sheehan said.

“It’s their speed and agility that sets them apart.

“They’re very worthy of top-five (choices).”

[evertonfc]

To me, King is the best available, and there's no settling in period with him.

We're over-stocked for tall forwards, but McCartin's body means we have no idea what will happen there and I'm happy to see Josh Bruce return to defence in the coming years. Compensates for the fact that Hugh didn't come on.

Gresham probably has to go into the midfield either this year or next, added to Clark and Coffield, and a few others.

Rozee and Smith look really good players (obviously) and I'd like them both, but we're looking long-term here and Max King does stand out.

And if our forward line ever did sort itself out, I wouldn't be surprised if King ends up as a ruckman. At 204cm, he's three centimetres taller than Hickey and Longer (for example) with superior athleticism to both. That's closer to Max Gawn territory IMO.

[saintadamski]

Another key forward??
Why the hell is McCartin still on the list then?

The Saints need speedy skilled mids...end of story

[evertonfc]

Ironically, I'm so impressed with the flexibility of Ben King as a swingman.

Hopefully getting Max will enable us to push hard to snap up Ben in a few years.

[magnifisaint]

Sheahan knows his s***. If reckons Max King is that special then we should take him.
EOS

[Moods]

“He’s quick and agile. He is not just your big-bodied tall forward who has one trick like a big strong mark that plays inside 50m.

This stood out to me. For many reasons

[fugazi]

Ironically, I'm so impressed with the flexibility of Ben King as a swingman.

Hopefully getting Max will enable us to push hard to snap up Ben in a few years.

I haven't really heard why Max is so universally thought to be better than Ben, especially when Ben has no injury cloud over him and is more flexible in his positioning.
Can someone enlighten me?

[DJ Higgins]

Max is slightly taller even though they are twins (Ben not as healthy as a baby i read)
Max is a forward and has honed his game on this position, Ben a swingman so good at either end but not amazing
Forwards are viewed as being more valuable than backs this season. i.e. Carlton need mids not talls, suns need both, we don't need a defender hence Ben's lower value
Max is a marking machine. Helps that he is 200cm+ plus and marks the ball better than Ben. i.e. better timing on his jumps although both are good, Max better.
Neither are overly accurate with their goal kicking to be fair

[DJ Higgins]

dbl post

[Linton Lodger]

I'm all for us taking a mid, that's what our List needs. However, I'm hearing that King is a gun and many reckon his the best in the draft. He marks at a very high point, can run with speed and is athletic. Quite a combination of strong traits.

It would be brave not to take him, despite already having many key forwards on our List, then again he might be gone by our pick.

If the Club rate him as highly as others, then I reckon they'll take him at 4. If he's not there, then that would mean Lukotious or Rankine. If its Lukotious I think we'll trade picks with Port, if its Rankine who knows?

[DJ Higgins]

You have to remember that our abundance of tall forwards are average at best. None of them are good let alone great. Get King and play him in VFL for a year and build up his frame. He doesn’t have to be a tank, just harder so he can take hits.
Get outside mids with our later picks and hope they come good like Jack Steven did. If we stink next year we can get best available mid in 2019 draft. Think of the future, were we on the road to 2024

[The_Dud]

It would be interesting to see what they were saying about Paddy before his draft.

[magnifisaint]

It would be interesting to see what they were saying about Paddy before his draft.

They were saying it was a weak draft

[mordiboyz]

Take the best available talent at pick 4.

Don't use it to fill holes in our side with 2 lesser players.

[Dis Believer]

Take the best available talent at pick 4.

Don't use it to fill holes in our side with 2 lesser players.

This,

WE can always trade Paddy later, or Bruce. That picks us up extra picks in future drafts. Heck we could trade one of those two plus a second rounder for someone else's first round. There you have two first rounders in one year that you could trade to say a GWS for a Josh Kelly. Midfield problem solved.....

[Crossy66]

It would be interesting to see what they were saying about Paddy before his draft.

I have always prefered the big gun key forward, so taking max seems a no brainer.
But unfortunately the science doesn't support it. Statistically and factually, the big guys that dominated tac have not performed well at afl level, with many considered les than successful selections.
Look at brownlow voting in the modern era and very few big men feature in the top 30, generally just two or 3. Last year gawn and grundy were the two but both took a number of years to get going. Even if he is a freak, max will take a number of years.
In a draft that we just have to nail, the odds are overwhelming that we have to take early mids

[Gershwin]

It would be interesting to see what they were saying about Paddy before his draft.

From Emma Quayle:

Patrick McCartin (Geelong Falcons)

Born 19.10.1996, 193cm, 84kg

AFL biography: Tall forward who times his leads well and is a one grab player and strong overhead mark. Imposes himself on games and is dangerous around goals with accurate snaps or with his sound technique for set shots. Averaged four marks and 2.3 goals in the NAB AFL Under-18 Championships.

Michael Turner, Geelong Falcons: "Paddy is the best key forward going around, in my opinion. He's played well this year even with a few injuries, he had a quad that held him back for a few weeks. He's a Jarryd Roughead type, he's not super tall but he takes marks, he loves to push guys out of the way and he'll play next year, I've got no doubt. There's massive improvement still in him and he's a nice, extroverted kid, but in a good way. He doesn't grate, he's just happy. If the No. 1 tag comes along I think he'll deal with it really well."

[tedtheodorelogan2018]

I would be very happy if we pick Max King. Plus he has a cool name. Reminds recruiters alot of Tom Lynch.

[mordiboyz]

It would be interesting to see what they were saying about Paddy before his draft.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2014-11-22/m ... y-mccartin

NIGGLES APLENTY - Lots of little injuries slowed him down in 2014.

Because of his injuries, McCartin wasn't able to put together as consistent a season he would've hoped. The little setbacks meant he couldn't push up the ground as much, where he could have developed his running patterns further away from goal.

[Life Long Saint]

I reckon we should get King and then load up on midfielders in the rest of the draft.
Honestly, what's the gap in talent between King and the a key forward we'd get in the 2nd and 3rd rounds versus the gap in talent of Smith versus the midfielders we'd get in the 2nd & 3rd round?
I'd wager King >>>> 2nd/3rd round whereas Smith >> 2nd/3rd round.

[rodgerfox]

Unlike 2000 when the Saints selected Riewoldt and Justin Koschitzke with the first two picks, the Saints only have pick No.1 this year and Sheehan said St Kilda had a tough choice to make between McCartin and Petracca.

"If you go on performance for the year, Petracca would be the one who had the standout performances and looks like he's going to be a 200-game player as well," Sheehan said.

"Paddy McCartin actually had some setbacks with a few injuries during the year so we didn't see him at his absolute best.

"They're different types. One [Petracca] is the powerful Dustin Martin [or] Ollie Wines midfield-type.

"McCartin is like a big Tomahawk [Tom Hawkins], [a] big powerful boy who will take you a little bit of time, they might be arguing a couple of years, before he starts to emerge with that real physical presence up on the forward line at AFL level.

"They both look to be elite talents and it will be a tough call for the Saints."


Sheehan believed Petracca, McCartin, ruckman Peter Wright and midfielders Angus Brayshaw and Jarrod Pickett would, in no particular order, be this year's top five draft picks.

[DJ Higgins]

Bottom line is paddy needs to step up this year and all will be forgiven. If we get king then the extra pressure might push him in the right direction. But don't forget king won't play for a while he is slight and needs some endurance training

[Crossy66]

I reckon we should get King and then load up on midfielders in the rest of the draft.
Honestly, what's the gap in talent between King and the a key forward we'd get in the 2nd and 3rd rounds versus the gap in talent of Smith versus the midfielders we'd get in the 2nd & 3rd round?
I'd wager King >>>> 2nd/3rd round whereas Smith >> 2nd/3rd round.

It would seem you are on the money unless we grab another 1st rounder using next year's 1st. The only other variation will be if gc take max

[Cairnsman]

Getting the best midfielder is strategy no. 1.

Take it to the bank.

[Devilhead]

Getting the best midfielder is strategy no. 1.

Take it to the bank.

So who's the best midfielder?

Walsh / Smith / Caldwell?