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Yorkeys wrote: ↑Sun 04 Nov 2018 1:41pm
So maybe like preparing for the Cup put a lot more energy and planning into beating Collingwood, Essendon and one of Richmond and Hawthorn during the season. Then you get the consequential media attention and appreciation from the bookies. Give those big boys a real contest and piggyback them into the higher tier fixtures. Trade offs involved against other also rans but if economic considerations trump overall season winning then perhaps you prime players for certain games and use well researched tactics. Remember Terry Wallace. No finals but a few good bragging rights. Well maybe a couple of finals.
Doesn't matter.
You get prime spots, if you can fill the joint every year.
We can't. Never have, and never will.
It's just the way it is. It's the system.
If people don't like it, follow a different sport.
This I disagree with.
I think we could if we had a proper off-field management with an excellent, well thought out long term strategy. I don’t know that we have or have ever had that
Possibly. But to outgrow clubs that are given primetime by 40000-50000 supporters won't happen in my lifetime, and almost certainly not in my 8yo's lifetime either.
Even if our supporter base grew by 5000 per year more than any of the 'big 5' clubs', we'd be looking at 15 years before we're even with them.
And how likely is it that we'd somehow see that type of growth, whilst big clubs with huge historical supporter bases and primetime TV slots and huge media exposure don't grow at all?
North won two flags, dominated the comp for a decade and had the best player in the comp - and it didn't do s*** for them.
Just to be clear, this isn't a whinge. It is what it is.
The 'system' has realistically kept the Saints in existence. However, people need to manage their expectations.
Just caught up on this post and seems there is a real distaste for me stating our presentation to Shiel was poor.
Let me give you some facts, it was poor in the sense that we offered him the most money and some $3.5m more than Essendon and let me assure you we ran last in the 4 club pitch process.
Shiel was considered mid year to be joining Hawthorn then it was a close call between Essendon and Carlton in the end.
We ran last even though we had the most money on offer.
Our club is really hard sell at the moment given our performances, our lack of big games, our overall financial position, and our long history without success.
Other facts I can guarantee you, Richo wasn't at the pitch.
I am not Mark Fine nor Molly Meldrum.
And yes I am disappointed and frustrated where our club is at right now.
I apologise if my opinion offends people however I also give facts about what I know and see and hear and if you don't want them shared happy not to.
Ignore the muppets, Jaxons.
I bet most of these sycophants voted for Footy First and are too clueless to see how complicit they are in where the club is at right now.
ST KILDA concedes it didn't know the full extent of prized recruit Dan Hannebery's struggles with his body when it traded for him.
saynta wrote: ↑Fri 09 Nov 2018 10:43pm
I saw somewhere where it was stated that it was a very close call between the Drug cheats and us.
Oh yeah, I remember it was in the podcaste with Gallagher.
Tough choice. DO I believe an ITK or a senior club official who was involved in the actual discussions/negotiations.
Completely untrue Saynta and not sure James ever said that by the way.
We also pitched to Jordan Murdoch.....this is what he said yesterday.
Murdoch, 26, was wanted by St Kilda, but chose the Suns after being “blown away” by coach Stuart Dew.
“I did meet with the Saints, did a medical and had really good conversations with (list manager) James Gallagher and Alan Richardson … it was definitely an option and Em and I talked about it for hours and hours.
“It was a very tough decision, I can’t stress that enough, but at the end of the day I’m really excited to get up to the Gold Coast.
samuraisaint wrote: ↑Fri 09 Nov 2018 11:27pm
Yep - our presentation to Jordan Murdoch was sub par.
He is obviously being diplomatic but this is a problem.
Let me tell you we really wanted Murdoch, god knows why but we did.
But to get beaten by the Suns in the selling of a club to join underlines where we are at.
Personally, I think the proof is in the pudding. We’ve stated over and over again that we were/are going to be big players in the off-season... by and large we’ve failed to secure major FA / trade targets over several years.
This off season we got Hannebery and whilst he is a good get at a good price, he comes with questions marks and didn’t seem to attract a lot of interest.
Put whatever slant on it you want but we haven’t been able to accomplish the goals that we’ve publicly set with regards to talent acquisition. In light of that I think there’s truth in what Jax says versus the spin coming from the club.
And for what it’s worth Jax, I hope you keep posting despite what the haters of free speech keep throwing at you
Ha yeah so Dew talked crap and lied to Murdoch that he will get more midfield time and he is central to their plans- nice one - dodged a bullet either way
Still no explanation/description ad to why our pitch to Shiel was terrible .- just that Shiel didn't choose us so it must have been terrible
Just because we offered him the most amount of money doesn't mean our pitch was a disaster - maybe it was a great pitch but he had his heart set on Essendon .... only Shiel knows - obviously money is not an issue
Weather on the Gold Coast is warmer than Moorabbin and there you don't really have to try hard - good money, not a lot of pressure, cheaper housing too. Nice situation for a middling mid. Essendon can set Shiel up well after footy, plenty of wealthy supporters that would have promised him something nice. Nevertheless he may regret refusing the bird in the hand offer and find that the Bombers substance intake program has long term effects that causes memory loss when he hangs up his boots. The story that the Saints recruitment team can't put together a good presentation is difficult to accept however Alan's coaching record and industry reputation amongst players may be significant negatives together with the looming possibility that he won't be around long term so any assurances he gives would have to be heavily discounted. Later next year FAs will be queuing up to come to the Saints.
Didn't the Suns offer a 3 year contract vs 2 by Saints? And more money? Isn't his brother playing up at Southport?
If so, I would think these issues might have something to do with the decision.
Re Shiel, Jaxons latest post doesn't say we made a terrible pitch, but the club, being down the ladder, etc, is not in a good position to attract players. Fairly logical, probably why he chose Essendon over Carlton anyway. Shiel has said every club made a good presentation, but, true, what else can he say.
Glad we didn't get either, Shiel too expensive in draft picks and not worth the huge money, and would affect future contract dealings at the club. Couple of good players at the draft, settle in more with Moorabbin as a home base, shift up the ladder a bit next year would increase our chances of landing players. Bringing in one A grader has not achieved the results desired for any club, ie Franklin, Dangerfield, even Treloar didn't quite get there. I would prefer trying for a couple of B+, A- players like Prestia rather than one very costly A grader.
So why did Hannerbrey and Kent come?
We must have impressed them and our pitches were obviously very good...because they actually were.
Murdoch was pretty much leaning to St Kilda (due to being based in Melbourne) but after meeting Dew he opted for the Suns instead. His words, but he obviously chose the Suns for a number of reasons, not just because of their coach and St Kilda. He will get more money and the chance to extend his career much longer at a terrible expansion club and side. At his age, he made the right choice. Plus we don't need Murdoch and its not a miss IMO.
As for Shiel, he was still considering all 4 clubs up until the day he chose Essendon. Fact. I find it very hard to believe an opinion that our pitch to Shiel was awful, especially when the likes of Lethlean, Riewoldt, Hannerbrey, Gallagher, etc. were involved. But everyone is entitled to an opinion.
Anyway, bring on the draft and the recruitment of Gubby Allan will make our pitches A grade next off season. Time to positively look forward, not backwards and the last off season was a good learning curve for the likes of Lethlean and Gallagher.
Posters that have admitted they were wrong about Hanna's gastro and the club didn't create a cover story.
Total = 1.
jaxons wrote: ↑Fri 09 Nov 2018 10:01pm
Just caught up on this post and seems there is a real distaste for me stating our presentation to Shiel was poor.
Let me give you some facts, it was poor in the sense that we offered him the most money and some $3.5m more than Essendon and let me assure you we ran last in the 4 club pitch process.
Shiel was considered mid year to be joining Hawthorn then it was a close call between Essendon and Carlton in the end.
We ran last even though we had the most money on offer.
Our club is really hard sell at the moment given our performances, our lack of big games, our overall financial position, and our long history without success.
Other facts I can guarantee you, Richo wasn't at the pitch.
I am not Mark Fine nor Molly Meldrum.
And yes I am disappointed and frustrated where our club is at right now.
I apologise if my opinion offends people however I also give facts about what I know and see and hear and if you don't want them shared happy not to.
Given that I'm one of the main 'objectors' to your initial post I'm struggling to understand this current post.
Your original post was not a fact but your opinion based on the final outcome?
If so I apologise for my angst because I misunderstood you were stating a fact.
I have no problem with you expressing an opinion - I just don't happen to agree with it in this case.
But if you could do me one small favour.
In future when you post 'tidbits' of information please make it clear for idiots like me when you are posting facts and when you are posting your opinion.
Thanks in advance
saynta wrote: ↑Fri 09 Nov 2018 10:43pm
I saw somewhere where it was stated that it was a very close call between the Drug cheats and us.
Oh yeah, I remember it was in the podcaste with Gallagher.
Tough choice. DO I believe an ITK or a senior club official who was involved in the actual discussions/negotiations.
Completely untrue Saynta and not sure James ever said that by the way.
We also pitched to Jordan Murdoch.....this is what he said yesterday.
Murdoch, 26, was wanted by St Kilda, but chose the Suns after being “blown away” by coach Stuart Dew.
“I did meet with the Saints, did a medical and had really good conversations with (list manager) James Gallagher and Alan Richardson … it was definitely an option and Em and I talked about it for hours and hours.
“It was a very tough decision, I can’t stress that enough, but at the end of the day I’m really excited to get up to the Gold Coast.
Callum Twomey states that he had been talking to Dylan that week and he had stated that he had considered the Saints "very strongly" and that it was a close call in the end to select the Bombers.
James for his part said that the club can "be very proud in the way we approached it" and that the clubs presentation was "very professional."
So I guess I don't accept your "version" of events.
Last edited by saynta on Sat 10 Nov 2018 10:30am, edited 2 times in total.
saynta wrote: ↑Fri 09 Nov 2018 10:43pm
I saw somewhere where it was stated that it was a very close call between the Drug cheats and us.
Oh yeah, I remember it was in the podcaste with Gallagher.
Tough choice. DO I believe an ITK or a senior club official who was involved in the actual discussions/negotiations.
Yes that is true Saynta. It was a 2 horse race in the end so Jaxon is wrong on that score and the money Shiel will be receiving (not being paid by the club), will be around the mark to what we offered. He is right though about the big club fantasy possibly being one factor tipping the scale in the Bombers direction. And so I wan't to talk to this latter point in more detail. We aren't one of the rich power clubs, never have been probably never will be, Jaxon comes across as though he has a chip on his shoulder about this point so I'd just like to highlight this point so people don't misconstrue his opinion, yes it's only an opinion when he complains about our club being a really hard sell. Jaxon also sounds like he has a chip on his shoulder that the club can't miraculously turn itself into a rich power club overnight.
But be free thinking when you are deciding to hate or not to hate when you read opinions from ITKs like Jaxons, try and remember how much harder the admin team have to work even without value add sweeteners like big game day experiences. We are who we are. Envy will destroy your enjoyment of the club.
samuraisaint wrote: ↑Fri 09 Nov 2018 11:27pm
Yep - our presentation to Jordan Murdoch was sub par.
He is obviously being diplomatic but this is a problem.
Let me tell you we really wanted Murdoch, god knows why but we did.
But to get beaten by the Suns in the selling of a club to join underlines where we are at.
Evidently we only offered a two year deal against the suns three years.
In my view it would have been totally irresponsible to offer a three year deal to a delisted player, so I am happy here. We dodged a bullet, imho.
jaxons wrote: ↑Fri 09 Nov 2018 10:01pm
Just caught up on this post and seems there is a real distaste for me stating our presentation to Shiel was poor.
Let me give you some facts, it was poor in the sense that we offered him the most money and some $3.5m more than Essendon and let me assure you we ran last in the 4 club pitch process.
Shiel was considered mid year to be joining Hawthorn then it was a close call between Essendon and Carlton in the end.
We ran last even though we had the most money on offer.
Our club is really hard sell at the moment given our performances, our lack of big games, our overall financial position, and our long history without success.
Other facts I can guarantee you, Richo wasn't at the pitch.
I am not Mark Fine nor Molly Meldrum.
And yes I am disappointed and frustrated where our club is at right now.
I apologise if my opinion offends people however I also give facts about what I know and see and hear and if you don't want them shared happy not to.
Are you Nathan Burke?
Holder of unacceptable views and other thought crimes.
Devilhead wrote: ↑Sat 10 Nov 2018 5:39am
Ha yeah so Dew talked crap and lied to Murdoch that he will get more midfield time and he is central to their plans- nice one - dodged a bullet either way
Still no explanation/description ad to why our pitch to Shiel was terrible .- just that Shiel didn't choose us so it must have been terrible
Just because we offered him the most amount of money doesn't mean our pitch was a disaster - maybe it was a great pitch but he had his heart set on Essendon .... only Shiel knows - obviously money is not an issue
Bring on the draft !!
Is that because it's the only way we can get quality to come to us
samuraisaint wrote: ↑Fri 09 Nov 2018 11:27pm
Yep - our presentation to Jordan Murdoch was sub par.
He is obviously being diplomatic but this is a problem.
Let me tell you we really wanted Murdoch, god knows why but we did.
But to get beaten by the Suns in the selling of a club to join underlines where we are at.
Evidently we only offered a two year deal against the suns three years.
In my view it would have been totally irresponsible to offer a three year deal to a delisted player, so I am happy here. We dodged a bullet, imho.
It's funny because giving lohger contracts for more money are the exact reasons WE.got Hannebery and Kent to come to us
It just depends on which colour glasses you have on at the time that gives perspective on these deals
