2019 Coaching. It's a lose-lose.

[Sainternist]

My prediction is Richardson will be sacked around the mid season bye. He's only still coach now because of the contract stipulations.

[saynta]

My prediction is Richardson will be sacked around the mid season bye. He's only still coach now because of the contract stipulations.

Good chance you are probably correct.

But then again , if we start winning a few games.....

[Sainternist]

My prediction is Richardson will be sacked around the mid season bye. He's only still coach now because of the contract stipulations.

Good chance you are probably correct.

But then again , if we start winning a few games.....

Sadly, I can't see us winning more than 2 games in the first half of the season. I hope they prove me wrong.

[Moods]

This continuous denigration of the club and its officials, in particular the coach, has to stop.

It does nothing but undermine the club and if continued and believed, will do untold damage to the club's efforts to recruit new member, imho.

Hopefully most supporters will have more sense than the "Chicken Little" brigade who have done nothing but whinge since the Nth Melbourne game.

Saints officials have made numerous changes to the list of coaches, players and support staff. All for the better I might add but the whinging goes on.....and on...and on.

If these so called "supporters " are unhappy with the club, hopefully they will piss off and support some other team.

I, for one, am sick and tired of reading their rubbish, and so i might add, or plenty of other posters.

I can only hope ( and pray ) that the players don't read this garbage.

I have just found this in the thread and applaud you for backing up your comments. I don't agree with them mind you but I now understand your view point.

This forum/website is not a club sanctioned website. It's not saints.com.au I reckon it's for more open bantering. The club have nothing to do with it in reality. People stalk the website because certain users have great insight and some have good inside knowledge. I've never viewed the forum as a cheer squad. To be honest many of the chicken little views expressed are very similar to what you'll find out in the outer each week. We all know and understand why Richo is still coaching. Doesn't mean we have to like it.

If players are on here they almost deserve what they get. They shouldn't be stalking these pages. It's not healthy whether they read good or bad about themselves. Just like it's not healthy for relatives of players to sit amongst the great unwashed. Achieves nothing.

I too am happy with some of the changes the club have made in the last 12 months - but I have NEVER seen a coach survive this kind of win/loss ratio over this period of time. I think Richo will be in our top 5 coaches for amount of games coached in the clubs history at the end of next year! That's incredible.

I too am concerned about our membership numbers next year, but this forum is the least of my worries. We start playing competitive footy and what is being said on here will not matter a jot to new members.

And to be honest the club can ill afford for supporters to 'piss off and support some other team.' We need all the support we can get, good, bad and whiney.

[sunsaint]

The truth has never been more eloquently scribed on these pages
Vote 1 Moods

[st.byron]

The truth has never been more eloquently scribed on these pages
Vote 1 Moods

Indeed. Quality post.

[samoht]

This continuous denigration of the club and its officials, in particular the coach, has to stop.

It does nothing but undermine the club and if continued and believed, will do untold damage to the club's efforts to recruit new member, imho.

Hopefully most supporters will have more sense than the "Chicken Little" brigade who have done nothing but whinge since the Nth Melbourne game.

Saints officials have made numerous changes to the list of coaches, players and support staff. All for the better I might add but the whinging goes on.....and on...and on.

If these so called "supporters " are unhappy with the club, hopefully they will piss off and support some other team.

I, for one, am sick and tired of reading their rubbish, and so i might add, or plenty of other posters.

I can only hope ( and pray ) that the players don't read this garbage.

I have just found this in the thread and applaud you for backing up your comments. I don't agree with them mind you but I now understand your view point.

This forum/website is not a club sanctioned website. It's not saints.com.au I reckon it's for more open bantering. The club have nothing to do with it in reality. People stalk the website because certain users have great insight and some have good inside knowledge. I've never viewed the forum as a cheer squad. To be honest many of the chicken little views expressed are very similar to what you'll find out in the outer each week. We all know and understand why Richo is still coaching. Doesn't mean we have to like it.

If players are on here they almost deserve what they get. They shouldn't be stalking these pages. It's not healthy whether they read good or bad about themselves. Just like it's not healthy for relatives of players to sit amongst the great unwashed. Achieves nothing.

I too am happy with some of the changes the club have made in the last 12 months - but I have NEVER seen a coach survive this kind of win/loss ratio over this period of time. I think Richo will be in our top 5 coaches for amount of games coached in the clubs history at the end of next year! That's incredible.

I too am concerned about our membership numbers next year, but this forum is the least of my worries. We start playing competitive footy and what is being said on here will not matter a jot to new members.

And to be honest the club can ill afford for supporters to 'piss off and support some other team.' We need all the support we can get, good, bad and whiney.

I accept and support our club's decision not to sack the coach.
Our club's usual/traditional knee-jerk reaction would be to sack the coach and blame it all on them. That's enough to piss off supporters as well.
This time we've taken a deep breath and considered the injuries, this year, and our relatively poorer recruiting over the years, the accumulative affect of years and years of that (relative poorer recruiting) and the impact that it's now having - apart from the draft, we haven't chased the key established big-name players - the Dangerfields, the Treloars, the Mitchells, the Burgoynes, etc. - we've chased the fringe players that were surplus to a team's needs.

[dragit]

I think Richo will be in our top 5 coaches for amount of games coached in the clubs history at the end of next year! That's incredible.

Round one he becomes our third highest, then if he survives to round 8, he becomes our second highest ever for games coached.

37 wins as it stands.

[Scollop]

It's incredible alright...enough to make Con throw up in his breakfast bowl

[spert]

This continuous denigration of the club and its officials, in particular the coach, has to stop.

It does nothing but undermine the club and if continued and believed, will do untold damage to the club's efforts to recruit new member, imho.

Hopefully most supporters will have more sense than the "Chicken Little" brigade who have done nothing but whinge since the Nth Melbourne game.

Saints officials have made numerous changes to the list of coaches, players and support staff. All for the better I might add but the whinging goes on.....and on...and on.

If these so called "supporters " are unhappy with the club, hopefully they will piss off and support some other team.

I, for one, am sick and tired of reading their rubbish, and so i might add, or plenty of other posters.

I can only hope ( and pray ) that the players don't read this garbage.

I have just found this in the thread and applaud you for backing up your comments. I don't agree with them mind you but I now understand your view point.

This forum/website is not a club sanctioned website. It's not saints.com.au I reckon it's for more open bantering. The club have nothing to do with it in reality. People stalk the website because certain users have great insight and some have good inside knowledge. I've never viewed the forum as a cheer squad. To be honest many of the chicken little views expressed are very similar to what you'll find out in the outer each week. We all know and understand why Richo is still coaching. Doesn't mean we have to like it.

If players are on here they almost deserve what they get. They shouldn't be stalking these pages. It's not healthy whether they read good or bad about themselves. Just like it's not healthy for relatives of players to sit amongst the great unwashed. Achieves nothing.

I too am happy with some of the changes the club have made in the last 12 months - but I have NEVER seen a coach survive this kind of win/loss ratio over this period of time. I think Richo will be in our top 5 coaches for amount of games coached in the clubs history at the end of next year! That's incredible.

I too am concerned about our membership numbers next year, but this forum is the least of my worries. We start playing competitive footy and what is being said on here will not matter a jot to new members.

And to be honest the club can ill afford for supporters to 'piss off and support some other team.' We need all the support we can get, good, bad and whiney.

I accept and support our club's decision not to sack the coach.
Our club's usual/traditional knee-jerk reaction would be to sack the coach and blame it all on them. That's enough to piss off supporters as well.
This time we've taken a deep breath and considered the injuries, this year, and our relatively poorer recruiting over the years, the accumulative affect of years and years of that (relative poorer recruiting) and the impact that it's now having - apart from the draft, we haven't chased the key established big-name players - the Dangerfields, the Treloars, the Mitchells, the Burgoynes, etc. - we've chased the fringe players that were surplus to a team's needs.

If Richo was suddenly sacked by the club, then it's no knee-jerk reaction. Five years in a top managerial role(head coach), with a terrible record of achievement, is not tolerable.

[samoht]

If Richo was suddenly sacked by the club, then it's no knee-jerk reaction. Five years in a top managerial role(head coach), with a terrible record of achievement, is not tolerable.

If a new coach is concomitant with a new approach to recruiting, where we will start chasing all the established big name players and drafting to our team's needs and with the team balance in mind - i.e., start doing what the successful clubs are doing and have been doing over the years to sustain their success - then I'm all for it.

[asiu]

concominant

nice word

edit ... concomitant actually

[samoht]

A good recruiting team in time saves nine (coaches).

[iwantmeseats]

This continuous denigration of the club and its officials, in particular the coach, has to stop.

It does nothing but undermine the club and if continued and believed, will do untold damage to the club's efforts to recruit new member, imho.

Hopefully most supporters will have more sense than the "Chicken Little" brigade who have done nothing but whinge since the Nth Melbourne game.

Saints officials have made numerous changes to the list of coaches, players and support staff. All for the better I might add but the whinging goes on.....and on...and on.

If these so called "supporters " are unhappy with the club, hopefully they will piss off and support some other team.

I, for one, am sick and tired of reading their rubbish, and so i might add, or plenty of other posters.

I can only hope ( and pray ) that the players don't read this garbage.

I have just found this in the thread and applaud you for backing up your comments. I don't agree with them mind you but I now understand your view point.

This forum/website is not a club sanctioned website. It's not saints.com.au I reckon it's for more open bantering. The club have nothing to do with it in reality. People stalk the website because certain users have great insight and some have good inside knowledge. I've never viewed the forum as a cheer squad. To be honest many of the chicken little views expressed are very similar to what you'll find out in the outer each week. We all know and understand why Richo is still coaching. Doesn't mean we have to like it.

If players are on here they almost deserve what they get. They shouldn't be stalking these pages. It's not healthy whether they read good or bad about themselves. Just like it's not healthy for relatives of players to sit amongst the great unwashed. Achieves nothing.

I too am happy with some of the changes the club have made in the last 12 months - but I have NEVER seen a coach survive this kind of win/loss ratio over this period of time. I think Richo will be in our top 5 coaches for amount of games coached in the clubs history at the end of next year! That's incredible.

I too am concerned about our membership numbers next year, but this forum is the least of my worries. We start playing competitive footy and what is being said on here will not matter a jot to new members.

And to be honest the club can ill afford for supporters to 'piss off and support some other team.' We need all the support we can get, good, bad and whiney.

I accept and support our club's decision not to sack the coach.
Our club's usual/traditional knee-jerk reaction would be to sack the coach and blame it all on them. That's enough to piss off supporters as well.
This time we've taken a deep breath and considered the injuries, this year, and our relatively poorer recruiting over the years, the accumulative affect of years and years of that (relative poorer recruiting) and the impact that it's now having - apart from the draft, we haven't chased the key established big-name players - the Dangerfields, the Treloars, the Mitchells, the Burgoynes, etc. - we've chased the fringe players that were surplus to a team's needs.

If Richo was suddenly sacked by the club, then it's no knee-jerk reaction. Five years in a top managerial role(head coach), with a terrible record of achievement, is not tolerable.

Correct. 100 per cent. The defense of AR by anyone in anyway is staggering. he would NOT be there but for a inane management decision that should itself see Finnis walking. The MORE you just accept this club being run like a chook raffle, the longer it will take to ever do anything meaningful. I m sick to death of it. its a 1oo year old problem FFS!

[samoht]

Correct. 100 per cent. The defense of AR by anyone in anyway is staggering. he would NOT be there but for a inane management decision that should itself see Finnis walking. The MORE you just accept this club being run like a chook raffle, the longer it will take to ever do anything meaningful. I m sick to death of it. its a 1oo year old problem FFS!

AR's W/L ratio will return to 50% or thereabouts, as long as we don't have a bad run with injuries again next year. If we want his W/L ratio to get to 70%, we will need to recruit an A grade midfield with elite skills for him.
We need to do what Geelong and Collingwood have done and land a ready-made star or two - a Dangerfield and a Treloar., etc...

If it was an even playing field, I too would be attacking AR, ruthlessly.

The thing is, Collingwood, Geelong, Sydney Swans, the Hawks, etc... don't just rely on their coach and their development department, they draft and recruit well (according to their team's needs) - but just as importantly, they also regularly land the elite, ready-made, big-name players to give their coaches the best chance. That's why/how their coaches have a healthy W/L ratio and these teams have sustained their success and kept themselves relevant.

We can start getting our recruiting right and start emulating what the best teams are doing, and start making it an even playing field for our coach by giving him an equal chance to succeed - or we can just sit back and continue blaming it all on the coach. Our famous default/headless chook-raffle position. There's our lose-lose/learn-nothing right there.

[Moods]

Correct. 100 per cent. The defense of AR by anyone in anyway is staggering. he would NOT be there but for a inane management decision that should itself see Finnis walking. The MORE you just accept this club being run like a chook raffle, the longer it will take to ever do anything meaningful. I m sick to death of it. its a 1oo year old problem FFS!

AR's W/L ratio will return to 50% or thereabouts, as long as we don't have a bad run with injuries again next year. If we want his W/L ratio to get to 70%, we will need to recruit an A grade midfield with elite skills for him.
We need to do what Geelong and Collingwood have done and land a ready-made star or two - a Dangerfield and a Treloar., etc...

If it was an even playing field, I too would be attacking AR, ruthlessly.

The thing is, Collingwood, Geelong, Sydney Swans, the Hawks, etc... don't just rely on their coach and their development department, they draft and recruit well (according to their team's needs) - but just as importantly, they also regularly land the elite, ready-made, big-name players to give their coaches the best chance. That's why/how their coaches have a healthy W/L ratio and these teams have sustained their success and kept themselves relevant.

We can start getting our recruiting right and start emulating what the best teams are doing, and make it an even playing field for our coach and give him an equal chance to succeed - or we can just sit back and continue blaming it all on the coach. Our famous default/headless chook-raffle position. There's our lose-lose/learn-nothing right there.

Oh come on Samoht, we were terrible from the get go last year. People blaming injuries are looking for excuses. The pies had a horrific run with injuries the last 2 years and made a GF last year. Sydney have made finals with a poor run of injuries. The way I see it is that the previous 2-3 years we actually had a golden run with injuries and managed to eek out 11-12 wins a year. This year when Bruce, Webster, Roberton were available we were still getting smashed. Personnel had nothing to do with it as far as I'm concerned. Gresham, Billings, Steven, Carlisle played large chunks of the year if not all of the year. Made not a squat of difference

[samoht]

The thing is, moods .. year by year we will fall further and further behind the more successful teams and the up and coming teams who are getting their recruiting right.

We don't have the same depth as Collingwood - so injuries affected us more.

AR had a W/L ratio of better than 50% when things were going right for him - but our recruiting team hasn't helped him over the years. We need an elite midfielder in the draft - hopefully we will not be distracted by a tall forward again this time.
We also need to poach/land an established, elite-skilled A grade midfielder or two - it's not only about the draft.

We need to give AR - or whoever our coach is - an equal chance. And, clearly, we haven't done that.
I'm not supporting the coach - I'm just hoping that we finally get our recruiting approach right, as that'll be all the support the coach needs.

[repta]

I think Richo will be in our top 5 coaches for amount of games coached in the clubs history at the end of next year! That's incredible.

Round one he becomes our third highest, then if he survives to round 8, he becomes our second highest ever for games coached.

37 wins as it stands.

Not sure where you get your numbers. SInce 1965 the figures are

Games Wins Losse Draws
Alan Jeans 261 152 108 1 58.24%
Grant Thomas 123 63 59 1 51.22%
Ross Lyon 121 76 41 4 62.81%
Stan Alves 115 55 59 1 47.83%
Alan Richardson 110 37 71 2 33.64%
Ken Shaldon 89 48 40 1 53.93%
Alex Jesaulenko 66 13 51 2 19.70%
Daryl Baldock 62 18 44 0 29.03%
Michael Patterson 44 14 29 1 31.82%
Scott Waters 44 17 27 0 38.64%
Tim Watson 44 12 31 1 27.27%
Ross Smith 22 3 17 2 13.64%
Malcom Blight 15 3 12 0 20.00%
Eric Guy 6 3 3 50.00%
Allan Davis 4 2 2 0 50.00%


so yes at round 14 he will go past Grant Thomas. Absolute disgrace. All the others have got us at deep into finals (or the big dance)

[Moods]

The thing is, moods .. year by year we will fall further and further behind the more successful teams and the up and coming teams who are getting their recruiting right.

We don't have the same depth as Collingwood - so injuries affected us more.

AR had a W/L ratio of better than 50% when things were going right for him - but our recruiting team hasn't helped him over the years. We need an elite midfielder in the draft - hopefully we will not be distracted by a tall forward again this time.
We also need to poach/land an established, elite-skilled A grade midfielder or two - it's not only about the draft.

We need to give AR - or whoever our coach is - an equal chance. And, clearly, we haven't done that.
I'm not supporting the coach - I'm just hoping that we finally get our recruiting approach right, as that'll be all the support the coach needs.

Yeah - I agree with all this. Most on here have bemoaned our terrible recruiting. However it's hard to know if it's our recruiting or terrible player development. Would Billings be a much more effective player at another club? Would he finally nail those goals which take him from an average mid sized fwd/mid to elite. Billings kicks 40+ goals a year and he becomes elite. Big IF though. Gresham the same. He becomes the next Wingard or Robbie Gray. Some of this has to fall on Richo's shoulders. Brad Scott doesn't have a great deal to work with. Whether you think he's a flog or not - he got the very best out of his team this year I reckon. Same with Bevo in 16 and Hardwick the last 2 years.

Why we recruited 2 x HBF's last year inside the top 10 I never understood. We didn't need that. We had a golden opportunity and we spent it on 2 x players who look solid at best. We need stars.

[skeptic]

Why we recruited 2 x HBF's last year inside the top 10 I never understood. We didn't need that. We had a golden opportunity and we spent it on 2 x players who look solid at best. We need stars.

I don’t think that will be a popular opinion.

Clarke in particular looks a likely type

[dragit]

I think Richo will be in our top 5 coaches for amount of games coached in the clubs history at the end of next year! That's incredible.

Round one he becomes our third highest, then if he survives to round 8, he becomes our second highest ever for games coached.

37 wins as it stands.

Not sure where you get your numbers. SInce 1965 the figures are

Games Wins Losse Draws
Alan Jeans 261 152 108 1 58.24%
Grant Thomas 123 63 59 1 51.22%
Ross Lyon 121 76 41 4 62.81%
Stan Alves 115 55 59 1 47.83%
Alan Richardson 110 37 71 2 33.64%
Ken Shaldon 89 48 40 1 53.93%
Alex Jesaulenko 66 13 51 2 19.70%
Daryl Baldock 62 18 44 0 29.03%
Michael Patterson 44 14 29 1 31.82%
Scott Waters 44 17 27 0 38.64%
Tim Watson 44 12 31 1 27.27%
Ross Smith 22 3 17 2 13.64%
Malcom Blight 15 3 12 0 20.00%
Eric Guy 6 3 3 50.00%
Allan Davis 4 2 2 0 50.00%


so yes at round 14 he will go past Grant Thomas. Absolute disgrace. All the others have got us at deep into finals (or the big dance)

Good spot, I was looking at the home and away tallies...

Richo smashing it at present with 71 losses from 110 starts.

[skeptic]

It’s hard to fathom that he could overtake Stan Alves, Ross Lyon and GT in 12 months time. A tale of two cities or what.

[Moods]

Why we recruited 2 x HBF's last year inside the top 10 I never understood. We didn't need that. We had a golden opportunity and we spent it on 2 x players who look solid at best. We need stars.

I don’t think that will be a popular opinion.

Clarke in particular looks a likely type

Yep well aware I’m out on my own with that opinion. I’m not saying that neither will play a lot of games for the Saints. I’m saying that neither will be stars.

We have produced one really good footballer in the last 10 years. Jack Steven. Every other really good player was developed by GT. No doubt I’ve missed someone, but that’s how I see it off the top of my head. I’m talking about a player that most clubs would love to get and would give up something significant to get

[David-Lee]

Having better assistants ( except King who was excellent- so we dumped him) will yield us 6-8 wins but it won't save Richo.

Is 'King' referring to Kingsley?

If so, why do you think he was excellent? I'm curious.

King or Kingsley is an excellent coach and will likely get a senior gig eventually.
He is smart, he really communicates well with the players and understands the strategy needed for the modern game. Go up and ask him about being undermined, mistrusted, told to run his game plan then shackled by Richo. He is a quality coach and we let him a very poor coach with a horrific win loss ratio push him out.

Hopefully Ratten can push Richo out the door.

I'm not saying Kingsley's a genius...but Richmond grabbed him quick smart...I guess they just wanted a sh!t coach.

[rodgerfox]

Having better assistants ( except King who was excellent- so we dumped him) will yield us 6-8 wins but it won't save Richo.

Is 'King' referring to Kingsley?

If so, why do you think he was excellent? I'm curious.

King or Kingsley is an excellent coach and will likely get a senior gig eventually.
He is smart, he really communicates well with the players and understands the strategy needed for the modern game. Go up and ask him about being undermined, mistrusted, told to run his game plan then shackled by Richo. He is a quality coach and we let him a very poor coach with a horrific win loss ratio push him out.

Hopefully Ratten can push Richo out the door.

I'm not saying Kingsley's a genius...but Richmond grabbed him quick smart...I guess they just wanted a sh!t coach.

Interesting.

I'm not necessarily disputing this, but after nearly 10 years under two different coaches at the Saints, there appeared to be zero evidence that he was any good.

Of course that is just from the outside looking in.

I always wondered why people rate him, and how he kept his job at the Saints for so long.