Punted from Good Friday ...

[rodgerfox]

If the AFL was Woolies, we'd be a bottom shelf product, the Suns in a bargain bin & Collingwood at the checkout. The consumer's thirst for their product helps dictate their placement. Essendon's product had needles in it but that storm has abated and let's face it, people love strawberries.

Bingo.

Nice one Ghost. Win 8-9-10 games and then you jump up into the freezer section, always a crowd in that area, may stay there for a while but at least you are always in the "window"

Winning is totally irrelevant.

Carlton get a good fixture, because the AFL knows what they're capable of bringing in. They want them up and about ASAP.

The Bulldogs won the flag FFS, yet remain outcast.


It's not about winning or losing, it's purely about how much dough you bring in.

Have to disagree with that one big time Rodge, Winning is everything for the saints, now , next week and forever. Not sure why you said that, illogical statement and unworthy statement. It should be like a red rag to a bull if mentioned within 1000km of Linton st. If the saints don't win and get bums on seats , close this forum down because you wont have anything to talk about. If you can get anyone from the captain upwards from St Kilda to write "winning is totally irrelevant" on paper and paste it on here then I will buy you a free ticket to China to watch the saints play the Power.

You understand the word 'context' right?

[chico2001]

If the AFL was Woolies, we'd be a bottom shelf product, the Suns in a bargain bin & Collingwood at the checkout. The consumer's thirst for their product helps dictate their placement. Essendon's product had needles in it but that storm has abated and let's face it, people love strawberries.

Bingo.

Nice one Ghost. Win 8-9-10 games and then you jump up into the freezer section, always a crowd in that area, may stay there for a while but at least you are always in the "window"

Winning is totally irrelevant.

Carlton get a good fixture, because the AFL knows what they're capable of bringing in. They want them up and about ASAP.

The Bulldogs won the flag FFS, yet remain outcast.


It's not about winning or losing, it's purely about how much dough you bring in.

Have to disagree with that one big time Rodge, Winning is everything for the saints, now , next week and forever. Not sure why you said that, illogical statement and unworthy statement. It should be like a red rag to a bull if mentioned within 1000km of Linton st. If the saints don't win and get bums on seats , close this forum down because you wont have anything to talk about. If you can get anyone from the captain upwards from St Kilda to write "winning is totally irrelevant" on paper and paste it on here then I will buy you a free ticket to China to watch the saints play the Power.

You understand the word 'context' right?

Are you asking a question? If so, use an auxiliary verb at the start of your question so the reader can understand it, then use the subject 2nd.

Do you want to redo that post again?

[rodgerfox]

if it's not about winning and losing why do the afl want carlton up and about?
because bringing in the dollar is all about winning and losing. especially longer term.
especially in the current afl climate.

"The AFL has turned to its powerhouse clubs Essendon and Collingwood to rescue the highest-profile, marquee slots on Thursday and Friday nights after disastrous fixturing in 2018.

After crowds stayed away for lowly pair St Kilda and Carlton last season, those clubs have have been banished from the prime slots in 2019."


Wouldn't matter whether we were winning or not, if you have a big fan.base and they pump money into the game, the AFL will use you.

If you don't, they'll use you in other ways.

[chico2001]

Woeful fixturing. Crowds stay away when you lose, that is a given. The big clubs always get a big crowd regardless.

It would better to be "used in other ways" Like winning a shedful of games with good crowds and then getting back into the big draws and a bigger TV audience. It is a very simple method to get into the Friday night action. Answer this one, St Kilda win 6 matches in 2019, would they get 2-3 Friday night games in 2020?


Just don't understand why you think that winning wont do us any good.

[wolfpup]

Being reported (ie leaked by the AFL) that we’re about to get punted from a Good Friday after this year’s debacle.

Well done to Richo, his tactics-lite, clueless group and the 22 on-field spuds who gave absolutely nothing that fateful day.

i am late to this but north melbourne were utterly pathetic as well, one of the worst games i had seen, norf had lost to gold coast the week before and scott was playing a repulsive style of flooded defense crap.

what freaking blew me away was that our team gave up late in the last quarter, norf were too tough, it was embarrassing, they kicked a whole bunch of junk time goals

[rodgerfox]

Woeful fixturing. Crowds stay away when you lose, that is a given. The big clubs always get a big crowd regardless.

It would better to be "used in other ways" Like winning a shedful of games with good crowds and then getting back into the big draws and a bigger TV audience. It is a very simple method to get into the Friday night action. Answer this one, St Kilda win 6 matches in 2019, would they get 2-3 Friday night games in 2020?


Just don't understand why you think that winning wont do us any good.

"Getting back into the big draws"???

Back??

[rodgerfox]

Woeful fixturing. Crowds stay away when you lose, that is a given. The big clubs always get a big crowd regardless.

It would better to be "used in other ways" Like winning a shedful of games with good crowds and then getting back into the big draws and a bigger TV audience. It is a very simple method to get into the Friday night action. Answer this one, St Kilda win 6 matches in 2019, would they get 2-3 Friday night games in 2020?


Just don't understand why you think that winning wont do us any good.

Carlton couldn't win a game to save themselves, yet we're given Friday night games.

Eventually, cause they didn't pull the big crowds like the AFL anticipated - they lose it.

To guess who? A team that finished last, then 7th, then slumped down to 11th last year.

Winning doesn't mean s*** to the AFL. What matters is how many fans you have that fork out their hard earned.


No matter how much we win, we will never have any 'power' with the AFL. Never, ever have, never, ever will.

Unless as I said, we suddenly find an extra 40-50k cashed up supporters somewhere.

[desertsaint]

if it's not about winning and losing why do the afl want carlton up and about?
because bringing in the dollar is all about winning and losing. especially longer term.
especially in the current afl climate.

"The AFL has turned to its powerhouse clubs Essendon and Collingwood to rescue the highest-profile, marquee slots on Thursday and Friday nights after disastrous fixturing in 2018.

After crowds stayed away for lowly pair St Kilda and Carlton last season, those clubs have have been banished from the prime slots in 2019."


Wouldn't matter whether we were winning or not, if you have a big fan.base and they pump money into the game, the AFL will use you.

If you don't, they'll use you in other ways.

this is all so roger, but the only way we grow a bigger fan base is winning. long term. the afl make this much harder by scheduling big clubs in the big games, but keep winning and you get some leverage. more friday and saturday night games, more publicity. it's the only way up. winning is everything for us. the only way up.

[rodgerfox]

if it's not about winning and losing why do the afl want carlton up and about?
because bringing in the dollar is all about winning and losing. especially longer term.
especially in the current afl climate.

"The AFL has turned to its powerhouse clubs Essendon and Collingwood to rescue the highest-profile, marquee slots on Thursday and Friday nights after disastrous fixturing in 2018.

After crowds stayed away for lowly pair St Kilda and Carlton last season, those clubs have have been banished from the prime slots in 2019."


Wouldn't matter whether we were winning or not, if you have a big fan.base and they pump money into the game, the AFL will use you.

If you don't, they'll use you in other ways.

this is all so roger, but the only way we grow a bigger fan base is winning. long term. the afl make this much harder by scheduling big clubs in the big games, but keep winning and you get some leverage. more friday and saturday night games, more publicity. it's the only way up. winning is everything for us. the only way up.

How many big games did the Bulldogs get after they won the flag?

Their attendance was mediocre the year they won the flag, dropped the year after it, and fell away further last year.

They weren't just winning either - they won the f****** flag!!! And it gave them zero, zilch power and leverage with the AFL.

They actually got less Friday night games and even got the arse from Good Friday.

They lost nearly 10% of their members too.

So not only did winning give them no pull with the AFL, it didn't increase their fan base either.


Since the AFL's inception, we've played shitloads of finals, finished on top of the ladder a couple of times, and played in two grand finals.
We've experienced winning.

Yet here we are.

No increase to our fan base. Just like the Dogs. Just like North.


Meanwhile, Essendon hasn't won a final in 14 years or whatever, has brought the game into disrepute, lost its entire list for a year - yet throughout they receive the highest profile fixture of any club.


As I said in my earlier post, fan bases are historical. They don't change overnight. They don't change over decades even. Historically, they don't change at all.

That's why South Melbourne are gone. That's why Fitzroy are gone. That's why we averaged almost half the attendance figures of Collingwood, Carlton and Essendon even when we were coming off two grand final appeearances.

It's why Richmond can still nearly fill the MCG and get 73000 members when they haven't won a final for 20 years or whatever.


It just is what it is.


Winning does not give clubs any power over the AFL. Winning does not increase a fan base (in old markets).

[rodgerfox]

It would better to be "used in other ways" Like winning a shedful of games with good crowds and then getting back into the big draws and a bigger TV audience.

"If winning games is your sole objective, then Melbourne and Collingwood have been punished for their rises to the top four, while Richmond fare only marginally better on degree of difficulty.

Conversely, if clicking turnstiles, decent television audiences and dollars is your measure of a "good draw," then those clubs have been handed largesse. They should make plenty of money, via marquee matches and return bouts against heavyweights."


They're being used, just like us.

They have no power. Just like us.

[saintspremiers]

I don’t understand why Footscray got punted from Good Friday after one year where they got a decent 42K

I also don’t understand why Norf “own” this slot either.

The other thing that shytes me more is how Queens Bday and Easter Monday have had the same clubs playing for years with no variation. Also, why not have a second game on those days at Marvel or even interstate?

Gil can go get farked

[Yorkeys]

I suppose it would be out of the question to try to put a few winning seasons together to test the theory about the relevance of winning? Or how about just play exciting footy rather than dour Richardsonian pap. I'd like that sort of experiment (from memory when we were playing finals there were Friday night lights and didn't we do Geelong in one of the best ever games and get rewarded for that). I am also keen to know what this all powerful "AFL" despot thing is. Is it Gill son of Andrew or the sum of the executives in the AFL corporate offices or do the commissioners sit around and make the Machiavellian decisions. A combination? A couple of things that seem clear to me are that Essendon has a critical mass of very well placed, wealthy activist supporters that have brought it through its period of disgrace and that the chickens hatched by Alan and Matt are coming home to roost. The draw is a slap in the face, of course. I would be surprised if the Saints worthy but misguided decision not to sack Alan early in 2018 is not used in the near future as a precedent case study in false economy and poor group think. Our new President has been handed a can of worms but Lethlean and the other new soldiers seem up to the challenge. And Gill must see the writing on the wall that his tenure is ending in the foreseeable. When Shorten can mock you successful you are on the way out.

[desertsaint]

if it's not about winning and losing why do the afl want carlton up and about?
because bringing in the dollar is all about winning and losing. especially longer term.
especially in the current afl climate.

"The AFL has turned to its powerhouse clubs Essendon and Collingwood to rescue the highest-profile, marquee slots on Thursday and Friday nights after disastrous fixturing in 2018.

After crowds stayed away for lowly pair St Kilda and Carlton last season, those clubs have have been banished from the prime slots in 2019."


Wouldn't matter whether we were winning or not, if you have a big fan.base and they pump money into the game, the AFL will use you.

If you don't, they'll use you in other ways.

this is all so roger, but the only way we grow a bigger fan base is winning. long term. the afl make this much harder by scheduling big clubs in the big games, but keep winning and you get some leverage. more friday and saturday night games, more publicity. it's the only way up. winning is everything for us. the only way up.

How many big games did the Bulldogs get after they won the flag?

Their attendance was mediocre the year they won the flag, dropped the year after it, and fell away further last year.
...


It just is what it is.


Winning does not give clubs any power over the AFL. Winning does not increase a fan base (in old markets).

you said it - 'in old markets'. the afl is about finding new markets. melbourne is no longer the same city. it is full of new citizens from all over the world. it has more than tripled in size since our last premiership. much of this is from new australians.
winning is important. in the short term to gain instant rewards in fixture and publicity, and more importantly long term, so you become a regular fixture. a talked about team. look at carlton. punted from thursdays and fridays. why. because losing. keep it up over a few decades and they will lose irrelevance. look at the hawks, a much bigger club than us nowadays. why? winning!
look at how many more marquee and night games collingwood, melbourne (a small fan base like ours), and essendon were awarded this year - all on the back of winning. i guarantee you if the bombers had not finished off so well, and didn't look like rising, they wouldn't have been rewarded so well. if the dogs had followed up their flag with two more successful seasons do you really believe they would have the same poor fixture they have now? of course not. but they stopped winning. one swallow does not a summer make.
so of course fan bases change over the long term. but if a team remains relevant they generally keep the base. lose long term and lose support. it's why fitzroy no longer exist, and why south left to sydney. one lost its base and died, one left to find a new one.

[kosifantutti]

if it's not about winning and losing why do the afl want carlton up and about?
because bringing in the dollar is all about winning and losing. especially longer term.
especially in the current afl climate.

"The AFL has turned to its powerhouse clubs Essendon and Collingwood to rescue the highest-profile, marquee slots on Thursday and Friday nights after disastrous fixturing in 2018.

After crowds stayed away for lowly pair St Kilda and Carlton last season, those clubs have have been banished from the prime slots in 2019."


Wouldn't matter whether we were winning or not, if you have a big fan.base and they pump money into the game, the AFL will use you.

If you don't, they'll use you in other ways.

this is all so roger, but the only way we grow a bigger fan base is winning. long term. the afl make this much harder by scheduling big clubs in the big games, but keep winning and you get some leverage. more friday and saturday night games, more publicity. it's the only way up. winning is everything for us. the only way up.

How many big games did the Bulldogs get after they won the flag?

Their attendance was mediocre the year they won the flag, dropped the year after it, and fell away further last year.

They weren't just winning either - they won the f****** flag!!! And it gave them zero, zilch power and leverage with the AFL.

They actually got less Friday night games and even got the arse from Good Friday.

They lost nearly 10% of their members too.

So not only did winning give them no pull with the AFL, it didn't increase their fan base either.


Since the AFL's inception, we've played shitloads of finals, finished on top of the ladder a couple of times, and played in two grand finals.
We've experienced winning.

Yet here we are.

No increase to our fan base. Just like the Dogs. Just like North.


Meanwhile, Essendon hasn't won a final in 14 years or whatever, has brought the game into disrepute, lost its entire list for a year - yet throughout they receive the highest profile fixture of any club.


As I said in my earlier post, fan bases are historical. They don't change overnight. They don't change over decades even. Historically, they don't change at all.

That's why South Melbourne are gone. That's why Fitzroy are gone. That's why we averaged almost half the attendance figures of Collingwood, Carlton and Essendon even when we were coming off two grand final appeearances.

It's why Richmond can still nearly fill the MCG and get 73000 members when they haven't won a final for 20 years or whatever.


It just is what it is.


Winning does not give clubs any power over the AFL. Winning does not increase a fan base (in old markets).

I agree with the general principle but I think your bulldogs attendance figures are off. 2017 home and away attendances were higher than their premiership year of 2016 which were higher than 2105. Total attendance was higher in 2016 because they had four finals.

It's a matter of being able to capitalise on these seasons, which to a large extend comes down to historical supporter base.

[rodgerfox]

I disagree with your entire post, and have stated my reasons why.

But this bit sums it up....

look at carlton. punted from thursdays and fridays. why. because losing. keep it up over a few decades and they will lose irrelevance. look at the hawks, a much bigger club than us nowadays. why? winning!

That is completely wrong. They've been losing for the best part of a decade - yet still we're given high profile slots. In particular Friday nights.

Even after a wooden spoon season they were given Friday nights. Then when. Then when they stunk it up - they were given even more Friday nights!

Their winning or losing has nothing to do with it. It's because their fans weren't coughing up, that's why they got the flick.

The Bulldogs won the flag. You can't win more than that! And they were flicked from the few decent time slots they had. Their supporter base hasn't increased.


As Melbourne grows, so does the sporting landscape. We have two soccer teams, an NRL team, a rugby union team, a basketball team with another to come, two Big Bash franchises, a WNBL team and the EPL and American sports are bigger here than ever.

There's a reason the AFL plonker a team in GWS and the Gold Coast. It's because those are the only non exhausted markets there are.


As I've said numerous times, winning does not equal an explosion of the supporter base. It doesn't in any sport.

Fans that jump on due to a team winning, jump off just as quickly once they start losing. Administrators the world over know this.


North dominated the comp in the mid-late 90s and didn't make a dime from it. No bigger supporter base, no 'big club status'. Nothing.

We played in successive GFs. Nothing. Zilch.

The Bulldogs won a flag. Nada. Nought.


The AFL know Carlton have the fan base, that's why they persevered with them in primetime. But it didn't work. They'll be back though, the AFL know this.


They also know that we don't have the supporter base. We will never, ever have one.


Therefore, we get used by the AFL differently to the way they use Collingwood and Essendon.

[rodgerfox]

I agree with the general principle but I think your bulldogs attendance figures are off. 2017 home and away attendances were higher than their premiership year of 2016 which were higher than 2105. Total attendance was higher in 2016 because they had four finals.

It's a matter of being able to capitalise on these seasons, which to a large extend comes down to historical supporter base.

They averaged 27k in 2015, 31k in 2016, 33k in 2017 and 29k this year.

The overall AFL average was 32k, 32k, 34k and 35k.


This tells us two things...

Even when winning, the increase in attendance was negligible, and fell away almost immediately.

Secondly, it tells us that this was further proof to the AFL that small clubs being successful add f*** all to their bottom line.


The Bulldogs home crowds dropped from 31k in 2017, to 25k in 2018.

[GSG]

if it's not about winning and losing why do the afl want carlton up and about?
because bringing in the dollar is all about winning and losing. especially longer term.
especially in the current afl climate.

"The AFL has turned to its powerhouse clubs Essendon and Collingwood to rescue the highest-profile, marquee slots on Thursday and Friday nights after disastrous fixturing in 2018.

After crowds stayed away for lowly pair St Kilda and Carlton last season, those clubs have have been banished from the prime slots in 2019."


Wouldn't matter whether we were winning or not, if you have a big fan.base and they pump money into the game, the AFL will use you.

If you don't, they'll use you in other ways.

this is all so roger, but the only way we grow a bigger fan base is winning. long term. the afl make this much harder by scheduling big clubs in the big games, but keep winning and you get some leverage. more friday and saturday night games, more publicity. it's the only way up. winning is everything for us. the only way up.

How many big games did the Bulldogs get after they won the flag?

Their attendance was mediocre the year they won the flag, dropped the year after it, and fell away further last year.

They weren't just winning either - they won the f****** flag!!! And it gave them zero, zilch power and leverage with the AFL.

They actually got less Friday night games and even got the arse from Good Friday.

They lost nearly 10% of their members too.

So not only did winning give them no pull with the AFL, it didn't increase their fan base either.


Since the AFL's inception, we've played shitloads of finals, finished on top of the ladder a couple of times, and played in two grand finals.
We've experienced winning.

Yet here we are.

No increase to our fan base. Just like the Dogs. Just like North.


Meanwhile, Essendon hasn't won a final in 14 years or whatever, has brought the game into disrepute, lost its entire list for a year - yet throughout they receive the highest profile fixture of any club.


As I said in my earlier post, fan bases are historical. They don't change overnight. They don't change over decades even. Historically, they don't change at all.

That's why South Melbourne are gone. That's why Fitzroy are gone. That's why we averaged almost half the attendance figures of Collingwood, Carlton and Essendon even when we were coming off two grand final appeearances.

It's why Richmond can still nearly fill the MCG and get 73000 members when they haven't won a final for 20 years or whatever.


It just is what it is.


Winning does not give clubs any power over the AFL. Winning does not increase a fan base (in old markets).

1+++

[The Craw]

I agree with the general principle but I think your bulldogs attendance figures are off. 2017 home and away attendances were higher than their premiership year of 2016 which were higher than 2105. Total attendance was higher in 2016 because they had four finals.

It's a matter of being able to capitalise on these seasons, which to a large extend comes down to historical supporter base.

They averaged 27k in 2015, 31k in 2016, 33k in 2017 and 29k this year.

The overall AFL average was 32k, 32k, 34k and 35k.


This tells us two things...

Even when winning, the increase in attendance was negligible, and fell away almost immediately.

Secondly, it tells us that this was further proof to the AFL that small clubs being successful add f*** all to their bottom line.


The Bulldogs home crowds dropped from 31k in 2017, to 25k in 2018.

It has nothing to do with bums on seats ..... it is the eyes on the the TV.

The rights are up in 2022 and you would think that negotiations will start early to mid 2020.

It has nothing to do with winning. It is style of play and what St Kilda dished up was putrid ..... to the point where I would turn it off after the first quarter. A neutral wouldn't even bother watching at all.

Give the people a reason to watch, you will improve your fixture. Simple.

[rodgerfox]

I agree with the general principle but I think your bulldogs attendance figures are off. 2017 home and away attendances were higher than their premiership year of 2016 which were higher than 2105. Total attendance was higher in 2016 because they had four finals.

It's a matter of being able to capitalise on these seasons, which to a large extend comes down to historical supporter base.

They averaged 27k in 2015, 31k in 2016, 33k in 2017 and 29k this year.

The overall AFL average was 32k, 32k, 34k and 35k.


This tells us two things...

Even when winning, the increase in attendance was negligible, and fell away almost immediately.

Secondly, it tells us that this was further proof to the AFL that small clubs being successful add f*** all to their bottom line.


The Bulldogs home crowds dropped from 31k in 2017, to 25k in 2018.

It has nothing to do with bums on seats ..... it is the eyes on the the TV.

The rights are up in 2022 and you would think that negotiations will start early to mid 2020.

It has nothing to do with winning. It is style of play and what St Kilda dished up was putrid ..... to the point where I would turn it off after the first quarter. A neutral wouldn't even bother watching at all.

Give the people a reason to watch, you will improve your fixture. Simple.

The point is, that even when you're successful, you don't grow your supporter base.

[stevie]

My 82 year old Aunty has been a Bulldogs member for decades. But she’s not doing it this year as their 2 games in Ballarat are not included in the package!

[spert]

Hopefully, some of these 2019 big ticket games will see one-sided blowouts, or, a defensive slog that is not TV friendly. The Saints served up utter crap over that last season and a half, and supporters and viewers voted with their feet and remote controls.

[desertsaint]

it's going round and around roger. but you are flogging a dead horse.
if winning doesn't affect afl scheduling or membership then explain why richmond's membership rose over 30% on the back of a premiership. why hawthorn has over 80,000 members now when they were struggling and close to a merge in the 90s? why melbourne with the same membership as ourselves, the dogs, and north, have suddenly been given big games on the back of finishing top four? carlton have lost these games on the back of a wooden spoon.
every single example is pretty solid evidence of the importance of winning. i think you made a grandiose statement without thinking it through and simply won't back down from it. of course footy allegiances rarely change, and a supporter base goes to sleep and then wakes again. a supporter life is 60 plus years. But a sleeping base is just that - asleep. every year new people come into the fold. you gain a much higher percentage of them if you are successful, than if you are not. amd of course your own support base is awake and attending. and of course the afl give you a much better schedule when you are winning and winning consistently. not just a flash in the pan like 2016. compare our scheduling now with 2009 and 10.
over and out.

[rodgerfox]

it's going round and around roger. but you are flogging a dead horse.
if winning doesn't affect afl scheduling or membership then explain why richmond's membership rose over 30% on the back of a premiership. why hawthorn has over 80,000 members now when they were struggling and close to a merge in the 90s? why melbourne with the same membership as ourselves, the dogs, and north, have suddenly been given big games on the back of finishing top four? carlton have lost these games on the back of a wooden spoon.
every single example is pretty solid evidence of the importance of winning. i think you made a grandiose statement without thinking it through and simply won't back down from it. of course footy allegiances rarely change, and a supporter base goes to sleep and then wakes again. a supporter life is 60 plus years. But a sleeping base is just that - asleep. every year new people come into the fold. you gain a much higher percentage of them if you are successful, than if you are not. amd of course your own support base is awake and attending. and of course the afl give you a much better schedule when you are winning and winning consistently. not just a flash in the pan like 2016. compare our scheduling now with 2009 and 10.
over and out.

Firstly, you should probably read what I wrote, as I think you came in late.


You've just totally supported my point.



Secondly...
09: 34k ave. Crowd
10: 37k
11: 35k
12: 31k
13: 28k
14: 27k
15: 26k
16: 31k
17: 34k
18: 28k


So where's this power we hold over the AFL from being the best performed team in the comp for two years back in 09-10?
Our supporter base certainly didn't explode due to winning consistently for 2.5 years, and playing finals for almost a decade.

[sunsaint]

So where's this power we hold over the AFL from being the best performed team in the comp for two years back in 09-10?
Our supporter base certainly didn't explode due to winning consistently for 2.5 years, and playing finals for almost a decade.

and for the next 10yrs we have not been winning games
Yes there are power clubs - but there are reasons for this and has little to do with the last 20yrs of the AFL
its pretty bl@@dy simple Rodge
and then it gets more complex

Win more games than you lose
Win the games that matter most eg 1 game in Sept. the GF
DO that over a 100 yr history
Have a stable home base - and while people get miffed at so called favouritism for interstate clubs - those markets are a 100% requirement given the Australian population
Have more positive news than scandals
Have a well run support staff
Play a style of football that excites the congregation - especially for the TV crowd to draw neutral viewers

Here is the ONE thing people need to let sink in
The AFL dont want a boring ladder locked into the same teams year in year out & every one of the "big rules" that the AFL has introduced is about creating that turnover at the top

We had a shot - failed
Dogs had a shot - won
The TIges were in the doldrums for ages (after being so called power club) - won
Melbourne have been cr@p for ages and are building

There are no guarantees given about winning a GF - but there is a correlation between power clubs and the number of GF's

[rodgerfox]

So where's this power we hold over the AFL from being the best performed team in the comp for two years back in 09-10?
Our supporter base certainly didn't explode due to winning consistently for 2.5 years, and playing finals for almost a decade.

and for the next 10yrs we have not been winning games
Yes there are power clubs - but there are reasons for this and has little to do with the last 20yrs of the AFL
its pretty bl@@dy simple Rodge
and then it gets more complex

Win more games than you lose
Win the games that matter most eg 1 game in Sept. the GF
DO that over a 100 yr history
Have a stable home base - and while people get miffed at so called favouritism for interstate clubs - those markets are a 100% requirement given the Australian population
Have more positive news than scandals
Have a well run support staff
Play a style of football that excites the congregation - especially for the TV crowd to draw neutral viewers

Here is the ONE thing people need to let sink in
The AFL dont want a boring ladder locked into the same teams year in year out & every one of the "big rules" that the AFL has introduced is about creating that turnover at the top

We had a shot - failed
Dogs had a shot - won
The TIges were in the doldrums for ages (after being so called power club) - won
Melbourne have been cr@p for ages and are building

There are no guarantees given about winning a GF - but there is a correlation between power clubs and the number of GF's

Thanks. You've pretty much summed up my point.