Richardson's Flawed Theory?

[rodgerfox]

"I think I have a lot to offer a team, especially one knocking on the door of the finals where I can go in and just play a role and not worry about getting the most out of the other blokes, which is the role I played at St Kilda this year."
- Mav Weller


This is why I don't think our list is that awful.

I reckon we have about 15 guys who aren't playing their natural game. McCartin and Bruce are two obvious ones, Weller is clearly another, and I reckon our entire midfield all play some sort of over-engineered style of football that is barely recognisable as AFL footy and is even less effective.

How many more do we have that aren't being allowed to play football? Free flowing, instinctive footy.


Instead, they're all part of some impossible dream of a coach that is out of his depth.


We can only hope, that Kingsley was the driving force behind it.

[fugazi]

Sounded like a winge from Mav to my ears.
He was pretty poor this year. So rather than being a victim of poor team form he could well take responsibility and realize he was a contributor to the poor firm.

Wish him well...but I seem to remember similar sour grapes when GCS moved him on to us.

[samoht]

Can’t be any other reason and any other factors at play other than the coach’s incompetence?

I mean we had RL give up and jump ship and call it an “end of an era”, SW being shown the door and now AR is no good.
We’ve had 3 coaches in quick succession, and now talking about a fourth... and our poor recruiting seems to be the common denominator and the major factor - at least to me.

The injuries and hard draw - where we played the stronger teams twice - and lost key players important to structure also logically had some part to play.

[Cairnsman]

"I think I have a lot to offer a team, especially one knocking on the door of the finals where I can go in and just play a role and not worry about getting the most out of the other blokes, which is the role I played at St Kilda this year."
- Mav Weller


This is why I don't think our list is that awful.

I reckon we have about 15 guys who aren't playing their natural game. McCartin and Bruce are two obvious ones, Weller is clearly another, and I reckon our entire midfield all play some sort of over-engineered style of football that is barely recognisable as AFL footy and is even less effective.

How many more do we have that aren't being allowed to play football? Free flowing, instinctive footy.


Instead, they're all part of some impossible dream of a coach that is out of his depth.


We can only hope, that Kingsley was the driving force behind it.

Your last sentence places a bit of ambiguity about the claim you are making which reads like Richo has a flawed theory of requiring players not to play thier natural game but your last sentence then reads like you're guessing it was Richos theory.

[samoht]

On the other hand ....
Our biggest loss all year was only by 50 points ... despite our challenging draw, wholesale injuries and below-par recruiting - including that of Weller.

[degruch]

Amazing then, with his career on the line and a new contract beckoning, he didn't decide to bust a few games wide open with his free flowing, instinctive style and slam of 2-3 goals!

[rodgerfox]

Sounded like a winge from Mav to my ears.
He was pretty poor this year. So rather than being a victim of poor team form he could well take responsibility and realize he was a contributor to the poor firm.

Wish him well...but I seem to remember similar sour grapes when GCS moved him on to us.

I think given that he was picked just about every week he was fit - surely tells us that he was doing exactly what he was being asked to do.

[rodgerfox]

Amazing then, with his career on the line and a new contract beckoning, he didn't decide to bust a few games wide open with his free flowing, instinctive style and slam of 2-3 goals!

And get dropped for not following team rules?

Akermanis was lighting it up at Brisbane - but got sacked because he wasn't following team rules on field.


It's not the U12s where blokes go out there and do whatever the f*** they feel like.

They play a role, and if they deviate from it - they get dropped.

[rodgerfox]

"I think I have a lot to offer a team, especially one knocking on the door of the finals where I can go in and just play a role and not worry about getting the most out of the other blokes, which is the role I played at St Kilda this year."
- Mav Weller


This is why I don't think our list is that awful.

I reckon we have about 15 guys who aren't playing their natural game. McCartin and Bruce are two obvious ones, Weller is clearly another, and I reckon our entire midfield all play some sort of over-engineered style of football that is barely recognisable as AFL footy and is even less effective.

How many more do we have that aren't being allowed to play football? Free flowing, instinctive footy.


Instead, they're all part of some impossible dream of a coach that is out of his depth.


We can only hope, that Kingsley was the driving force behind it.

Your last sentence places a bit of ambiguity about the claim you are making which reads like Richo has a flawed theory of requiring players not to play thier natural game but your last sentence then reads like you're guessing it was Richos theory.

I'm absolutely guessing.

My position has always been that one of either Kingsley or Richardson must go. The way we play must rest at the feet of the either the head coach or the head tactician.

It's not the List, nor a fluke that we have no system.

I'm just hoping we pulled the right rein.

[satchmo]

"I think I have a lot to offer a team, especially one knocking on the door of the finals where I can go in and just play a role and not worry about getting the most out of the other blokes, which is the role I played at St Kilda this year."
- Mav Weller

I'm struggling to think of an example where Mav got the most out of other blokes.

Good luck to him though.

[dragit]

We’ve had 3 coaches in quick succession

Richardson is set early next year to become second highest on games coached for St Kilda, if you're putting up 4 wins in your 5th year, then you are very fortunate to be still coaching the next year. He said we had the talent to go all the way btw.

His 'strong in the contest' game plan which was brought over from Port Adelaide is really looking decrepit without a couple of stars like Riewoldt and Joey to keep things organised on the field. I don't think west coast or collingwood have the best lists in the comp, but they are both super fit, clearly well drilled and playing with confidence… an absolute gulf between them and us in regards to extracting the best from the players.

As for Mav, thank goodness he has gone… pretty spineless stuff to complain about having to help your young team mates lift, no wonder his time in the leadership group was so short-lived. The bloke was very fortunate to play his last 30 odd games.

Ironically we looked a lot better this year when we were decimated by injuries and richo had no choice but to play a bunch of younger guys who naturally took the game on, but Brandon White and Austin were dropped for old stodgy classics as soon it was possible to do so.

[degruch]

Amazing then, with his career on the line and a new contract beckoning, he didn't decide to bust a few games wide open with his free flowing, instinctive style and slam of 2-3 goals!

And get dropped for not following team rules?

Akermanis was lighting it up at Brisbane - but got sacked because he wasn't following team rules on field.


It's not the U12s where blokes go out there and do whatever the f*** they feel like.

They play a role, and if they deviate from it - they get dropped.

I'd like to know what part of scoring 2-3 goals a game as a mid/fwd would get you dropped from the team. Maybe Mav could ask Lonie?

Hmmm...Richo versus Leigh Matthews...I know which one I'd rather cross!

[St Chris]

Pretty sure I remember Hickey saying something similar in his post-trade interview on Trade radio......

Something like "it will be good to go somewhere and just play footy and not over complicate things", it seemed like a drive-by at the time and just thought it was a bit sour by Hickey, but maybe there's more to it. Hopefully some of the new experienced heads in the coaching group can simplify the message.

[rodgerfox]

...richo had no choice but to play a bunch of younger guys who naturally took the game on, but Brandon White and Austin were dropped for old stodgy classics as soon it was possible to do so.

They were dropped for blokes that do what they're told.

Players that follow team rules and ignore their own instincts to adhere to what the coach instructs them to do.




Which, by the sounds of it - is exactly what Weller was doing.

[Bernard Shakey]

We can only hope, that Kingsley was the driving force behind it.

I heard quite early in the season that the players were not happy with Kingsley!

[rodgerfox]

We can only hope, that Kingsley was the driving force behind it.

I heard quite early in the season that the players were not happy with Kingsley!

I heard an interview when one of the players commented that he complicated things too much. Or words to that effect.

[dragit]

They were dropped for blokes that do what they're told.

Players that follow team rules and ignore their own instincts to adhere to what the coach instructs them to do.

I guess there needs to be a balance, you can't have 22 headless chooks trying to win the game off their own boot, on the other hand you won't beat many AFL sides with a poorly skilled, slow and stodgy team, no matter what your plan is.

[rodgerfox]

They were dropped for blokes that do what they're told.

Players that follow team rules and ignore their own instincts to adhere to what the coach instructs them to do.

I guess there needs to be a balance, you can't have 22 headless chooks trying to win the game off their own boot, on the other hand you won't beat many AFL sides with a poorly skilled, slow and stodgy team, no matter what your plan is.

Absolutely agree.

It's my opinion that we've swung way, way too far towards over complicating a system though.

There definitely should be certain team rules, certain things that certain guys can and can't do - and systems in place to ensure that everyone knows what they need to do and where they need to be, and what their teammates need to do and where their teammates will be.


But all of this should purely be designed to facilitate cohesion and compliment the natural ability and instincts of players.

Our system or strategy or game plan (or whatever you want to call it) appears to be the exact opposite.

[Cairnsman]

A lot of wild guessing going on this thread.

[rodgerfox]

A lot of wild guessing going on this thread.

Isn't that what forums are for? Sharing and discussing opinions?

[Yorkeys]

I suspect Mav means he was worried about getting a lot out of the other blokes on the other team - its not easy to consistently kick and handball to the advantage of opponents and miss sitters on goal while falling off tackles by the merest fingernail and yet still look committed to the cause - the urge to look smug must have been an enormous pressure. I also suspect that Richo has a relatively simple view of the world and how a team should organise itself but does not have the mental acuity to say it in simple terms or plain English/Irish to the players or the temperament not to be outrageously inconsistent and stubborn when things are not going well. Add some sophistication from Kingsley and it was all too much for AR to process and translate to the players, particularly when his simple view of how to prepare a team is clearly wrong and fundamentally flawed anyway. I reckon Ratten will help in many ways and one will be the KIS approach and by playing chaps who can get the footy. AR can just be a figure head in 2019, like an Icarus Rising type thing.

[sunsaint]

A lot of wild guessing going on this thread.

Isn't that what forums are for? Sharing and discussing opinions?

ooh ooh can I take this one? - There are a couple of threads recently saying no you cant

[sunsaint]

They were dropped for blokes that do what they're told.

Players that follow team rules and ignore their own instincts to adhere to what the coach instructs them to do.

I guess there needs to be a balance, you can't have 22 headless chooks trying to win the game off their own boot, on the other hand you won't beat many AFL sides with a poorly skilled, slow and stodgy team, no matter what your plan is.

Absolutely agree.

It's my opinion that we've swung way, way too far towards over complicating a system though.

There definitely should be certain team rules, certain things that certain guys can and can't do - and systems in place to ensure that everyone knows what they need to do and where they need to be, and what their teammates need to do and where their teammates will be.


But all of this should purely be designed to facilitate cohesion and compliment the natural ability and instincts of players.

Our system or strategy or game plan (or whatever you want to call it) appears to be the exact opposite.

Ole Rodge I have a sneaking feeling you watched the Pies in 2018 and was begrudgingly impressed with how they went about winning games.
So you have used Mav as the example - lets stick with where he plays - wouldnt you say that one of the big problems with the saints in 2018 was ball movement into the forwardline? You could say it had two major problems
# not accurate enough to be classed as methodical
# not quick enough to cause chaos & instinctive

In todays footy you need to have a system there is no doubt - regardless of club you need a style of play
& in todays footy you generally have two styles of player instinctive and or methodical
As a coach if you try implement a system that dumb players cant grasp - it fails
And if you try to create a chaotic instinctive game plan with plodders - it fails

The BIG question is where lies the blame
the players fault ? Or the coaches?

[Ghost Like]

Whilst I am firmly in the "No for Cho" camp, I cannot see the link in Mav's quote to Richardson's Flawed Theory. I don't even see the connection to "natural instinct".

Mav states he has a lot to offer...except Leadership, Inspiration, Mentoring, Guiding and Teaching young players.

This was the year for him to stand up, he was not alone there, others also failed to stand up in a team lacking leadership and experience.

He only speaks of a role, there are dozens of players (delisted and fringe) who could play "a role" in a good team, a team knocking on the finals door. Sadly for Mav, quite a few of those can probably offer more.

[rodgerfox]

Whilst I am firmly in the "No for Cho" camp, I cannot see the link in Mav's quote to Richardson's Flawed Theory. I don't even see the connection to "natural instinct".

Mav states he has a lot to offer...except Leadership, Inspiration, Mentoring, Guiding and Teaching young players.

This was the year for him to stand up, he was not alone there, others also failed to stand up in a team lacking leadership and experience.

He only speaks of a role, there are dozens of players (delisted and fringe) who could play "a role" in a good team, a team knocking on the finals door. Sadly for Mav, quite a few of those can probably offer more.

Disagree.

The 'assisting other blokes' talks about his on field role - not in terms of leadership but in terms of what his job on.game day was.

Others have spoken about this too.