Why False Optimism Is Demented And Dangerous

[skeptic]

It's very obvious the OP has depression.

Mental illness isn’t a joke. It’s not funny and it isn’t something you should be using to put people down with as you have repeatedly done over the last few weeks.

Like sexism, there’s been a lot of work going into distigmatising mental illness and jokes like that are not ok. If someone is depressed on this forum, it’s nothing for you to make fun of

...but you "agree 100%" with a post telling us that to be optimistic is "demented"?

I’m struggling to see where he said that... apologies if I’m missing that. The context is different to what I’m calling here though.

This is about mental illness being used as a put down. And not once and not in a throwaway comment as part of a bigger post

It's the title of the thread (which is quoted in every post), so not exactly a "throwaway comment as part of a bigger post". It seems to be the key point.

I also think Cairnsman's comment appeared to be an observation, rather than a put down. But if you read it as a put down, how do you not consider the entire op as a put down of every poster on this forum that has an optimistic outlook?

I don’t read the OP as targeting any one individual and he’s describing an idea as demented...
And the term demented is not a mental health term and dementia (what you are referring to) isn’t a mental illness and it doesn’t carry the same stigma.

You’re trying to turn this into something it’s not.

This is not the first time CM has used directed that line to attack people and he has also taken the piss out of R U OK (day) on numerous occasions.

I’m not referencing one post that’s crossed a line but an ongoing joke that’s in bad taste

[satchmo]

It's very obvious the OP has depression.

Mental illness isn’t a joke. It’s not funny and it isn’t something you should be using to put people down with as you have repeatedly done over the last few weeks.

Like sexism, there’s been a lot of work going into distigmatising mental illness and jokes like that are not ok. If someone is depressed on this forum, it’s nothing for you to make fun of

...but you "agree 100%" with a post telling us that to be optimistic is "demented"?

I’m struggling to see where he said that... apologies if I’m missing that. The context is different to what I’m calling here though.

This is about mental illness being used as a put down. And not once and not in a throwaway comment as part of a bigger post

It's the title of the thread (which is quoted in every post), so not exactly a "throwaway comment as part of a bigger post". It seems to be the key point.

I also think Cairnsman's comment appeared to be an observation, rather than a put down. But if you read it as a put down, how do you not consider the entire op as a put down of every poster on this forum that has an optimistic outlook?

I don’t read the OP as targeting any one individual and he’s describing an idea as demented...
No he's targeting every individual that doesn't have a negative outlook. It seems you don't find this offensive because he's not referring to you.

And demented or dementia isn’t a mental illness and it doesn’t carry the same stigma.
Are you seriously saying that referencing mental illness is offensive, but referencing neurological disorders involving mental decline is ok?
You’re trying to turn this into something it’s not.
No. I'm concerned that you are unaware that the post that you agreed with 1000% is intended to be offensive.
This is not the first time CM has used directed that line to attack people and he has also taken the piss out of R U OK (day) on numerous occasions.


I’m not referencing one post that’s crossed a line but an ongoing joke that’s in bad taste
I'm specifically referencing your post and Cairnsman's post in this thread. There are so many ongoing disputes on this forum that I can't keep up with all of them.

[skeptic]

It's very obvious the OP has depression.

Mental illness isn’t a joke. It’s not funny and it isn’t something you should be using to put people down with as you have repeatedly done over the last few weeks.

Like sexism, there’s been a lot of work going into distigmatising mental illness and jokes like that are not ok. If someone is depressed on this forum, it’s nothing for you to make fun of

...but you "agree 100%" with a post telling us that to be optimistic is "demented"?

I’m struggling to see where he said that... apologies if I’m missing that. The context is different to what I’m calling here though.

This is about mental illness being used as a put down. And not once and not in a throwaway comment as part of a bigger post

It's the title of the thread (which is quoted in every post), so not exactly a "throwaway comment as part of a bigger post". It seems to be the key point.

I also think Cairnsman's comment appeared to be an observation, rather than a put down. But if you read it as a put down, how do you not consider the entire op as a put down of every poster on this forum that has an optimistic outlook?

I don’t read the OP as targeting any one individual and he’s describing an idea as demented...
No he's targeting every individual that doesn't have a negative outlook. It seems you don't find this offensive because he's not referring to you.

And demented or dementia isn’t a mental illness and it doesn’t carry the same stigma.
Are you seriously saying that referencing mental illness is offensive, but referencing neurological disorders involving mental decline is ok?
You’re trying to turn this into something it’s not.
No. I'm concerned that you are unaware that the post that you agreed with 1000% is intended to be offensive.
This is not the first time CM has used directed that line to attack people and he has also taken the piss out of R U OK (day) on numerous occasions.


I’m not referencing one post that’s crossed a line but an ongoing joke that’s in bad taste
I'm specifically referencing your post and Cairnsman's post in this thread. There are so many ongoing disputes on this forum that I can't keep up with all of them.

Demented is not a neurological disorder... you’ve misinterpreted and you’re turning this into something that it isn’t

[satchmo]

It's very obvious the OP has depression.

Mental illness isn’t a joke. It’s not funny and it isn’t something you should be using to put people down with as you have repeatedly done over the last few weeks.

Like sexism, there’s been a lot of work going into distigmatising mental illness and jokes like that are not ok. If someone is depressed on this forum, it’s nothing for you to make fun of

...but you "agree 100%" with a post telling us that to be optimistic is "demented"?

I’m struggling to see where he said that... apologies if I’m missing that. The context is different to what I’m calling here though.

This is about mental illness being used as a put down. And not once and not in a throwaway comment as part of a bigger post

It's the title of the thread (which is quoted in every post), so not exactly a "throwaway comment as part of a bigger post". It seems to be the key point.

I also think Cairnsman's comment appeared to be an observation, rather than a put down. But if you read it as a put down, how do you not consider the entire op as a put down of every poster on this forum that has an optimistic outlook?

I don’t read the OP as targeting any one individual and he’s describing an idea as demented...
No he's targeting every individual that doesn't have a negative outlook. It seems you don't find this offensive because he's not referring to you.

And demented or dementia isn’t a mental illness and it doesn’t carry the same stigma.
Are you seriously saying that referencing mental illness is offensive, but referencing neurological disorders involving mental decline is ok?
You’re trying to turn this into something it’s not.
No. I'm concerned that you are unaware that the post that you agreed with 1000% is intended to be offensive.
This is not the first time CM has used directed that line to attack people and he has also taken the piss out of R U OK (day) on numerous occasions.


I’m not referencing one post that’s crossed a line but an ongoing joke that’s in bad taste
I'm specifically referencing your post and Cairnsman's post in this thread. There are so many ongoing disputes on this forum that I can't keep up with all of them.

Demented is not a neurological disorder... you’ve misinterpreted and you’re turning this into something that it isn’t

Apologies, as I'm not a medical professional like your self, but according to https://www.dementia.org.au "Dementia is the umbrella term for a number of neurological conditions, of which the major symptom includes a global decline in brain function."

I'm not sure what I have "misinterpreted", but I don't believe that you can't see that the use of the word "demented" on a football forum is equally as offensive as the word "depression".

You condemned the use of one term. I would expect you to condemn the use of both terms.

[Aussie Jonestown]

...but you "agree 100%" with a post telling us that to be optimistic is "demented"?

I knew the optimism for Footy First was demented and called it at the time!
Many swallowed the bs hook, line and sinker, defended the club and were full of optimism repeating the spin doctor selling points from a clueless and incompetent administration.
For example, I remember you supporting the positives of the Seaford relocation at the time!
The point is optimism can be misplaced and lead to a false sense of reality!
How can you seriously have a bonafide review process and leave Richardson and Sexton untouched?
It's all window dressing and does not cut the mustard!

You joined this month, yet you remember my posts from years ago?
What name did you post under back then?
If you care to quote the posts that offended you, I will address them.

At least you have highlighted the use of mental illness as a form of abuse.

The point is you were optimistic and supported and defended the clubs position to relocate to Seaford.
Obviously sometimes optimism or blindly trusting and following those making decisions such as this is ridiculous.

Right now the club is a sock puppet of the AFL with people appointed by what process exactly?
The clubs new list manager has worked in the finance industry for the past 12 years and for the last 8 years as a banker. He has never been a list manager ever before and who oversaw this appointment? By what process?
How did he suddenly become the new list manager?
How did Leathlean come to be appointed head of the football department?
What chain of events culminated in him becoming a football department manager when he has never been one previously?
And you're apparently supposed to just support all this nonsense or otherwise you're somehow not a real supporter!!!!!!!!!!

I see many on here saying at least Hannerbury came cheaply
Most likely pick 19 or 20 in next years draft and four years at $800,000 plus a fifth year for Hannerbury!
This is way over for an injury prone player on the decline who was ranked around 355 this year.
They were going to give up pick 4 and next years first rounder, plus 1.3 million a year for six or more years for Shiel. Thankfully Shiel rejected St.Kilda and saved the club from that incompetent stupidity.
Desperate moves to cover for the incompetence of not sacking Richardson because another AFL plant stuffed up by extending his contract.
The lessons of blindly following those in power with perennial optimism is seemingly lost on those who should know better having seen the disaster that was Footy First.

[skeptic]

The op used the term demented to describe excessive emotion. In this case people’s needs to view clearly (their interpretation) negative things and spin them into positives.

You’ve linked the term to my post because you’ve linked demented to Dementia.
This is both incorrect and clearly out context of what the op intended

[satchmo]

...but you "agree 100%" with a post telling us that to be optimistic is "demented"?

I knew the optimism for Footy First was demented and called it at the time!
Many swallowed the bs hook, line and sinker, defended the club and were full of optimism repeating the spin doctor selling points from a clueless and incompetent administration.
For example, I remember you supporting the positives of the Seaford relocation at the time!
The point is optimism can be misplaced and lead to a false sense of reality!
How can you seriously have a bonafide review process and leave Richardson and Sexton untouched?
It's all window dressing and does not cut the mustard!

You joined this month, yet you remember my posts from years ago?
What name did you post under back then?
If you care to quote the posts that offended you, I will address them.

At least you have highlighted the use of mental illness as a form of abuse.

The point is you were optimistic and supported and defended the clubs position to relocate to Seaford.
Obviously sometimes optimism or blindly trusting and following those making decisions such as this is ridiculous.

I was optimistic and supported the clubs move to Frankston. I was dismayed by the last minute change to Seaford, because I thought we'd been conned. New facilities were desperately needed somewhere though, so I'm sure I considered that something of a positive.

With the regards to the rest of your complaints, I don't think I've commented on any of them. I don't pretend to know.

[satchmo]

The op used the term demented to describe excessive emotion. In this case people’s needs to view clearly (their interpretation) negative things and spin them into positives.

You’ve linked the term to my post because you’ve linked demented to Dementia.
This is both incorrect and clearly out context of what the op intended

I may have "linked demented to Dementia", but so does the Oxford dictionary.

The "context of what the op intended" is interesting, compared to the context of what Cairnsman intended.

Given that you've requested a ceasefire in another thread I leave it that.

[saynta]

The op used the term demented to describe excessive emotion. In this case people’s needs to view clearly (their interpretation) negative things and spin them into positives.

You’ve linked the term to my post because you’ve linked demented to Dementia.
This is both incorrect and clearly out context of what the op intended

I may have "linked demented to Dementia", but so does the Oxford dictionary.

The "context of what the op intended" is interesting, compared to the context of what Cairnsman intended.

Given that you've requested a ceasefire in another thread I leave it that.

That's typical behaviour mate. Take 'em on and they either bail or report you to the mods.

[thejiggingsaint]

I rarely, if ever, engage in the politics of playing the man on this forum.

It’s ideas that I take issue with, even though there is a collection of numpties, that is what I call them, who insist on seeing this footy club with rose coloured glasses and a do no wrong attitude.

They sorely deserve a kicking but they are not going to get one from me.

Instead I will take issue with the Mary Poppins like philosophy that proclaims this trade period as a success, the club can do no wrong, our coach is doing a great job, we have the right depth in our playing group, and our present game plan is going to take us to a premiership.

Not only is this kind of thinking wrong, it is dangerous.

Here’s why.

When you acknowledge failure, admit you are wrong and are accountable for it, you can move forward. More importantly you empower yourself to change course, to try a different approach and take a really long hard look at what is causing those failings and do something positive to correct them.

But if you keep insisting that everything is great, nothing to worry about here, our list is strong, we’ve recruited well and anyone who says anything contrary is just being negative and disloyal, then nothing is going to change.

And as a St Kilda supporter, for more than half a century, I feel entitled to say that this is the policy that our club and its spin doctors, both inside and outside of this forum, seems to be advocating.

We’ve had zero accountability from the coach downward for the appalling season we have all just witnessed.

Our rebuild is in tatters. A shambles.

2018 was a massive step backwards. It will take years for us to be back challenging for the eight.

Years. That is a hard and bitter pill to swallow.

So as a loyal supporter, and I am loyal, I would urge this footy club to have a long, serious, objective look at itself and where it is going.

It’s pretty simple. If you don’t learn from history you are condemned to repeat it.

In previous seasons I've found myself being regarded by some posters as a fully paid-up/founding member of the (quaintly titled) "Blue Sky Brigade". I wore the references with a degree of pride. I chose not to vent my disappointment and frustration at results on the pages of this forum, however, I totally respect the right of others to disagree with that approach. This OP is, (IMHO) a very well articulated statement which conveys the feelings of damien toward the directions the club is headed in. I have to say, that the schithouse of a season that was 2018, had me contemplating whether the club could possibly go any worse. The "rose-coloured glasses" were NEVER part of my ensemble...(others may differ, that's their prerogative ) however, I always felt a degree of optimism and faith that the club would turn things round. 2018 season killed off completely any vestiges of optimism or faith in the club, and its true to say that at times I found it SO difficult to drag myself along to games. It was NOT results per-se, but rather the general lack of effort and inertia shown in so many games. I will renew this season (2019) but have cut back from a 16 to an 11 game membership. I am a loyal Sainter, BUT will no longer be a BLINDLY loyal Sainter. I will question EVERYTHING, and believe that anyone who supports the club "without question, and uncritically" does neither the club, nor themselves any credit. I have followed this club since arriving here in Melbourne in 1990.... I could have chosen ANY Victorian club to support.......other than smelbourne (but give THEM time) ANY one of those clubs would have given me a premiership I came to choose the Saints, willingly, without pressure, for a number of reasons (that I don't have the space here to go into) and not for one moment have I regretted the decision. They've broken my heart, they've given me joy. Highs and Lows, Ups and Downs, I love this club IN SPITE of their flaws, and will be a Sainter till they nail down the lid......... BUT from here on in, no more acceptance of anything less than 100% effort and commitment from the staff and board, just as I will give 100% back! THAT is loyalty

GO Saints! (To Hell with the rest)

[skeptic]

The op used the term demented to describe excessive emotion. In this case people’s needs to view clearly (their interpretation) negative things and spin them into positives.

You’ve linked the term to my post because you’ve linked demented to Dementia.
This is both incorrect and clearly out context of what the op intended

I may have "linked demented to Dementia", but so does the Oxford dictionary.

The "context of what the op intended" is interesting, compared to the context of what Cairnsman intended.

Given that you've requested a ceasefire in another thread I leave it that.

Fair enough Satchmo,

For what it’s worth I at least appreciate that this discussion has been more about the sticking point as opposed to taking shots at each other.

Pity not everyone followed suit

[Harvey To Hayes]

It's very obvious the OP has depression.

Mental illness isn’t a joke. It’s not funny and it isn’t something you should be using to put people down with as you have repeatedly done over the last few weeks.

Like sexism, there’s been a lot of work going into distigmatising mental illness and jokes like that are not ok. If someone is depressed on this forum, it’s nothing for you to make fun of

...but you "agree 100%" with a post telling us that to be optimistic is "demented"?

I’m struggling to see where he said that... apologies if I’m missing that. The context is different to what I’m calling here though.

This is about mental illness being used as a put down. And not once and not in a throwaway comment as part of a bigger post

It's the title of the thread (which is quoted in every post), so not exactly a "throwaway comment as part of a bigger post". It seems to be the key point.

I also think Cairnsman's comment appeared to be an observation, rather than a put down. But if you read it as a put down, how do you not consider the entire op as a put down of every poster on this forum that has an optimistic outlook?

I don’t read the OP as targeting any one individual and he’s describing an idea as demented...
No he's targeting every individual that doesn't have a negative outlook. It seems you don't find this offensive because he's not referring to you.

And demented or dementia isn’t a mental illness and it doesn’t carry the same stigma.
Are you seriously saying that referencing mental illness is offensive, but referencing neurological disorders involving mental decline is ok?
You’re trying to turn this into something it’s not.
No. I'm concerned that you are unaware that the post that you agreed with 1000% is intended to be offensive.
This is not the first time CM has used directed that line to attack people and he has also taken the piss out of R U OK (day) on numerous occasions.


I’m not referencing one post that’s crossed a line but an ongoing joke that’s in bad taste
I'm specifically referencing your post and Cairnsman's post in this thread. There are so many ongoing disputes on this forum that I can't keep up with all of them.

Demented is not a neurological disorder... you’ve misinterpreted and you’re turning this into something that it isn’t

You can’t seriously be hardcore virtue signalling about a poster using the term “depression” but completely unwilling to back down on your condoning the use of the term “demented” in a similar context in the very same thread?

[Harvey To Hayes]

It's very obvious the OP has depression.

Mental illness isn’t a joke. It’s not funny and it isn’t something you should be using to put people down with as you have repeatedly done over the last few weeks.

Like sexism, there’s been a lot of work going into distigmatising mental illness and jokes like that are not ok. If someone is depressed on this forum, it’s nothing for you to make fun of

...but you "agree 100%" with a post telling us that to be optimistic is "demented"?

I’m struggling to see where he said that... apologies if I’m missing that. The context is different to what I’m calling here though.

This is about mental illness being used as a put down. And not once and not in a throwaway comment as part of a bigger post

It's the title of the thread (which is quoted in every post), so not exactly a "throwaway comment as part of a bigger post". It seems to be the key point.

I also think Cairnsman's comment appeared to be an observation, rather than a put down. But if you read it as a put down, how do you not consider the entire op as a put down of every poster on this forum that has an optimistic outlook?

I don’t read the OP as targeting any one individual and he’s describing an idea as demented...
No he's targeting every individual that doesn't have a negative outlook. It seems you don't find this offensive because he's not referring to you.

And demented or dementia isn’t a mental illness and it doesn’t carry the same stigma.
Are you seriously saying that referencing mental illness is offensive, but referencing neurological disorders involving mental decline is ok?
You’re trying to turn this into something it’s not.
No. I'm concerned that you are unaware that the post that you agreed with 1000% is intended to be offensive.
This is not the first time CM has used directed that line to attack people and he has also taken the piss out of R U OK (day) on numerous occasions.


I’m not referencing one post that’s crossed a line but an ongoing joke that’s in bad taste
I'm specifically referencing your post and Cairnsman's post in this thread. There are so many ongoing disputes on this forum that I can't keep up with all of them.

Demented is not a neurological disorder... you’ve misinterpreted and you’re turning this into something that it isn’t

Also re OP went to the check out the new Moorabbin set up the other day and the facilities are amazing, I’m coming out as a numpty...

[The Fireman]

well said Jigster.

[The Fireman]

you should have bailed ages ago Skeptic, you have made a dill out of yourself.

the highlight for me was when you came out with this Mental illness isn’t a joke. It’s not funny and it isn’t something you should be using to put people down with as you have repeatedly done over the last few weeks.

Like sexism, there’s been a lot of work going into distigmatising mental illness and jokes like that are not ok. If someone is depressed on this forum, it’s nothing for you to make fun of

and followed up with You’re trying to turn this into something it’s not.

[sunsaint]

That's typical behaviour mate. Take 'em on and they either bail or report you to the mods.

In my experience the "unicorns" disappear in a puff of smoke and the mods suddenly appear in their place

[gwiltyascharged]

Most likely pick 19 or 20 in next years draft and four years at $500,000 plus a fifth year for Hannerbury!

4 years at $800,000.

[gwiltyascharged]

Legitimate optimism = winning > 8 games with a young list.
False optimism = winning < 6 games with an average aged list.

[BackFromUSA]

Legitimate optimism = winning > 8 games with a young list.
False optimism = winning < 6 games with an average aged list.

Our %age was = to 2 teams that won 8 games in 2018.

%age is actually a great indicator of season long performance rather than win / loss ratio IMHO.

[gwiltyascharged]

Legitimate optimism = winning > 8 games with a young list.
False optimism = winning < 6 games with an average aged list.

Our %age was = to 2 teams that won 8 games in 2018.

%age is actually a great indicator of season long performance rather than win / loss ratio IMHO.

How many games did we win? 4

Brisbane won 5.
Freo 8.
Dogs 8.

Here is the AFL 22 under 22 team for 2018.
Notably Brisbane had 3 players in the side. Melbourne 3. Collingwood 3. Essendon 3.
We had only the 1.

http://www.aflplayers.com.au/article/20 ... -unveiled/



No major changes post-season.
The optimism is clearly false. People have every objective right to be pessimistic.
People can also have hope. But it is blind hope.
Important to recognise that and stop giving praise to FIFO administrators who dont deserve the praise.

[groupie1]

I rarely, if ever, engage in the politics of playing the man on this forum.

It’s ideas that I take issue with, even though there is a collection of numpties, that is what I call them, who insist on seeing this footy club with rose coloured glasses and a do no wrong attitude.

They sorely deserve a kicking but they are not going to get one from me.

Instead I will take issue with the Mary Poppins like philosophy that proclaims this trade period as a success, the club can do no wrong, our coach is doing a great job, we have the right depth in our playing group, and our present game plan is going to take us to a premiership.

Not only is this kind of thinking wrong, it is dangerous.

Here’s why.

When you acknowledge failure, admit you are wrong and are accountable for it, you can move forward. More importantly you empower yourself to change course, to try a different approach and take a really long hard look at what is causing those failings and do something positive to correct them.

But if you keep insisting that everything is great, nothing to worry about here, our list is strong, we’ve recruited well and anyone who says anything contrary is just being negative and disloyal, then nothing is going to change.

And as a St Kilda supporter, for more than half a century, I feel entitled to say that this is the policy that our club and its spin doctors, both inside and outside of this forum, seems to be advocating.

We’ve had zero accountability from the coach downward for the appalling season we have all just witnessed.

Our rebuild is in tatters. A shambles.

2018 was a massive step backwards. It will take years for us to be back challenging for the eight.

Years. That is a hard and bitter pill to swallow.

So as a loyal supporter, and I am loyal, I would urge this footy club to have a long, serious, objective look at itself and where it is going.

It’s pretty simple. If you don’t learn from history you are condemned to repeat it.

Hang on.

You're having a go at two groups, here - the club internally and the fans externally

I don't think you're being fair in the club, internally.

While I materially agree with the substance of what you're saying (though not necessarily agree that it cannot be turned around pretty quick), internally, the club has admitted failure, on multiple fronts, and has taken action to acknowledge that... but to go on TV and radio and say stuff like 'we recruited badly', 'our list isn't very good', 'our coaches are useless' would be horrendous PR and horrendous operational policy.

'Our recruiters have done a fantastic job' ... but Trout is departing the club, mutually decided... Goddard has not been offered a contract...

'Our coaches have been great' ... but we've replaced a good number of them...

'Our playing group are made of the right stuff'... but we've delisted the uncontracted duds, let Goddard go, allowed Gilbert to retire after not picking him for every game....

There is a MAJOR disconnect between what club spokespeople - Richo, Lethlean - are saying and what they are doing, which means THEY ARE LYING TO THE MEDIA FOR THE GOOD OF THE CLUB... They are speaking to the players when they say this stuff.

You can't blast players and coaches publicly. It always backfires and is just bad operational strategy

Look at the actions, not the words

BTW... to win a flag you need 16 very good players; a few stars among them helps. We have/had Acres, Billings, Paddy, Dunstan, Goddard, Carlisle, Freeman, Gresham, Clark, Coffield and the other one is DMac, I think, all top 20 picks. Plus pick 5 this year.
On exposed form, two of those are very good players.
2 are gone
6 have the capacity to be very good players (Acres, Billings, Paddy, Clark, Coffield, Pick 5)
DMac is still a wildcard, but at best he could be a bottom-6 type in a good team
Dunstan should have been traded

Had we got all of these picks right, we've brought in 12 very good players the past few yrs, add to Steven, Steele, Roberton, Webster, Hannerbery... chuck in your wildcards in Long and Battle... and you have yourself a good chance at top 4.

Clearly we didn't draft/develop well enough (though Freeman didn't actually cost us a top 20 pick), as only 2 have worked so far.

Let's hope we get pick 5 right, and that in 2019 those other 6 start to show.

[saynta]

pick 4

[asiu]

all optimism gaaaaaaaaawn

awwwwwwwww
poor possums

"Well done ScoMo ......you stopped the votes."

[Cairnsman]

all optimism gaaaaaaaaawn

awwwwwwwww
poor possums

"Well done ScoMo ......you stopped the votes."

That is hilarious dude, is it your creation, I'm going to use it...."stop the votes", comedy gold.

[gwiltyascharged]

SCOMO
"stop the votes"

That really is going to take off. Very good.