Why False Optimism Is Demented And Dangerous

[lewdogs]

The club has gotten rid of about 1/5 of the playing list and most of the senior coaches this off-season. They are clearly doing something about a problem, so why can't people be optimistic about it? Should we continue to bag the club even as they make changes?

[saintadamski]

The club has gotten rid of about 1/5 of the playing list and most of the senior coaches this off-season. They are clearly doing something about a problem, so why can't people be optimistic about it? Should we continue to bag the club even as they make changes?

You can't be serious.

The only player they got rid of who actually played more than 2 senior games was Weller.

You think getting rid of Freeman and Goddard just as they were getting their bodies right was 'doing something about a problem'??

Doing something about a problem would be delisting Newnes, Savage, Armitage, Dunstan, Brown, etc.
Putting Geary in the VFL and trading Paddy.

Then, starting to play and develop the youngsters like Patton every week!!! Rather then destroying their confidence as emergencies.

[Waltzing St Kilda]

Gambling is right.

If you kick it downfield to two equally-matched opponents then you're taking a 50/50 gamble.

If you take a wild shot at goal from the pocket then you're taking a 30/70 gamble.

Successful teams try to take as much gambling out of the game as possible. You play the percentages.
You kick to your dominant players. You try to get the pill into the hands of your best distributors.

Unfortunately I reckon a gambler's philosophy has invaded the club's administration. We'll take a
five-year punt on Hannebury even though he's reportedly clapped out. We'll give a contract
extension to Coach 33% even though no one else is chasing him. We'll take Paddy McBeef as the
number one pick even though no one is saying he's the best player available. We'll back ourselves
to pull out of this mess even though many are saying we need a complete overhaul.

Too much gambling. It's time for decisions that are manifestly correct, unequivocal and watertight.

[elizabethr]

Fanciful ruminations at best.

[Cairnsman]

It's very obvious the OP has depression.

[rodgerfox]

How does false or any sort of optimism from supporters affect the team negatively?

Damienc said, in his OP, that
our club and its spin doctors, both inside and outside of this forum

have a think about it.
The club thinks that the 2 big wins, one against Giants, and the Maddies' Match blowout, shows that they are on the right track.
They delisted Mav, changed a few coaches, brought in some rugby player...
just a bit of tweaking, thinking it's all it needs.
But they keep Sexton, who has been there since Noah was learning to chop wood.
Only manage to get in Hannebery, who may or may not play most of the season, but has question marks over his durability-
so he's a big gamble.
I could argue that keeping Vanilla Richo has discouraged any talent from coming.
And he has been immune from the review, when he should be under the pump and examined with a fine-toothed comb.

This is one of the most insightful posts on this forum in living memory.

Insightful?

It's an opinion. There's not a skerrick of insight.

The only insight is the insight into the staggering naivety of the OP.

[fugazi]

Not on his Pat Malone there.

In the end, it is just footy as my wife tells me.

Been a tough year.

The clear mistake and what hangs over most of our heads as supporters is the reality we are starting 2019 under the same leadership as this year.

Cauterize the wound and move on....now it will be a messy mid year sacking .

There is hope in the playing group, they need a new coach.

[derby Street]

How does false or any sort of optimism from supporters affect the team negatively?

Damienc said, in his OP, that
our club and its spin doctors, both inside and outside of this forum

have a think about it.
The club thinks that the 2 big wins, one against Giants, and the Maddies' Match blowout, shows that they are on the right track.
They delisted Mav, changed a few coaches, brought in some rugby player...
just a bit of tweaking, thinking it's all it needs.
But they keep Sexton, who has been there since Noah was learning to chop wood.
Only manage to get in Hannebery, who may or may not play most of the season, but has question marks over his durability-
so he's a big gamble.
I could argue that keeping Vanilla Richo has discouraged any talent from coming.
And he has been immune from the review, when he should be under the pump and examined with a fine-toothed comb.

This is one of the most insightful posts on this forum in living memory.

One of the most insightful posts in living memory ........... What a load of crap. In the history of SS I am certain there would be many more insightful posts. You are putting the contributions of many SS members over a long period of time down. Stop making irrational statements

[terry smith rules]

Is the op Danny from Droop St the bulldogs supporter who rings up the Coodabeens

We all get different enjoyment from our team and the game and we all have different expectations

It is ridiculous the stress that some posters seem to be under supporting the saints

We have absolutely no control over the result ( except maybe the 04 prelim) so don’t let your expectations overwhelm your life

Obviously the year is terrible and we could be all negative but I enjoy and look forward to the small things. Battle crashing a pack to mark. Long magic, Gresh brilliance etc

It does not make me a numpty , I understand the clubs current limitations and because of my lack of controlling any club process I will not lose any sleep over it.

[st.byron]

The club has gotten rid of about 1/5 of the playing list and most of the senior coaches this off-season. They are clearly doing something about a problem, so why can't people be optimistic about it? Should we continue to bag the club even as they make changes?

See your point. However, the root cause of the problem is still there. i.e Richardson. That and the lack of accountability this demonstrates are the key factors behind posts like the OP and those who agree with it, including me. It’s like trying to be optimistic about reaching a port whilst the incompetent captain remains at the helm. That’s how bad I reckon Richardson is. Others may think differently........fair enough. Everyone has an opinion.
Things could miraculously turn around next year and Richardson could prove me and others wrong. All power to him if he does. Will happily eat my words if we become a vastly improved team.

However at present, on the back of the most disappointing season in recent memory, five years at the helm with 33% win ratio, the deliberate exclusion of Richardson from the post season review (have to ask why?), and an underwhelming trade period hanging our hat at significant expense on a player who looks past his best, it’s hard to be optimistic about next year.

[The Fireman]

It's very obvious the OP has depression.

wish I had written it

but there is a positive.......Collingwood
schadenfreude I know ... but.

[saynta]

numpties ? I know who the f****** numpties are.

I am sick and tired of reading the puerile negative crap posted , by the same posters, I might add, on a daily basis.

I f****** hope that they are made to eat their shitty words next year.

Want to destroy a great cub, keep up with your negative crap. You are no better that carscum or filth supporters who usually eat their own in down years.

[saynta]

How does false or any sort of optimism from supporters affect the team negatively?

Damienc said, in his OP, that
our club and its spin doctors, both inside and outside of this forum
.

To be honest I didn’t read past “numpties”

Unfortunately, I did.

[dragit]

Damo is normally a pretty positive poster, but is clearly sick of the absurd spin from a couple… maybe it makes some people feel better, I find claiming a C grade is a distinction insulting, similar to saying richo is doing a good job when he is literally one of the worst performing coaches in the history of the sport.

As saintmatt said, things are never as bad or good as they seem… but being stuck with a coach who is only still in charge because of a vital administrate error makes it hard to stay upbeat about the short term.

I reckon if we'd put in a new coach, 95% of people would be feeling a lot more positive about next year.

After publicly claiming we had the talent to challenge two years in a row and then putting up 4 wins, richo needs to go.

[lewdogs]

The club has gotten rid of about 1/5 of the playing list and most of the senior coaches this off-season. They are clearly doing something about a problem, so why can't people be optimistic about it? Should we continue to bag the club even as they make changes?

You can't be serious.

The only player they got rid of who actually played more than 2 senior games was Weller.

You think getting rid of Freeman and Goddard just as they were getting their bodies right was 'doing something about a problem'??

Doing something about a problem would be delisting Newnes, Savage, Armitage, Dunstan, Brown, etc.
Putting Geary in the VFL and trading Paddy.

Then, starting to play and develop the youngsters like Patton every week!!! Rather then destroying their confidence as emergencies.

You clearly view everything the club does as negative. The simple fact is that Freeman and Goddard weren't good enough along with the others that were delisted. A bloke like Newnes has actually shown a lot at AFL level - had a terrible season last year but there may be more to it.

The fact that you think we should de-list Savage but keep Freeman suggests you're not actually rating the players on their ability. I mean in terms of Savage, Newnes and Dunstan, all those players have shown they are capable at AFL level so at worst they are good depth.

But yes, let's delist half the playing list. That will help.

[lewdogs]

Damo is normally a pretty positive poster, but is clearly sick of the absurd spin from a couple… maybe it makes some people feel better, I find claiming a C grade is a distinction insulting, similar to saying richo is doing a good job when he is literally one of the worst performing coaches in the history of the sport.

As saintmatt said, things are never as bad or good as they seem… but being stuck with a coach who is only still in charge because of a vital administrate error makes it hard to stay upbeat about the short term.

I reckon if we'd put in a new coach, 95% of people would be feeling a lot more positive about next year.

After publicly claiming we had the talent to challenge two years in a row and then putting up 4 wins, richo needs to go.

They have changed the team around Richo to see if it makes a difference. We have brought in quality assistants in Ratten, Lade, Batchelor. If we have a similar start next year then we will know it's Richo and he will be gone.

The approach isn't the gung ho one that some supporters want but it actually makes sense.

[skeptic]

It's very obvious the OP has depression.

Mental illness isn’t a joke. It’s not funny and it isn’t something you should be using to put people down with as you have repeatedly done over the last few weeks.

Like sexism, there’s been a lot of work going into distigmatising mental illness and jokes like that are not ok. If someone is depressed on this forum, it’s nothing for you to make fun of

[dragit]

Damo is normally a pretty positive poster, but is clearly sick of the absurd spin from a couple… maybe it makes some people feel better, I find claiming a C grade is a distinction insulting, similar to saying richo is doing a good job when he is literally one of the worst performing coaches in the history of the sport.

As saintmatt said, things are never as bad or good as they seem… but being stuck with a coach who is only still in charge because of a vital administrate error makes it hard to stay upbeat about the short term.

I reckon if we'd put in a new coach, 95% of people would be feeling a lot more positive about next year.

After publicly claiming we had the talent to challenge two years in a row and then putting up 4 wins, richo needs to go.

They have changed the team around Richo to see if it makes a difference. We have brought in quality assistants in Ratten, Lade, Batchelor. If we have a similar start next year then we will know it's Richo and he will be gone.

The approach isn't the gung ho one that some supporters want but it actually makes sense.

I think we're all on the same page that: if richo had not have been extended a year too early then he would not be the coach right now.

So we are masking a huge blunder by replacing everyone around him, maybe they all needed replacing anyway, but the guy who should take ultimate responsibility is not leaving because our board made a huge error.

[Yorkeys]

Either we win at a consistent 50/50 rate or better from the start of next year until at least until half way through the season or AR will go. Club has reluctantly kept him on. Without access to Board minutes we can't be sure of the factors that outweighed AR's poor record. My guess is incoming Chair wanted to test the advice of outgoing Chair, Finnis and Richo before doing something irrevocable but insisted on new assistants and better list management. The messages I have been getting from the Club are along the line of please hang in there with us we won't let 2018 be repeated; they come across as a bit desperate (Finnis rightfully nervous?). But what the heck, what's one more year of marching to the tune of false optimism. Watch out for that cliff, but, bandleader

[satchmo]

It's very obvious the OP has depression.

Mental illness isn’t a joke. It’s not funny and it isn’t something you should be using to put people down with as you have repeatedly done over the last few weeks.

Like sexism, there’s been a lot of work going into distigmatising mental illness and jokes like that are not ok. If someone is depressed on this forum, it’s nothing for you to make fun of

...but you "agree 100%" with a post telling us that to be optimistic is "demented"?

[skeptic]

It's very obvious the OP has depression.

Mental illness isn’t a joke. It’s not funny and it isn’t something you should be using to put people down with as you have repeatedly done over the last few weeks.

Like sexism, there’s been a lot of work going into distigmatising mental illness and jokes like that are not ok. If someone is depressed on this forum, it’s nothing for you to make fun of

...but you "agree 100%" with a post telling us that to be optimistic is "demented"?

I’m struggling to see where he said that... apologies if I’m missing that. The context is different to what I’m calling here though.

This is about mental illness being used as a put down. And not once and not in a throwaway comment as part of a bigger post

[satchmo]

It's very obvious the OP has depression.

Mental illness isn’t a joke. It’s not funny and it isn’t something you should be using to put people down with as you have repeatedly done over the last few weeks.

Like sexism, there’s been a lot of work going into distigmatising mental illness and jokes like that are not ok. If someone is depressed on this forum, it’s nothing for you to make fun of

...but you "agree 100%" with a post telling us that to be optimistic is "demented"?

I’m struggling to see where he said that... apologies if I’m missing that. The context is different to what I’m calling here though.

This is about mental illness being used as a put down. And not once and not in a throwaway comment as part of a bigger post

It's the title of the thread (which is quoted in every post), so not exactly a "throwaway comment as part of a bigger post". It seems to be the key point.

I also think Cairnsman's comment appeared to be an observation, rather than a put down. But if you read it as a put down, how do you not consider the entire op as a put down of every poster on this forum that has an optimistic outlook?

[Aussie Jonestown]

...but you "agree 100%" with a post telling us that to be optimistic is "demented"?

I knew the optimism for Footy First was demented and called it at the time!
Many swallowed the bs hook, line and sinker, defended the club and were full of optimism repeating the spin doctor selling points from a clueless and incompetent administration.
For example, I remember you supporting the positives of the Seaford relocation at the time!
The point is optimism can be misplaced and lead to a false sense of reality!
How can you seriously have a bonafide review process and leave Richardson and Sexton untouched?
It's all window dressing and does not cut the mustard!

[satchmo]

...but you "agree 100%" with a post telling us that to be optimistic is "demented"?

I knew the optimism for Footy First was demented and called it at the time!
Many swallowed the bs hook, line and sinker, defended the club and were full of optimism repeating the spin doctor selling points from a clueless and incompetent administration.
For example, I remember you supporting the positives of the Seaford relocation at the time!
The point is optimism can be misplaced and lead to a false sense of reality!
How can you seriously have a bonafide review process and leave Richardson and Sexton untouched?
It's all window dressing and does not cut the mustard!

You joined this month, yet you remember my posts from years ago?
What name did you post under back then?
If you care to quote the posts that offended you, I will address them.

At least you have highlighted the use of mental illness as a form of abuse.

[Cairnsman]

It's very obvious the OP has depression.

Mental illness isn’t a joke. It’s not funny and it isn’t something you should be using to put people down with as you have repeatedly done over the last few weeks.

Like sexism, there’s been a lot of work going into distigmatising mental illness and jokes like that are not ok. If someone is depressed on this forum, it’s nothing for you to make fun of

...but you "agree 100%" with a post telling us that to be optimistic is "demented"?

I’m struggling to see where he said that... apologies if I’m missing that. The context is different to what I’m calling here though.

This is about mental illness being used as a put down. And not once and not in a throwaway comment as part of a bigger post

Dementia isn't a joke either so let's not get too precious. It wasn't a put down, merely an observation, the OP has appeared to become very dark of recent times, there are also other posters that start threads on a very regular basis that are repetitive in nature and have a very dark tone about them, it's one thing to make a point but to consistently make the same dark point in an obsessive manner raises questions about where the posters menatal health is at. It's not normal behaviour and I just think sometimes people can benefit from honest feedback.