Why False Optimism Is Demented And Dangerous

[damienc]

I rarely, if ever, engage in the politics of playing the man on this forum.

It’s ideas that I take issue with, even though there is a collection of numpties, that is what I call them, who insist on seeing this footy club with rose coloured glasses and a do no wrong attitude.

They sorely deserve a kicking but they are not going to get one from me.

Instead I will take issue with the Mary Poppins like philosophy that proclaims this trade period as a success, the club can do no wrong, our coach is doing a great job, we have the right depth in our playing group, and our present game plan is going to take us to a premiership.

Not only is this kind of thinking wrong, it is dangerous.

Here’s why.

When you acknowledge failure, admit you are wrong and are accountable for it, you can move forward. More importantly you empower yourself to change course, to try a different approach and take a really long hard look at what is causing those failings and do something positive to correct them.

But if you keep insisting that everything is great, nothing to worry about here, our list is strong, we’ve recruited well and anyone who says anything contrary is just being negative and disloyal, then nothing is going to change.

And as a St Kilda supporter, for more than half a century, I feel entitled to say that this is the policy that our club and its spin doctors, both inside and outside of this forum, seems to be advocating.

We’ve had zero accountability from the coach downward for the appalling season we have all just witnessed.

Our rebuild is in tatters. A shambles.

2018 was a massive step backwards. It will take years for us to be back challenging for the eight.

Years. That is a hard and bitter pill to swallow.

So as a loyal supporter, and I am loyal, I would urge this footy club to have a long, serious, objective look at itself and where it is going.

It’s pretty simple. If you don’t learn from history you are condemned to repeat it.

[skeptic]

Agree 1000%

I’ll say what I’ve already said a dozen times before...
Things are not all grim, there is some talent there but there’s also a lot of things that aren’t working well and aren’t the future.

What I want is the club to give me a sign that they’ve identified these things and will change it up accordingly.

My concern is that rather than take control they’ll go down the hope it works out path.

After 5 years of it not working out, I have little hope that suddenly Richo, Armitage, Longer, Savage, Dunstan, Paddy, and Newnes are going to suddenly turn it on and turn out to have been the answers all along.

A few of them might sure... certainly there are good qualities there but there are a lot of reasonable concerns too

[st.byron]

Great OP Damien. Straight to the guts of it.
Zero accountability from the head coach downwards. Unwilling to address the real primary issue. Once that position is adopted, everything revolves a core of BS.

[rodgerfox]

But if you keep insisting that everything is great, nothing to worry about here, our list is strong, we’ve recruited well and anyone who says anything contrary is just being negative and disloyal, then nothing is going to change.

Can I ask who has said that?

[damienc]

But if you keep insisting that everything is great, nothing to worry about here, our list is strong, we’ve recruited well and anyone who says anything contrary is just being negative and disloyal, then nothing is going to change.

Can I ask who has said that?

If you read, what I wrote, in its entirety, you would not be asking that question.

[Cairnsman]

I've been putting a bit of thought into this false optimism claim and it got me thinking, what is the opposite of "false optimism"?, is it "true optimism", and is it less demented and less dangerous than false optimism?, and then I found myself really wondering, well how many types of optimism are there, is it possible to define one's self in more than one category of optimism, or are we required to be strictly wedded to one type of optimism. Who know's what the right path is in the end, however surely we can take solace in the knowledge that irrespective of what type of optimism you align with, in the end all you need to know is, life is short, don't over think it and get some balance.

[takeaway]

I rarely, if ever, engage in the politics of playing the man on this forum.

It’s ideas that I take issue with, even though there is a collection of numpties, that is what I call them, who insist on seeing this footy club with rose coloured glasses and a do no wrong attitude.

They sorely deserve a kicking but they are not going to get one from me.

Instead I will take issue with the Mary Poppins like philosophy that proclaims this trade period as a success, the club can do no wrong, our coach is doing a great job, we have the right depth in our playing group, and our present game plan is going to take us to a premiership.

Not only is this kind of thinking wrong, it is dangerous.

Here’s why.

When you acknowledge failure, admit you are wrong and are accountable for it, you can move forward. More importantly you empower yourself to change course, to try a different approach and take a really long hard look at what is causing those failings and do something positive to correct them.

But if you keep insisting that everything is great, nothing to worry about here, our list is strong, we’ve recruited well and anyone who says anything contrary is just being negative and disloyal, then nothing is going to change.

And as a St Kilda supporter, for more than half a century, I feel entitled to say that this is the policy that our club and its spin doctors, both inside and outside of this forum, seems to be advocating.

We’ve had zero accountability from the coach downward for the appalling season we have all just witnessed.

Our rebuild is in tatters. A shambles.

2018 was a massive step backwards. It will take years for us to be back challenging for the eight.

Years. That is a hard and bitter pill to swallow.

So as a loyal supporter, and I am loyal, I would urge this footy club to have a long, serious, objective look at itself and where it is going.

It’s pretty simple. If you don’t learn from history you are condemned to repeat it.

I cannot recall anyone on here insisting that everything is great. Some posts are positive, some are negative. Human nature. You can't call the positives "numpties" because that has been reserved for the "negative numpties." Goes better.
What about the positive pea-heads?

I would argue that those continually whinging about, and to the club are just as much of a problem as the ones that accept everything blindly. As a poster on BF said - "the club could be handing out gold bars to every member, but still a lot would complain because the queue was too long or the bars were too heavy".

I have a more positive outlook re the state of the club - certainly a way to go, but a lot of good off field changes have happened, and a reasonable draft period considering our poor hand going in, pick 4 and not much else, and not much trading currency due to ladder position. But that is all covered in other threads.

[damienc]

I rarely, if ever, engage in the politics of playing the man on this forum.

It’s ideas that I take issue with, even though there is a collection of numpties, that is what I call them, who insist on seeing this footy club with rose coloured glasses and a do no wrong attitude.

They sorely deserve a kicking but they are not going to get one from me.

Instead I will take issue with the Mary Poppins like philosophy that proclaims this trade period as a success, the club can do no wrong, our coach is doing a great job, we have the right depth in our playing group, and our present game plan is going to take us to a premiership.

Not only is this kind of thinking wrong, it is dangerous.

Here’s why.

When you acknowledge failure, admit you are wrong and are accountable for it, you can move forward. More importantly you empower yourself to change course, to try a different approach and take a really long hard look at what is causing those failings and do something positive to correct them.

But if you keep insisting that everything is great, nothing to worry about here, our list is strong, we’ve recruited well and anyone who says anything contrary is just being negative and disloyal, then nothing is going to change.

And as a St Kilda supporter, for more than half a century, I feel entitled to say that this is the policy that our club and its spin doctors, both inside and outside of this forum, seems to be advocating.

We’ve had zero accountability from the coach downward for the appalling season we have all just witnessed.

Our rebuild is in tatters. A shambles.

2018 was a massive step backwards. It will take years for us to be back challenging for the eight.

Years. That is a hard and bitter pill to swallow.

So as a loyal supporter, and I am loyal, I would urge this footy club to have a long, serious, objective look at itself and where it is going.

It’s pretty simple. If you don’t learn from history you are condemned to repeat it.

I cannot recall anyone on here insisting that everything is great. Some posts are positive, some are negative. Human nature. You can't call the positives "numpties" because that has been reserved for the "negative numpties." Goes better.
What about the positive pea-heads?

I would argue that those continually whinging about, and to the club are just as much of a problem as the ones that accept everything blindly. As a poster on BF said - "the club could be handing out gold bars to every member, but still a lot would complain because the queue was too long or the bars were too heavy".

I have a more positive outlook re the state of the club - certainly a way to go, but a lot of good off field changes have happened, and a reasonable draft period considering our poor hand going in, pick 4 and not much else, and not much trading currency due to ladder position. But that is all covered in other threads.

I rest my case.

[Cairnsman]

I think it's linked to depression...

[kosifantutti]

How does false or any sort of optimism from supporters affect the team negatively?

[tedtheodorelogan2018]

Takeaway said it well.

No one thinks the club is perfect and does everything well, but to continually carpet bomb and smash the club without acknowledging the positives, the things they do well, the good people they have and keep, and the things they are amending is the biggest problem.

The over the top negativity from some is a form of depression. Don't let a footy club get you that down. Much more to life. Kiss your wife and kids instead of thinking about how many posessions Hannerbrey will average in 2019.

[Darth Vader]

Dangerous? Bit emotive. As supporters (as opposed to club officials) we would do far more damage by being overly negative than overly positive. Those non-renewed memberships hurt.

[takeaway]

I rarely, if ever, engage in the politics of playing the man on this forum.

It’s ideas that I take issue with, even though there is a collection of numpties, that is what I call them, who insist on seeing this footy club with rose coloured glasses and a do no wrong attitude.

They sorely deserve a kicking but they are not going to get one from me.

Instead I will take issue with the Mary Poppins like philosophy that proclaims this trade period as a success, the club can do no wrong, our coach is doing a great job, we have the right depth in our playing group, and our present game plan is going to take us to a premiership.

Not only is this kind of thinking wrong, it is dangerous.

Here’s why.

When you acknowledge failure, admit you are wrong and are accountable for it, you can move forward. More importantly you empower yourself to change course, to try a different approach and take a really long hard look at what is causing those failings and do something positive to correct them.

But if you keep insisting that everything is great, nothing to worry about here, our list is strong, we’ve recruited well and anyone who says anything contrary is just being negative and disloyal, then nothing is going to change.

And as a St Kilda supporter, for more than half a century, I feel entitled to say that this is the policy that our club and its spin doctors, both inside and outside of this forum, seems to be advocating.

We’ve had zero accountability from the coach downward for the appalling season we have all just witnessed.

Our rebuild is in tatters. A shambles.

2018 was a massive step backwards. It will take years for us to be back challenging for the eight.

Years. That is a hard and bitter pill to swallow.

So as a loyal supporter, and I am loyal, I would urge this footy club to have a long, serious, objective look at itself and where it is going.

It’s pretty simple. If you don’t learn from history you are condemned to repeat it.

I cannot recall anyone on here insisting that everything is great. Some posts are positive, some are negative. Human nature. You can't call the positives "numpties" because that has been reserved for the "negative numpties." Goes better.
What about the positive pea-heads?

I would argue that those continually whinging about, and to the club are just as much of a problem as the ones that accept everything blindly. As a poster on BF said - "the club could be handing out gold bars to every member, but still a lot would complain because the queue was too long or the bars were too heavy".

I have a more positive outlook re the state of the club - certainly a way to go, but a lot of good off field changes have happened, and a reasonable draft period considering our poor hand going in, pick 4 and not much else, and not much trading currency due to ladder position. But that is all covered in other threads.

I rest my case.

OK. Case dismissed. Please do not waste the Court's time again Mr Advocate.

[WellardSaint]

How does false or any sort of optimism from supporters affect the team negatively?

Damienc said, in his OP, that
our club and its spin doctors, both inside and outside of this forum

have a think about it.
The club thinks that the 2 big wins, one against Giants, and the Maddies' Match blowout, shows that they are on the right track.
They delisted Mav, changed a few coaches, brought in some rugby player...
just a bit of tweaking, thinking it's all it needs.
But they keep Sexton, who has been there since Noah was learning to chop wood.
Only manage to get in Hannebery, who may or may not play most of the season, but has question marks over his durability-
so he's a big gamble.
I could argue that keeping Vanilla Richo has discouraged any talent from coming.
And he has been immune from the review, when he should be under the pump and examined with a fine-toothed comb.

This is one of the most insightful posts on this forum in living memory.

[supersaints2]

Winstin Churchill said
"a pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."

I don't think that posters who are opptomistic are any different than those that are eternal pessimists... it's just a point of view so why would you be upset that some people have a different point of view?
Your wasting your energy now that's ...Seriosly demented and dangerous.... you may need help

[The Fireman]

I'm depressed

[guitars4]

I'm depressed

Yeah me too

[samuraisaint]

How does false or any sort of optimism from supporters affect the team negatively?

Damienc said, in his OP, that
our club and its spin doctors, both inside and outside of this forum

have a think about it.
The club thinks that the 2 big wins, one against Giants, and the Maddies' Match blowout, shows that they are on the right track.
They delisted Mav, changed a few coaches, brought in some rugby player...
just a bit of tweaking, thinking it's all it needs.
But they keep Sexton, who has been there since Noah was learning to chop wood.
Only manage to get in Hannebery, who may or may not play most of the season, but has question marks over his durability-
so he's a big gamble.
I could argue that keeping Vanilla Richo has discouraged any talent from coming.
And he has been immune from the review, when he should be under the pump and examined with a fine-toothed comb.

This is one of the most insightful posts on this forum in living memory.

Sexton should definitely have gone in my opinion.

[kosifantutti]

How does false or any sort of optimism from supporters affect the team negatively?

Damienc said, in his OP, that
our club and its spin doctors, both inside and outside of this forum
.

To be honest I didn’t read past “numpties”

[Enrico_Misso]

We had a review of all positions - except the coach!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Trev from the Bush]

I'm just worried which club damienc is going to follow this year. Couldn't possibly be StKilda. And I am struggling to balance his understanding of what a "fan" is; as in "fan forum". If he believes it is OK to label anybody who sees the sunny side of the StKilda Football Club a "numpty", perhaps his energy is best served spruiking for, say, the Australian Republican Movement. Or any other group that sees themselves as intellectually superior to those (like me) who (a) have a life of my own to live and (b) will follow the StKFC unconditionally. Perhaps I am one of his "numpties" - even though I have steadfastly refused to post over the trade period. Like others who see themselves as intellectually superior, the damienc's of the world always resort to abuse or denigration when individuals express any opinion rather than nodding in agreement with their opinion.

And people like that really give me the Edgar Britt's!

[chico2001]

Takeaway said it well.

No one thinks the club is perfect and does everything well, but to continually carpet bomb and smash the club without acknowledging the positives, the things they do well, the good people they have and keep, and the things they are amending is the biggest problem.

The over the top negativity from some is a form of depression. Don't let a footy club get you that down. Much more to life. Kiss your wife and kids instead of thinking about how many posessions Hannerbrey will average in 2019.

You do...…. and when I read that post , he was talking about you and 1/2 of your supporters carpet bombing the forum with rubbish how about how good the club has been going and how good they are going to be and the star administrators we have.

[SaintPav]

Much more to life. Kiss your wife and kids instead of thinking about how many posessions Hannerbrey will average in 2019.

Lol.

Err. Ok.

[Saintmatt]

I rarely, if ever, engage in the politics of playing the man on this forum.

It’s ideas that I take issue with, even though there is a collection of numpties, that is what I call them, who insist on seeing this footy club with rose coloured glasses and a do no wrong attitude.

They sorely deserve a kicking but they are not going to get one from me.

Instead I will take issue with the Mary Poppins like philosophy that proclaims this trade period as a success, the club can do no wrong, our coach is doing a great job, we have the right depth in our playing group, and our present game plan is going to take us to a premiership.

Not only is this kind of thinking wrong, it is dangerous.

Here’s why.

When you acknowledge failure, admit you are wrong and are accountable for it, you can move forward. More importantly you empower yourself to change course, to try a different approach and take a really long hard look at what is causing those failings and do something positive to correct them.

But if you keep insisting that everything is great, nothing to worry about here, our list is strong, we’ve recruited well and anyone who says anything contrary is just being negative and disloyal, then nothing is going to change.

And as a St Kilda supporter, for more than half a century, I feel entitled to say that this is the policy that our club and its spin doctors, both inside and outside of this forum, seems to be advocating.

We’ve had zero accountability from the coach downward for the appalling season we have all just witnessed.

Our rebuild is in tatters. A shambles.

2018 was a massive step backwards. It will take years for us to be back challenging for the eight.

Years. That is a hard and bitter pill to swallow.

So as a loyal supporter, and I am loyal, I would urge this footy club to have a long, serious, objective look at itself and where it is going.

It’s pretty simple. If you don’t learn from history you are condemned to repeat it.

[Saintmatt]

Largely agree with OP. The only thing I’ll temper it with is that it’s rarely as bad or as good as it actually is. Sadly - this might be the rare one though. We stink on all metrics and we refuse to acknowledge our sins. Sad.