Hickey to Wet Coke

[Spinner]

Wow surprise at the Hickey backlash.

Thought it was a great trade and so surprised we even got pick 39 for him! Played reserves most of the last couple of years otherwise injured.

[skeptic]

West Coast have done well, they effectively swapped Lycett for Hickey, gained a 1st round pick and lost a 2nd round pick.

Admins win premierships..

This...

People are doing more with less and ppl here are cheering us for at best breaking even.

It’s mind boggling to me.

Some emotional forumites here would cheer us all the way out of existence

[skeptic]

Recruiters are firing up again and their finest is on display....hey take a really decent ruckman for our some sh!te pick #39 , oh and wait, let us give you our pick #60 because we are so scared we won't get that f@cking valuable pick #39!!!!!!!

If any club member can see this trade and regardless of the player not see how pathetic the team has become you're blind.

The denial is alarming isn’t it..?

The thing is, it’s not about Hickey per’se... it’s about the deal. We should have been able to leverage that.

All these threads about hating Essendon and Deldaro (or whatever his f’ing name is)...
Do ppl understand why we hate him... it’s because he WINS. He gets players to go to that club and he bends over the seller/buyer to get them to overbuy or undersell.

Essendon have won every trade they’ve done with us in the last 10 years... a first rounder for Lovett, they got more than they should have been able to for Carlisle considering he wanted to go and nominated us... and Goddard, well they landed a excellent free agent which we have yet to be able to do.

If you’re not concerned that they get results like this and we’re making mediocre deals like this... blind as they come

Surely you’re not serious about them winning the Carlisle trade? The same one that got us Gresham as well?

Just to be clear... not saying we lost the trade or the outcome was bad... I’m talking about what we gave up to get an uncontracted player that nominated us.

We gave up a first rounder... if roles were reversed, Essendon would have made us trade their second, much like Collingwood shafted us with Ball.

There’s a very clear trick to dealing with the Saints... low ball us, say you won’t budge and watch us fold

Have you forgotten that Hawthorn were hot on his tail - that forced our hand.

Sure... but the point is the lead pattern. We’re not winning these deals. Our trading isn’t shrewd at all. The whole point of this process is to come out ahead, improve the list... other clubs are doing it consistently... we’re consistently underachieving

[samuraisaint]

I really thought we had a decent ruckman in Hickey in 2016, but he just faded into near obscurity. I think we did really well in finding a suitor who was willing to give up as much as a second-round pick. Hickey would be pretty stoked to be joining the reigning premiers and bask in the Perth sunshine. It's a win-win for both the club and Hickey. If WCE can turn him into a good, consistent ruckman, then I'll tip my hat to them.

I am furious at the club for giving up the opportunity to get a pick in the low 20s for this trade. Opportunity gone begging. But I am going to go with a glass half full approach: Pick #39 will go to Sydney for Hannebury or Melbourne for Kent anyway.

Hickey would be rapt. He will now get a game every week at a strong club, in an excellent coaching system, as Lycett is gone and Natanui won't play next year. He just needs to not get injured (which he is prone to do let's be honest) and he will be right. St. Kilda now don't have to worry about which ruckman to play every week. That will now be Longer (if he gets another contract), with Pierce to keep developing, and Marshall will play at Full Forward offering the chop out in the ruck. No more gifted games to Paddy, because Bruce will be back and we also have Battle.

If Lonie stays he will need to keep building on his reasonable form in the last month of this season, because he will have stiff competition from Long and Kent to keep his place.

I would really prefer it if none of the players coming out of contract were re-signed to be honest (apart from Lonie) although I can see a scenario where Longer is re-signed. Also needs to be more of a turnover with our assistant coaches.

Get Roberton back, pick Rankine at #4 in the draft, hopefully more improvement from Gresh, Billings, Acres and Ross, a more consistent season from Big Jake, and we will gradually improve. I liked what I saw from Coffield, Clarke, Phillips and Rice, so there's a bit to work with.

Given all you just said... why don't we trade Paddy? Paddy and Weller to GC for a top 10 pick

Think Paddy can still be a handy player for us. He's not going to be another Riewoldt or Gehrig, but if he can avoid getting himself injured he could develop into a good player. The gifting of senior games should not continue though. They need to be earned through exposed form. We need to start winning games regularly and Marshall showed reasonable form in the last 6 games.

I say 'reasonable' in the cases of both Lonie and Marshall because we failed to win even a single game in our last six matches, so they haven't identified themselves as possible match winners yet. There are lots of 'coulds' on our list and I put this down to coaching, development and work, not the absence of raw talent.

[satchmo]

Player and club had obviously agreed to part. In that case, getting anything for him is a win. If we demand too much, they pass and pickup another average ruckman, and we keep someone that we don't want/doesn't want to be there.

You can stamp your foot and claim he's worth more, but no-one is offering more.
You take what you can get, move him on, and get over it.

[bigcarl]

I really thought we had a decent ruckman in Hickey in 2016, but he just faded into near obscurity. I think we did really well in finding a suitor who was willing to give up as much as a second-round pick. Hickey would be pretty stoked to be joining the reigning premiers and bask in the Perth sunshine. It's a win-win for both the club and Hickey. If WCE can turn him into a good, consistent ruckman, then I'll tip my hat to them.

Faded into near obscurity because Richo, in his wisdom, decided Longer was ahead of him.

Wouldn’t do much for your confidence to be replaced by someone who can’t get a kick.

I fear we have ballsed this one up badly. Got rid of our best ruckman for pick 39

[rodgerfox]

The gifting of senior games should not continue though. They need to be earned through exposed form. We need to start winning games regularly and Marshall showed reasonable form in the last 6 games.

Richo is apparently famous for his 'selection integrity'. The media talk about, the club talks about it, players talk about it.

So if we take that on face value - you have to assume that these players are actually doing exactly what the coach is asking of them.


And therein lies the problem.

[rodgerfox]

Hickeys dog is gonna be heartbroken. Anyone think of their welfare?
Nah, pick 39 + bonuses is fair.
We need some pick leverage.

We didn't get bonuses though, we upgraded a pick 60 into 39 and downgraded a 4th rounder next year.

A putrid return.

EXACTLY. We gave them Hickey, which is what they wanted, AND the steak knives for Pick 39.

It's not about the value of Hickey, or the picks. It's about the principal. WE held the bargaining power, and yet ended up giving more than we should have. Putrid.

How do we know we held bargaining power?

There were a couple of other rucks being talked about from other clubs other than Hickey. He played 18 games in two years, and we have Marshall, Pearce and Longer also on our list. Pearce and Marshall are CLEARLY better prospects and you would absolutely keep them ahead of Hickey.

I'd far prefer to have offloaded Longer before Hickey, but I think to be able to get anything for either of them whilst keeping the other two is a great result.


And regardless, it all depends on what happens with pick 39 anyway. Pick 6 for Carlisle is a decent swap - but pick 6 and 24 for Carlisle and Gresham is a great deal. You can't judge a deal until the whole thing is wrapped up.

[wally]

Don't know if this was mentioned already but.. We gave pick 13 in 2012 for Hickey, 5yrs of development and out the door
for pick 39. In that draft Brodie Grundy went pick 18

[bigred]

I actually think that sums up our player development right there Wally.

[dragit]

Pearce and Marshall are CLEARLY better prospects and you would absolutely keep them ahead of Hickey.

This is a massive stretch, Pierce has played 4 average games in 6 years, Marshall looks like a forward who can chop out in the ruck.

[stonecold]

I actually think that sums up our player development right there Wally.

The player has to be good enough to develop, which Hickledik is clearly not!!!!!

[spert]

Anyways thanks Tom and good luck for the future. A pity you had to try and establish yourself under a regime of poor development and crap coaching.

[rodgerfox]

Pearce and Marshall are CLEARLY better prospects and you would absolutely keep them ahead of Hickey.

This is a massive stretch, Pierce has played 4 average games in 6 years, Marshall looks like a forward who can chop out in the ruck.

	Hickey	Pierce
Games	79	4
Age	28	24
Kicks per Game (2018)	5.7	3.0
Marks per Game (2018)	3.1	2.3
Handballs per Game (2018)	8.8	8.3
Hitouts per Game (2018)	24.2	19.3

I reckon he beat Bellchambers, wasn't disgraced by McEvoy - and was flogged by Goldstein.

For a dude who has played 4 games in his career, and appeared unfit, he has enormous upside in my opinion.


As I said, I'd rather have kept Hickey and moved Longer on - but I simply can't see how or why anyone would take Longer. Where I will get dirty, is if they keep giving games to Longer.

I absolutely think Pierce and Marshall is our best option based on what we've seen from Hickey and Longer in the past few seasons - but if Longer is in the team then I think they've clearly made an error. If they play Marshall and Pierce though, I have no issue at all with off loading a ruckman.

[stonecold]

Anyways thanks Tom and good luck for the future. A pity you had to try and establish yourself under a regime of poor development and crap coaching.

Tom has had two clubs to develop and hasn't, Full Stop, sometimes players just ain't good enough!!!!!

All the best to him, in the WAFL!!!!!

[Sainternist]

I really thought we had a decent ruckman in Hickey in 2016, but he just faded into near obscurity. I think we did really well in finding a suitor who was willing to give up as much as a second-round pick. Hickey would be pretty stoked to be joining the reigning premiers and bask in the Perth sunshine. It's a win-win for both the club and Hickey. If WCE can turn him into a good, consistent ruckman, then I'll tip my hat to them.

Faded into near obscurity because Richo, in his wisdom, decided Longer was ahead of him.

Wouldn’t do much for your confidence to be replaced by someone who can’t get a kick.

I fear we have ballsed this one up badly. Got rid of our best ruckman for pick 39

Incorrect. Hickey has been a downhill skier, that's why he had trouble getting a game. Remember his game against Essendon in 2017? One of the most heartless displays from a Saints player in recent memory.

[SydneySainter]

I actually think that sums up our player development right there Wally.

The player has to be good enough to develop, which Hickledik is clearly not!!!!!

If this season is anything to go by, nor is Longer, so the club is placing a lot of faith in Lewis and Marshall.

[SydneySainter]

I really thought we had a decent ruckman in Hickey in 2016, but he just faded into near obscurity. I think we did really well in finding a suitor who was willing to give up as much as a second-round pick. Hickey would be pretty stoked to be joining the reigning premiers and bask in the Perth sunshine. It's a win-win for both the club and Hickey. If WCE can turn him into a good, consistent ruckman, then I'll tip my hat to them.

Faded into near obscurity because Richo, in his wisdom, decided Longer was ahead of him.

Wouldn’t do much for your confidence to be replaced by someone who can’t get a kick.

I fear we have ballsed this one up badly. Got rid of our best ruckman for pick 39

Incorrect. Hickey has been a downhill skier, that's why he had trouble getting a game. Remember his game against Essendon in 2017? One of the most heartless displays from a Saints player in recent memory.

I think there is definitely an alarming pattern regarding our rucks.

2016, Hickey was killing it and Longer couldn't get a game. 2017, Hickey was struggling and Longer moved ahead of him. 2018, Longer was struggling and that moved Hickey back to the first choice ruck.

As for Hickey being a downhill skier, fair example you raise, but while we're at it, should we also throw in Longer's 2018 outings against Brisbane and Melbourne?

Are both just mediocre ruck men, or do we struggle to develop our rucks.

[mightysainters]

Hickey had very very good stats to hit outs to advantage, averaged 28 hitouts a game, was the best duck around the ground. I’m not saying he was great but he was a lot better than Longer and better than Pierce (whether we admit that or not).

[Sainternist]

I really thought we had a decent ruckman in Hickey in 2016, but he just faded into near obscurity. I think we did really well in finding a suitor who was willing to give up as much as a second-round pick. Hickey would be pretty stoked to be joining the reigning premiers and bask in the Perth sunshine. It's a win-win for both the club and Hickey. If WCE can turn him into a good, consistent ruckman, then I'll tip my hat to them.

Faded into near obscurity because Richo, in his wisdom, decided Longer was ahead of him.

Wouldn’t do much for your confidence to be replaced by someone who can’t get a kick.

I fear we have ballsed this one up badly. Got rid of our best ruckman for pick 39

Incorrect. Hickey has been a downhill skier, that's why he had trouble getting a game. Remember his game against Essendon in 2017? One of the most heartless displays from a Saints player in recent memory.

I think there is definitely an alarming pattern regarding our rucks.

2016, Hickey was killing it and Longer couldn't get a game. 2017, Hickey was struggling and Longer moved ahead of him. 2018, Longer was struggling and that moved Hickey back to the first choice ruck.

As for Hickey being a downhill skier, fair example you raise, but while we're at it, should we also throw in Longer's 2018 outings against Brisbane and Melbourne?

Are both just mediocre ruck men, or do we struggle to develop our rucks.

Oh, I agree Longer has been dreadfully inconsistent as well. It's just so happened Hickey had more trade value.

[stonecold]

I really thought we had a decent ruckman in Hickey in 2016, but he just faded into near obscurity. I think we did really well in finding a suitor who was willing to give up as much as a second-round pick. Hickey would be pretty stoked to be joining the reigning premiers and bask in the Perth sunshine. It's a win-win for both the club and Hickey. If WCE can turn him into a good, consistent ruckman, then I'll tip my hat to them.

Faded into near obscurity because Richo, in his wisdom, decided Longer was ahead of him.

Wouldn’t do much for your confidence to be replaced by someone who can’t get a kick.

I fear we have ballsed this one up badly. Got rid of our best ruckman for pick 39

Incorrect. Hickey has been a downhill skier, that's why he had trouble getting a game. Remember his game against Essendon in 2017? One of the most heartless displays from a Saints player in recent memory.

I think there is definitely an alarming pattern regarding our rucks.

2016, Hickey was killing it and Longer couldn't get a game. 2017, Hickey was struggling and Longer moved ahead of him. 2018, Longer was struggling and that moved Hickey back to the first choice ruck.

As for Hickey being a downhill skier, fair example you raise, but while we're at it, should we also throw in Longer's 2018 outings against Brisbane and Melbourne?

Are both just mediocre ruck men, or do we struggle to develop our rucks.

Oh, I agree Longer has been dreadfully inconsistent as well. It's just so happened Hickey had more trade value.

And Longer is not on $600k this season coming!!!!!

Longer also played injured all last season!!!!!

[dragit]

if Longer is in the team then I think they've clearly made an error.

You can bet your arse that the cho will have billy and nate brown in the team round one… even weller wouldn't surprise me.

[St DAC]

Not too sad that Hickey is gone, he wan't much good when the going got tough.

Unfortunately neither is Longer, and our other 2 rucks are as raw as it comes. More ruck pain coming next year I feel ...