Mc Cartin

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Zed

ALL our players who run the lines to deliver to the prime scoring areas of the ground AND then deliver to the advantage of their targets

So not only our mid field contingent but also third in our defence structure and particularly our outer defensive players

Absent Roberton we just do not have them

You are on the right track tho

And McCartin will be a player in an improved side

Playing as a key forward is a very difficult task because your leading patterns are chopped off and you are double teamed - so you compete and you continue to compete and that is in sides which do have the potent rebounding asset St Kilda does not have

You work and you work for that one on one contest with advantage - and there are times when that effort and the attention you attract as the recognised prime target creates the one on one advantage for someone else

We saw that with McCartin v Melbourne

So lay off, look at the bigger picture and where our deficiencies really are

And that is not Hickey who is far and away our premier ruckman - all the better supported by Marshall also in regards structure

My only concern is that some I view are the problem are supported at non playing level and that may be indicative of a wrong assessment - particularly as one is the Captain

Anyway we will see what the next period of time brings and what message is delivered accordingly

I am also of the view that there is a load of nonsense on this site, nonsense which needs to be called out because it becomes self fulfilling and defeatist and that is a problem impacting on culture and confidence

The constant barrage on Hickey has promoted a wrong “public” view as but one example

Hence I still periodically contribute - to correct a wrong and a wrong that manifests to far worse than just wrong

[vacuous space]

Richo just said on 360 not happening Paddy is a part of the future plan

He obviously and clearly has to be because when you line him up next to our other key forward options, he's clearly a standout and it would be a horrible loss to the club if he left.

Key Forward #1 - 13.3 disposals, 5.7 contested; 1.2 contested marks; 2.3 tackles; .5 goals
Key Forward #2 - 12.4 Disposals, 4.8 contested; 1.2 contested marks; 1.2 tackes; 1.7 goals
Key Forward #3 - 11.7 Disposals, 7 contested; 1 contested mark; 2.3 tackles; 1.3 goals
Key Forward #4 - 9.7 disposals, 4.2 contested; 1.2 contested marks; .9 tackles; .9 ,goals
Key Forward #5 - 9.5 Disposals, 4.3 contested; .5 contested marks; 2.2 tackles; 1.2 goals

How could we possibly replace that kind of output?

[prwilkinson]

Richo just said on 360 not happening Paddy is a part of the future plan

He obviously and clearly has to be because when you line him up next to our other key forward options, he's clearly a standout and it would be a horrible loss to the club if he left.

Key Forward #1 - 13.3 disposals, 5.7 contested; 1.2 contested marks; 2.3 tackles; .5 goals
Key Forward #2 - 12.4 Disposals, 4.8 contested; 1.2 contested marks; 1.2 tackes; 1.7 goals
Key Forward #3 - 11.7 Disposals, 7 contested; 1 contested mark; 2.3 tackles; 1.3 goals
Key Forward #4 - 9.7 disposals, 4.2 contested; 1.2 contested marks; .9 tackles; .9 ,goals
Key Forward #5 - 9.5 Disposals, 4.3 contested; .5 contested marks; 2.2 tackles; 1.2 goals

How could we possibly replace that kind of output?

Plugger would have 14 disposals and kick 12 goals. Paddy is a clear stand out

[bigcarl]

Key Forward #1 - 13.3 disposals, 5.7 contested; 1.2 contested marks; 2.3 tackles; .5 goals
Key Forward #2 - 12.4 Disposals, 4.8 contested; 1.2 contested marks; 1.2 tackes; 1.7 goals
Key Forward #3 - 11.7 Disposals, 7 contested; 1 contested mark; 2.3 tackles; 1.3 goals
Key Forward #4 - 9.7 disposals, 4.2 contested; 1.2 contested marks; .9 tackles; .9 ,goals
Key Forward #5 - 9.5 Disposals, 4.3 contested; .5 contested marks; 2.2 tackles; 1.2 goals

Which is which?

[guitars4]

Key Forward #1 - 13.3 disposals, 5.7 contested; 1.2 contested marks; 2.3 tackles; .5 goals
Key Forward #2 - 12.4 Disposals, 4.8 contested; 1.2 contested marks; 1.2 tackes; 1.7 goals
Key Forward #3 - 11.7 Disposals, 7 contested; 1 contested mark; 2.3 tackles; 1.3 goals
Key Forward #4 - 9.7 disposals, 4.2 contested; 1.2 contested marks; .9 tackles; .9 ,goals
Key Forward #5 - 9.5 Disposals, 4.3 contested; .5 contested marks; 2.2 tackles; 1.2 goals

Which is which?

Yeah I'm Hommer Simpson here" I don't understand I still don't understand" but I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed so no surprises there but if you explain it to me in laymans terms I maybe able to get a handle on it.

[Peanut Farm]

I've meet McCartin a couple of times out of the football environment.

I would say that he is only just a tad over 6 ft 2. Probably average/median height for an AFL player now.

He spent the majority of time staring at his mobile phone and not making eye contact with anyone.

This is an interesting look back at his draft year:

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2014-11-22/m ... y-mccartin

I am not sure he has been "unlucky" with injuries. Unlucky means you don't normally get something and it happens. Injuries just seem to be the norm over his entire football life.

I've met McCartin heaps of times, in fact the whole team as I live around the corner from Linton Street. He's actually a top bloke, down to earth and has plenty of time for fans and the kids. Never saw him bust a sweat at training though.

Like I mentioned the other day, Roo would never take time out to engage with fans and kids...NEVER

[BenLong#21]

Key Forward #1 - 13.3 disposals, 5.7 contested; 1.2 contested marks; 2.3 tackles; .5 goals
Key Forward #2 - 12.4 Disposals, 4.8 contested; 1.2 contested marks; 1.2 tackes; 1.7 goals
Key Forward #3 - 11.7 Disposals, 7 contested; 1 contested mark; 2.3 tackles; 1.3 goals
Key Forward #4 - 9.7 disposals, 4.2 contested; 1.2 contested marks; .9 tackles; .9 ,goals
Key Forward #5 - 9.5 Disposals, 4.3 contested; .5 contested marks; 2.2 tackles; 1.2 goals

Which is which?

1 Marshall
2 Membrey
3 Bruce
4 Paddy
5 Battle

Paddy is not a 'stand out' at anything. Basically a witch's hat who takes the odd mark.

[vacuous space]

Paddy is not a 'stand out' at anything.

I thought he had Marshall covered for kicking, but then Marshall kicked that bomb in the last game, so I don't know. At this point, I'm pretty sure that Paddy is our worst key forward option (well, Lonie, but realistically), but is almost certainly going to play anyway. It's really no wonder we can't recruit since we can't seem to get our internal evaluations right.

[BenLong#21]

I've meet McCartin a couple of times out of the football environment.

I would say that he is only just a tad over 6 ft 2. Probably average/median height for an AFL player now.

He spent the majority of time staring at his mobile phone and not making eye contact with anyone.

This is an interesting look back at his draft year:

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2014-11-22/m ... y-mccartin

I am not sure he has been "unlucky" with injuries. Unlucky means you don't normally get something and it happens. Injuries just seem to be the norm over his entire football life.

I've met McCartin heaps of times, in fact the whole team as I live around the corner from Linton Street. He's actually a top bloke, down to earth and has plenty of time for fans and the kids. Never saw him bust a sweat at training though.

Like I mentioned the other day, Roo would never take time out to engage with fans and kids...NEVER

Paddy is a 'ripper bloke' from a 'good family'.

[magnifisaint]

Strikes me as too lazy but still a ripper kid from a good family.

[bigred]

I don't think he is lazy.

In fact I think he may actually have to work harder than your average listed AFL player because of his physical limitations.

[bigcarl]

At this point, I'm pretty sure that Paddy is our worst key forward option (well, Lonie, but realistically), but is almoszt certainly going to play anyway. It's really no wonder we can't recruit since we can't seem to get our internal evaluations right.

This is a major, major problem. Let’s hope the new coaching blood help sort it out. Selection must be on merit.

[saintadamski]

The Litmus test for an objective view on any player is to REMOVE THE RED WHITE AND BLACK GOGGLES!!
Now imagine that player played for another club and did exactly the same things.

Now imagine that the Saints wanted to trade that player in.

There are 2 x answers:
1. 'Yes I want him to play for us'
2. 'No way would I want that guy in our team'

I don't think ANYONE on this forum, who went through that mental process would pick number 1.

He should be traded, and quickly, as he will lose all value after another bumbling season!

[dragit]

The Litmus test for an objective view on any player is to REMOVE THE RED WHITE AND BLACK GOGGLES!!

Much easier when you don't actually barrack for the saints?

[derby Street]

The Litmus test for an objective view on any player is to REMOVE THE RED WHITE AND BLACK GOGGLES!!

Much easier when you don't actually barrack for the saints?

+1

[saintadamski]

The Litmus test for an objective view on any player is to REMOVE THE RED WHITE AND BLACK GOGGLES!!

Much easier when you don't actually barrack for the saints?

That's what I'm saying - we all have these Paddy loyalists because of the jumper he pulls on.

We need to take the emotion out of it, take the loyalty to St Kilda out of it, and start thinking rationally.

Is Paddy any good - no he's not....it's really disappointing, but he's not

[dragit]

Key Forward #1 - 13.3 disposals, 5.7 contested; 1.2 contested marks; 2.3 tackles; .5 goals
Key Forward #2 - 12.4 Disposals, 4.8 contested; 1.2 contested marks; 1.2 tackes; 1.7 goals
Key Forward #3 - 11.7 Disposals, 7 contested; 1 contested mark; 2.3 tackles; 1.3 goals
Key Forward #4 - 9.7 disposals, 4.2 contested; 1.2 contested marks; .9 tackles; .9 ,goals
Key Forward #5 - 9.5 Disposals, 4.3 contested; .5 contested marks; 2.2 tackles; 1.2 goals

Which is which?

1 Marshall
2 Membrey
3 Bruce
4 Paddy
5 Battle

Paddy is not a 'stand out' at anything. Basically a witch's hat who takes the odd mark.

The most damming thing about that list is how close Josh Bruce and Paddy are statistically…

One is a 22 year old, 35 game key forward who is supposedly unfit and no good.

The other a 26 year old, 91 game veteran, our marquee forward on big coin and long term deal… super fit, works hard up and down the ground… is the focus of more inside 50's than anyone else in the side by a mile.

How Does Paddy take more marks than Bruce? Averages essentially the same amount of disposals?

Josh Bruce's last 35 games are barely any better than Paddy's first 35 stunted career games, that is extremely alarming if we think Paddy is travelling so poorly.

[saintadamski]

Key Forward #1 - 13.3 disposals, 5.7 contested; 1.2 contested marks; 2.3 tackles; .5 goals
Key Forward #2 - 12.4 Disposals, 4.8 contested; 1.2 contested marks; 1.2 tackes; 1.7 goals
Key Forward #3 - 11.7 Disposals, 7 contested; 1 contested mark; 2.3 tackles; 1.3 goals
Key Forward #4 - 9.7 disposals, 4.2 contested; 1.2 contested marks; .9 tackles; .9 ,goals
Key Forward #5 - 9.5 Disposals, 4.3 contested; .5 contested marks; 2.2 tackles; 1.2 goals

Which is which?

1 Marshall
2 Membrey
3 Bruce
4 Paddy
5 Battle

Paddy is not a 'stand out' at anything. Basically a witch's hat who takes the odd mark.

The most damming thing about that list is how close Josh Bruce and Paddy are statistically…

One is a 22 year old, 35 game key forward who is supposedly unfit and no good.

The other a 26 year old, 91 game veteran, our marquee forward on big coin and long term deal… super fit, works hard up and down the ground… is the focus of more inside 50's than anyone else in the side by a mile.

How Does Paddy take more marks than Bruce? Averages essentially the same amount of disposals?

Josh Bruce's last 35 games are barely any better than Paddy's first 35 stunted career games, that is extremely alarming if we think Paddy is travelling so poorly.

yep agree - I'm no huge fan of either

The question is - which one would you pick based on other factors, like age, and health etc

[takeaway]

The Litmus test for an objective view on any player is to REMOVE THE RED WHITE AND BLACK GOGGLES!!
Now imagine that player played for another club and did exactly the same things.

Now imagine that the Saints wanted to trade that player in.

There are 2 x answers:
1. 'Yes I want him to play for us'
2. 'No way would I want that guy in our team'

I don't think ANYONE on this forum, who went through that mental process would pick number 1.

He should be traded, and quickly, as he will lose all value after another bumbling season!

Count me as No.1.

[dragit]

yep agree - I'm no huge fan of either

The question is - which one would you pick based on other factors, like age, and health etc

Don't know about pick, but I know which one I would trade.

Paddy still has a big upside "potential" IMO, clearly this is unrealised and may never eventuate, but he has never played more than 7 games straight.

I still think he can play, and his current trade value isn't worth moving him on. I'd rather keep him and take the risk that he never actually becomes a regular AFL player.

[saintadamski]

The Litmus test for an objective view on any player is to REMOVE THE RED WHITE AND BLACK GOGGLES!!
Now imagine that player played for another club and did exactly the same things.

Now imagine that the Saints wanted to trade that player in.

There are 2 x answers:
1. 'Yes I want him to play for us'
2. 'No way would I want that guy in our team'

I don't think ANYONE on this forum, who went through that mental process would pick number 1.

He should be traded, and quickly, as he will lose all value after another bumbling season!

Count me as No.1.

Wow ok

So if he played for Carlton or Essendon etc, had exactly the same stats, knocked himself out multiple times, and could hardly take a mark...you would want him at the Saints?

Can I ask for some reasoning behind your choice?

[prwilkinson]

The Litmus test for an objective view on any player is to REMOVE THE RED WHITE AND BLACK GOGGLES!!
Now imagine that player played for another club and did exactly the same things.

Now imagine that the Saints wanted to trade that player in.

There are 2 x answers:
1. 'Yes I want him to play for us'
2. 'No way would I want that guy in our team'

I don't think ANYONE on this forum, who went through that mental process would pick number 1.

He should be traded, and quickly, as he will lose all value after another bumbling season!

Count me as No.1.

Wow ok

So if he played for Carlton or Essendon etc, had exactly the same stats, knocked himself out multiple times, and could hardly take a mark...you would want him at the Saints?

Can I ask for some reasoning behind your choice?

Not to mention, at this stage, Mason Cox seems to have better second and third efforts than Paddy. It’s a tough one... I want to see Paddy do so well but has he got it at AFL level? Am I just being delusional in hoping that he’ll become a star?

If you do stand right back and look at it objectively I can’t see it happening. And, if we end up with Max King.... How the hell is Paddy even going to fit in?

Going on probabilities, If we were playing Poker, you’d either fold or cash out at this stage wouldn’t you? Before you bust out.

[takeaway]

The Litmus test for an objective view on any player is to REMOVE THE RED WHITE AND BLACK GOGGLES!!
Now imagine that player played for another club and did exactly the same things.

Now imagine that the Saints wanted to trade that player in.

There are 2 x answers:
1. 'Yes I want him to play for us'
2. 'No way would I want that guy in our team'

I don't think ANYONE on this forum, who went through that mental process would pick number 1.

He should be traded, and quickly, as he will lose all value after another bumbling season!

Count me as No.1.

Wow ok

So if he played for Carlton or Essendon etc, had exactly the same stats, knocked himself out multiple times, and could hardly take a mark...you would want him at the Saints?

Can I ask for some reasoning behind your choice?

My post earlier in this thread covers my views. (about page 4) I think if the club put him up for trade, there would be quite a deal of interest from clubs.
Fortunately the club have stated he will not be traded.

[rodgerfox]

The Litmus test for an objective view on any player is to REMOVE THE RED WHITE AND BLACK GOGGLES!!
Now imagine that player played for another club and did exactly the same things.

Now imagine that the Saints wanted to trade that player in.

There are 2 x answers:
1. 'Yes I want him to play for us'
2. 'No way would I want that guy in our team'

I don't think ANYONE on this forum, who went through that mental process would pick number 1.

He should be traded, and quickly, as he will lose all value after another bumbling season!

Count me as No.1.

Wow ok

So if he played for Carlton or Essendon etc, had exactly the same stats, knocked himself out multiple times, and could hardly take a mark...you would want him at the Saints?

Can I ask for some reasoning behind your choice?

Would you have wanted Aaron Francis 6 months ago?

[Scollop]

Key Forward #1 - 13.3 disposals, 5.7 contested; 1.2 contested marks; 2.3 tackles; .5 goals
Key Forward #2 - 12.4 Disposals, 4.8 contested; 1.2 contested marks; 1.2 tackes; 1.7 goals
Key Forward #3 - 11.7 Disposals, 7 contested; 1 contested mark; 2.3 tackles; 1.3 goals
Key Forward #4 - 9.7 disposals, 4.2 contested; 1.2 contested marks; .9 tackles; .9 ,goals
Key Forward #5 - 9.5 Disposals, 4.3 contested; .5 contested marks; 2.2 tackles; 1.2 goals

Which is which?

1 Marshall
2 Membrey
3 Bruce
4 Paddy
5 Battle

Paddy is not a 'stand out' at anything. Basically a witch's hat who takes the odd mark.

The most damming thing about that list is how close Josh Bruce and Paddy are statistically…

One is a 22 year old, 35 game key forward who is supposedly unfit and no good.

The other a 26 year old, 91 game veteran, our marquee forward on big coin and long term deal… super fit, works hard up and down the ground… is the focus of more inside 50's than anyone else in the side by a mile.

How Does Paddy take more marks than Bruce? Averages essentially the same amount of disposals?

Josh Bruce's last 35 games are barely any better than Paddy's first 35 stunted career games, that is extremely alarming if we think Paddy is travelling so poorly.

yep agree - I'm no huge fan of either

The question is - which one would you pick based on other factors, like age, and health etc

Both of you are wrong. Totally wrong on Josh Bruce.

Bruce was played initially as a backman for a whole year if I recall so I'd be having a look at the body of work for Juice ONLY over the 3 seasons that he was played in the forward line - 2015/2016/2017.

He kicked 50 goals in 2015 and in the following two seasons BECAUSE he was our 2nd ruck most of the time he kicked a lot less. He also played the decoy in 2016 and 2017 so that Paddy could get experience...plus...he played the decoy in Rooy's last year so Roo could get the adulation he so rightly deserved and because both Rooy and Paddy could'nt play in any other position at that time

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_ ... 017&fid2=S