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Not quite sure about your post, you are posing a lot of questions and questions where they shouldnt be. That needs to be sorted out first so the reader can understand what you are babbling on about. If you are trying to say that in the last 5 years picks have been good , well I would disagree on that. There are 3-4 unproven as yet. Gresham, Billings are doing well. Lonie and Dunstan are in and out of the team and Acres....well who knows. Steele and carlisle were good pick ups. So that is out of 15 picks, hardly a success in my opinion especially as not one of them has been an absolute standout. 2014....that was a beauty.
Agree.
Steele and Carlisle werent drafted, they were enticed by other clubs with lucrative contracts.
Billings is doing ok but I wouldn't say 'well' for a pick 3 5 years in the system. Bont, Josh Kelly and Patrick Cripps say hi.
Roger Fox, you appear to be the only one contributing to this site who has any credibility
Of the higher order Draft Picks since Billings (3), Dunstan (18) and Acres (19), we have lost Goddard and Freeman, both of whom had injury concerns unfortunately (and I would have given both a further year given they had some continuity in their football in 2018 and the deficiencies in our List)
To me the problem is the experience we have around those higher Draft Picks in the absence of Fisher (not to be underestimated) then Dempster, Montagna and Riewoldt
So we are left with Steven and Carlisle as our class experience - and Armitage but again injury has impacted
Again to me, we romance on Webster, Geary, Savage, Newnes et al all of whom are not of the class required for a raft of reasons - and Ross whose lack of damaging ball use so giving no advantage to our forwards and not impacting on the score board (3 goals in 1 game his impact in 2018?) when they are the problem exaggerated by the demographic of our List post the exit of the 4 I have mentioned
McCartin’s statistics quoted are impacted by early exits from games with injury - I recall 2 goals early against Richmond then off plus his last game this season, so misleading
As they say, statistics, statistics and damn lies
We will add another top 5 Pick shortly
Clark and Coffield will have had a year in the system - and these kids are coming from Under 18 footy
Acres fit will make a difference because this kid has the tools including the intangible inventiveness
The summary is that I am not as negative as this site has become, feasting on our own regardless
I acknowledge that we are in rebuild phase with the sins of the past not assisting as Roger Fox identifies
IF we can introduce a couple with class and experience improvement will gather pace
Because currently that is our Achilles heel - class AND experience
We lack class AND experience
So 200 game players who are elite AFL footballers
We have some who would aspire to that status including because of their Draft positions but they are only 50/60 games into their careers and without support from 200 game elite AFL players aka Fisher, Dempster, Montagna and Riewoldt
BenLong#21 wrote: ↑Sun 16 Sep 2018 7:50pmBillings is doing ok but I wouldn't say 'well' for a pick 3 5 years in the system. Bont, Josh Kelly and Patrick Cripps say hi.
I'd say that Billings is the poster child for our questionable development in the same way McCartin's the poster child for our questionable drafting. All those guys you listed have had much greater opportunity to develop into midfielders, which is really how you become a star in this league. Cripps had 73 centre clearances, Bont had 37, Kelly had 8, Billings had 1. Billings has had to develop playing almost exculsively outside roles, mostly as a small forward on a bad team. I'm not sure Bont, Cripps or Kelly would have thrived under such circumstances.
The only time Billings got to play as a mid, he racked up 54 disposals, 8 clearances and 3 goals against a second-rate VFL side. Pretty soon he was back in the forward line. Just like Coffield getting 30 touches at 80% efficiency in the midfield and getting recalled so Richo could play him off half back. It'd make much more sense if we had a good midfield, rather than one that regularly gets beaten in the clearances and contested ball. You'd also think a team that had 2 wins going into the bye would have been in a position to experiment a bit too. But this is a coach who plays a half-fit Nathan Brown when he has no shot at finals.
Not quite sure about your post, you are posing a lot of questions and questions where they shouldnt be. That needs to be sorted out first so the reader can understand what you are babbling on about. If you are trying to say that in the last 5 years picks have been good , well I would disagree on that. There are 3-4 unproven as yet. Gresham, Billings are doing well. Lonie and Dunstan are in and out of the team and Acres....well who knows. Steele and carlisle were good pick ups. So that is out of 15 picks, hardly a success in my opinion especially as not one of them has been an absolute standout. 2014....that was a beauty.
Agree.
Steele and Carlisle werent drafted, they were enticed by other clubs with lucrative contracts.
Billings is doing ok but I wouldn't say 'well' for a pick 3 5 years in the system. Bont, Josh Kelly and Patrick Cripps say hi.
Thank you. I couldn't understand the rationale behind Rodgerfox's post either. The last 6 years of picks, inclusive of 2012, have not been good. A bit unfair to bring up Freeman.....he was a gun junior and it's not Collingwood's fault that his body failed him. Every club has stories like that. Our club thought they could do better than Collingwood and took Freeman on for 3 years and we know what that decision returned. Not sure why Rodgerfox didn't talk about Tom Lee in his 2012 draft list after my post. Before you mention Nathan Wright (Pick 24), Spencer White (Pick 25) & Brodie Murdoch (Pick 40), you needed to list Tom Lee, who we traded away our first-round draft compensation pick for. That whole draft was a complete disaster with all 4 gone by the way.
Billings looks like a midfielder who doesn't have a tank yet. This off season should change that. He has a weakness in kicking at goal so if he goes more as a mid than small forward that problem is lessened. He needs a huge off season in conditioning and then he an play on the outside to help Stuv. I am happy to leave Sinclair up forward as that is where he plays his best footy and also build up Gresham's tank so he can move into the midfield as well as play forward.
rodgerfox wrote: ↑Sun 16 Sep 2018 11:37am
Petracca and De Goey have 6.6 Score Involvements per week, McCartin has 4.1.
Given Melbourne and Collingwood are 1st and 3rd respectively for Inside 50s, I think McCartin's actual output is a bit understated. Albeit it's definitely not great, but it's not as terrible as it seems on face value.
With 4.08 score involvements per game this year McCartin ranks 17th out of 32 players who played at least 5 games for St Kilda this year. Not sure it's a great sign that our full forward is in the bottom half of our list for score involvements.
chico2001 wrote: ↑Sun 16 Sep 2018 7:17pm
[ If you are trying to say that in the last 5 years picks have been good , well I would disagree on that. There are 3-4 unproven as yet. Gresham, Billings are doing well. Lonie and Dunstan are in and out of the team and Acres....well who knows. Steele and carlisle were good pick ups. So that is out of 15 picks, hardly a success in my opinion especially as not one of them has been an absolute standout. 2014....that was a beauty.
I'm trying to say, that I disagree that our recruitment has been terrible in the past 5 years.
rodgerfox wrote: ↑Sun 16 Sep 2018 11:37am
Petracca and De Goey have 6.6 Score Involvements per week, McCartin has 4.1.
Given Melbourne and Collingwood are 1st and 3rd respectively for Inside 50s, I think McCartin's actual output is a bit understated. Albeit it's definitely not great, but it's not as terrible as it seems on face value.
With 4.08 score involvements per game this year McCartin ranks 17th out of 32 players who played at least 5 games for St Kilda this year. Not sure it's a great sign that our full forward is in the bottom half of our list for score involvements.
It's a terrible sign!
Not surprising really though, given we're 13th for Inside 50s.
Membrey is clearly our number 1 target in there, and is a very good player - and he only averages 5.7.
So although McCartin's output is far from great, it's not quite as diabolical as some think it is.
Statistically, his output is better than Hipwood's - except Hipwood averages 0.8 more Goals per game than him.
But Hipwood has 85% Time on Ground to McCartin's 76%.
DJ Higgins wrote: ↑Sun 16 Sep 2018 10:01pm
Billings looks like a midfielder who doesn't have a tank yet. This off season should change that. He has a weakness in kicking at goal so if he goes more as a mid than small forward that problem is lessened. He needs a huge off season in conditioning and then he an play on the outside to help Stuv. I am happy to leave Sinclair up forward as that is where he plays his best footy and also build up Gresham's tank so he can move into the midfield as well as play forward.
The stats suggest Billings runs further than any other Saints player most weeks. He has the tank just not the body for the bash and crash in the midfield. One of the our weaknesses was our outside ball use, so we cant blame AR for using him in that role. I would however like to see him rolled through the middle more often.
