Mc Cartin

[saintadamski]

Can't compare the 2. One is AA and one of the best readers of the game in the afl and takes pack mark's and a beautiful kick. Mccartin can't read the play, can't mark and can't kick. He gets pushed off the ball too easily. No comparison. He won't make it. Too unfit and too slow and been in the system 4 years.

That's the funny thing about playing for St Kilda... many players in our top 22 have long careers in the AFL, where if they played for another side, would have already been delisted and ended their career long ago.

I mean, the fact that Newnes still has a contract, and Geary is a captain could ONLY happen at the Saints.

[Sainter_Dad]

I think Brayshaw is proving to be the best choice.

Even if we had taken Petracca - we would now be bemoaning that we did not take Brayshaw/De Gooey - The top two draft picks that year were busts.

[saintkid]

I think Brayshaw is proving to be the best choice.

Even if we had taken Petracca - we would now be bemoaning that we did not take Brayshaw/De Gooey - The top two draft picks that year were busts.

Petracca is not a bust.

[Sainter_Dad]

I think Brayshaw is proving to be the best choice.

Even if we had taken Petracca - we would now be bemoaning that we did not take Brayshaw/De Gooey - The top two draft picks that year were busts.

Petracca is not a bust.

Point taken - neither of the top 2 have lived up to the hype

[saintkid]

I think Brayshaw is proving to be the best choice.

Even if we had taken Petracca - we would now be bemoaning that we did not take Brayshaw/De Gooey - The top two draft picks that year were busts.

Petracca is not a bust.

Point taken - neither of the top 2 have lived up to the hype

Petracca offers a lot more from a team perspective due to his versatility and gives you the indication that he will get better when you watch him play. Unfortunately, Paddy has not much to his game if he fails to mark. Is too slow, turns like a Mack truck and has no tank.

[rodgerfox]

I think Brayshaw is proving to be the best choice.

Even if we had taken Petracca - we would now be bemoaning that we did not take Brayshaw/De Gooey - The top two draft picks that year were busts.

Petracca is not a bust.

Point taken - neither of the top 2 have lived up to the hype

Petracca offers a lot more from a team perspective due to his versatility and gives you the indication that he will get better when you watch him play. Unfortunately, Paddy has not much to his game if he fails to mark. Is too slow, turns like a Mack truck and has no tank.

How is he versatile?

He's not good enough to play in Melbourne's midfield, so he's a permanent half forward/high half forward.

[Ghost Like]

Petracca does from time to time get a run in the midfield or off a wing. Yes, predominantly on the half forward line. With a midfield of Jones, Oliver, Brayshaw, Viney plus others, Petracca is a luxury. Petracca will be one of those with the ability to play one out from the goal square. Not required to do that at present with McDonald, Weideman and Hogan.
He is versatile or certainly will be given another two seasons.
Unfortunately McCartin has one position to make his own, the pressure to do that is immense on top of being #1, his documented illness, multiple concussions and being in an average team where everything is magnified when the cracks appear.
It was not his fault he was #1, that falls on Elshaug, the U/18 system allowing bigger kids more freedom and our own panic.
His brother appears a better prospect, highlighted by a more professional club in Sydney.
I wish Paddy could play in another position then he would be worth another year or two but wishes are easy, it is the reality that's hard to take.

[The_President]

Interesting little bit from this Herald Sun article regarding Geelong trading their first picks

"Geelong has not yet made a play for St Kilda’s Paddy McCartin, despite widely-held belief the Saints’ spearhead is open to a move in the exchange period."

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/ ... e06077fab7

Full Article:

THE AFL’s restrictions on trading future-first round picks wont bite down on Geelong until next year if the club continues to trade out its top picks.

The Cats are the only club in the league which have traded out their first-round pick in each of the past three years.

If they again move on this year’s first-round choice, without bringing in an early replacement selection, they will be prevented from trading out their future first-round pick (for the 2020 draft) in next year’s exchange period.

Any club which does not use at least two first-round picks at the draft within a rolling four-year period will be handcuffed from passing on their future first-round pick the following season.

Importantly, every club can trade its first-round pick for the current season every year, as the rules only refer to trading out future first-round picks, according to an AFL document.

However, there is a large loophole.

All clubs can still apply for special league exemption to beat the future first-round pick clamp down even if they are fall into the restriction zone.

In an AFL document ‘Determination for the trading of future draft selections’ it says, “Exceptions will only apply based on the age of players traded for first-round selections and what other draft selections have been taken by the club in the relevant time frame.”

The Cats have clarified with the AFL they are allowed to trade their first-round pick and their future first-round pick for this year’s exchange period.

However, it is more likely the Cats will hold on to both choices and pick up a youngster in the first round of this year’s draft for the first time since they welcomed Nakia Cockatoo in 2014.

Since then, Geelong has traded it first-round selection to nab stars Lachie Henderson, Patrick Dangerfield and Zach Tuohy.

The Cats are mindful of refreshing the list with some young talent, despite zeroing in on Western Bulldogs free agent Luke Dahlhaus and Sydney speedster Gary Rohan as well.

As the Herald Sun revealed in July, the Cats have offered Dahlhaus a four-year deal to arrive at the cattery and help them dial up the forward line pressure for next season.

Rohan would also add some extra speed and line breaking flair.

The Cats may also lose hard nut George Horlin-Smith to Gold Coast, goal kicker Daniel Menzel to St Kilda and livewire Lincoln McCarthy to Brisbane.

Geelong has not yet made a play for St Kilda’s Paddy McCartin, despite widely-held belief the Saints’ spearhead is open to a move in the exchange period.

The AFL designed these trading restrictions in 2015 to prevent irresponsible or haphazard list management.

They will be implemented for the first time in next year’s exchange period.

“The relevant time frame commences from the National Draft in 2015, so the first four year block will not come into effect until the Exchange Period of 2019,” the AFL rule states.

Clubs have to seek board approval before swapping out its future-first round pick in any year.

[BenLong#21]

I dont really understand how McCartin was pick 1 in the first place.

He only averaged 4 marks a game in the U 18 Champs in 2014. Hardly dominant. Not even mildly impressive really.
If you look at this year's crop - players like King, Lukosius and Rankine have double or triple the output of Paddy.

In 2014 PAddy only managed 3 games (of a possible 6 - alarm bells?). Averaged 2 goals and 8 disposals.
Jack Lonie played all 6 and averaged 2 goals and 14 disposals.
Brenton Payne averaged 2 goals a game and 9 disposals and managed 5 games.
Petracca 25 disposals, 4 tackles and 1 goal. He played 5 games.

I am still kind of scratching my head.
Even if you look at Paddy's highlights from 2014 it is just chest marks.

It all seems so strange. And this isnt just hindsight talking. I remember lots of conversation along these lines back in 2014.

Am i missing something?

[magnifisaint]

Trade McFarten for a 2nd rounder. He just won't make it.

[Impatient Sainter]

McCartin = TRADE +++

[prwilkinson]

I’d take Menzel and a decent pick for Paddy.

[saint6709]

I dont really understand how McCartin was pick 1 in the first place.

He only averaged 4 marks a game in the U 18 Champs in 2014. Hardly dominant. Not even mildly impressive really.
If you look at this year's crop - players like King, Lukosius and Rankine have double or triple the output of Paddy.

In 2014 PAddy only managed 3 games (of a possible 6 - alarm bells?). Averaged 2 goals and 8 disposals.
Jack Lonie played all 6 and averaged 2 goals and 14 disposals.
Brenton Payne averaged 2 goals a game and 9 disposals and managed 5 games.
Petracca 25 disposals, 4 tackles and 1 goal. He played 5 games.

I am still kind of scratching my head.
Even if you look at Paddy's highlights from 2014 it is just chest marks.

It all seems so strange. And this isnt just hindsight talking. I remember lots of conversation along these lines back in 2014.

Am i missing something?

Everyone inthe country knew Paddy was a very questionable pick - I did not those stats you have just posted though

[takeaway]

Herald Sun - nuff said. Just padding, we've known the Paddy link to Geelong area for years.

Paddy would be one of the last I'd trade from the club at the moment

Reasons:

1. We won't get much value in draft picks for him.

2. The new anti congestion rules for 2019 can only assist him.

3. We have: (tall forwards)

Bruce - coming off severe back and leg injury - will he get back to his 2017 form, let alone his best form a couple of years earlier?
Battle - only a few games, shows aggression and a bit of talent, but needs a lot more experience before he can consistently hold a tall forward spot.
Marshall- needs more games but imo only a part time tall forward/ruck. Don't think he can play permanent forward.
Membrey is our best tallish forward at present, good mark, but we also need a taller option.

Unless we trade in another tall forward I would hate to go into 2019 with only the above 4.

I know most have written Paddy off, but I haven't. The issue is staying on the park, and imo if he can do that next year, he will be our best tall forward.
He knows when and where to lead, if we can get our forward line functioning, with some decent delivery, he will show a lot more. Keeper.

[skeptic]

Herald Sun - nuff said. Just padding, we've known the Paddy link to Geelong area for years.

Paddy would be one of the last I'd trade from the club at the moment

Reasons:

1. We won't get much value in draft picks for him.

2. The new anti congestion rules for 2019 can only assist him.

3. We have: (tall forwards)

Bruce - coming off severe back and leg injury - will he get back to his 2017 form, let alone his best form a couple of years earlier?
Battle - only a few games, shows aggression and a bit of talent, but needs a lot more experience before he can consistently hold a tall forward spot.
Marshall- needs more games but imo only a part time tall forward/ruck. Don't think he can play permanent forward.
Membrey is our best tallish forward at present, good mark, but we also need a taller option.

Unless we trade in another tall forward I would hate to go into 2019 with only the above 4.

I know most have written Paddy off, but I haven't. The issue is staying on the park, and imo if he can do that next year, he will be our best tall forward.
He knows when and where to lead, if we can get our forward line functioning, with some decent delivery, he will show a lot more. Keeper.

Hard to disagree with any of that...
Especially the highlighted part. The big concern is that we’re not really seeing any evidence that he could meet the workload expectations for an entire season. I’m not sure if it’s the diabetes or not but he just seems to be a very injury prone player especially when he starts to get a bit worn down.

He might be the type of guy that needs to be rested every few weeks or have limited game time.

I’ve said for a while now I like this kid and think he has all the tools but the durability concern is huge... that and this weird goal yips that came this season out of nowhere.

[rodgerfox]

I don't know if he's really injury prone though is he?

He broke a collar bone, had concussions and whatever he did late in the season.

Aside from collision injuries, he hasn't had any other issues has he?

[BenLong#21]

The game has already gone past McCartin.
The new young kids coming up are just more athletic than him in every way.
I'll be very surprised if he makes it.

[DJ Higgins]

There is a real possibility that we will pick Max King who will slot into the forward lien nicely but he will take some time to come good. Problem is that that doesn't solve or mid field problem which is more pressing than the forward line. Unless we get a miracle and land a gun mid next year is a bottom four finish as well

[To the top]

Agree that we require mid field support for Number 3

But, to me, another critical area is our defence and particularly our clinical rebound from defence

The return of Roberton will assist including because he can turn onto either foot to create space to then run and carry

We need to build around Carlisle - and Austin has shown a bit

We need players who can transition the ball to the advantage of our forwards and one on one contests with the likes of Gresham and Long loitering with intent at ground level

[saintadamski]

Petracca does from time to time get a run in the midfield or off a wing. Yes, predominantly on the half forward line. With a midfield of Jones, Oliver, Brayshaw, Viney plus others, Petracca is a luxury. Petracca will be one of those with the ability to play one out from the goal square. Not required to do that at present with McDonald, Weideman and Hogan.
He is versatile or certainly will be given another two seasons.
Unfortunately McCartin has one position to make his own, the pressure to do that is immense on top of being #1, his documented illness, multiple concussions and being in an average team where everything is magnified when the cracks appear.
It was not his fault he was #1, that falls on Elshaug, the U/18 system allowing bigger kids more freedom and our own panic.
His brother appears a better prospect, highlighted by a more professional club in Sydney.
I wish Paddy could play in another position then he would be worth another year or two but wishes are easy, it is the reality that's hard to take.

Great point...

Elshaug, do you mind answering this one for all us paying members....

Tony the flog says : “When we made the home visit you could just see he came from good stock through the hospitality and how genuine his family were and are as people and the kind of upbringing he had had,”
“It made you think to yourself that this is a good family, these are good people. Sometimes you can just tell from the warmth and the vibe when you walk into a home."

Now Tony...you know this has nothing to do with being a good footballer don't you....YOU F*CKING INEPT INCOMPETENT FLOG THAT YOU ARE!!! PLEASE F*CK OFF ALREADY!!!

[Peanut Farm]

McCartin is the biggest dud I've seen. Really nice bloke though, every time I go down to the club, he has plenty of time for the kids. Totally opposite to Roo who couldnt give a s*** about anyone but himself but a true champion.
Try getting Roo to sign your stuff at training was trying to suck blood out of a stone. Mellowed towards the end of his career but a total plonker back then.

[Impatient Sainter]

McCartin is the biggest dud I've seen. Really nice bloke though, every time I go down to the club, he has plenty of time for the kids. Totally opposite to Roo who couldnt give a s*** about anyone but himself but a true champion.
Try getting Roo to sign your stuff at training was trying to suck blood out of a stone. Mellowed towards the end of his career but a total plonker back then.

Roo had a thing about people making financial gain from signed merchandise and I dont blame him.

[spert]

I dont really understand how McCartin was pick 1 in the first place.

He only averaged 4 marks a game in the U 18 Champs in 2014. Hardly dominant. Not even mildly impressive really.
If you look at this year's crop - players like King, Lukosius and Rankine have double or triple the output of Paddy.

In 2014 PAddy only managed 3 games (of a possible 6 - alarm bells?). Averaged 2 goals and 8 disposals.
Jack Lonie played all 6 and averaged 2 goals and 14 disposals.
Brenton Payne averaged 2 goals a game and 9 disposals and managed 5 games.
Petracca 25 disposals, 4 tackles and 1 goal. He played 5 games.

I am still kind of scratching my head.
Even if you look at Paddy's highlights from 2014 it is just chest marks.

It all seems so strange. And this isnt just hindsight talking. I remember lots of conversation along these lines back in 2014.

Am i missing something?

It is a mystery.

[chico2001]

Had a couple of posters on here a while back who described him as a "sensational youngster" beautiful mark and superb kick. Maybe looking at someone else I think. I wonder who is giving him one on one coaching. Surely you would have the best trying to teach a no 1 recruit and I dont mean Hammil or Dixon.

[dragit]

There is a real possibility that we will pick Max King who will slot into the forward lien nicely but he will take some time to come good. Problem is that that doesn't solve or mid field problem which is more pressing than the forward line. Unless we get a miracle and land a gun mid next year is a bottom four finish as well

Surely we don't take another tall with a top 4 pick?

The only way I see that happening is if we trade both paddy & Bruce to get back into the draft for mids.