Tony & No.11 / jax

[Jacks Back]

Last time we were at the top end of picks it was a very week draft (ie Paddy/Petracca) whereas this year is an exceptionally strong pool in the Top 4.

Not really a "week draft" as you say, just another s*** pick:
1 Paddy McCartin St Kilda
2 Christian Petracca Melbourne
3 Angus Brayshaw Melbourne
4 Jarrod Pickett Greater Western Sydney
5 Jordan De Goey Collingwood
6 Caleb Marchbank Greater Western Sydney
7 Paul Ahern Greater Western Sydney
8 Peter Wright Gold Coast
9 Darcy Moore Collingwood
10 Nakia Cockatoo Geelong
11 Liam Duggan West Coast
12 Corey Ellis Richmond
13 Lachie Weller Fremantle
14 Jake Lever Adelaide
15 Jarrod Garlett Gold Coast
16 Sam Durdin North Melbourne
17 Kyle Langford Essendon
18 Isaac Heeney Sydney
19 Blaine Boekhorst Carlton
20 Jayden Laverde

[BenLong#21]

Lets have a fresh look at the 2014 draft class now:


1 Paddy McCartin St Kilda - ?
2 Christian Petracca Melbourne - Good
3 Angus Brayshaw Melbourne - Very Good
4 Jarrod Pickett Greater Western Sydney - Ok (Blues)
5 Jordan De Goey Collingwood - GUN
6 Caleb Marchbank Greater Western Sydney - Good (Blues)
7 Paul Ahern Greater Western Sydney - Good (Roos)
8 Peter Wright Gold Coast - ?
9 Darcy Moore Collingwood - ?
10 Nakia Cockatoo Geelong - ?
11 Liam Duggan West Coast - Good
12 Corey Ellis Richmond - ?
13 Lachie Weller Fremantle - ? (Suns)
14 Jake Lever Adelaide - Very Good (demons)
15 Jarrod Garlett Gold Coast - Ok (blues)
16 Sam Durdin North Melbourne - ?
17 Kyle Langford Essendon - Very Good.
18 Isaac Heeney Sydney - Very Good
19 Blaine Boekhorst Carlton - Delisted.
20 Jayden Laverde - ?

[saintsRrising]

Last time we were at the top end of picks it was a very week draft (ie Paddy/Petracca) whereas this year is an exceptionally strong pool in the Top 4.

Not really a "week draft" as you say, just another s*** pick:
1 Paddy McCartin St Kilda
2 Christian Petracca Melbourne
3 Angus Brayshaw Melbourne
4 Jarrod Pickett Greater Western Sydney
5 Jordan De Goey Collingwood
6 Caleb Marchbank Greater Western Sydney
7 Paul Ahern Greater Western Sydney
8 Peter Wright Gold Coast
9 Darcy Moore Collingwood
10 Nakia Cockatoo Geelong
11 Liam Duggan West Coast
12 Corey Ellis Richmond
13 Lachie Weller Fremantle
14 Jake Lever Adelaide
15 Jarrod Garlett Gold Coast
16 Sam Durdin North Melbourne
17 Kyle Langford Essendon
18 Isaac Heeney Sydney
19 Blaine Boekhorst Carlton
20 Jayden Laverde

I disagree on the quality of the players. Last year's draft is already looking stronger and deeper.

I agree on the quality of our picking.


Last year
1 Cameron Rayner
2 Andrew Brayshaw
3 Paddy Dow
4 Luke Davies-Uniacke
5 Adam Cerra
6 Jaidyn Stephenson
7 Hunter Clark
8 Nicholas Coffield
9 Aaron Naughton
10 Lochie O'Brien
11 Aiden Bonar
12 Darcy Fogarty
13 Jarrod Brander
14 Matthew Ling
15 Zac Bailey
16 Ed Richards
17 Jack Higgins
18 Brandon Starcevich
19 Wil Powell
20 Callum Coleman-Jones

[Myron Gaines]

Picks 2, 3 & 5 look like being elite...1 looks like being a bust.

[BenLong#21]

Picks 2, 3 & 5 look like being elite...1 looks like being a bust.

Yep.
14, 17 and 18 are looking ok too.

[Peanut Farm]

Hunter Clark wont make it - too slow. Same with Acres.

[SaintPav]

[maverick]

Hunter Clark wont make it - too slow. Same with Acres.

Not from where I sit

[Ghost Like]

Hunter Clark wont make it - too slow. Same with Acres.

Neither will make the 100 metre final in Tokyo, this is true but both will carve out very good AFL careers & hopefully long ones with St Kilda. Add Coffield & Paton in that and I think we will look back in 5 years time and say 2017 was a great draft.

[BenLong#21]

Hunter will make it.

[The Recruit]

Hunter Clark wont make it - too slow. Same with Acres.

Seriously

[BenLong#21]

De Goey tonight:

3 goals.
8 marks.
5 marks inside 50.
2 goal assists.
11 score involvements.

Weather Conditions: Poor.

[Ghost Like]

De Goey, Brayshaw and Heeney are certainly the picks from the draft. We had no real say in Heeney & from memory I don't remember De Goey being discussed as a #1. It was all McCartin, Petracca & Brayshaw.

Still shaking my head over our "fear" of Roo retiring, missing out on Boyd and our history of having key forwards as to why we picked up Paddy. Such a knee jerk reaction / selection that only our recruiters could do, too smart by half. Melbourne were the big winners, especially landing pick #3 for Frawley. Well played Dees!!!

[rodgerfox]

De Goey, Brayshaw and Heeney are certainly the picks from the draft. We had no real say in Heeney & from memory I don't remember De Goey being discussed as a #1. It was all McCartin, Petracca & Brayshaw.

Still shaking my head over our "fear" of Roo retiring, missing out on Boyd and our history of having key forwards as to why we picked up Paddy. Such a knee jerk reaction / selection that only our recruiters could do, too smart by half. Melbourne were the big winners, especially landing pick #3 for Frawley. Well played Dees!!!

Knee jerk?

I'd actually say that the thought process you mentioned is quite the opposite of knee jerk.

It actually makes perfect sense and seems completely reasonable to pick a key forward under the circumstances .

[Joffa Burns]

De Goey, Brayshaw and Heeney are certainly the picks from the draft. We had no real say in Heeney & from memory I don't remember De Goey being discussed as a #1. It was all McCartin, Petracca & Brayshaw.

Still shaking my head over our "fear" of Roo retiring, missing out on Boyd and our history of having key forwards as to why we picked up Paddy. Such a knee jerk reaction / selection that only our recruiters could do, too smart by half. Melbourne were the big winners, especially landing pick #3 for Frawley. Well played Dees!!!

Knee jerk?

I'd actually say that the thought process you mentioned is quite the opposite of knee jerk.

It actually makes perfect sense and seems completely reasonable to pick a key forward under the circumstances .

No doubt they did their due diligence but were spooked by the Bulldogs grandfather offer to Boyd and the pending retirement of Roo.

The above obviously contributed to the Paddy decision.

I think it’s time to move on and accept what’s done is done. Don’t hear Dees fans lamenting the Watts pick now.

[rodgerfox]

De Goey, Brayshaw and Heeney are certainly the picks from the draft. We had no real say in Heeney & from memory I don't remember De Goey being discussed as a #1. It was all McCartin, Petracca & Brayshaw.

Still shaking my head over our "fear" of Roo retiring, missing out on Boyd and our history of having key forwards as to why we picked up Paddy. Such a knee jerk reaction / selection that only our recruiters could do, too smart by half. Melbourne were the big winners, especially landing pick #3 for Frawley. Well played Dees!!!

Knee jerk?

I'd actually say that the thought process you mentioned is quite the opposite of knee jerk.

It actually makes perfect sense and seems completely reasonable to pick a key forward under the circumstances .

No doubt they did their due diligence but were spooked by the Bulldogs grandfather offer to Boyd and the pending retirement of Roo.

The above obviously contributed to the Paddy decision.

I think it’s time to move on and accept what’s done is done. Don’t hear Dees fans lamenting the Watts pick now.

No doubt.

I don't necessarily argue that they got the selection wrong, but I don't disagree with the thought process behind it.

[Ghost Like]

De Goey, Brayshaw and Heeney are certainly the picks from the draft. We had no real say in Heeney & from memory I don't remember De Goey being discussed as a #1. It was all McCartin, Petracca & Brayshaw.

Still shaking my head over our "fear" of Roo retiring, missing out on Boyd and our history of having key forwards as to why we picked up Paddy. Such a knee jerk reaction / selection that only our recruiters could do, too smart by half. Melbourne were the big winners, especially landing pick #3 for Frawley. Well played Dees!!!

Knee jerk?

I'd actually say that the thought process you mentioned is quite the opposite of knee jerk.

It actually makes perfect sense and seems completely reasonable to pick a key forward under the circumstances .

Whether knee jerk is the right or wrong description in the circumstance, I don't agree with the thought process behind it, didn't at the time, don't now. Couple that with a psyche test result being a turn off doesn't fly with me.

As Joffa said, it's done. What the club needs to do now is save what currency is left & move on from the romance of having a dominant key forward, building a cohesive forward six backed by quality, quick, hard working mids.

[BenLong#21]

De Goey would have failed our 'character' and 'family' test anyway.
Doest matter that he is the ultimate modern day football player.

[rodgerfox]

Whether knee jerk is the right or wrong description in the circumstance, I don't agree with the thought process behind it, didn't at the time, don't now. Couple that with a psyche test result being a turn off doesn't fly with me.

As Joffa said, it's done. What the club needs to do now is save what currency is left & move on from the romance of having a dominant key forward, building a cohesive forward six backed by quality, quick, hard working mids.

Fair enough.

Although I don't think McCartin has any currency outside of the Saints.

I think we'd be nuts not to keep him and persist until he at least can string more than 10 games in a row together.


He's been pretty poor really, yet still has over 4 Score Involvements per game in a team which probably has the worst system entering F50 in the comp in the comp. Not only are we terrible at entering F50 - we're 13th in the comp for Inside 50s. So not only do we deliver it terribly, we also deliver it in their rarely!

I absolutely haven't given up on him yet.

Petracca and De Goey have 6.6 Score Involvements per week, McCartin has 4.1.

Given Melbourne and Collingwood are 1st and 3rd respectively for Inside 50s, I think McCartin's actual output is a bit understated. Albeit it's definitely not great, but it's not as terrible as it seems on face value.


Oh, and Petracca has played 62 games, DeGoey 69. McCartin has played 35.

[saintkid]

De Goey, Brayshaw and Heeney are certainly the picks from the draft. We had no real say in Heeney & from memory I don't remember De Goey being discussed as a #1. It was all McCartin, Petracca & Brayshaw.

Still shaking my head over our "fear" of Roo retiring, missing out on Boyd and our history of having key forwards as to why we picked up Paddy. Such a knee jerk reaction / selection that only our recruiters could do, too smart by half. Melbourne were the big winners, especially landing pick #3 for Frawley. Well played Dees!!!

Knee jerk?

I'd actually say that the thought process you mentioned is quite the opposite of knee jerk.

It actually makes perfect sense and seems completely reasonable to pick a key forward under the circumstances .

Whether knee jerk is the right or wrong description in the circumstance, I don't agree with the thought process behind it, didn't at the time, don't now. Couple that with a psyche test result being a turn off doesn't fly with me.

As Joffa said, it's done. What the club needs to do now is save what currency is left & move on from the romance of having a dominant key forward, building a cohesive forward six backed by quality, quick, hard working mids.

It's even more important to have the right credentialed people in the footy club knowing how to identify and pick well in draft pools and subsequently develop these talents. Collingwood did not fluke De Goey or Stephenson. They have much better people behind the club and the results are there for all to see. We have had so many decent picks in the last 6 years and failed most of them. The Tom Lee early pick in the 2012 draft was bizarre from the onset and that alone raised alarm bells for me that the club had a maverick recruitment division. The way we have picked new talent and our tradings since 2012 is the main reason why our list is now one of the worst going around.

[rodgerfox]

It's even more important to have the right credentialed people in the footy club knowing how to identify and pick well in draft pools and subsequently develop these talents. Collingwood did not fluke De Goey or Stephenson. They have much better people behind the club and the results are there for all to see.

?

Do you think Collingwood would have picked DeGoey with Pick 1 if they had it?

Or Stephenson with Pick 1?

They picked Freeman ahead of Cripps and Zach Merrett you know?

We have had so many decent picks in the last 6 years and failed most of them. The Tom Lee early pick in the 2012 draft was bizarre from the onset and that alone raised alarm bells for me that the club had a maverick recruitment division. The way we have picked new talent and our tradings since 2012 is the main reason why our list is now one of the worst going around.

Really?

2017 (Picks 7 & 8):
Clark
Coffield

2016 (Picks 25 & 39):
Ben Long
Battle


2015 (Pick 6, 18 & 40):
Gresham
White
Carlisle

2014 (Pick 1, 21, 22 & 41):
McCartin
Goddard
McKenzie
Lonie
Steele

2013 (Pick 3, 18 &19):
Billings
Dunstan
Acres


Now, if you go back further than that, you'll find out why we suck so bad at the moment. But the last 5 years have been more than decent. Granted, we haven't had a superstar bob up from the pack as yet, but it's certainly not as bad as you make out.
It's the recruitment back in the period from 2009, where the issue lies...

2009 (Pick 32):
Nick Winmar

2010 (Pick 24 & 43):
Cripps (now gone of course)
Sam Crocker

2011 (Picks 25, 35, 37 & 42):
Seb Ross
Markworth
Newnes
Webster

2012 (Picks 24, 25 & 40):
Wright
Spencer White
Murdoch


And guess what was happening to the draft during these years???

[tedtheodorelogan2018]

Drafting from the pre Richardson era was the main issue. The last 5 years have been good picks mostly.
Wrong decisions on mature players were made in the pre Richardson era also.

"It is quality rather than quantity that matters."
Roman philosopher, Seneca.

[BenLong#21]

Drafting from the pre Richardson era was the main issue. The last 5 years have been good picks mostly.
Wrong decisions on mature players were made in the pre Richardson era also.

"It is quality rather than quantity that matters."
Roman philosopher, Seneca.

You are a very patient man.
33% in the 5 years of Cho/Finnis and only 4 wins in year 5.

Webster and Ross in 2011 was a decent return.

[Linton Lodger]

Hunter Clark wont make it - too slow. Same with Acres.

Surely you jest, he's going to be a gun. Don't worry about speed, he's got very good lateral movement, can kick both feet and is a really smart decision maker.

[chico2001]

It's even more important to have the right credentialed people in the footy club knowing how to identify and pick well in draft pools and subsequently develop these talents. Collingwood did not fluke De Goey or Stephenson. They have much better people behind the club and the results are there for all to see.

?

Do you think Collingwood would have picked DeGoey with Pick 1 if they had it?

Or Stephenson with Pick 1?

They picked Freeman ahead of Cripps and Zach Merrett you know?

We have had so many decent picks in the last 6 years and failed most of them. The Tom Lee early pick in the 2012 draft was bizarre from the onset and that alone raised alarm bells for me that the club had a maverick recruitment division. The way we have picked new talent and our tradings since 2012 is the main reason why our list is now one of the worst going around.

Really?

2017 (Picks 7 & 8):
Clark
Coffield

2016 (Picks 25 & 39):
Ben Long
Battle


2015 (Pick 6, 18 & 40):
Gresham
White
Carlisle

2014 (Pick 1, 21, 22 & 41):
McCartin
Goddard
McKenzie
Lonie
Steele

2013 (Pick 3, 18 &19):
Billings
Dunstan
Acres


Now, if you go back further than that, you'll find out why we suck so bad at the moment. But the last 5 years have been more than decent. Granted, we haven't had a superstar bob up from the pack as yet, but it's certainly not as bad as you make out.
It's the recruitment back in the period from 2009, where the issue lies...

2009 (Pick 32):
Nick Winmar

2010 (Pick 24 & 43):
Cripps (now gone of course)
Sam Crocker

2011 (Picks 25, 35, 37 & 42):
Seb Ross
Markworth
Newnes
Webster

2012 (Picks 24, 25 & 40):
Wright
Spencer White
Murdoch


And guess what was happening to the draft during these years???

Not quite sure about your post, you are posing a lot of questions and questions where they shouldnt be. That needs to be sorted out first so the reader can understand what you are babbling on about. If you are trying to say that in the last 5 years picks have been good , well I would disagree on that. There are 3-4 unproven as yet. Gresham, Billings are doing well. Lonie and Dunstan are in and out of the team and Acres....well who knows. Steele and carlisle were good pick ups. So that is out of 15 picks, hardly a success in my opinion especially as not one of them has been an absolute standout. 2014....that was a beauty.