No cattle, what can a coach do?

[6621104]

HAwks - same coach for over a decade, gun players retired and replaced with average GOP's - out of the finals in straight sets.
A great coach does not a great team make!
Players can make the coach look a genius and also a dud. It seems every team needs enough A grade talent before you can judge a coach. I am as disappointed in the insipid Ricoh as anyone, but whether he stays or goes we will go nowhere without real talent.
We need to trade some of the better GOP's if it gets us that gun player - keep our high draft picks and stick to a strategy that will build that A grade core not be panicked into bringing in just who is available

[Impatient Sainter]

HAwks - same coach for over a decade, gun players retired and replaced with average GOP's - out of the finals in straight sets.
A great coach does not a great team make!
Players can make the coach look a genius and also a dud. It seems every team needs enough A grade talent before you can judge a coach. I am as disappointed in the insipid Ricoh as anyone, but whether he stays or goes we will go nowhere without real talent.
We need to trade some of the better GOP's if it gets us that gun player - keep our high draft picks and stick to a strategy that will build that A grade core not be panicked into bringing in just who is available

You are kidding right? Clarkson should be applauded for getting that team to finsihing 4th and playing finals. Richo won 4 games for gods sake.

[The_Dud]

The reason we have ‘no cattle’ is because Richo and his team have done a piss poor job of developing our youngsters over the past 5 years.

[saintadamski]

The reason we have ‘no cattle’ is because Richo and his team have done a piss poor job of developing our youngsters over the past 5 years.

What youngsters are those?
Newnes? Weller? Sinclair?

They couldn't f****** develop in a photo dark room

[saintadamski]

The reason we have ‘no cattle’ is because Richo and his team have done a piss poor job of developing our youngsters over the past 5 years.

What youngsters are those?
Newnes? Weller? Sinclair? etc

They couldn't f****** develop in a photo dark room

[Scollop]

The reason we have ‘no cattle’ is because Richo and his team have done a piss poor job of developing our youngsters over the past 5 years.

It's not just Richo and the assistants. The administrition over the last 5 years has been woeful. Pelchen and Bains and Finnis and other muppets have failed to support the footy department

Year after year they'd signed up the wrong players on multi year deals. I remember Tom Lee being on the list for 2 years more than was necessary to work out whther he'd be a player or not. This year we culled a few more of the guys who had been on the list for probably 5-6 years and only played maybe 20-30 games, not because they were always injured but because they just weren't good enough to cement a spot in the seniors.

[saintadamski]

Oh God this 'coach hasn't developed the players' Bullsh*t again?!?!
recruitment has been mind bendingly F*CKED

The list sucks...
No one will ever develop Newnes
No one will ever develop Savage
No one will ever develop Weller
etc etc etc

Keep recruiting talent like Gresh and Steele, and we might get somewhere

[desertsaint]

well clarkson can take them to a top four finish. he'd have us playing a heck of a lot better than richo. knows his players and how to get the best out of them, and how to train them to play a successful game plan. richo has shown the exact opposite.

[BenLong#21]

Clarkson hasn't had a top ten draft pick in ten years and still managed 15 wins from 24 games.

I think he is going ok.

Our fella managed 4 wins. Just 11 short i guess.

[saintsRrising]

It is not an either or argument.

Coaching
Development
Drafting
Trading
List Management
Off-field Management
Facilities
Luck


and some other factors are all at play. No one club does them all 100% right, but clubs that get them all mainly right tend to do well.

If we want to improve, we need to improve them all. Not just one piece of the puzzle, but all pieces.

Conversely Richo is not the sole reason for where we are. But he has to have been a big reason why.

I mean even look at little things. Gets rid of Joey when he was still playing very well and was known for his on field leadership. This season Richo bemoans the lack of experienced onfield leaders at the club and wants to recruit an older one. T74 stated recently that our training was below par. That has to indicate sub-par coaching.


PS: I think Clarko is a prick, but you have to admit that he can make the most out of whatever cattle he does have.

PSS: I am still concerned that there has been little change in our recruiting department.

[guitars4]

The reason we have ‘no cattle’ is because Richo and his team have done a piss poor job of developing our youngsters over the past 5 years.

It's not just Richo and the assistants. The administrition over the last 5 years has been woeful. Pelchen and Bains and Finnis and other muppets have failed to support the footy department

Year after year they'd signed up the wrong players on multi year deals. I remember Tom Lee being on the list for 2 years more than was necessary to work out whther he'd be a player or not. This year we culled a few more of the guys who had been on the list for probably 5-6 years and only played maybe 20-30 games, not because they were always injured but because they just weren't good enough to cement a spot in the seniors.

I reckon your on the money it's not ones persons fault it's the club collectively. We kept topping up when we were close but as soon as we started to go we went into free fall & we hit the bottom pretty quick . Grand finalist's in 2010 to bottom of the ladder 2014. Poor decisions on & off the field have got us to where we are now we just need to learn from our mistakes & hopefully get the right people on board who can get us back to level where we can be a force again.

[SydneySainter]

Oh God this 'coach hasn't developed the players' Bullsh*t again?!?!
recruitment has been mind bendingly F*CKED

The list sucks...
No one will ever develop Newnes
No one will ever develop Savage
No one will ever develop Weller
etc etc etc

Keep recruiting talent like Gresh and Steele, and we might get somewhere

bulls***? Billings, Acres & Hickey?

Didn’t Pelchen push for Richo’s appointment because of his so-called knack for developing players?

[jays]

this is so true

[Bruce G McAbee]

Let's not forget our non-existent game plan.

[mad saint guy]

The reason we have ‘no cattle’ is because Richo and his team have done a piss poor job of developing our youngsters over the past 5 years.

What youngsters are those?
Newnes? Weller? Sinclair?

They couldn't f****** develop in a photo dark room

Billings, Acres, Dunstan, McCartin, Goddard, Lonie, Longer , Weller, Minchington and many more

[samoht]

Let's not forget our non-existent game plan.

You need talent and a strong list to make a game plan work.
When we come up against a stronger team, plus with the injuries we've had this year and an unsettled line up - it probably looks like we don't have a game plan.

[kaos theory]

HAwks - same coach for over a decade, gun players retired and replaced with average GOP's - out of the finals in straight sets.
A great coach does not a great team make!
Players can make the coach look a genius and also a dud. It seems every team needs enough A grade talent before you can judge a coach. I am as disappointed in the insipid Ricoh as anyone, but whether he stays or goes we will go nowhere without real talent.
We need to trade some of the better GOP's if it gets us that gun player - keep our high draft picks and stick to a strategy that will build that A grade core not be panicked into bringing in just who is available

Right, so hawks have a bunch of GOPS. So that makes their list the same as ours!

They finished 4th, we finished third last!

The difference? The coach and footy department!

You contradicted your own argument.

[DJ Higgins]

Players have gone backwards this year in most aspects of their skill levels. that is down to the coaches, it really is.
As for the recruiting the guys we got in have turned out to be poor and that is partly because of the coaches. They were good elsewhere and now they are below average at St Kilda, What does hat tell you.
Moving back to Morrabbin will help a lot and cut down on training travel time and be good for morale, new assistants in will prove whether it is the coaches or the players in relation to skills levels but the game plan is all Richo.
As for Sinclair not being able to be developed? What a stupid thing to say. 2 years ago he was the only one in our team ranked with elite skills. Argue that all you want it means the kid has skills but play him as a small forward only, not floating back in defence where he isn't effective.

[samuraisaint]

well clarkson can take them to a top four finish. he'd have us playing a heck of a lot better than richo. knows his players and how to get the best out of them, and how to train them to play a successful game plan. richo has shown the exact opposite.

Received a bit of an inside running today - Ratten has brought in his assistant who was his data and stats man at Hawthorn along with him to the Saints. He is a lifelong St. Kilda supporter and apparently one of the absolute best going around in the industry. This is very good news.
As a St Kilda supporter, he is absolutely rapt to be at Moorabbin. Never underestimate the power of data and stats to improve performance. High performing teams pay great attention to detail. And you can bet that this guy has the intrinsic motivation to improve our results.

[freely]

Gotta say - I watched melb/hawks last night and I thought the Hawthorn game plan - when it didn't work (i.e., most of the time last night) - looked very like ours. They seemed slow as treacle. Kept doing things I've seen us do that drive me nuts - kicking backwards to come up the other wing, but so slowly that the other team is all set up so they might as well have carried on as they were, completely unable to take a mark inside the forward 50 and when they did they were at impossible angles. They even did stole some of our best tricks like kicking into the post from 5 metres out! They got into top 4 so obviously doing something right - but on last night, they looked sort of past their use-by.

[spert]

We should have traded more aggressively since Lyon left- even traded out Roo and Joey..did those two help us play finals footy since 2011?....nope. We needed to rebuild our midfield years back, but just ended up with a bunch of serviceable players, and a #1 pick who has had no impact and done nothing except get injured on a regular basis,,couple that with a coach who has basically failed, and then gives him a contract extension..so on and so forth.

I hope that with the new president, we might see some clear, smart direction at the club.

[samoht]

It's not only the talent, we've recruited too many of the same types of players - and we're trying to fit 10 half back flankers into 2 positions, and 6 inside midfielders into 2 positions and 4-6 ruckmen into 1 position.
None of the recruits are A grade - but it looks like Steele is heading that way.

Steele isn't going to let game plans, coaches or CEOs/administration stand in his way - and other players can take a leaf out of his book.

Obviously we've also had injuries and an unsettled lineup this year - but we still got 1/2 a win more than Fremantle did in 2016, despite their million dollar coach and proven game plan.

[samuraisaint]

HAwks - same coach for over a decade, gun players retired and replaced with average GOP's - out of the finals in straight sets.
A great coach does not a great team make!
Players can make the coach look a genius and also a dud. It seems every team needs enough A grade talent before you can judge a coach. I am as disappointed in the insipid Ricoh as anyone, but whether he stays or goes we will go nowhere without real talent.
We need to trade some of the better GOP's if it gets us that gun player - keep our high draft picks and stick to a strategy that will build that A grade core not be panicked into bringing in just who is available

Right, so hawks have a bunch of GOPS. So that makes their list the same as ours!

They finished 4th, we finished third last!

The difference? The coach and footy department!

You contradicted your own argument.

We've only beaten the Hawks once since 2009 - that's the only stat that matters here.
Under the current regime, we've also only beaten Geelong once for years, same with West Coast, and have never beaten Sydney, Port, or Adelaide. They make up a third of our competition and AR has had multiple opportunities to fix our uncompetitiveness and has failed to do so. The first quarter against Sydney and the third quarter against Essendon exemplify the way we've played under his tutelage.
I am certainly looking for more assistant coaches to be exited once the finals are finished and we can start interviewing other potentials. Start with Mark Willliams. If AR stays on, then the assistants need to be changed up.

[rodgerfox]

Oh God this 'coach hasn't developed the players' Bullsh*t again?!?!
recruitment has been mind bendingly F*CKED

The list sucks...
No one will ever develop Newnes
No one will ever develop Savage
No one will ever develop Weller
etc etc etc

Keep recruiting talent like Gresh and Steele, and we might get somewhere

Why do Weller, Savage and Newnes get picked every week if they're not doing what the coach is asking of them?

[samuraisaint]

It's not only the talent, we've recruited too many of the same types of players - and we're trying to fit 10 half back flankers into 2 positions, and 6 inside midfielders into 2 positions and 4-6 ruckmen into 1 position.
None of the recruits are A grade - but it looks like Steele is heading that way.

Steele isn't going to let game plans, coaches or CEOs/administration stand in his way - and other players can take a leaf out of his book.

Obviously we've also had injuries and an unsettled lineup this year - but we still got 1/2 a win more than Fremantle did in 2016, despite their million dollar coach and proven game plan.

Yes, but they played in a GF in 2013, tumbled down the ladder and have leapfrogged us again.