Very Dark Clouds Are Gathering

[damienc]

Normally I try to be an optimist when it comes to our footy club with emphasis on the word try.
I like to put the best possible positive spin because, let’s face it, we all live in hope. Hope that one day history will repeat itself and we will win another premiership.

But there are a few things I need to get off my chest so to speak.

First off, we just had one of our worst seasons ever and no one appears to be accountable for this.

Now when I say worst season ever ,I'm sure we’ve had worse years in terms of win loss ratio. What I mean by worst, is in terms of where we were meant to be. Disaster, catastrophe, appalling are the adjectives I would use to describe this year. We were meant to be challenging for the eight this year. Can you believe it? We were challenging for the eight alright. The bottom eight.

We were supposed to be on the rise like Melbourne and Richmond.

What a joke.

We’ve gone backwards. And not by any kind of small margin. That is infuriating in itself.

What gets my blood boiling is the lack of accountability for the situation the club is in.

Ok. We’ve cleaned out some of the deadwood player wise. What a surprise. Some specialist coaches have gone. Again a no brainer.

But Richo has sailed through this without a mark on him.

Despite what you might think this is not another Richo bashing exercise. No need for me to do it. Plenty of people have already done it on this forum.

I just think some hard questions need to be put to the coach. Like if 2018 was your game plan how come it didn’t work?

I mean seriously. The only comment the club has made is to say Richo will be coaching in 2019. Ok. If you still think he is the best man for the job how about putting him on notice? How about saying to him this can’t continue Richo? If it does mate you need to be looking for a new job.

Now I will readily concede maybe this conversation has already taken place between the club and Richo, in private. I hope it has. But in my view it needs to be said publicly. It needs to be said for the sake of this club’s long suffering supporters. To pretend it is business as usual is BS. Sorry, not credible.

Ok. Second major gripe. We are not a destination club.

None of the big name mid fielders who might be on the move want to come and play for us. And that has to be a serious worry.

Andrew Gaff, Dylan Shiel are both guys who we could really do with. Neither appears to want to play for the Saints.

But oh I hear you say. What about Dan Hannebery?

I say, what about him.?

Dan Hannebery has been one of the Swans best, a hard working, gut running All Australian mid fielder. Note I used the word has. I’ve watched Hannebery pretty closely of late. His season has pretty much mirrored ours. Well below what we know he is capable of.

I’ll go further and say Hannebery looks cooked. His body has finally said enough. He will never be the player he once was. So why are we offering him five years at a huge salary? It smacks of desperation to me.

I question the deal we are supposedly offering Hannebery with the one we offered Lycett. Thank God that fell over. Lycett is no Max Gawn. Very far from it. What were we thinking? $700 k a season to a guy who went alright rather than great for West Coast? He was no where near worth what we were prepared to pay him. We dodged a bullet on him.

So where does that leave us?

Not in a good place that is for sure. How long will it take for us to recover from the setback of this year? How long is a piece of string.

I just could not bear another year like 2018 but it's looking increasingly likely to me that it’s the only thing we can expect.

[The Recruit]

Not sure why you felt you need to repeat all of what we have been talking about for a month.

But if it helps you than go for it.

Yep we suck. And it’s a long way back. Richo is on notice...can’t sack him because we have no money.

Etc etc.

Hanners will be an excellent recruit

[Wayne42]

I'm waiting patiently for the 2018 trade and draft activities to have concluded. By then we will know exactly how we have set up for 2019.

We will also know who the assistant and development coaches are. We can then deal in fact, not speculation.

[No.11]

There is still massive pressure on the coach. The money men ( and women )are not happy and are expressing their views to the board. Expect more to come. It certainly isn’t over.

[longtimesaint]

Do we have to wait till 2109 for the next shot at a premiership -I don't think I will still be supporting the Saints!

[kalsaint]

Normally I try to be an optimist when it comes to our footy club with emphasis on the word try.
I like to put the best possible positive spin because, let’s face it, we all live in hope. Hope that one day history will repeat itself and we will win another premiership.

But there are a few things I need to get off my chest so to speak.

First off, we just had one of our worst seasons ever and no one appears to be accountable for this.

Now when I say worst season ever ,I'm sure we’ve had worse years in terms of win loss ratio. What I mean by worst, is in terms of where we were meant to be. Disaster, catastrophe, appalling are the adjectives I would use to describe this year. We were meant to be challenging for the eight this year. Can you believe it? We were challenging for the eight alright. The bottom eight.

We were supposed to be on the rise like Melbourne and Richmond.

What a joke.

We’ve gone backwards. And not by any kind of small margin. That is infuriating in itself.

What gets my blood boiling is the lack of accountability for the situation the club is in.

Ok. We’ve cleaned out some of the deadwood player wise. What a surprise. Some specialist coaches have gone. Again a no brainer.

But Richo has sailed through this without a mark on him.

Despite what you might think this is not another Richo bashing exercise. No need for me to do it. Plenty of people have already done it on this forum.

I just think some hard questions need to be put to the coach. Like if 2018 was your game plan how come it didn’t work?

I mean seriously. The only comment the club has made is to say Richo will be coaching in 2019. Ok. If you still think he is the best man for the job how about putting him on notice? How about saying to him this can’t continue Richo? If it does mate you need to be looking for a new job.

Now I will readily concede maybe this conversation has already taken place between the club and Richo, in private. I hope it has. But in my view it needs to be said publicly. It needs to be said for the sake of this club’s long suffering supporters. To pretend it is business as usual is BS. Sorry, not credible.

Ok. Second major gripe. We are not a destination club.

None of the big name mid fielders who might be on the move want to come and play for us. And that has to be a serious worry.

Andrew Gaff, Dylan Shiel are both guys who we could really do with. Neither appears to want to play for the Saints.

But oh I hear you say. What about Dan Hannebery?

I say, what about him.?

Dan Hannebery has been one of the Swans best, a hard working, gut running All Australian mid fielder. Note I used the word has. I’ve watched Hannebery pretty closely of late. His season has pretty much mirrored ours. Well below what we know he is capable of.

I’ll go further and say Hannebery looks cooked. His body has finally said enough. He will never be the player he once was. So why are we offering him five years at a huge salary? It smacks of desperation to me.

I question the deal we are supposedly offering Hannebery with the one we offered Lycett. Thank God that fell over. Lycett is no Max Gawn. Very far from it. What were we thinking? $700 k a season to a guy who went alright rather than great for West Coast? He was no where near worth what we were prepared to pay him. We dodged a bullet on him.

So where does that leave us?

Not in a good place that is for sure. How long will it take for us to recover from the setback of this year? How long is a piece of string.

I just could not bear another year like 2018 but it's looking increasingly likely to me that it’s the only thing we can expect.

My emotions are also on edge given our history and observation of other clubs like Melbourne and Richmond. Now Melbourne can relaegate this club to the biggest gap between Premierships. Brisbane in one year has passed us. This is related to list and leadership on the ground. They recognised exodus of senior players would kill off leadeship so recruited Hodge. They passed us on the ladder due to both points and next year I expect they pressure game will further improve and they could be pushing for finals. We have declined and as you say, without clear assessment or accountability. Now we have a review in place but the new President is saying we happen looked deeply enough into this!? Well the errors of judgement see mt o keep coming.

I honestly believe we have a poor management system. This looks at Strategy and Tactics in all club areas. It assesses things like values, SWOT analysis, PESTE analysis (both related to internal and external influences), overall club direction and ultimately sets up key strategic priorities.
Management seeks to plan, do and review all the aspects of each club department every season. On a shorter basis, it should be seeking continuous improvement through change in all club departments or aspects. If the hub of the management system is plan do and review, then how can we continue to make poor decisions, not realise our weaknesses and not recognise unsuccessful previous decisions? I would suggest they dont review enough or dont act upon actions needed to correct these things.

On footy department stuff its similar. As Clarko says Coaches look at the systems. By interpretation they review progression and performance with the system in mind. On the ground team Leaders correct performance in a very short review time frame. They should be focussing on ensureing the game plan is doing its job and that the players are executing their roles in this. They will correct the performance of an yteam mate using direct instruction, coaching, supporting or delegation depending on the capability and experience of players. If you get a run of goals by the opposition the game leaders should be acting to change things and hold players accountable through Leadership attributes. These can be soft or hard skills but they are needed all game. The other part of ground leadership is feedback to coaches. This is a review process that needs to happen weekly. The system should include continuous improvement change.

Without Leadership everything falls apart.

I sspect our guys will improve next year due to their lessons learnt this year. Howevfer we have been burnt off the track by similar clubs in consecutive years. A correction hasnt been made on the ground but allso the coaches system hasnt worked or isnt workable given the strength skills or condition of players to ececute it. I reckin Richo needs to assess these matter and not just say they dont work hard enough. I reckon thats partly true but if the system is broke it need review and change. Roles need to be clear. Accountability essential. The same thing happens in all successful teams in sport or business.

I certainly not a Richo basher. He has a contract that gos to end of 2020 but has a performance clause that could end his time end of 2019. With the Coaching support we should see how differently the team plays. We will need half a season at minimum to see the potential of changes.

The President saying we havent looked hard enough in our 2018 review says it all to me. We dont have a strong leaning to review or actions for correction.

[guitars4]

Unfortunately if we got rid of all the dead wood we would only have a handful of players left & yep its going to be a long way back . Even a good coach would struggle to get us to a level where we could be competitive in the near future & Richo's got a snow mans chance in hell IMO.

[kalsaint]

Unfortunately if we got rid of all the dead wood we would only have a handful of players left & yep its going to be a long way back . Even a good coach would struggle to get us to a level where we could be competitive in the near future & Richo's got a snow mans chance in hell IMO.

I'm not sure about that.

Sometimes a good clearout is scary for some but allows others to get a chance to show their capability. If the stability in the club returns off the footy ground and in the coaches team we might get a slightly different set of leadership attributes displayed to more senior players. This might rock the boat a bit if Rooey is correct in what he has said this year. They might be pushed with increased expectation and some may rise quickly to the challenge.

Recruitment needs to address leadership. We cant keep instructing younger players or coaching senior players forever. There is a time when some must be used in support roles or delegated to alternative roles and be capable to deliver in any new roles. Weve had a good look this year. I reckon several players, with opportunity and a tougher approach from coaches for accountability to the plan, just might surprise us. We need Leadership on the ground to act as the glue to make it all stick. So the focus on leadership is essential. Without it, we could wait another 5 years irrespective of who the coach may be.

[To the top]

Explain to me that we could draw with GWS, best Melbourne and should have beaten Hawthorn

Did they all have off days against us?

Because they are all sides still in the hunt for the 2018 Premiership

Why can we compete such then fall away so badly over the greater majority of the season?

Good sides are consistent

That is why those 3 sides mentioned are still in the hunt

St Kilda evidenced no consistency whatsoever

Why not?

Injuries?

Too much reliance on too few?

Player confidence and commitment?

Any answers?

[Teflon]

There is still massive pressure on the coach. The money men ( and women )are not happy and are expressing their views to the board. Expect more to come. It certainly isn’t over.

I hope that is based of some good internal insight / knowledge

[rodgerfox]

Explain to me that we could draw with GWS, best Melbourne and should have beaten Hawthorn

??

What's to explain?

We Drew with GWS, didn't win.

We lost to Hawthorn. Didn't win.

We beat Melbourne by 2 points, after conceding about 60 I50s.


What needs explanation?

[St Loxton]

Explain to me that we could draw with GWS, best Melbourne and should have beaten Hawthorn

Did they all have off days against us?

Because they are all sides still in the hunt for the 2018 Premiership

Why can we compete such then fall away so badly over the greater majority of the season?

Good sides are consistent

That is why those 3 sides mentioned are still in the hunt

St Kilda evidenced no consistency whatsoever

Why not?

Injuries?

Too much reliance on too few?

Player confidence and commitment?

Any answers?

Injuries/retirements were a factor.

Koby Stevens at his best was in our best 22. Very handy.

Dylan Roberton. Our combo of 2 intercepting talls on HB is key. He is solid.

Jimmy Webster injured really affected our rebound. Was in top form.

Josh Bruce, i concede wasn't in great form this season, but is part of Richos structure. He can be very good if he sticks the hands.

Ben Long i think offers more than Lonie, Meatball and Weller. He could have turned a few heads this season with a good run at it.

Blake Acres was on the verge of taking that leap to the next level before he had a spell. Must keep this kid.

Not saying all or any of the above players would have got us into finals. But would have brought us closer to the opposition score.

The void left by Roo especially and Joey also was a factor.
The leadership slack was not taken a hold of, i believe we just don't have the leadership cattle. If Robbo had kept on his trajectory i would have him as captain. I don't see much else except maybe Ross or Steele.

[guitars4]

Unfortunately if we got rid of all the dead wood we would only have a handful of players left & yep its going to be a long way back . Even a good coach would struggle to get us to a level where we could be competitive in the near future & Richo's got a snow mans chance in hell IMO.

I'm not sure about that.

Sometimes a good clearout is scary for some but allows others to get a chance to show their capability. If the stability in the club returns off the footy ground and in the coaches team we might get a slightly different set of leadership attributes displayed to more senior players. This might rock the boat a bit if Rooey is correct in what he has said this year. They might be pushed with increased expectation and some may rise quickly to the challenge.

Recruitment needs to address leadership. We cant keep instructing younger players or coaching senior players forever. There is a time when some must be used in support roles or delegated to alternative roles and be capable to deliver in any new roles. Weve had a good look this year. I reckon several players, with opportunity and a tougher approach from coaches for accountability to the plan, just might surprise us. We need Leadership on the ground to act as the glue to make it all stick. So the focus on leadership is essential. Without it, we could wait another 5 years irrespective of who the coach may be.

Totally respect your opinion & thats what this forum is for IMO to ask the question & get a response even if it's not how you see it at least we are all trying to find a solution hopefully the powers to be might listen . Nah that is never gunna happen my bad.

[No.11]

There is still massive pressure on the coach. The money men ( and women )are not happy and are expressing their views to the board. Expect more to come. It certainly isn’t over.

I hope that is based of some good internal insight / knowledge

Matt F will be taking calls on Monday.

[chico2001]

There is still massive pressure on the coach. The money men ( and women )are not happy and are expressing their views to the board. Expect more to come. It certainly isn’t over.

I hope that is based of some good internal insight / knowledge

Matt F will be taking calls on Monday.

You dont have to be Enstein to work out the knowledge on this one surely. Are you saying the pressure is off the coach then? So therefore all is rosey now. So all of those who have some say in the future of a dud coach are happy with what is happening now, thats great news but....how would you know that?

[Teflon]

There is still massive pressure on the coach. The money men ( and women )are not happy and are expressing their views to the board. Expect more to come. It certainly isn’t over.

I hope that is based of some good internal insight / knowledge

Matt F will be taking calls on Monday.

You dont have to be Enstein to work out the knowledge on this one surely. Are you saying the pressure is off the coach then? So therefore all is rosey now. So all of those who have some say in the future of a dud coach are happy with what is happening now, thats great news but....how would you know that?

How does that mean pressure off the coach?
I took that to mean opposite..

[Jacks Back]

There is still massive pressure on the coach. The money men ( and women )are not happy and are expressing their views to the board. Expect more to come. It certainly isn’t over.

I hope that is based of some good internal insight / knowledge

Matt F will be taking calls on Monday.

You dont have to be Enstein to work out the knowledge on this one surely. Are you saying the pressure is off the coach then? So therefore all is rosey now. So all of those who have some say in the future of a dud coach are happy with what is happening now, thats great news but....how would you know that?

How does that mean pressure off the coach?
I took that to mean opposite..

I took it that Finnis has to answer the questions (i.e. why the heck did he extend Richardson's contract).

[Teflon]

There is still massive pressure on the coach. The money men ( and women )are not happy and are expressing their views to the board. Expect more to come. It certainly isn’t over.

I hope that is based of some good internal insight / knowledge

Matt F will be taking calls on Monday.

You dont have to be Enstein to work out the knowledge on this one surely. Are you saying the pressure is off the coach then? So therefore all is rosey now. So all of those who have some say in the future of a dud coach are happy with what is happening now, thats great news but....how would you know that?

How does that mean pressure off the coach?
I took that to mean opposite..

I took it that Finnis has to answer the questions (i.e. why the heck did he extend Richardson's contract).

Yeah me too so that would mean the pressure is not off the coach?

[Linton Lodger]

There is still massive pressure on the coach. The money men ( and women )are not happy and are expressing their views to the board. Expect more to come. It certainly isn’t over.

That's my impression. That there is hesitancy within the Board or by the whole Board.

Is it a question of a review into the Coach not been finalised?

Or the options of a replacement limited or risky?

Or do they (including Lethlean) genuinely believe he's the man with better resources around him, but are been pressured by benefactors?

Any ideas?

[chico2001]

There is still massive pressure on the coach. The money men ( and women )are not happy and are expressing their views to the board. Expect more to come. It certainly isn’t over.

I hope that is based of some good internal insight / knowledge

Matt F will be taking calls on Monday.

You dont have to be Enstein to work out the knowledge on this one surely. Are you saying the pressure is off the coach then? So therefore all is rosey now. So all of those who have some say in the future of a dud coach are happy with what is happening now, thats great news but....how would you know that?

How does that mean pressure off the coach?
I took that to mean opposite..

I posted that on " I hope that is based of some internal insight/knowledge" which I thought that meant "unless there is proof then how can you say the coach is under massive pressure". A misunderstanding and I am not sure why that statement was actually made.

[Enrico_Misso]

All I know is that the future is looking grim and the club's way of handling it is to just replace a few deckchairs.

Meanwhile the StKilda-Cordia sails on towards the rocks with Alan Schettino asleep at the wheel and first officer Matt Finito below decks supervising the unisex restroom conversions.

[WellardSaint]

great metaphor!!
For all the Milennials who can quote Taylor Swift lyrics but know zero about anything else,
there is a shipwreck called the Costa Concordia that sailed too close to rocks in the Mediterranean,
as Capt Schettino was trying to impress his mistress in the ship's wheelhouse/bridge,
and also folks in a nearby seaside village.

[WellardSaint]

a few months ago,
tony74 said that if we have some bad losses, end up near bottom, etc,
there's a very rich person with substantial backing who could cause a spill
of the Board.

Tony has been missing for a bit, either because the spill is gathering momentum,
or because he threatened to never return after he was criticized by some on here.

The waiting is the hardest part.

[saintspremiers]

There is still massive pressure on the coach. The money men ( and women )are not happy and are expressing their views to the board. Expect more to come. It certainly isn’t over.

I hope that is based of some good internal insight / knowledge

Matt F will be taking calls on Monday.

You dont have to be Enstein to work out the knowledge on this one surely. Are you saying the pressure is off the coach then? So therefore all is rosey now. So all of those who have some say in the future of a dud coach are happy with what is happening now, thats great news but....how would you know that?

How does that mean pressure off the coach?
I took that to mean opposite..

I took it that Finnis has to answer the questions (i.e. why the heck did he extend Richardson's contract).

Matt has been extremely quiet until now. All the media is either through Lethlean or Bassat.

Be interesting to hear his spin on it.

Surely if key benefactors are making a lot of noise the club has to listen??

[Teflon]

BF rumour suggesting Steven considering Cats offer..