Anybody worried our club might fold?

[skeptic]

Honestly, it’s never something that I’ve been really concerned about but I’m there now...

We’re in what $12m debt?
It appears we’re about to sack and pay out the coach. Either that or we’ll back a known bad horse for 12 more months.
Off-field we’ve gone backwards and it looks like our 5 year rebuild is about to start over. No FAs want to come to us
The supporter base is disenfranchised... it’s seems numbers could drop and there’s not of new members attracted to the club
Crap attendance, dismal prime time showings
There’s no money scheme. No Tassie. No NZ. No wealthy benefactor to save us.

There’s talk about there bring too many Vic clubs... a Tassie club, that 18 teams is unsustainable... AFL supporters regularly suggesting that we fold, merge etc


Can anyone reassure me here?

[Trev from the Bush]

No.

[hayes66]

Yes. I am not a businessman’s long lunch hour but if you are 12millon in debt it has to be a concern.
You would think the Saints are geographically well placed.
Unfortunately, either though poor management or the market is just not there we have struggled to be self sufficient.
I would think the AFL would want a club representating the south eastern suburbs but historically we have struggled financially. I do not know the answer but I am concerned.

[David-Lee]

We arent folding.
We are not sacking the head coach. We are bringing in the experienced guns that are experts in propping up a sh!te coach and very good with player development. They may not be good enough to be head coaches again but I reason they be better than Richo.

We will play better next season. We will have improved culture and a hard edge and if the trade, draft and FA go right we could nab a future gun mid, a ruck, and experienced big mid/forward.

Regardless we wont cut Richo or we would have to pay him out for the full year plus 25% of 2020. If we hang tough through 2019 we get to cut him loose if he fails.

There's also a chance we cut him after round 6 which I believe released the 25% 2020 pay out, but still triggers the full season payout.

The person who read the contract ( supposedly) and I dont doubt it because of her job, told me these terms. She was slightly tipsy but I was sober as usual and l recall every word. No, she is not a club staff....that's a hint.

[whiskers3614]

We arent folding.
We are not sacking the head coach. We are bringing in the experienced guns that are experts in propping up a sh!te coach and very good with player development. They may not be good enough to be head coaches again but I reason they be better than Richo.

We will play better next season. We will have improved culture and a hard edge and if the trade, draft and FA go right we could nab a future gun mid, a ruck, and experienced big mid/forward.

Regardless we wont cut Richo or we would have to pay him out for the full year plus 25% of 2020. If we hang tough through 2019 we get to cut him loose if he fails.

There's also a chance we cut him after round 6 which I believe released the 25% 2020 pay out, but still triggers the full season payout.

The person who read the contract ( supposedly) and I dont doubt it because of her job, told me these terms. She was slightly tipsy but I was sober as usual and l recall every word. No, she is not a club staff....that's a hint.

Tanya Hird?

[David-Lee]

We arent folding.
We are not sacking the head coach. We are bringing in the experienced guns that are experts in propping up a sh!te coach and very good with player development. They may not be good enough to be head coaches again but I reason they be better than Richo.

We will play better next season. We will have improved culture and a hard edge and if the trade, draft and FA go right we could nab a future gun mid, a ruck, and experienced big mid/forward.

Regardless we wont cut Richo or we would have to pay him out for the full year plus 25% of 2020. If we hang tough through 2019 we get to cut him loose if he fails.

There's also a chance we cut him after round 6 which I believe released the 25% 2020 pay out, but still triggers the full season payout.

The person who read the contract ( supposedly) and I dont doubt it because of her job, told me these terms. She was slightly tipsy but I was sober as usual and l recall every word. No, she is not a club staff....that's a hint.

Tanya Hird?

I dont know is she a paralegal that gets drunk a lot?

[Teflon]

We arent folding.
We are not sacking the head coach. We are bringing in the experienced guns that are experts in propping up a sh!te coach and very good with player development. They may not be good enough to be head coaches again but I reason they be better than Richo.

We will play better next season. We will have improved culture and a hard edge and if the trade, draft and FA go right we could nab a future gun mid, a ruck, and experienced big mid/forward.

Regardless we wont cut Richo or we would have to pay him out for the full year plus 25% of 2020. If we hang tough through 2019 we get to cut him loose if he fails.

There's also a chance we cut him after round 6 which I believe released the 25% 2020 pay out, but still triggers the full season payout.

The person who read the contract ( supposedly) and I dont doubt it because of her job, told me these terms. She was slightly tipsy but I was sober as usual and l recall every word. No, she is not a club staff....that's a hint.

I wouldn’t be so sure we ain’t sacking him...

[SinCitySainter]

No, we are not going to fold. The AFL cannot afford to lose a club for the same reason as the AFL will not shorten the length of the season.
It is all about TV money. They need 18 teams because that is 9 games a week which is what the TV stations want and will pay for.
Less games the stations will pay less money.

[Cairnsman]

Skeptic maybe time to step away from the keyboard and breathe. If necessary talk to someone you trust.

[guitars4]

If we don't turn around our on field performance IMO It's a really possibility. The ability to attract & keep members & sponsors is a real worry . Trying to keep required players & entice free agents is going to get harder unless you can demonstrate there is a future at the club.The AFL has already put us on notice to get our financial issues in order & with out on field success I don't see how we can keep the wolves from the door

[skeptic]

Skeptic maybe time to step away from the keyboard and breathe. If necessary talk to someone you trust.

Seriously?

It’s just a question

[Yorkeys]

Old saying incorrectly attributed to Clive Palmer: If you owe a million you have a problem if you owe 12 million your bankers have a problem. Too big to fail now and too much reputational damage to the AFL after spending squillions on expansion if they cut a side. Everyone has to start bailing and rowing but.

[Enrico_Misso]

... then we could relocate to Manila.

[HardSaint]

... then we could relocate to Manila.

with Finnis and the whole AFL tentacle thing we've got going on, Lethlean lending a hand while in the doghouse - we've been treated with contempt by the AFL who see our club as if it's their plaything

we're already in Manila

[kalsaint]

Honestly, it’s never something that I’ve been really concerned about but I’m there now...

We’re in what $12m debt?
It appears we’re about to sack and pay out the coach. Either that or we’ll back a known bad horse for 12 more months.
Off-field we’ve gone backwards and it looks like our 5 year rebuild is about to start over. No FAs want to come to us
The supporter base is disenfranchised... it’s seems numbers could drop and there’s not of new members attracted to the club
Crap attendance, dismal prime time showings
There’s no money scheme. No Tassie. No NZ. No wealthy benefactor to save us.

There’s talk about there bring too many Vic clubs... a Tassie club, that 18 teams is unsustainable... AFL supporters regularly suggesting that we fold, merge etc


Can anyone reassure me here?

Sorry Skeptic but I cant rest your concerns. I wrote about this about 10 weeks ago on Facebook and nothing looks rosy just yet. Still the same old potential being highlighted but we arent big on delivery of the potential into reality.

What really concnerns me is the Tassie push for a club could be a hidden trap. I remember a few years back playng North in Hobart and the young boys made a good fight of the game but got trounced in the third quarter. At half time those young kids had the gtame attendees standing up for them. The commentators of the game said we had more support there than North that day. May not now after the disappointments but Saints have always been popular in Tassie soce the Baldock days.

When I took holidays there to meet the family people were always commenting on the Saints clothing I wore and got into chats. Many wished Saints had moved there. These people were from Launceston too.

It would be an easy fix for the AFL and the current assets could always be sold. The Tassie Govt would always provide some support.

Not keen on this myself but we keep opening ourselves up to these sorts of options. Interstate clubs elsewhere are always on th case of reducing Melbourne clubs.

[HardSaint]

What really concnerns me is the Tassie push for a club could be a hidden trap. I remember a few years back playng North in Hobart and the young boys made a good fight of the game but got trounced in the third quarter. At half time those young kids had the gtame attendees standing up for them. The commentators of the game said we had more support there than North that day. May not now after the disappointments but Saints have always been popular in Tassie soce the Baldock days.

When I took holidays there to meet the family people were always commenting on the Saints clothing I wore and got into chats. Many wished Saints had moved there. These people were from Launceston too.

It would be an easy fix for the AFL and the current assets could always be sold. The Tassie Govt would always provide some support.

Not keen on this myself but we keep opening ourselves up to these sorts of options. Interstate clubs elsewhere are always on th case of reducing Melbourne clubs.

Yes, but dont you reckon, wherever we go, whatever project the AFL might want us / have us
we're gonna f*** it up - St Kilda just rolls like that

they gave us Tassie on a platter, a veritable heartland, we couldnt make it work,

they give us boutique and theme games with prime TV exposure - we turn people off AFL, make an absolute shambles out of any opportunity
We got all sorts of AFL brownie points with NZ - we couldnt win a game, let alone grow a code

dont worry, no matter how they reshape, merge, graft anything Red White and Black, anything Saints or StKillda with anything else anywhere else - its doomed

Its cheaper and easier to let us be - leave us in the too hard but necessary basket

[Waltzing St Kilda]

When we're playing well we draw huge crowds. We're not as big as Collingwood, Essendon, Richmond & Carlton
but we used to be as big as Hawthorn. We're certainly bigger than North, the Bulldogs and Melbourne.

The Tigers going from basket case to the biggest supported club in the league is a good example of how
quickly things can change.

Unfortunately no club iis prone to such disastrous decisions ... move to Seaford ... play games
in NZ ... extend Richo's contract for no reason, etc., etc.

[Myron Gaines]

Owing 10M (which it is I believe) means very little. The question is what are the clubs assets worth & can they service the loan repayments? Just because you owe 40% on your house mortgage doesn’t mean you are going to fold on it. It’s all relative.

[jays]

no chance dont stress

[Barneysaint]

Rubbish post. How can we fold. Afl would back saints to the hilt. We have powerbrokers in Bassett, Fox, Gadinski, Meldrum, Warne z owner of Lincraft.

[samuraisaint]

Honestly, it’s never something that I’ve been really concerned about but I’m there now...

We’re in what $12m debt?
It appears we’re about to sack and pay out the coach. Either that or we’ll back a known bad horse for 12 more months.
Off-field we’ve gone backwards and it looks like our 5 year rebuild is about to start over. No FAs want to come to us
The supporter base is disenfranchised... it’s seems numbers could drop and there’s not of new members attracted to the club
Crap attendance, dismal prime time showings
There’s no money scheme. No Tassie. No NZ. No wealthy benefactor to save us.

There’s talk about there bring too many Vic clubs... a Tassie club, that 18 teams are unsustainable... AFL supporters regularly suggesting that we fold, merge etc


Can anyone reassure me here?

I think I can.
A lot of that $12 million went towards servicing the AFL's Docklands Stadium deal, a stadium which has now sold it's naming rights to Marvel. Most of that money was paid off during our Golden Years in 2003-2012 when we won 67% of our matches. The AFL cannot and will not just suddenly decide to leave us out in the cold when we were a massive generator of funds towards paying off their major asset.
With regards to money - if there are not 18 teams, the AFL product is diluted, and the broadcasters, plural, will be able to renegotiate a far cheaper deal moving forward. That's potentially billions of Aus dollars.
We are the only side based south of the Yarra and in the area where I work, live and play, between Mordialloc and Mornington, I see a lot of St Kilda jumpers, scarves, coats and bumper stickers around. Soccer and Rugby would absolutely love it if there was no St. Kilda in the heartland of football believe me.
Times have changed. GWS and the Suns, and the Lions are all in a far more parlous state than we are. If we win a few games the supporters will jump back on. Our attendances are nowhere near the low numbers at Fitzroy and South Melbourne matches during their final years, and we were terrible at times this season. That gives me heart.
On the coach; we won't sack Richo in the short term (next year). That is plainly obvious. Ratten, Williams, Lade, will shake things up and hopefully, the game plan will be completely overhauled and that will make a major difference to our win/loss ratio. I would suggest anything less than a 50% win rate in 2019 will see him exited though. If we win 11 matches next year I would say he'll stay on for 2020 at least.
On the no Tassie, no NZ thing, there has been discussion of us playing one game against Port Adelaide next year in China, so there'll be money in that.

[saint-stu]

I'm not worried in the short term. 10M is not that much and we have an amazing facility to show for it. I'm sure many people will throw in money if it got dire (I would).

I am, however, more worried about the long term. I live right near Moorabbin and we had Jade Gresham and Josh Battle visit my kids AusKick a month or two ago. My sons and one other kid were the only saints supporters. Right near Moorabbin! There are dozens of Collingwood kids though.

Also worrying is supporters saying they will stop financial support unless XYZ happens. If the club doesn't have enough money, we will never challenge. My brother in law (hawks member) commented that there is a reason the top 4 teams were the most wealthy.

[SaintPav]

No, we are not going to fold. The AFL cannot afford to lose a club for the same reason as the AFL will not shorten the length of the season.
It is all about TV money. They need 18 teams because that is 9 games a week which is what the TV stations want and will pay for.
Less games the stations will pay less money.

What if there’s a severe financial crisis?

Take a look at Seven West’s balance sheet. It’s a T.V rights bubble.

There are no iron clad guarantees. Things can change.

[Crossy66]

Agree that the financial debt isnt a problem , its the supporter base. Over the last few years i have noticed that the Saints fans are quieter , you can usually hear a pin drop even after a goal. Our games are boring, the numbers are dwindling and our team so beige. We dont have that marquee player to get excited about i.e. riewoldt, Lockett, Harvey, etc. Even my kids dont want to go to games anymore. I am ambivalent on all our players and not fussed who is traded, except maybe Jack Steven.
We simply must keep this years draft pick and it must be that marquee player.
FWIW, i actually think we have a solid group that could improve rapidly with a couple of stars
Have been a saints fan for many years and cant recall feeling less inspired.

[saintspremiers]

It’s a disgrace we haven’t for two years sold off any home games. The easiest thing is home games at the G, but that doesn’t help us much as we can’t draw crowds.

Fingers cross we are Port’s bitch next year in China - that adds a bit.

Re Richo - if he’s sacked and replaced by Ratten, if we have one less assistant, then the nett financial impact is less.