So who was that for

[dragit]

When your game plan is based around pressure and Kamakaze play on at all costs, it seems to come together a handful of times per year against sides who aren't quite switched on.

These games are the exception not the norm, so let's not kid ourselves that this vindicates richo in any way.

Kudos to the players for cracking in and giving their all.

Now sack richo so we don't lose any good young players at the end of the year.

[rodgerfox]

When your game plan is based around pressure and Kamakaze play on at all costs, it seems to come together a handful of times per year against sides who aren't quite switched on.

These games are the exception not the norm, so let's not kid ourselves that this vindicates richo in any way.

Kudos to the players for cracking in and giving their all.

Now sack richo so we don't lose any good young players at the end of the year.

Exactly.

It was the polish, and the system that once again let us down.

[takeaway]

Looked to me like the players took control of the planning for this game. Had a totally different feel to a Richo prepared game.

It’s survival time , futures time players did this for themselves not cause they love Alan ffs

What a load of crap. They all played a great game against a current top 4 side just for survival...get real.

I’d prefer if you didn’t read or respond to my posts as you’re clearly not all ther upstairs pretending to be an ITK and laughably attacking Jaxons who has runs on the board. Stick to you’re inane drivel but leave me out of it
Oh and btw - this time of year brings up some weird footy results because lots of people are trying to survive.....grow up

Stop making stuff up. ITK...lol. Attackig Jaxons...lol.

You just can't handle the side put in an effort for everyone tonight.

Yes I’m furious that the side played a good game for individ7al reasons....
St Kilda......the masters of together ...seperately...

So when we play badly it is all Richo's fault, and when we put in a good 4 quarter effort it is nothing to do with the coach but the players playing for survival, most of whom are contracted next year at least? Outstanding analysis.

So let’s turn your theory around.....
The players decided they love Alan so much they waited till second last game of the year to show up? Some genius in that thinking....
Regardless who they play for or dont it doesn’t matter one iota - we flogged Richmond a year ago and haven’t fired a shot since this coach can not consistently get the best out of this side and yes some players need to go as well and will.
But let’s not pretend a brilliant game plan just suddenly appeared.
It also doesn’t matter if a player is contracted....many will want to show a new employer they’re worth it....already strong rumours Dunstan and Acres want out but we’ll leave it to football tacticians like you to tell us all is good with the coaching after another loss...

Where did I say all is good with the coaching? Coaching throughout the club needs improvement and hopefully that will be addressed end of season. It was a combination of factors - players playing for spots next year, a game plan that worried hawthorn (coaching?), and players like Billings, Steele, Marshall gaining in confidence. We still had a lot of players out, so very encouraging. They certainly didn't play like a disgruntled rabble of a team.

You seem to go out of your way just to put it all on the coaching, which is not the case. Anyway, you and your cohorts are looking likely to have another year to pot the coaching.

[samuraisaint]

Great effort last night, and I enjoyed the game while still being disappointed that we didn't manage to win it. Certainly glad that I was one of the few St Kilda supporters to actually go.
But let's be honest, in the cold, hard light of day, the fact remains that we've only won a third of our matches - 33.7% - in the past five seasons. In that time the list has been turned over and the player development really has been extremely poor. List management has been amateurish, let's be honest, and we've turned full circle from 2013 to go back to where we started the rebuild. It's no good just saying it's not all one person's fault so nobody has to any collective responsibility. Coaches enjoy a good standard of living and become prominent individuals in Australian society. You apply for the gig, you work for the members and the club supporters.
Since 2012 we have won 35% of our matches, with that number being artificially inflated by the 2012 season when we still had our great list from the 2000s, and before we began our rebuild.
Although this decade hasn't been as poor as poor as others we can name - the 80s and the 50s being two notoriously poor eras - some absolutely ruthless decisions must be made with regards to the entire club, from the top down. I don't see how we can let our recruiter go, and three assistants, while leaving the senior assistant coaches in their roles.
I mean, it defies logic - some of the players we have recruited may have really developed out of sight with the right training and development, but haven't received it, so they look like poor choices.
The senior coach will have to stay due to the cost of a payout, but he needs to wake up that supporters and members are going to vote with their feet and drop off if he doesn't start to play deserved younger inexperienced players, at the expense of role players. And he has to change the game style as we don't have the players to implement it plus, let's be honest, it's unwatchable.
Even if just some of the rumours coming out of the club are true the team and club have taken their eyes off the ball due to a raft of decisions and circumstances, the major one being the move back to Moorabbin, which I believe has had a negative effect on our 2018 season.
Under any performance indicators you assess against, the club's performance this year has been substandard (and I didn't expect us to make finals, or win more than 11 games, so I believe my expectations were more realistic than those of many others).
We won't survive another two years of this mismanagement so they really need to get it right.

[Teflon]

When your game plan is based around pressure and Kamakaze play on at all costs, it seems to come together a handful of times per year against sides who aren't quite switched on.

These games are the exception not the norm, so let's not kid ourselves that this vindicates richo in any way.

Kudos to the players for cracking in and giving their all.

Now sack richo so we don't lose any good young players at the end of the year.

Imagine if we had structure going forward last night...
Imagine if we had a plan that when sides pressured us or clamped down on our kamikaze style we knew what to do
Imagine...all the players.....living in harmony....
You may say Alan’s a dreamer....and you’re not the only one...
I hope one day he’ll leave us...
And the Saints....will live as one..

[Teflon]

Looked to me like the players took control of the planning for this game. Had a totally different feel to a Richo prepared game.

It’s survival time , futures time players did this for themselves not cause they love Alan ffs

What a load of crap. They all played a great game against a current top 4 side just for survival...get real.

I’d prefer if you didn’t read or respond to my posts as you’re clearly not all ther upstairs pretending to be an ITK and laughably attacking Jaxons who has runs on the board. Stick to you’re inane drivel but leave me out of it
Oh and btw - this time of year brings up some weird footy results because lots of people are trying to survive.....grow up

Stop making stuff up. ITK...lol. Attackig Jaxons...lol.

You just can't handle the side put in an effort for everyone tonight.

Yes I’m furious that the side played a good game for individ7al reasons....
St Kilda......the masters of together ...seperately...

So when we play badly it is all Richo's fault, and when we put in a good 4 quarter effort it is nothing to do with the coach but the players playing for survival, most of whom are contracted next year at least? Outstanding analysis.

So let’s turn your theory around.....
The players decided they love Alan so much they waited till second last game of the year to show up? Some genius in that thinking....
Regardless who they play for or dont it doesn’t matter one iota - we flogged Richmond a year ago and haven’t fired a shot since this coach can not consistently get the best out of this side and yes some players need to go as well and will.
But let’s not pretend a brilliant game plan just suddenly appeared.
It also doesn’t matter if a player is contracted....many will want to show a new employer they’re worth it....already strong rumours Dunstan and Acres want out but we’ll leave it to football tacticians like you to tell us all is good with the coaching after another loss...

Where did I say all is good with the coaching? Coaching throughout the club needs improvement and hopefully that will be addressed end of season. It was a combination of factors - players playing for spots next year, a game plan that worried hawthorn (coaching?), and players like Billings, Steele, Marshall gaining in confidence. We still had a lot of players out, so very encouraging. They certainly didn't play like a disgruntled rabble of a team.

You seem to go out of your way just to put it all on the coaching, which is not the case. Anyway, you and your cohorts are looking likely to have another year to pot the coaching.

Where did I say it was all coaching? (this game is fun) infact I think I also said players too need to go?
You seem to go out of your way to vindicate coaching off 1 game.....we actually lost....
You also ignore the fact that the Hawks, like Tigers a year ago, allowed us time and space to play on at all costs without pressuring us.......better sides (scary but Hawks still rebuilding) will stop that rubbish and we’ve seen this season when they do we become turn over kings
What part of that is a good game plan?
You’ll be happy to have Alan back next season no doubt cause you clearly like “pleasing mediocrity” me? I want Prez, CEO (fool) and Alan frog marched so we might be finally able to sell members some hope
5 years plenty of time to instill a consistent game plan into this side. He’s failed - admit it.

[takeaway]

Looked to me like the players took control of the planning for this game. Had a totally different feel to a Richo prepared game.

It’s survival time , futures time players did this for themselves not cause they love Alan ffs

What a load of crap. They all played a great game against a current top 4 side just for survival...get real.

I’d prefer if you didn’t read or respond to my posts as you’re clearly not all ther upstairs pretending to be an ITK and laughably attacking Jaxons who has runs on the board. Stick to you’re inane drivel but leave me out of it
Oh and btw - this time of year brings up some weird footy results because lots of people are trying to survive.....grow up

Stop making stuff up. ITK...lol. Attackig Jaxons...lol.

You just can't handle the side put in an effort for everyone tonight.

Yes I’m furious that the side played a good game for individ7al reasons....
St Kilda......the masters of together ...seperately...

So when we play badly it is all Richo's fault, and when we put in a good 4 quarter effort it is nothing to do with the coach but the players playing for survival, most of whom are contracted next year at least? Outstanding analysis.

So let’s turn your theory around.....
The players decided they love Alan so much they waited till second last game of the year to show up? Some genius in that thinking....
Regardless who they play for or dont it doesn’t matter one iota - we flogged Richmond a year ago and haven’t fired a shot since this coach can not consistently get the best out of this side and yes some players need to go as well and will.
But let’s not pretend a brilliant game plan just suddenly appeared.
It also doesn’t matter if a player is contracted....many will want to show a new employer they’re worth it....already strong rumours Dunstan and Acres want out but we’ll leave it to football tacticians like you to tell us all is good with the coaching after another loss...

Where did I say all is good with the coaching? Coaching throughout the club needs improvement and hopefully that will be addressed end of season. It was a combination of factors - players playing for spots next year, a game plan that worried hawthorn (coaching?), and players like Billings, Steele, Marshall gaining in confidence. We still had a lot of players out, so very encouraging. They certainly didn't play like a disgruntled rabble of a team.

You seem to go out of your way just to put it all on the coaching, which is not the case. Anyway, you and your cohorts are looking likely to have another year to pot the coaching.

Where did I say it was all coaching? (this game is fun) infact I think I also said players too need to go?
You seem to go out of your way to vindicate coaching off 1 game.....we actually lost....
You also ignore the fact that the Hawks, like Tigers a year ago, allowed us time and space to play on at all costs without pressuring us.......better sides (scary but Hawks still rebuilding) will stop that rubbish and we’ve seen this season when they do we become turn over kings
What part of that is a good game plan?
You’ll be happy to have Alan back next season no doubt cause you clearly like “pleasing mediocrity” me? I want Prez, CEO (fool) and Alan frog marched so we might be finally able to sell members some hope
5 years plenty of time to instill a consistent game plan into this side. He’s failed - admit it.

I think you need to concentrate harder and read more than the first few words of posts.

[Teflon]

Looked to me like the players took control of the planning for this game. Had a totally different feel to a Richo prepared game.

It’s survival time , futures time players did this for themselves not cause they love Alan ffs

What a load of crap. They all played a great game against a current top 4 side just for survival...get real.

I’d prefer if you didn’t read or respond to my posts as you’re clearly not all ther upstairs pretending to be an ITK and laughably attacking Jaxons who has runs on the board. Stick to you’re inane drivel but leave me out of it
Oh and btw - this time of year brings up some weird footy results because lots of people are trying to survive.....grow up

Stop making stuff up. ITK...lol. Attackig Jaxons...lol.

You just can't handle the side put in an effort for everyone tonight.

Yes I’m furious that the side played a good game for individ7al reasons....
St Kilda......the masters of together ...seperately...

So when we play badly it is all Richo's fault, and when we put in a good 4 quarter effort it is nothing to do with the coach but the players playing for survival, most of whom are contracted next year at least? Outstanding analysis.

So let’s turn your theory around.....
The players decided they love Alan so much they waited till second last game of the year to show up? Some genius in that thinking....
Regardless who they play for or dont it doesn’t matter one iota - we flogged Richmond a year ago and haven’t fired a shot since this coach can not consistently get the best out of this side and yes some players need to go as well and will.
But let’s not pretend a brilliant game plan just suddenly appeared.
It also doesn’t matter if a player is contracted....many will want to show a new employer they’re worth it....already strong rumours Dunstan and Acres want out but we’ll leave it to football tacticians like you to tell us all is good with the coaching after another loss...

Where did I say all is good with the coaching? Coaching throughout the club needs improvement and hopefully that will be addressed end of season. It was a combination of factors - players playing for spots next year, a game plan that worried hawthorn (coaching?), and players like Billings, Steele, Marshall gaining in confidence. We still had a lot of players out, so very encouraging. They certainly didn't play like a disgruntled rabble of a team.

You seem to go out of your way just to put it all on the coaching, which is not the case. Anyway, you and your cohorts are looking likely to have another year to pot the coaching.

Where did I say it was all coaching? (this game is fun) infact I think I also said players too need to go?
You seem to go out of your way to vindicate coaching off 1 game.....we actually lost....
You also ignore the fact that the Hawks, like Tigers a year ago, allowed us time and space to play on at all costs without pressuring us.......better sides (scary but Hawks still rebuilding) will stop that rubbish and we’ve seen this season when they do we become turn over kings
What part of that is a good game plan?
You’ll be happy to have Alan back next season no doubt cause you clearly like “pleasing mediocrity” me? I want Prez, CEO (fool) and Alan frog marched so we might be finally able to sell members some hope
5 years plenty of time to instill a consistent game plan into this side. He’s failed - admit it.

I think you need to concentrate harder and read more than the first few words of posts.

To be fair though, It’s hard going reading your unintelligible shyte

[Linton Lodger]

Looked to me like the players took control of the planning for this game. Had a totally different feel to a Richo prepared game.

They pretty much went one on one.

[Cairnsman]

Looked to me like the players took control of the planning for this game. Had a totally different feel to a Richo prepared game.

They pretty much went one on one.

One word...effort and intensity.

So much can be overcome when you have that one word. It doesn't require talent.

[parkeysainter]

Looked to me like the players took control of the planning for this game. Had a totally different feel to a Richo prepared game.

They pretty much went one on one.

One word...effort and intensity.

So much can be overcome when you have that one word. It doesn't require talent.

The way they played last night is the way we played when we won 12 and 11 games the 2 previous seasons.

Not sure why its been missing most of this year. Odd. We just lacked a touch of talent last night (like Gunston and Breust) otherwise we win. Any AFL footy player has the ability to put on pressure, tackle, chase and play with intensity. As you said, it doesn't require talent.

[rodgerfox]

Looked to me like the players took control of the planning for this game. Had a totally different feel to a Richo prepared game.

They pretty much went one on one.

One word...effort and intensity.

So much can be overcome when you have that one word. It doesn't require talent.

I disagree with this premise.

And I think this is where the entire problems stems from.


Effort and intensity is a necessity. Nothing works without it. Every teams brings it, every week to varying levels.

But it's what comes on top of that effort and intensity that is the difference between good teams and s*** ones.


Hawthorn were belted in intensity, contested possessions etc. etc. - but they won the game.

Their systems and methods, and structures facilitated them keeping the scoreboard ticking over even when they were having a bad day.

It seems that our only system, is to put on pressure and play like vikings. When we do, we're competitive - but we still get smacked by good teams. Why? Because it's simply not enough on its own.


This is why Richardson must go. I truly believe he doesn't realise this, and if he does he simply isn't capable of blending the 'pressure' thing with an effective and efficient strategy.

[rodgerfox]

Looked to me like the players took control of the planning for this game. Had a totally different feel to a Richo prepared game.

They pretty much went one on one.

One word...effort and intensity.

So much can be overcome when you have that one word. It doesn't require talent.

The way they played last night is the way we played when we won 12 and 11 games the 2 previous seasons.

Not sure why its been missing most of this year. Odd. We just lacked a touch of talent last night (like Gunston and Breust) otherwise we win. Any AFL footy player has the ability to put on pressure, tackle, chase and play with intensity. As you said, it doesn't require talent.

I'd argue that the way we played last night remains the reason we ONLY won 12 and 11 games the previous two seasons.

No system. No strategy. No polish.

[parkeysainter]

Looked to me like the players took control of the planning for this game. Had a totally different feel to a Richo prepared game.

They pretty much went one on one.

One word...effort and intensity.

So much can be overcome when you have that one word. It doesn't require talent.

The way they played last night is the way we played when we won 12 and 11 games the 2 previous seasons.

Not sure why its been missing most of this year. Odd. We just lacked a touch of talent last night (like Gunston and Breust) otherwise we win. Any AFL footy player has the ability to put on pressure, tackle, chase and play with intensity. As you said, it doesn't require talent.

I'd argue that the way we played last night remains the reason we ONLY won 12 and 11 games the previous two seasons.

No system. No strategy. No polish.

I have got a feeling that the coaches complicated the game plan too much for the players before the start of this season. It backfired for whatever reason. It was probably done in good faith to get us to the next level.

When we have played simple and basic footy this year we look pretty good, just like most of 2016 and 2017.

[tony74]

Looked to me like the players took control of the planning for this game. Had a totally different feel to a Richo prepared game.

They pretty much went one on one.

One word...effort and intensity.

So much can be overcome when you have that one word. It doesn't require talent.

The way they played last night is the way we played when we won 12 and 11 games the 2 previous seasons.

Not sure why its been missing most of this year. Odd. We just lacked a touch of talent last night (like Gunston and Breust) otherwise we win. Any AFL footy player has the ability to put on pressure, tackle, chase and play with intensity. As you said, it doesn't require talent.

I'd argue that the way we played last night remains the reason we ONLY won 12 and 11 games the previous two seasons.

No system. No strategy. No polish.

I have got a feeling that the coaches complicated the game plan too much for the players before the start of this season. It backfired for whatever reason. It was probably done in good faith to get us to the next level.

When we have played simple and basic footy this year we look pretty good, just like most of 2016 and 2017.

Nailed it.

[rodgerfox]

As an armchair expert, it appeared obvious that the transition from defence to offence and vice versa, was totally confusing and simply not working. They simply didn't facilitate each other.



However, last night, like the past two mediocre seasons we've had have been due to a chronic lack of system going forward.

Manic play-on and moving the ball forward super fast - without a system and method for doing so is a massive failure by our coaches.

It's been an enormous problem for three years.

It's not the first time we've failed to capitalise on being the more dominant team.

[Cairnsman]

Looked to me like the players took control of the planning for this game. Had a totally different feel to a Richo prepared game.

They pretty much went one on one.

One word...effort and intensity.

So much can be overcome when you have that one word. It doesn't require talent.

I disagree with this premise.

And I think this is where the entire problems stems from.


Effort and intensity is a necessity. Nothing works without it. Every teams brings it, every week to varying levels.

But it's what comes on top of that effort and intensity that is the difference between good teams and s*** ones.


Hawthorn were belted in intensity, contested possessions etc. etc. - but they won the game.

Their systems and methods, and structures facilitated them keeping the scoreboard ticking over even when they were having a bad day.

It seems that our only system, is to put on pressure and play like vikings. When we do, we're competitive - but we still get smacked by good teams. Why? Because it's simply not enough on its own.


This is why Richardson must go. I truly believe he doesn't realise this, and if he does he simply isn't capable of blending the 'pressure' thing with an effective and efficient strategy.

Absolutely agree,

the sum of all parts.

Where we depart is in the the belief that the coach needs to be sacked immediately, why do I think that, because I think our greatest need over the next 2 or 3 years is list enhancement, notice the use of the word 'enhancement'.

A lack of onfield resources and depth of list.

A new head coach and game plan won't help with our greatest and immediate need, accessing resouces. It might only help if the club pulls off the greatest coup of all time and snares Alastair Clarkson which could add some gravitas during trade periods. But that aint happening this year.

It makes great sense to roll the dice with Richo for another 12 months and sure, all the meanwhile circle the coaching talent pool like a barracuda for the ultimate kill while during that time feverishly trying to "enhance" the list.

Hold your nerve.

Don't be be pressured into the ridiculous notion of a "circuit breaker" to appease the media or entitled supporters.

Fix the things you can fix, methodically.

Everyone asumes Richo can't improve. Is it so hard to believe that he has been told to change his game plan and actually agrees. Getting Richo new assistants with fresh ideas is surely something him and Lethlean agree on. The game plan is all but only one part of the many, many parts and if it's fixable without beheading the coach then isn't that the smart thing to do.

[Scollop]

Looked to me like the players took control of the planning for this game. Had a totally different feel to a Richo prepared game.

They pretty much went one on one.

One word...effort and intensity.

So much can be overcome when you have that one word. It doesn't require talent.

The way they played last night is the way we played when we won 12 and 11 games the 2 previous seasons.

Not sure why its been missing most of this year. Odd. We just lacked a touch of talent last night (like Gunston and Breust) otherwise we win. Any AFL footy player has the ability to put on pressure, tackle, chase and play with intensity. As you said, it doesn't require talent.

I'd argue that the way we played last night remains the reason we ONLY won 12 and 11 games the previous two seasons.

No system. No strategy. No polish.

I have got a feeling that the coaches complicated the game plan too much for the players before the start of this season. It backfired for whatever reason. It was probably done in good faith to get us to the next level.

When we have played simple and basic footy this year we look pretty good, just like most of 2016 and 2017.

Nailed it.

That's obviously a recruiting issue. Get smarter players

sarcasm alert

btw, I think as a playing group they did it for each other. Does it mean that with a majority young group ( with so many injured senior players ) that they gell together better? Could it be, that they were making a statement to the coach and the list managers that they do have ability, they do have skill, and most of all, they DO NOT need a bunch of dubious older 'so called' senior leaders to be added to the playing group?

[rodgerfox]

I could begrudgingly live with Richardson staying - but Kingsley would have to.go.

As a coaching team, they've failed horribly.

If Richardson isn't the problem, it has to be Kingsley. And vice versa.

Coaching is THE issue in my opinion.


With our coaching currently, we'd still be average even if we recruited two superstars. They'd just slightly paper over the massive cracks in our strategy, like Riewoldt did.

Alternatively, if we change our strategy we will improve instantly.

Richardson seems to think that being 'strong' and applying pressure is a game plan. He seems to think that doing that is THE answer.

His selection reflects it, and his guidance to players clearly does too.

We have seemingly record concussions, yet can't score even when we do bring more pressure than our opposition.


There's a long way to go to be a contender, but that journey won't even start until there are fundamental changes to the coaching philosophy.

[parkeysainter]

Looked to me like the players took control of the planning for this game. Had a totally different feel to a Richo prepared game.

They pretty much went one on one.

One word...effort and intensity.

So much can be overcome when you have that one word. It doesn't require talent.

The way they played last night is the way we played when we won 12 and 11 games the 2 previous seasons.

Not sure why its been missing most of this year. Odd. We just lacked a touch of talent last night (like Gunston and Breust) otherwise we win. Any AFL footy player has the ability to put on pressure, tackle, chase and play with intensity. As you said, it doesn't require talent.

I'd argue that the way we played last night remains the reason we ONLY won 12 and 11 games the previous two seasons.

No system. No strategy. No polish.

I have got a feeling that the coaches complicated the game plan too much for the players before the start of this season. It backfired for whatever reason. It was probably done in good faith to get us to the next level.

When we have played simple and basic footy this year we look pretty good, just like most of 2016 and 2017.

Nailed it.

Thanks T74. Well, whatever they tried this year hopefully isn't implemented next year.

Can you please give us some inisght on Pearce and Marshall. Do you think they have what it takes?

[Teflon]

I could begrudgingly live with Richardson staying - but Kingsley would have to.go.

As a coaching team, they've failed horribly.

If Richardson isn't the problem, it has to be Kingsley. And vice versa.

Coaching is THE issue in my opinion.


With our coaching currently, we'd still be average even if we recruited two superstars. They'd just slightly paper over the massive cracks in our strategy, like Riewoldt did.

Alternatively, if we change our strategy we will improve instantly.

Richardson seems to think that being 'strong' and applying pressure is a game plan. He seems to think that doing that is THE answer.

His selection reflects it, and his guidance to players clearly does too.

We have seemingly record concussions, yet can't score even when we do bring more pressure than our opposition.


There's a long way to go to be a contender, but that journey won't even start until there are fundamental changes to the coaching philosophy.

Agree
Completely farcical to sack a few assistants and presto....problem solved!
If that eventuates we aren’t fair dinkum and still playing to the Finnis and this Boards drum which 5 years later onfield has failed - just think practically about that......if you were a senior executive and failed to get best out of your team for 5 years you’d be assed.....it’s very simple.
Again, big test but I think the changes need bigger dominoes to fall then Alan and co are fair game