Player talk is pleasing

[james rose]

I'm glad we're into everyone.

We should be.

If a player can walk into your 22 and arguably top 10 and you don't have to give up anything other than cash great!

Would rather Menzel for 10 games a year than some on our list fit and available all year.

Love to see us massively reshape our list by bringing 4 or 5 players in who make our best 22 and culling a few.

Gaff, Menzel, Lycett, Hanners and Goddard.

Build your best 22 including them and the side for next year at least looks interesting if not exciting.

[Scollop]

Gaff yes. Lycett, Hanners and Goddard No.

Unless our aim is to be the new Richmond ...or rather the old Richmond ( 2005-2009 ) under Terry Wallace

Carlton also tried a similar approach under Malthouse..same thing with Brisbane under Michael Voss. When teams have gone hard at recruiting ready made players instead of going to the draft it has always turned out to be a horrible failure. Only exception I can think of was back in the early 70's before the draft and before equalisation/salary caps when North Melbourne put together a winning team and won 2 flags under Barrassi.

You've got a team like Port Adelaide this year who are desperate to go deep into September after being knocked out in round 1 and even with the likes of a bunch of All Austaralians and A grade talent they may even struggle to make the top 8. Absolutely wrong strategy when they already had a decent list in my opinion.

I don't like quick fixes and short cuts. Employ the right people to build a team and do it the right way mainly by developing a core group if you want to win a flag. If you want to win 8-12 games for a couple of years and then go down the ladder again, then sure go for Hanners and Goddard.

[Moods]

Gaff yes. Lycett, Hanners and Goddard No.

Unless our aim is to be the new Richmond ...or rather the old Richmond ( 2005-2009 ) under Terry Wallace

Carlton also tried a similar approach under Malthouse..same thing with Brisbane under Michael Voss. When teams have gone hard at recruiting ready made players instead of going to the draft it has always turned out to be a horrible failure. Only exception I can think of was back in the early 70's before the draft and before equalisation/salary caps when North Melbourne put together a winning team and won 2 flags under Barrassi.

You've got a team like Port Adelaide this year who are desperate to go deep into September after being knocked out in round 1 and even with the likes of a bunch of All Austaralians and A grade talent they may even struggle to make the top 8. Absolutely wrong strategy when they already had a decent list in my opinion.

I don't like quick fixes and short cuts. Employ the right people to build a team and do it the right way mainly by developing a core group if you want to win a flag. If you want to win 8-12 games for a couple of years and then go down the ladder again, then sure go for Hanners and Goddard.

Sounds great in theory. Sadly our drafting is woeful. Only thing worse is our player development. Our best option at this stage is recruiting and hope that the players are already developed and can play.

Hannerberry may turn out ok if his body holds up. Lycett is a good target for mine. Goddard is ridiculous. Menzel I'm a bit dubious on, mainly because he can't run. He can at least kick a goal when the opportunity arises.

[Scollop]

If we can have a decent season or two it will help us win enough games of football to sustain the club, grow memberships, be seen as a destination club and all that, so I understand the financial pressures that the club is faced with. The coaches and the board might be looking to resurrect the team in stages but in the long run you're only going to be a top 4 team by recruiting well and developing players well so we must get that right asap.

We must employ the right people in those areas. We must get the right coaches who have a long term plan. Sure...go for these players to come in but the focus on recruitment and development of players must be paramount imo.

[james rose]

FB Roberton Brown Geary
CHB Goddard Carlise Webster
C Gresham Gaff Acres
CHF Menzel Bruce Membrey
FF Billings McCartin Sinclair

R Lycett Steven Ross


Bench Armitage Steele Clark Long

Emg Freeman Savage Hickey/Longer

Looks a lot better 22 to me.

[Saintmatt]

Gaff yes. Lycett, Hanners and Goddard No.

Unless our aim is to be the new Richmond ...or rather the old Richmond ( 2005-2009 ) under Terry Wallace

Carlton also tried a similar approach under Malthouse..same thing with Brisbane under Michael Voss. When teams have gone hard at recruiting ready made players instead of going to the draft it has always turned out to be a horrible failure. Only exception I can think of was back in the early 70's before the draft and before equalisation/salary caps when North Melbourne put together a winning team and won 2 flags under Barrassi.

You've got a team like Port Adelaide this year who are desperate to go deep into September after being knocked out in round 1 and even with the likes of a bunch of All Austaralians and A grade talent they may even struggle to make the top 8. Absolutely wrong strategy when they already had a decent list in my opinion.

I don't like quick fixes and short cuts. Employ the right people to build a team and do it the right way mainly by developing a core group if you want to win a flag. If you want to win 8-12 games for a couple of years and then go down the ladder again, then sure go for Hanners and Goddard.

Largely true however, I think the comparison that we appear to be taking is actually more for it to hopefully turn out like Collingwood when Malthouse arrived there - he had a hotch potch of foreign legionnaires bought in to stablise an otherwise very weak list (Wakelin, Freeborn, Steinfort, Molloy, Clement from memory). That at least gave them a backbone of senior players to recruit and develop around.

As we know - our Senior players aren't that flash and it's pretty sad when two of our best 5 kickers were only drafted 9 months ago.

As for Port - I think they actually bought in too much outside talent and integrated them all at once - Watts, Motlop & Rockliff means that 17% of their team had to learn not only a new game plan but also the way their team mates play all within in 5 months.

[Saintmatt]

FB Roberton Brown Geary
CHB Goddard Carlise Webster
C Gresham Gaff Acres
CHF Menzel Bruce Membrey
FF Billings McCartin Sinclair

R Lycett Steven Ross


Bench Armitage Steele Clark Long

Emg Freeman Savage Hickey/Longer

Looks a lot better 22 to me.

Agrred. But only so long as they're given a clear 2019-appropriate game plan to execute or, at the very least - one that suits the skills of the players on the list

[Scollop]

As long as it's part of a plan and strategy and not just an exercise in self preservation then fingers crossed. I don't like the fact that some/all of our approaches have become public. Doesn't give me great confidence that we'll land our targets. Gives other clubs time to prepare a counter offer and too much information regarding our overall tactics. Can't we ask managers to sign a confidentiality clause?

[Saintmatt]

We could - but as Kevin Bartlett says - the 2nd language of the AFL industry is lying. Hard to disagree - you'd be hard-pressed to come across another industry that's so self-serving, self-preserving and unscrupulous.

[takeaway]

As long as it's part of a plan and strategy and not just an exercise in self preservation then fingers crossed. I don't like the fact that some/all of our approaches have become public. Doesn't give me great confidence that we'll land our targets. Gives other clubs time to prepare a counter offer and too much information regarding our overall tactics. Can't we ask managers to sign a confidentiality clause?

I too would prefer it to be less public. Like North last year really. However, as far as other clubs go, people talk, player managers talk (even if to get their player's value up) - I'm pretty sure most clubs would have a pretty good idea who is targeting who. We only see the tip of the iceberg. We probably won't land most of our targets, but we are definitely looking at all gettable options.

[Teflon]

The new saints:
Just happy to be talked about again....
Need a tshirt

[shanegrambeau]

Gaff yes. Lycett, Hanners and Goddard No.

Unless our aim is to be the new Richmond ...or rather the old Richmond ( 2005-2009 ) under Terry Wallace

Carlton also tried a similar approach under Malthouse..same thing with Brisbane under Michael Voss. When teams have gone hard at recruiting ready made players instead of going to the draft it has always turned out to be a horrible failure. Only exception I can think of was back in the early 70's before the draft and before equalisation/salary caps when North Melbourne put together a winning team and won 2 flags under Barrassi.

You've got a team like Port Adelaide this year who are desperate to go deep into September after being knocked out in round 1 and even with the likes of a bunch of All Austaralians and A grade talent they may even struggle to make the top 8. Absolutely wrong strategy when they already had a decent list in my opinion.

I don't like quick fixes and short cuts. Employ the right people to build a team and do it the right way mainly by developing a core group if you want to win a flag. If you want to win 8-12 games for a couple of years and then go down the ladder again, then sure go for Hanners and Goddard.

I am also wary being old enough to remember the years of 1981-1985. Just think of the experienced talent we recruited during those years, Morewood, McConville and half of the list of Carlton. They made for an interesting story, like a kind of quirky team that was fascinating but unpredictable except the undeniable result of bottom finishes, like a roller coaster that always finished where it started, at the lowest point.

[shanegrambeau]

So I am more in favor of an organic build up even if fertilized by draft concessions-heavily- like the GT era.

[james rose]

The GT 2004 team had the following imports

Heath Black
Stephen Powell
Aaron Hamill
Brett Voss
Fraser Gehrig
Luke Penny
Jason Gram
Brent Guerra
Trent Knobel

[Saintmatt]

The GT 2004 team had the following imports

Heath Black
Stephen Powell
Aaron Hamill
Brett Voss
Fraser Gehrig
Luke Penny
Jason Gram
Brent Guerra
Trent Knobel

Barry Brookes
Fergus Watts
Steve Lawrence
Craig Callaghan

[saintsRrising]

So I am more in favor of an organic build up even if fertilized by draft concessions-heavily- like the GT era.

If you mean via the draft only then that is not going to work.

Look at GWS and the Suns who have both had many multiples of early picks, and way more than we would have and they are both still not there, though GWS is close (and even they have grabbbed experienced players)..


You need to do ALL.

ie
- Draft good kids, also draft some good older overlooked players
- Take what FAs you can (though for Saints this mainly means non-stars)
- Trade


But the main thing is to get the right players and not too many of the same type position and please for today's football more that use the ball well and have some pace. we too often pounce on the players that other clubs have passed on.

The Dons in targeting and gaining Saad and Devon did very well last year. Imagine what those two could have done blended into our list?

[saintsRrising]

The GT 2004 team had the following imports

Heath Black
Stephen Powell
Aaron Hamill
Brett Voss
Fraser Gehrig
Luke Penny
Jason Gram
Brent Guerra
Trent Knobel

Barry Brookes
Fergus Watts
Steve Lawrence
Craig Callaghan

Don't stop there:
Guerra
Ackland
Capuano

..and I am sure others...

[Schillaci]

Interesting that Hawthorn's 22 v geelong on the weekend featured...
Burgoyne (Port)
O'Meara (GC)
Gunston (Adel)
Mitchell (Syd)
Impey (Port)
Frawley (Melb)
Henderson (Adel)

So long as we don't pay overs I wouldn't mind seeing Menzel, Lycett and Gaff at the Saints.

[Teflon]

Interesting that Hawthorn's 22 v geelong on the weekend featured...
Burgoyne (Port)
O'Meara (GC)
Gunston (Adel)
Mitchell (Syd)
Impey (Port)
Frawley (Melb)
Henderson (Adel)

So long as we don't pay overs I wouldn't mind seeing Menzel, Lycett and Gaff at the Saints.

I just struggle to trust our ability to bring in the right imports .....Hawks/Swans seem to do it often

[George27]

Gaff yes. Lycett, Hanners and Goddard No.

Unless our aim is to be the new Richmond ...or rather the old Richmond ( 2005-2009 ) under Terry Wallace

Carlton also tried a similar approach under Malthouse..same thing with Brisbane under Michael Voss. When teams have gone hard at recruiting ready made players instead of going to the draft it has always turned out to be a horrible failure. Only exception I can think of was back in the early 70's before the draft and before equalisation/salary caps when North Melbourne put together a winning team and won 2 flags under Barrassi.

You've got a team like Port Adelaide this year who are desperate to go deep into September after being knocked out in round 1 and even with the likes of a bunch of All Austaralians and A grade talent they may even struggle to make the top 8. Absolutely wrong strategy when they already had a decent list in my opinion.

I don't like quick fixes and short cuts. Employ the right people to build a team and do it the right way mainly by developing a core group if you want to win a flag. If you want to win 8-12 games for a couple of years and then go down the ladder again, then sure go for Hanners and Goddard.

I am also wary being old enough to remember the years of 1981-1985. Just think of the experienced talent we recruited during those years, Morewood, McConville and half of the list of Carlton. They made for an interesting story, like a kind of quirky team that was fascinating but unpredictable except the undeniable result of bottom finishes, like a roller coaster that always finished where it started, at the lowest point.

Ah yes, the Carlton reserves team. Greg Champion wrote a song about it ( to the tune of "Putting on the Ritz":

"When you're Blue and you don't know where to go to,
Why don't you go down with your mates
Playing for the Saints"


Some of them were very ordinary ( hello, Spiro ), but Bomba Sheldon was pretty good and Peter McConville played a lot of very good footy for us .Also, McConville Maintenance became purveyors of fine handyman services in the southern suburbs.

[Scollop]

As long as it's part of a plan and strategy and not just an exercise in self preservation then fingers crossed. I don't like the fact that some/all of our approaches have become public. Doesn't give me great confidence that we'll land our targets. Gives other clubs time to prepare a counter offer and too much information regarding our overall tactics. Can't we ask managers to sign a confidentiality clause?

Most people would agree that the strategy and planning from the last 5 years has failed. Where do we want to be in 5 years time? What is the new plan to get there? What is going to differentiate us from our competition for the next 5-10 years. What are the areas that we want to focus on and make them our strengths. Found a thread from Bluthy that he posted straight after the Doggies 2016 premiership win. The thread had some great posts and also a fantastic article from afl.com outlining the Doggies strengths

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2016-09-28/h ... heir-lists

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=91795&p=1640218&hil ... s#p1640218