Phillips and Brown re-sign

[groupie1]

First of all Nathan Brown is not a star player. Fair enough with Boomer or with Nick Riewoldt they got as much out of themselves as they could and I reckon both Saints and Kangas probably gave both players 1-2 more years than most other players would have got. As for Boomer playing this year and it being ' a fine line'...Wrong!!

Did you not realise that he finished at the end of 2016?

He and a lot of the senior players had already peaked. The North Melbourne Football club realised in 2016 that the team line up had performed as well as they coulld and it was highly unlikely that there'd be improvement in Boomer or Dal Santo or Petrie or Spud Firritto. They knew if they stuck with the same line up they were simply delaying the inevitable fall down the ladder and delaying getting valuable game time into their youth.

See this is where a good list management and footy department sees where a team wants to be in the future and makes these calls, rather than just focusing on the now.

Look at how Geelong and Hawthorn have 'pushed out' some players and even their stars over the last 5-6 years. Hodgey had 1-2 left in him. Ling, Stevie J, James Kelly, and others probably had 1-2 left in them. Go back and see the ages that these guys were pushed out of Geelong. They are the benchmark and we wouldn't do too badly following their lead in this area. The policy is thinking about the club first and thinking about sustained opportunities to rejuvinate and improve the list and keep up with the best teams.

I did get Boomer's retirement year wrong, but I disagree.

Firstly, Geelong eased out Johnson and Kelly and co to squeeze in Dangerfield ... their aim was absolutely nothing to do with blooding kids - it was about cap space for proven stars. They were ABSOLUTELY thinking about the NOW. I agree with you though that it was good list management - you've just misdiagnosed what they were actually doing.

As Paul Roos says over and over and over again... you can still develop players in the reserves. You call me a Geelong and Hawthorn (neither of whom have won a flag since they began their transitions, BTW) and I raise you a Sydney - eight years in the finals, flags, runners up... they develop their kids in the twos and bring them in when they're ready. They let Goodes play to 36... and yes, Brown is no star anymore (though a damn good player - he's a premiership player who played on Roo, J Brown, Pavlich, Richardson)... Sydney also had non-stars as well as stars play well into their 30s... LRT, L Barry, P Kelly, Craig Bolton, Brett Kirk....

If Austin or Goddard were up to it, no doubt they'd be in the team in lieu of Brown by now.

[takeaway]

First of all Nathan Brown is not a star player. Fair enough with Boomer or with Nick Riewoldt they got as much out of themselves as they could and I reckon both Saints and Kangas probably gave both players 1-2 more years than most other players would have got. As for Boomer playing this year and it being ' a fine line'...Wrong!!

Did you not realise that he finished at the end of 2016?

He and a lot of the senior players had already peaked. The North Melbourne Football club realised in 2016 that the team line up had performed as well as they coulld and it was highly unlikely that there'd be improvement in Boomer or Dal Santo or Petrie or Spud Firritto. They knew if they stuck with the same line up they were simply delaying the inevitable fall down the ladder and delaying getting valuable game time into their youth.

See this is where a good list management and footy department sees where a team wants to be in the future and makes these calls, rather than just focusing on the now.

Look at how Geelong and Hawthorn have 'pushed out' some players and even their stars over the last 5-6 years. Hodgey had 1-2 left in him. Ling, Stevie J, James Kelly, and others probably had 1-2 left in them. Go back and see the ages that these guys were pushed out of Geelong. They are the benchmark and we wouldn't do too badly following their lead in this area. The policy is thinking about the club first and thinking about sustained opportunities to rejuvinate and improve the list and keep up with the best teams.

I did get Boomer's retirement year wrong, but I disagree.

Firstly, Geelong eased out Johnson and Kelly and co to squeeze in Dangerfield ... their aim was absolutely nothing to do with blooding kids - it was about cap space for proven stars. They were ABSOLUTELY thinking about the NOW. I agree with you though that it was good list management - you've just misdiagnosed what they were actually doing.

As Paul Roos says over and over and over again... you can still develop players in the reserves. You call me a Geelong and Hawthorn (neither of whom have won a flag since they began their transitions, BTW) and I raise you a Sydney - eight years in the finals, flags, runners up... they develop their kids in the twos and bring them in when they're ready. They let Goodes play to 36... and yes, Brown is no star anymore (though a damn good player - he's a premiership player who played on Roo, J Brown, Pavlich, Richardson)... Sydney also had non-stars as well as stars play well into their 30s... LRT, L Barry, P Kelly, Craig Bolton, Brett Kirk....

If Austin or Goddard were up to it, no doubt they'd be in the team in lieu of Brown by now.

Agree groupie1. Austin has had some games and shown promise but needs to work on defensive skills. For most of the season Goddard has not pushed for AFL call up, but is getting better lately and may get a run by the end of the year. Brown is the best option by some way out of those 3 at the moment. So he is retained for next year at least. Claravino has just started.
North and their "oldies purge" of 2016 has been mentioned. Why did they not get rid of Scott Thompson then? Or Waite? Or Goldstein who was not going so well at the time? Because their possible replacements needed more development in the 2's and at training. Same as Saints.

[dragit]

Today is the perfect example of our poor development mentality - dogs have kicked 11 goals in two weeks, have no genuine dangerous forwards - schache kicks 1 per game, we are bottom 4… but instead of giving goddard a chance or getting more experience into a 15 game Austin, we prefer to keep pumping games into 2-kick-Brown.

[stonecold]

Today is the perfect example of our poor development mentality - dogs have kicked 11 goals in two weeks, have no genuine dangerous forwards - schache kicks 1 per game, we are bottom 4… but instead of giving goddard a chance or getting more experience into a 15 game Austin, we prefer to keep pumping games into 2-kick-Brown.

Steady on there Connieboy!!!!!

Austin is injured anyway!!!!!

[dragit]

Today is the perfect example of our poor development mentality - dogs have kicked 11 goals in two weeks, have no genuine dangerous forwards - schache kicks 1 per game, we are bottom 4… but instead of giving goddard a chance or getting more experience into a 15 game Austin, we prefer to keep pumping games into 2-kick-Brown.

Steady on there Connieboy!!!!!

Austin is injured anyway!!!!!

He's listed as available.

I bet you will be slapping backs when brown dog holds schache to 2 goals, twice his average.

[takeaway]

Today is the perfect example of our poor development mentality - dogs have kicked 11 goals in two weeks, have no genuine dangerous forwards - schache kicks 1 per game, we are bottom 4… but instead of giving goddard a chance or getting more experience into a 15 game Austin, we prefer to keep pumping games into 2-kick-Brown.

Always demeaning Browny. You forgot the handballs!

[rodgerfox]

Today is the perfect example of our poor development mentality - dogs have kicked 11 goals in two weeks, have no genuine dangerous forwards - schache kicks 1 per game, we are bottom 4… but instead of giving goddard a chance or getting more experience into a 15 game Austin, we prefer to keep pumping games into 2-kick-Brown.

The more concerning aspect is that these types of games are perfect opportunities for teams to hone their game plan.

Coaches usually keep guys in the team that do what they're instructed to do. They want them in the team instruct the guys around them how to execute the game plan.

If I had any faith at all in the game plan, I'd think that it's a great opportunity to practice it, and for the team to keep trying to perfect it. It's not always about developing players individually, but also about developing the team as a whole.
But seeing as I think our strategy is rubbish, it's clearly the time of year and type of game to give players a crack.

Dropping Gilbert is a start. As good as he's been, we just can't have too many senior guys that slaughter the pill in the team at once.

[Scollop]

First of all Nathan Brown is not a star player. Fair enough with Boomer or with Nick Riewoldt they got as much out of themselves as they could and I reckon both Saints and Kangas probably gave both players 1-2 more years than most other players would have got. As for Boomer playing this year and it being ' a fine line'...Wrong!!

Did you not realise that he finished at the end of 2016?

He and a lot of the senior players had already peaked. The North Melbourne Football club realised in 2016 that the team line up had performed as well as they coulld and it was highly unlikely that there'd be improvement in Boomer or Dal Santo or Petrie or Spud Firritto. They knew if they stuck with the same line up they were simply delaying the inevitable fall down the ladder and delaying getting valuable game time into their youth.

See this is where a good list management and footy department sees where a team wants to be in the future and makes these calls, rather than just focusing on the now.

Look at how Geelong and Hawthorn have 'pushed out' some players and even their stars over the last 5-6 years. Hodgey had 1-2 left in him. Ling, Stevie J, James Kelly, and others probably had 1-2 left in them. Go back and see the ages that these guys were pushed out of Geelong. They are the benchmark and we wouldn't do too badly following their lead in this area. The policy is thinking about the club first and thinking about sustained opportunities to rejuvinate and improve the list and keep up with the best teams.

I did get Boomer's retirement year wrong, but I disagree.

Firstly, Geelong eased out Johnson and Kelly and co to squeeze in Dangerfield ... their aim was absolutely nothing to do with blooding kids - it was about cap space for proven stars. They were ABSOLUTELY thinking about the NOW. I agree with you though that it was good list management - you've just misdiagnosed what they were actually doing.

As Paul Roos says over and over and over again... you can still develop players in the reserves. You call me a Geelong and Hawthorn (neither of whom have won a flag since they began their transitions, BTW) and I raise you a Sydney - eight years in the finals, flags, runners up... they develop their kids in the twos and bring them in when they're ready. They let Goodes play to 36... and yes, Brown is no star anymore (though a damn good player - he's a premiership player who played on Roo, J Brown, Pavlich, Richardson)... Sydney also had non-stars as well as stars play well into their 30s... LRT, L Barry, P Kelly, Craig Bolton, Brett Kirk....

If Austin or Goddard were up to it, no doubt they'd be in the team in lieu of Brown by now.

'have not won a flag since their transition started'

The Hawks transition only started after their last flag in 2015. When your team has been relevant and in the finals for around a decade and won 4 flags in that time, of course they'll have a transition period. What did you expect 5 flags in a row?

If it's good enough for a premiership winning team to transition older players, wouldn't you think a bottom of the ladder team has every right to be more ruthless and more focussed on youth? It's not just about getting games into individuals, but it's also about a group that learns to play together. The quicker the young blokes play more games in the same team the better the coherence and ability to execute game plan

Geelong's policy of easing out senior players started from 2008/2009. Long before Danger came along. This allowed them to stay relevant rather than the 2008/2009 St Kilda model of trying to recruit and play C grade recycled rejects. Right now in 2018 if the Saints cannot entice A Grade stars into the team like Fyfe or Dusty or Sloane then we surely are not serious in thinking that we will improve by recruiting senior players or out of contract B graders.

Here's where you are missing the point. St Kilda is currently at the bottom of the ladder. All the teams you mentioned were playing finals. Your Sydney comparison has nothing to do with us because Sydney retained most of their senior players because they were top 4 contenders and not just making up the numbers at the bottom of the top 8

In 2015 the Doggies also made the finals. We didn't. In 2016 they won the flag. At the end of that year - 2016 - our board and CEO and perhaps some of the playing group mistakenly thought that we were ready to be contenders. Let's be serious and work out where we are and where we'll probably be next year and in 2020. If we are going to be serious contenders, then I'm all for playing Brown in front of Goddard, Austin, White and others.

[parkeysainter]

Can we stop the verbal diahorrea? Both Brown and Phillips were good signings/extensions considering where both players are at and how they can contribute to the list in the timeframes attributed to them.

[dragit]

Can we stop the verbal diahorrea? Both Brown and Phillips were good signings/extensions considering where both players are at and how they can contribute to the list in the timeframes attributed to them.

Seems like a pretty well considered and respectful debate apart from posts like yours referencing diahorrea, if you don't like the conversation then just give it a miss instead of requesting people to stop.

[parkeysainter]

Can we stop the verbal diahorrea? Both Brown and Phillips were good signings/extensions considering where both players are at and how they can contribute to the list in the timeframes attributed to them.

Seems like a pretty well considered and respectful debate apart from posts like yours referencing diahorrea, if you don't like the conversation then just give it a miss instead of requesting people to stop.

Yep. Excellent and respectful conversation and debate. How did I miss that obvious chestnut.

[Scollop]

You might see a conversation that is critical of the club's decision making and team selection as disrespectful but that's where you should learn the difference between being a brown nose and being respectful

[parkeysainter]

You might see a conversation that is critical of the club's decision making and team selection as disrespectful but that's where you should learn the difference between being a brown nose and being respectful

No brown nosing. Both good signings by the club. I look forward to seeing Phillips and Brown being vital cogs in where they are at as footballers for the Saints list in 2019, just like they were in 2018.

[DJ Higgins]

Can we stop the verbal diahorrea? Both Brown and Phillips were good signings/extensions considering where both players are at and how they can contribute to the list in the timeframes attributed to them.

Agree. Phillips young and still getting better but has showed enough for 2 more years.
Brown is cheap as and brings a lot of experience and is a great stopper.He is holding down a spot until someone else is ready. No one is yet

[parkeysainter]

Can we stop the verbal diahorrea? Both Brown and Phillips were good signings/extensions considering where both players are at and how they can contribute to the list in the timeframes attributed to them.

Agree. Phillips young and still getting better but has showed enough for 2 more years.
Brown is cheap as and brings a lot of experience and is a great stopper.He is holding down a spot until someone else is ready. No one is yet

Agreed DJH. Good sensible post.

[dragit]

You might see a conversation that is critical of the club's decision making and team selection as disrespectful but that's where you should learn the difference between being a brown nose and being respectful

Agree with you scollop, you make a lot of sense... for a scollop.

[BenLong#21]

Logan Austin is 23 years old. He iasnt all that young.
If he isnt good enough for senior footy - why use a pick 21 on him?

[BenLong#21]

Logan Austin is 23 years old. He isnt all that young.
If he isnt good enough for senior footy - why use a pick 21 on him?

[dragit]

Oh dear.... josh schache career best game playing in a side that has one win from it's past ten matches.

#browndog200

Yay saints.

[BenLong#21]

How did Nate Brown go tonight?

Another stellar performance I see.

Is he passing his wealth of knowledge to Geary and Carlisle?

[rodgerfox]

I thought Brown was easily one of our best tonight.

[SaintPav]

I thought Brown was easily one of our best tonight.

That is not a good sign

[dragit]

I thought Brown was easily one of our best tonight.

Easily? Reported for trolling.

In which possible way?

His opponent had the best game of his career and the dogs had 29 shots on goal from 54 entries.

Was there a whole bunch of sagely leadership tutorials going on that I couldn't see?

[rodgerfox]

I thought Brown was easily one of our best tonight.

Easily? Reported for trolling.

In which possible way?

His opponent had the best game of his career and the dogs had 29 shots on goal from 54 entries.

He had 3 different opponents for the night. I think he had one goal kicked on him by his direct opponent didn't he? And that was with 5 minutes to go.


And who was better than him? Ross, and who else?

[dragit]

I thought Brown was easily one of our best tonight.

Easily? Reported for trolling.

In which possible way?

His opponent had the best game of his career and the dogs had 29 shots on goal from 54 entries.

He had 3 different opponents for the night. I think he had one goal kicked on him by his direct opponent didn't he? And that was with 5 minutes to go.


And who was better than him? Ross, and who else?

You've gotta be ducking kidding.

It will be easier to list the players who had less impact on the game than Brown did.

: Josh Battle

If brown was easily in our best then I'm sure it will bear out in the fan votes, match report, media votes, coaches awards etc... in tipping his name won't come up apart from you.

He shouldn't have played, like most of this year.