Carlton - a historical perspective

[Ape_Man]

Interestingly, Carlton have had serious trouble working out how to win since the draft came in. Where they couldn't buy premierships anymore.

They needed money under the table for 1995 and have gone nowhere since.

1999 was on the tail end of those dealings.

It's funny. Culture is uses as a dirty word in regards to St Kilda, but Carlton are a victim to theirs. Maybe even more so.

Can't draft, can't trade, can't win.

I love it.

[congorozides]

OR US WITH THEM 16 FLAGS

But do we count vfl?
I'm calling it 1-0.
And 1995 was a cheat flag.

[parkeysainter]

Interestingly, Carlton have had serious trouble working out how to win since the draft came in. Where they couldn't buy premierships anymore.

They needed money under the table for 1995 and have gone nowhere since.

1999 was on the tail end of those dealings.

It's funny. Culture is uses as a dirty word in regards to St Kilda, but Carlton are a victim to theirs. Maybe even more so.

Can't draft, can't trade, can't win.

I love it.

Exactly. You hit the nail on the head.

The Blues just used to buy flags, bend the rules and bully the VFL and AFL and other clubs back in the day. Its why they really won so many flags. Notice how the Blues haven't done alot right since the full effects of the draft and salary cap has come in?

Carlton still really don't get it. I think their fans are just starting to cotton on that you can't buy a flag anymore. Its not local footy.

John Elliot the fat arse corporate wanker crook epitomizes that culture which has destroyed their club.

[congorozides]

Winmar to Lockett.
By god they were good.
Better than good.
Also notice the state of the ovals. Mud heaps.

[Ape_Man]

Interestingly, Carlton have had serious trouble working out how to win since the draft came in. Where they couldn't buy premierships anymore.

They needed money under the table for 1995 and have gone nowhere since.

1999 was on the tail end of those dealings.

It's funny. Culture is uses as a dirty word in regards to St Kilda, but Carlton are a victim to theirs. Maybe even more so.

Can't draft, can't trade, can't win.

I love it.

Exactly. You hit the nail on the head.

The Blues just used to buy flags, bend the rules and bully the VFL and AFL and other clubs back in the day. Its why they really won so many flags. Notice how the Blues haven't done alot right since the full effects of the draft and salary cap has come in?

Carlton still really don't get it. I think their fans are just starting to cotton on that you can't buy a flag anymore. Its not local footy.

John Elliot the fat arse corporate wanker crook epitomizes that culture which has destroyed their club.

They have been the “St Kilda” of the 2000’s.

Horrible decision making, multiple coaches, first round picks and spoons.

Everything they mocked us for they have become.

[Bushman]

Carlton are like a multi generational crime family that's been forced to go straight. They now serve tables at the restaurant on Lygon St where they previously ate and plotted their crimes. They whinge, they moan they can't understand what happened, I love it.

[saynta]

Carlton are like a multi generational crime family that's been forced to go straight. They now serve tables at the restaurant on Lygon St where they previously ate and plotted their crimes. They whinge, they moan they can't understand what happened, I love it.

I had a look at their before, during and after match threads on big footy. Funniest threads I have ever read.

Real nasty bunch of wankers, but they go from pumping up a big win to wrist cutting despair.

[Beno88]

My wife is a passionate Carlton supporter.

Since we've been together St Kilda's record against Carlton is 20 wins from 26 matches (77%).

Prior to that, it was 35 wins from 193 matches (18%).

I'll be keeping her.

[loris]

My wife is a passionate Carlton supporter.

Since we've been together St Kilda's record against Carlton is 20 wins from 26 matches (77%).

Prior to that, it was 35 wins from 193 matches (18%).

I'll be keeping her.

[samuraisaint]

My wife is a passionate Carlton supporter.

Since we've been together St Kilda's record against Carlton is 20 wins from 26 matches (77%).

Prior to that, it was 35 wins from 193 matches (18%).

I'll be keeping her.

Apparently it is one of the most stunning form reversals in the entire history of professional sport.

[congorozides]

SOS on Footy Classifieds seems to blaming injuries.

Still dont understand how we gave a job to Wayne Hughes...

[saynta]

SOS on Footy Classifieds seems to blaming injuries.

Still dont understand how we gave a job to Wayne Hughes...

Notice that s*** show never once mentioned the Saints. Not once.

All arseholes on that show so don't know why SOS lowered himself appearing there.

[Scollop]

SOS was curious as to why other list managers aren't asked to appear on any other shows. He got on the front foot against a barrage from Lloyd and Wilson. A few people in media reckon he wields a lot of power but he said "I don't pick the side, I'm not part of the performance side of the footy department, and I don't attend executive meetings". He believes as list manager he shouldn't have to defend himself and defend the 'performances' of the Carlton football club. A lot of respect for SOS for the way he handled himself last night and the way he articulated why certain decisions on trades were made.

Another important thing he said was that it would be easie for a club to aim to just get into finals and aim 7th or 8th on the ladder, but that it's a lot harder to try and build a top 4 or premiership capable side'. He gave the example of all the media bashing of GWS in it's early years and how people were lauding the Gold Coast list and bagging the GWS list (GWS only won 1 game all year in their 2nd or 3rd year). Gold Coast took shortcuts, didn't build a sustainable list and are still yet to make a finals series.

[Saintly66]

Surprised SOS went back to Carlton, hated them after the salary cap saga and what happened. Just weird in a sense seeing him back there

[Scollop]

Would being at the club help his sons' careers or hinder them?

[Trev from the Bush]

As an 8 year-old, my Carlton supporter mum took me to Princess Park and the Saints won! It was 1964; Adrian Gallagher made his senior debut for the Blues.

It was the only time I ever saw us win there, having moved up country and becoming involved with local footy in 1985.

The final round, 1978 match many have mentioned was probably the finest performance Robbie Muir ever delivered for the Saints. Singularly, he had the Blues sh1tt1ng themselves and looking over their shoulders. In a team that boasted The Shadow (his final game for us) and Pup Sarau. His tackling was ferocious - the MRO would have him up on 12 or 13 charges these days.

The stand off with umpire Kevin Smith happened before a pathetically small crowd at Princes Park in 1984. Suspended for 12 week for headbutting Bruce Doull and striking Val Perovic (both could handle themselves) and abusing umpire Kevin Smith. In my view, Smith deserved everything he got - if it were to happen today the politically correct mob would do him for bullying. Perhaps, racial vilification.

Do I hate Carlton? Hate is a strong and evil word. Let's say I dislike the club intensely. As intensely as I love the Saints. Really enjoyed watching the match replay, all three times!

[Enrico_Misso]

The other part of Caaaaarton’s disgraceful history is their ability since the mid 1960s of attracting corporate criminals to their presidency.

I give you the “infamous five” ….

George “Chopstick” Harris
The original crooked president.
Imposed himself on Carlton in the mid 60s and set the tone by stealing Barassi from Melbourne.
Introduced the Bluebirds and the Carlton chopsticks.
But more significantly played a key role in bringing down the Whitlam government by attempting to arrange a massive loan (with a hefty personal commission) to cash-strapped Treasurer Jim Cairns. It led to Cairn’s sacking. Subsequently Resource Minister RFX (fabulous name – Reginald Francis Xavier!) Connor tried to raise his own loan through dodgy Pakistani shyster financier Tirath Khemlani and so started the loans affair which led to more sackings and empowered Fraser to block supply and the rest is history.

Ian “Greasy chicken ‘n” Rice
Multiple Melb Lord Mayor candidate. Headed KFC’s beginnings in Aust.
Another dodgy property investor.
Famously overthrew Harris in a fight (member vote) at Festival Hall when Harris got too self confident after the 79 flag and tried to sack his own board.
Coach Jezza supported Harris which is how a reigning premiership player-coach wound up at StK.

Ian “Bankrupt” Collins
I think I covered this self centred scumbag earlier in the thread.

John “Pigs Arse” Elliott
Dorman fancied himself as Prime Minister and as the head of BHP.
The master of the underhand deal.
He rorted and cheated his way to success in Business and in football paying hush money to cover up half a dozen rapes by Carlton players and using paper bags as his currency of choice to deliver two flags.
His racist comments towards aboriginals were legendary.
But his devious crooked ways caught up with him.
Away from footy the NCA with a team of lawyers spent years putting their case together but Elliott put together a much much larger team of smartarse (edited by Enrico) lawyers who got him off on a technicality which rendered much of the NCA’s submission inadmissible and prevented the NCA from calling over 100 witnesses. The battle raged on for 12 years or more. Elliott avoided jail time but it bankrupted him along with some bad investments in rice.
Then the AFL investigated his cheating culture and hammered Carlton with fines and lost draft picks.
He lives on as a sad chain smoking drunk with racist outdated views seemingly oblivious to any culpability.
Even the CFC had the good sense to remove his name from the grandstand which they should have renamed the Goddard Wells stand in honour of some of the draft picks they lost when some of their cheating was exposed.
The legacy of his era lives on with Caaarlton now the least successful side of the 21st century.

Richard “Cardboard” Pratt
He had some tough acts to follow but Pratt did his best to out-criminal the criminals.
Became Australia’s richest man through his dishonest cartel operations.
Enjoyed a flamboyant lifestyle, splashing money around, though he didn’t look after his mistress and lovechild in his will.
And of course his Visy Corp created the paper bags that kept Carlton running in the 80s and 90s.
He was involved with Elliott in the NCA’s investigation into the Elders foreign currency subterfuges.
The ACCC finally caught up with him in 2005 for collusion and price fixing involving almost a billion dollars.
He eventually pleaded guilty but died of prostate cancer before he could be incarcerated.


Since then they have had less extreme presidents.
Sticks “Stand by me” Kernahan was a compromise candidate with the brains of a poodle turd.
Now they’ve got a non-entity with a smorgasboard of vowels.

Perhaps the Paperbaggers have finally learnt their lesson, or do they still believe they can buy their way back?

[parkeysainter]

Carlton and its crooks that used to run the joint have covered up alot of stuff over the years. We will never hear about in our lifetime though. Some really bad stuff too.

[Gordo']

soft&*@#k drummer bouys, the whole flowering lot of them, ffs!!!

[Enrico_Misso]

Then there is the player that personifies Caaaaaarlton - Big Nick.

A criminal.
As a young VFL player he did 3 months in jail in 1960 for misappropriating 4,000 pounds amid rumours the club had used their "influence" to avoid more charges.
He was a stager (ask Neville Crowe)
He went on to coach Carlton but resigned in mysterious circumstances just before the 76 season started that had something to do with a hand and a till.
In the 80s he faced 24 charges for writing fake cheques and was fined almost $3,000.
Then there was his electronics business where someone broke in and stole a heap of his insured TVs - but they surprisingly turned up in a friend's (brother's?) warehouse.

Yes, Big Nick - Caaaaaaarlton to a tee.

[The Fireman]

Thanks for those interesting stats. My late Dad followed the Blues but I chose the Saints. I used to go to Blues games with Dad in '60s and I'd alsways look forward to the Saints clash ... and we always lost! Although I do recall a wet day at Moorabbin when McMaster-Smith (from memory) kicked a late goal and we won. But this once might club that dominated from late '60s to the '80s is now a long time from glory. By the way Samurai Saint ... if you have chosen your nickname to honour my favourite show as a kid 'The Samurai' then I salute you. In 1966 the Saints reigned in football - and Shintaro reigned on TV.

.. with his trusty sidekick, Tombei the Mist !

I LOVE this thread. For oldies like me, Carlton is THE hated enemy. Arrogance personified. Some of my favourite wins are against them. One day at Waverley when George Young kicked 7 in the rain; Lockett kicking 10.7 on SOS at Moorabbin including the winner in 89; his 13 at Waverley; the breakthrough win at PP in 93; the day Fev played full back on GTrain ( and was hilariously poor ) .

So yes we played a crap team last night, and yes we have a long way to go. But stuff it, we smashed Carlton.. a beautiful thing !

same here.dad was carlton and did you get the samurai bubble gum cards ?