McCartin

[Con Gorozidis]

Oh dear god.

There is being positive.

And then there is just being plain ridiculous.

[Saintmatt]

Just to throw another spanned in the works, Petracca got 29 touches this weekend!

Against a very poor Freo with there best two players out. They were thrashed by Brisbane last week at home.

I would take that performance any day right now from one of our early draft picks. Oh but hang on, Billings got a ton of possessions against a depleted Frankston in the VFL a few weeks ago so he is better.

Billings has Petracca covered in most career stats so far. oh but hang on, he's a saints player so lets find a reason to barrack for a bloke from another team. i dont know whether Petracca will be a good player or not but right now he is well behind Degoey and Brayshaw in the same draft year . So by mentioning Petracca having 29 posessions, i assume the inference is we should have taken him. If we did, we would be lamenting we didnt get Brayshaw or Degoey.

Spot on.

[Saintmatt]

Granted that Paddy is not playing to the standard we expected, and the same goes for Billings, you can probably include Acres and Dunstan as well. Fact is that St Kilda don't have the talent in the coaching ranks to develop young players, especially early draft picks, to reach their potential as quickly (if ever) as do other clubs - Geelong, Hawthorn especially.

St Kilda has 2 senior coaching positions filled by blokes who have never played AFL at the elite level:

Director of Coaching and Development Danny Sexton - drafted by North Melbourne in 1990 but never made the senior team before retiring and starting on a coaching career at junior levels, working his way up until employed by the Saints as a Development Coach in 2006.

Senior Assistant Coach Simon PcPhee - played in lower comps in WA, never actually drafted by an AFL club; brought to the Saints by Scott Watters in 2011 in a player development role.

Is it any wonder that St Kilda have never in that time managed to bring the best out of the young blokes drafted into the team - how long did it take Seb Ross to reach his potential - years!!

My point is that young players are hardly going to respect their coaches if the coaches themselves have never made it into the big time - what would Sexton and McPhee know about playing elite level AFL....they might have gained all of the coaching qualifications in the world, but it means bugger all if you haven't experienced footy at the coal face.

I am totally opposed to any suggestions that McCartin and Billings should be traded away - instead, let's clear out the coaching staff and bring in some proven and experienced coaches to assist Richo, former AFL players who can impart their personal experiences on to the young Saints and develop their potential the way the top teams do.

I'll be really disappointed if, following the current review by Simon Lethlean, both Sexton and McPhee remain at St Kilda.

Sure Simon McPhee didn’t play AFL, but he was a talented ball magnet with A Grade Amateur team Wembley. He was appointed player coach and took them to a couple of grand finals before being head-hunted to Claremont in the WAFL as colts’ coach. He won several premierships with them them before appointed coach of the firsts and hauled them up from the bottom of the ladder to premiership material. He has a proven record in player development which is what Watters recruited him to do. He is gifted communicator who should have been allowed to continue in the role he was originally employed at the Saints to do.

Dear God - did you read what you typed? "He has a proven record in player development". What?!?!?!?!? Perhaps at WAFL level but FFS - you cannot honestly hand-on-heart claim that he has a similar record at AFL level.

The development of our players has been deplorable. From our shambolic relationships with Casey and Sandringham to the Sexton/Searle/McPhee development managers - we've effectively kicked ourselves in the nuts.

Either we've drafted some supremely unskilled footballers or, we've manifestly failed to address those players' skill deficiencies.

[DJ Higgins]

Billings has Petracca covered in most career stats so far. oh but hang on, he's a saints player so lets find a reason to barrack for a bloke from another team. i dont know whether Petracca will be a good player or not but right now he is well behind Degoey and Brayshaw in the same draft year . So by mentioning Petracca having 29 posessions, i assume the inference is we should have taken him. If we did, we would be lamenting we didnt get Brayshaw or Degoey.
[/quote]

Why are you comparing Billings and Petracca, they were in different drafts weren't they. I.e Bilings over Bont and Paddy over Petracca.

Footy is a funny thing and just because one player is doing poorly at one club doesn't mean he wouldn't shine at another and vice versa. If we took Petracca who knows how good he would be. Don't forget he got hurt at training and didn't play for the first year. But based on current form most would take Petracca over Paddy as Paddy isn't delivering up to his potential. But very few are so it is more a coaching issue for me.

Our diabetes experiment will last for 2 more years which will mirror the coaches. All I can hope is that this time next year Paddy makes it clear what we should do with him. I hope he improves greatly but I have no real foundation to base this on. He isn't quick, a good mark, a good kick, an endurance beast, a great leaper. If he is still under performing then then he needs to go or his role changes or he is played up back but we cant just keep trotting out the same crap week after week after week and making excuses for it not working.

[rodgerfox]

He isn't quick, a good mark, a good kick, an endurance beast, a great leaper. If he is still under performing then then he needs to go or his role changes or he is played up back but we cant just keep trotting out the same crap week after week after week and making excuses for it not working.

I think he is a very good mark.

But he's coached badly in that regard in my opinion. The 'role' he plays of making a contest and bringing the ball to the front instead of marking it, has crippled his natural marking ability in my opinion.

[Cairnsman]

Recently watched the Justin Leppitsch interview on Open Mike and I found interesting the story about how the Saints made a huge attempt to recruit him, apparently the club offered him $2 million over 3 years in 2000. It would have been 15% of the cap and he would have been the highest paid player in the AFL. However he ultimately turned down the offer citing the quality of players at St Kilda at the time that would of been around him in defence weren't of the same quality developing on the Lions list. He felt his skills and style of play needed quality players to support him so he could play to his strengths. He was concerned there would be condisersble resentment towards him if he didn't deliver value commensurate with the big price tag.

I hadn't heard that yarn before. Anyway I think it's why we shouldn't be too hard on Paddy, if we are being fair minded he hasnt had the right support around him on the field and I maintain a lot of the reason is due to the injuries we've had this season and not being able to develop as a group on game day. Arguably the Melbourne victory is exhibit A where we got a glimpse of how well our key forwards go when they get a bit of chemistry going and this ultimately is what will help Paddy's game.

[Con Gorozidis]

Riewoldt was a tall skinny aerobic athletic freak and a trainaholic built for the modern game.

Any comparisons with Paddy are ludicrous. Besides the draft pick number.

The accurate comparison to Roo on field is Charlie Curnow.

[Scollop]

Recently watched the Justin Leppitsch interview on Open Mike and I found interesting the story about how the Saints made a huge attempt to recruit him, apparently the club offered him $2 million over 3 years in 2000. It would have been 15% of the cap and he would have been the highest paid player in the AFL. However he ultimately turned down the offer citing the quality of players at St Kilda at the time that would of been around him in defence weren't of the same quality developing on the Lions list. He felt his skills and style of play needed quality players to support him so he could play to his strengths. He was concerned there would be condisersble resentment towards him if he didn't deliver value commensurate with the big price tag.

I hadn't heard that yarn before. Anyway I think it's why we shouldn't be too hard on Paddy, if we are being fair minded he hasnt had the right support around him on the field and I maintain a lot of the reason is due to the injuries we've had this season and not being able to develop as a group on game day. Arguably the Melbourne victory is exhibit A where we got a glimpse of how well our key forwards go when they get a bit of chemistry going and this ultimately is what will help Paddy's game.

Do you know the main reason he couldn't break into the seniors...BEFORE he had his concussion injuries last year? Do you recall why he didn't play in round 1 in 2017? It was his fitness.

The above is just Excuses, Excuses, Excuses!! It was all within his control and he simply did not do enough!!

Paddy finally realsied around the middle of last year that his AFL playing days could be finished before he even had a chance to show what sort of player he could develop into. He needs to keep working on his fitess and be conscious of everything he does in his everyday life so that he can fulfil his ambition to be a successful AFL footballer.

He has a lot of work to do

[takeaway]

Recently watched the Justin Leppitsch interview on Open Mike and I found interesting the story about how the Saints made a huge attempt to recruit him, apparently the club offered him $2 million over 3 years in 2000. It would have been 15% of the cap and he would have been the highest paid player in the AFL. However he ultimately turned down the offer citing the quality of players at St Kilda at the time that would of been around him in defence weren't of the same quality developing on the Lions list. He felt his skills and style of play needed quality players to support him so he could play to his strengths. He was concerned there would be condisersble resentment towards him if he didn't deliver value commensurate with the big price tag.

I hadn't heard that yarn before. Anyway I think it's why we shouldn't be too hard on Paddy, if we are being fair minded he hasnt had the right support around him on the field and I maintain a lot of the reason is due to the injuries we've had this season and not being able to develop as a group on game day. Arguably the Melbourne victory is exhibit A where we got a glimpse of how well our key forwards go when they get a bit of chemistry going and this ultimately is what will help Paddy's game.

Do you know the main reason he couldn't break into the seniors...BEFORE he had his concussion injuries last year? Do you recall why he didn't play in round 1 in 2017? It was his fitness.

The above is just Excuses, Excuses, Excuses!! It was all within his control and he simply did not do enough!!

Paddy finally realsied around the middle of last year that his AFL playing days could be finished before he even had a chance to show what sort of player he could develop into. He needs to keep working on his fitess and be conscious of everything he does in his everyday life so that he can fulfil his ambition to be a successful AFL footballer.

He has a lot of work to do

Must have got fit pretty fast, because he was in for Round 2, 2017. I seem to recall he had an interrupted pre season before 2017.

[Cairnsman]

Recently watched the Justin Leppitsch interview on Open Mike and I found interesting the story about how the Saints made a huge attempt to recruit him, apparently the club offered him $2 million over 3 years in 2000. It would have been 15% of the cap and he would have been the highest paid player in the AFL. However he ultimately turned down the offer citing the quality of players at St Kilda at the time that would of been around him in defence weren't of the same quality developing on the Lions list. He felt his skills and style of play needed quality players to support him so he could play to his strengths. He was concerned there would be condisersble resentment towards him if he didn't deliver value commensurate with the big price tag.

I hadn't heard that yarn before. Anyway I think it's why we shouldn't be too hard on Paddy, if we are being fair minded he hasnt had the right support around him on the field and I maintain a lot of the reason is due to the injuries we've had this season and not being able to develop as a group on game day. Arguably the Melbourne victory is exhibit A where we got a glimpse of how well our key forwards go when they get a bit of chemistry going and this ultimately is what will help Paddy's game.

Do you know the main reason he couldn't break into the seniors...BEFORE he had his concussion injuries last year? Do you recall why he didn't play in round 1 in 2017? It was his fitness.

The above is just Excuses, Excuses, Excuses!! It was all within his control and he simply did not do enough!!

Paddy finally realsied around the middle of last year that his AFL playing days could be finished before he even had a chance to show what sort of player he could develop into. He needs to keep working on his fitess and be conscious of everything he does in his everyday life so that he can fulfil his ambition to be a successful AFL footballer.

He has a lot of work to do

Absolutely he has work to do, however to add to the point of my Leppitsch reference, Paddy is in a team that is young and developing and has been cruelled by injuries this year so he is learning his craft in a team where he isn't afforded the luxury of being the 2nd, 3rd or 4th banana in the forward line, or the luxury of quality delivery, suffice for the Melbourne victory where he was in a forward line that had multiple options and the ball was coming into the forwards at pace and with quality, he really is having to establish himself and learn his craft the hard way. Leppitcsh was essentially asserting it's much more challenging being number 1 banana in a club that is rebuilding at the bottom of the ladder.

Patients is needed IMO. The Melbourne victory and the way Paddy and the team played in that game is a glimpse of what we have to look forward to when we get all of the players free from injury and stringing games together.

[Scollop]

Recently watched the Justin Leppitsch interview on Open Mike and I found interesting the story about how the Saints made a huge attempt to recruit him, apparently the club offered him $2 million over 3 years in 2000. It would have been 15% of the cap and he would have been the highest paid player in the AFL. However he ultimately turned down the offer citing the quality of players at St Kilda at the time that would of been around him in defence weren't of the same quality developing on the Lions list. He felt his skills and style of play needed quality players to support him so he could play to his strengths. He was concerned there would be condisersble resentment towards him if he didn't deliver value commensurate with the big price tag.

I hadn't heard that yarn before. Anyway I think it's why we shouldn't be too hard on Paddy, if we are being fair minded he hasnt had the right support around him on the field and I maintain a lot of the reason is due to the injuries we've had this season and not being able to develop as a group on game day. Arguably the Melbourne victory is exhibit A where we got a glimpse of how well our key forwards go when they get a bit of chemistry going and this ultimately is what will help Paddy's game.

Do you know the main reason he couldn't break into the seniors...BEFORE he had his concussion injuries last year? Do you recall why he didn't play in round 1 in 2017? It was his fitness.

The above is just Excuses, Excuses, Excuses!! It was all within his control and he simply did not do enough!!

Paddy finally realsied around the middle of last year that his AFL playing days could be finished before he even had a chance to show what sort of player he could develop into. He needs to keep working on his fitess and be conscious of everything he does in his everyday life so that he can fulfil his ambition to be a successful AFL footballer.

He has a lot of work to do

Must have got fit pretty fast, because he was in for Round 2, 2017. I seem to recall he had an interrupted pre season before 2017.

Forget about your spin on things and just have a look at how his body shape changed towards the end of last year. I think Paddy knew that he had to substantially increase his running. Here's how last year played out;

Paddy was ruled out with hamstring tightness in round 1 and yet he played for Sandrigham. They weren't about to say in public that he isn't fit enough to play seniors and totally embarrass him. Rooy got injured round 1 against Melbourne and that's the ONLY reason that Paddy got a game in Round 2 (not because he earnt a recall by smashing it in the twos). ...Richo thought that we were finals bound and he played Roo at FF at less than 50% fitness and he dropped McCartin. Remember 2016 where Roo was playing centre and Richo gave McCartin several opportunities? That's where the coaching panel worked out - as did everyone - that Paddy was no where near AFL fit

[ace]

No doubt he was poor; but I’ve never seen a forward able to kick bags when the only delivery he gets are munged helicopters, hospital passes, grubbers or 15m either side of him.

I have, but he was the greatest player I’ve ever seen.

I saw him too, you would go to game expecting to lose but it did not matter. HE was playing.

[takeaway]

Recently watched the Justin Leppitsch interview on Open Mike and I found interesting the story about how the Saints made a huge attempt to recruit him, apparently the club offered him $2 million over 3 years in 2000. It would have been 15% of the cap and he would have been the highest paid player in the AFL. However he ultimately turned down the offer citing the quality of players at St Kilda at the time that would of been around him in defence weren't of the same quality developing on the Lions list. He felt his skills and style of play needed quality players to support him so he could play to his strengths. He was concerned there would be condisersble resentment towards him if he didn't deliver value commensurate with the big price tag.

I hadn't heard that yarn before. Anyway I think it's why we shouldn't be too hard on Paddy, if we are being fair minded he hasnt had the right support around him on the field and I maintain a lot of the reason is due to the injuries we've had this season and not being able to develop as a group on game day. Arguably the Melbourne victory is exhibit A where we got a glimpse of how well our key forwards go when they get a bit of chemistry going and this ultimately is what will help Paddy's game.

Do you know the main reason he couldn't break into the seniors...BEFORE he had his concussion injuries last year? Do you recall why he didn't play in round 1 in 2017? It was his fitness.

The above is just Excuses, Excuses, Excuses!! It was all within his control and he simply did not do enough!!

Paddy finally realsied around the middle of last year that his AFL playing days could be finished before he even had a chance to show what sort of player he could develop into. He needs to keep working on his fitess and be conscious of everything he does in his everyday life so that he can fulfil his ambition to be a successful AFL footballer.

He has a lot of work to do

Must have got fit pretty fast, because he was in for Round 2, 2017. I seem to recall he had an interrupted pre season before 2017.

Forget about your spin on things and just have a look at how his body shape changed towards the end of last year. I think Paddy knew that he had to substantially increase his running. Here's how last year played out;

Paddy was ruled out with hamstring tightness in round 1 and yet he played for Sandrigham. They weren't about to say in public that he isn't fit enough to play seniors and totally embarrass him. Rooy got injured round 1 against Melbourne and that's the ONLY reason that Paddy got a game in Round 2 (not because he earnt a recall by smashing it in the twos). ...Richo thought that we were finals bound and he played Roo at FF at less than 50% fitness and he dropped McCartin. Remember 2016 where Roo was playing centre and Richo gave McCartin several opportunities? That's where the coaching panel worked out - as did everyone - that Paddy was no where near AFL fit

He has certainly got fitter over time as most young players do. Nice story - you certainly have good insights or imagination.

[Ape_Man]

No doubt he was poor; but I’ve never seen a forward able to kick bags when the only delivery he gets are munged helicopters, hospital passes, grubbers or 15m either side of him.

I have, but he was the greatest player I’ve ever seen.

I saw him too, you would go to game expecting to lose but it did not matter. HE was playing.

It may have been childish optimism, but I always thought we were a chance if Plugger was playing.

Carlton, Round 2 1989 taught me anything was possible. The next 7 had me quivering. Bloody Guy McKenna.

I love to point out to my Carlton mates that Plugger averaged nearly 7 on the full back of the century.

[Scollop]

He has certainly got fitter over time as most young players do. Nice story - you certainly have good insights or imagination.

You certainly like to patronise people that don't agree with you don't you...and spin pipedreams about players to support the decisions made by the footy club. And tell me where factually I have made up a story. You can't because what I wrote about happened.

"Yeah nah Paddy's gonna be a beauty" I've been hearing this from the coach and we are keen to see some evidence

When Paddy kicks 5 or 6 ( whether it's in a winning team or not ) or when he rips it up and plays at least 80% game time I'll be ecstatic

[takeaway]

He has certainly got fitter over time as most young players do. Nice story - you certainly have good insights or imagination.

You certainly like to patronise people that don't agree with you don't you...and spin pipedreams about players to support the decisions made by the footy club. And tell me where factually I have made up a story. You can't because what I wrote about happened.

"Yeah nah Paddy's gonna be a beauty" I've been hearing this from the coach and we are keen to see some evidence

When Paddy kicks 5 or 6 ( whether it's in a winning team or not ) or when he rips it up and plays at least 80% game time I'll be ecstatic

"Paddy was ruled out with hamstring tightness in round 1 and yet he played for Sandrigham. They weren't about to say in public that he isn't fit enough to play seniors and totally embarrass him. Rooy got injured round 1 against Melbourne and that's the ONLY reason that Paddy got a game in Round 2 (not because he earnt a recall by smashing it in the twos). ...Richo thought that we were finals bound and he played Roo at FF at less than 50% fitness and he dropped McCartin. Remember 2016 where Roo was playing centre and Richo gave McCartin several opportunities? That's where the coaching panel worked out - as did everyone - that Paddy was no where near AFL fit"

Your first sentence I believe is factually what happened. The rest is your take on what occurred, unless you sit in the inner sanctum of the club. Fine to have an opinion, but you tend to make statements as actual facts, whereas you would actually have no idea. You need evidence to back your stories to make them credible, or include some IMOs.

Spin pipedreams? Give me evidence.

[Con Gorozidis]

He's gonna be a ripper. Elite.
Don't you worry.....
Just wait until he strings a few games together.........

[saint64]

No doubt he was poor; but I’ve never seen a forward able to kick bags when the only delivery he gets are munged helicopters, hospital passes, grubbers or 15m either side of him.

I have, but he was the greatest player I’ve ever seen.

I saw him too, you would go to game expecting to lose but it did not matter. HE was playing.

It may have been childish optimism, but I always thought we were a chance if Plugger was playing.

Carlton, Round 2 1989 taught me anything was possible. The next 7 had me quivering. Bloody Guy McKenna.

I love to point out to my Carlton mates that Plugger averaged nearly 7 on the full back of the century.

What a game that was in 1989. There was some vague theory in the late 80s by some supporters of other clubs (Essendon supporters?) that Plugger wasn’t as good against the better defences/full backs. He completely obliterated that theory that day.

[parkeysainter]

Paddy is slowly building his game and tank. He is still very young for a big fella and will get better - especially after 50-75 games. Stop comparing him to Riewoldt and other forwards too. Its pointless and unfair.

The modern game doesn't help how Paddy plays either. I would hate to be a key forward with all the congestion going on each week.

[Scollop]

The modern game doesn't help how Paddy plays either.

He better adapt quicksmart then hadn't he. You also mention he is 'slowly' building a tank....Wrong strategy. He has to quickly build his overall fitness and quickly learn to be more agile. At the end of this year his 4 year apprenticeship is up

[Con Gorozidis]

Season.

[Con Gorozidis]

Paddy is slowly building his game and tank. He is still very young for a big fella and will get better - especially after 50-75 games. Stop comparing him to Riewoldt and other forwards too. Its pointless and unfair.

The modern game doesn't help how Paddy plays either. I would hate to be a key forward with all the congestion going on each week.

He is two years older than Hipwood. 7cm shorter and has 50 less goals.

And don't tell me Hipwood gets silver service.

[parkeysainter]

Probably out for year. Confirmed.

[Con Gorozidis]

Don't worry.
Come February and Paddy will be elite and a star of the comp.
He seems to peak in February.

[parkeysainter]

Don't worry.
Come February and Paddy will be elite and a star of the comp.
He seems to peak in February.

You are a sad individual. Instead of potting a 22 year old kid that might miss the rest of the year again, why not support him as a Saints fan? It will make you feel like a better person.

Good luck to Paddy anyway. You will be back mate.