McCartin

[samuraisaint]

It's a real problem when I still see guys bombing it long to Paddy in a three on one situation, and even then not even kicking it to his advantage. What is the poor guy meant to do? Players that do that need to be dropped.

[repta]

Frame this post ... as it will be the first of mine to defend Paddy.

Plugger wouldnt have done better on Saturday. With our lack of run and indirect way we managed to move the ball in McCartins general direction he was battling 3 on 1. Not sure what else he could have done.
When you are getting banged and bumped by several oponents all day and you arent playing well it is easy to get frustrated. Thought that he was good against Melbourne. He has a lot still to improve consistency high on that list. But getting better. And getting fitter .....one day he might be able to pick the ball up off the deck .... better stop now before I turn against him again ....

[DJ Higgins]

McCartin to replaced this Friday as he has a sprained foot. Not from kicking goals I should add

[CURLY]

Amazing how everyone took pot shots at him for his game.

[Mr Magic]

McCartin to replaced this Friday as he has a sprained foot. Not from kicking goals I should add

Is that the result of the injury he suffered in the first quarter?

[DJ Higgins]

McCartin to replaced this Friday as he has a sprained foot. Not from kicking goals I should add

Is that the result of the injury he suffered in the first quarter?

I believe so. Minor sprain according to saints website. Marshall I am hoping takes his place

[Crossy66]

Just to throw another spanned in the works, Petracca got 29 touches this weekend!

Against a very poor Freo with there best two players out. They were thrashed by Brisbane last week at home.

I would take that performance any day right now from one of our early draft picks. Oh but hang on, Billings got a ton of possessions against a depleted Frankston in the VFL a few weeks ago so he is better.

Billings has Petracca covered in most career stats so far. oh but hang on, he's a saints player so lets find a reason to barrack for a bloke from another team. i dont know whether Petracca will be a good player or not but right now he is well behind Degoey and Brayshaw in the same draft year . So by mentioning Petracca having 29 posessions, i assume the inference is we should have taken him. If we did, we would be lamenting we didnt get Brayshaw or Degoey.

[parkeysainter]

Amazing how everyone took pot shots at him for his game.

Very well said. Paddy was obviously under duress for most the game but stuck it out as we needed a key forward. The Paddy bashers will ignore this of course.

[degruch]

Amazing how everyone took pot shots at him for his game.

Very well said. Paddy was obviously under duress for most the game but stuck it out as we needed a key forward. The Paddy bashers will ignore this of course.

Any chance the same punters were lauding his improvement only last week, before leaping off the wagon 6 days later? That wouldn't be like a football forum at all.

[groupie1]

Umpires.
Injuries.

Someone at the Saints must have killed a Chinaman hey curls? All this rotten luck over the last 100 years.

This is where I question our ability to develop players.

We just can’t have picked the wrong players every single time.

Ya know, Dunstan, Acres, D-Mac, Clark & Coff, Gresh.... Goddard, Billings and McCartin - one MIGHT argue - were bad picks. But I don't know our recruiting strike rate is all that bad. Worst thing we did was trade away 2018 picks for 2017 picks - that is f****** retarded

[To the top]

There are a number of players the spotlight should correctly be on before Mc Cartin

But it appears they are beyond critical appraisal

If we line up against Carlton with just the one key forward we will be in similar circumstances as we were last week

We obviously need Carlisle in defence so a dilemma

The case for Hickey who can push forward mounts

Goddard?

But playing where?

[Cairnsman]

Sheez! Our boys just can't win a break at all this year.

Injuries are killing us.

From adversity comes opportunity.

Roll up the sleeves and get on with it.

What else can you do in these circumstances.

What doesn't kill you makes stronger.

[The Fireman]

Sheez! Our boys just can't win a break at all this year.

Injuries are killing us.

and a lack of skill

[stkfc1]

Frame this post ... as it will be the first of mine to defend Paddy.

Plugger wouldnt have done better on Saturday. With our lack of run and indirect way we managed to move the ball in McCartins general direction he was battling 3 on 1. Not sure what else he could have done.
When you are getting banged and bumped by several oponents all day and you arent playing well it is easy to get frustrated. Thought that he was good against Melbourne. He has a lot still to improve consistency high on that list. But getting better. And getting fitter .....one day he might be able to pick the ball up off the deck .... better stop now before I turn against him again ....

Was battling 2 to 3 opponents all day and the ball was being kicked either over his head or at his feet. All the while battling a sore ankle so it seems. It's a shame he's out this week as he would have definitely bagged a few. If Paddy was playing at Richmond we'd all be cursing him and wishing we had a forward like that. The problem (for a long time now) is up the ground. We get the delivery right and Paddy will look every inch a number 1 draft pick.

[saintkev]

Granted that Paddy is not playing to the standard we expected, and the same goes for Billings, you can probably include Acres and Dunstan as well. Fact is that St Kilda don't have the talent in the coaching ranks to develop young players, especially early draft picks, to reach their potential as quickly (if ever) as do other clubs - Geelong, Hawthorn especially.

St Kilda has 2 senior coaching positions filled by blokes who have never played AFL at the elite level:

Director of Coaching and Development Danny Sexton - drafted by North Melbourne in 1990 but never made the senior team before retiring and starting on a coaching career at junior levels, working his way up until employed by the Saints as a Development Coach in 2006.

Senior Assistant Coach Simon PcPhee - played in lower comps in WA, never actually drafted by an AFL club; brought to the Saints by Scott Watters in 2011 in a player development role.

Is it any wonder that St Kilda have never in that time managed to bring the best out of the young blokes drafted into the team - how long did it take Seb Ross to reach his potential - years!!

My point is that young players are hardly going to respect their coaches if the coaches themselves have never made it into the big time - what would Sexton and McPhee know about playing elite level AFL....they might have gained all of the coaching qualifications in the world, but it means bugger all if you haven't experienced footy at the coal face.

I am totally opposed to any suggestions that McCartin and Billings should be traded away - instead, let's clear out the coaching staff and bring in some proven and experienced coaches to assist Richo, former AFL players who can impart their personal experiences on to the young Saints and develop their potential the way the top teams do.

I'll be really disappointed if, following the current review by Simon Lethlean, both Sexton and McPhee remain at St Kilda.

Sure Simon McPhee didn’t play AFL, but he was a talented ball magnet with A Grade Amateur team Wembley. He was appointed player coach and took them to a couple of grand finals before being head-hunted to Claremont in the WAFL as colts’ coach. He won several premierships with them them before appointed coach of the firsts and hauled them up from the bottom of the ladder to premiership material. He has a proven record in player development which is what Watters recruited him to do. He is gifted communicator who should have been allowed to continue in the role he was originally employed at the Saints to do.

[Leo.J]

At 35 games Rooey had kicked 30 goals. Given a couple early were down back.

His first bag was Stewie Loewe’s last game when he kicked 6. Which was around about game 28.

Roo played alongside Stewie (for his first 28), G Train, Sammy Hamel, which meant he would get at least the 3rd tall defender on him. There were no zones, most of his first 35 games he was one out with his opponent. And we lost most of those games.

Roo missed only 1 game of his first 35. Paddy has missed many his best effort has been 7 in a row this year.

In the early 2000’s key forwards were kicking a hundred in a season, Lloyd in 01, and G Train in 04, which was when Rooey also had his break out season (he’d been pretty good before then) and we made the prelim. From memory his 50th was rd.1 2004.

In 2018 we’re probably looking at around 60 to win the Coleman this year, so it seems far harder for key forwards to kick goals in the modern era. Especially for a key fwd with 35 games under his belt in a bottom 4 side.

Imo we’re expecting far too much from a kid of Paddy’s experience... once he’s 50+ games we can get a better idea of where he’s at.

[Jacks Back]

Frame this post ... as it will be the first of mine to defend Paddy.

Plugger wouldnt have done better on Saturday. With our lack of run and indirect way we managed to move the ball in McCartins general direction he was battling 3 on 1. Not sure what else he could have done.
When you are getting banged and bumped by several oponents all day and you arent playing well it is easy to get frustrated. Thought that he was good against Melbourne. He has a lot still to improve consistency high on that list. But getting better. And getting fitter .....one day he might be able to pick the ball up off the deck .... better stop now before I turn against him again ....

Was battling 2 to 3 opponents all day and the ball was being kicked either over his head or at his feet. All the while battling a sore ankle so it seems. It's a shame he's out this week as he would have definitely bagged a few. If Paddy was playing at Richmond we'd all be cursing him and wishing we had a forward like that. The problem (for a long time now) is up the ground. We get the delivery right and Paddy will look every inch a number 1 draft pick.

Sore ankle/shmankle. He is just not a good number one pick. He can't kick straight, has no endurance, thinks the ball is a hot potato (can't take a one grab mark) and he's not going to get any better at the Saints. Some other club may be able to get a bit more out of him but I don't think we can. Let's face it, if he wasn't a top 1 draft pick he would be consigned in the reserves like Goddard.

[saynta]

"LUCKLESS St Kilda forward Paddy McCartin is expected to miss about three games as he deals with a low-grade left foot sprain, but he could be sidelined for longer.

McCartin was hurt four minutes into last Saturday's loss to Port Adelaide but played out the match, collecting six disposals and booting two behinds.

It is a similar injury to the one he suffered during the pre-season, albeit less severe and to his other foot.'

[freely]

Was battling 2 to 3 opponents all day and the ball was being kicked either over his head or at his feet. All the while battling a sore ankle so it seems. It's a shame he's out this week as he would have definitely bagged a few. If Paddy was playing at Richmond we'd all be cursing him and wishing we had a forward like that. The problem (for a long time now) is up the ground. We get the delivery right and Paddy will look every inch a number 1 draft pick.

Can't understand how it played out last week. Against Melbourne, it appeared paddy drew 3 opponents leaving 2 other forwards free - and we went to them. a plan, hooray! but then against port, paddy drew 3 opponents - and we went to Paddy. Can someone explain what I'm missing?

[parkeysainter]

Brave effort by Paddy considering he got injured so early in the piece. He would have doubled his output if his ankle injury didn't occur.

[samuraisaint]

Was battling 2 to 3 opponents all day and the ball was being kicked either over his head or at his feet. All the while battling a sore ankle so it seems. It's a shame he's out this week as he would have definitely bagged a few. If Paddy was playing at Richmond we'd all be cursing him and wishing we had a forward like that. The problem (for a long time now) is up the ground. We get the delivery right and Paddy will look every inch a number 1 draft pick.

Can't understand how it played out last week. Against Melbourne, it appeared paddy drew 3 opponents leaving 2 other forwards free - and we went to them. a plan, hooray! but then against port, paddy drew 3 opponents - and we went to Paddy. Can someone explain what I'm missing?

Because Josh Battle played against Melbourne, and he didn't against Port. He is going to be a big loss, especially without Bruce and McCartin for the next month.
We really need Membrey to stand tall - literally.

[chico2001]

[quote=

Imo we’re expecting far too much from a kid of Paddy’s experience... once he’s 50+ games we can get a better idea of where he’s at.
[/quote]

He has played 35 games. A dual problem in that he does not seem to have the skill set to occupy the key forward post at this stage and that he does not have another big man playing along side him who can take some of the pressure off him ala Bruce who was unfortunately injured. Even if you are outnumbered, at that level you would expect a key forward to kick one or two. The loss of Bruce really hurts and the ruckmen the saints have do not contribute in any way around the goal area, I dont think they know how to even guard space or block for him.


This is how paddy is described in the saints website

"A high flying, strong marking, straight kicking key forward, McCartin was taken with pick No. 1 in the 2014 National Draft."

They need to lay off the blurb, have a rethink and try and bring him back via the magoos after his injury heals, you would like to see him kick 5/6 in the 2nds to get some confidence. Bruce wont be back this year so the forward line is going to be very thin. Put Carlisle in the forward line for a few weeks.

[Con Gorozidis]

At 35 games Rooey had kicked 30 goals. Given a couple early were down back.

His first bag was Stewie Loewe’s last game when he kicked 6. Which was around about game 28.

Roo played alongside Stewie (for his first 28), G Train, Sammy Hamel, which meant he would get at least the 3rd tall defender on him. There were no zones, most of his first 35 games he was one out with his opponent. And we lost most of those games.

Roo missed only 1 game of his first 35. Paddy has missed many his best effort has been 7 in a row this year.

In the early 2000’s key forwards were kicking a hundred in a season, Lloyd in 01, and G Train in 04, which was when Rooey also had his break out season (he’d been pretty good before then) and we made the prelim. From memory his 50th was rd.1 2004.

In 2018 we’re probably looking at around 60 to win the Coleman this year, so it seems far harder for key forwards to kick goals in the modern era. Especially for a key fwd with 35 games under his belt in a bottom 4 side.

Imo we’re expecting far too much from a kid of Paddy’s experience... once he’s 50+ games we can get a better idea of where he’s at.

Roo kicked 61 goals in is 4th season.
He was 21 years old.

In his 2nd season he played a lot at half back and won the rising star award.

https://www.theage.com.au/articles/2002 ... 19632.html

Roo was getting 15 disposals and 8 marks per game.

So yeah. Nah.

[rodgerfox]

Roo had Gehrig and Hamill standing next to him.

[Leo.J]

At 35 games Rooey had kicked 30 goals. Given a couple early were down back.

His first bag was Stewie Loewe’s last game when he kicked 6. Which was around about game 28.

Roo played alongside Stewie (for his first 28), G Train, Sammy Hamel, which meant he would get at least the 3rd tall defender on him. There were no zones, most of his first 35 games he was one out with his opponent. And we lost most of those games.

Roo missed only 1 game of his first 35. Paddy has missed many his best effort has been 7 in a row this year.

In the early 2000’s key forwards were kicking a hundred in a season, Lloyd in 01, and G Train in 04, which was when Rooey also had his break out season (he’d been pretty good before then) and we made the prelim. From memory his 50th was rd.1 2004.

In 2018 we’re probably looking at around 60 to win the Coleman this year, so it seems far harder for key forwards to kick goals in the modern era. Especially for a key fwd with 35 games under his belt in a bottom 4 side.

Imo we’re expecting far too much from a kid of Paddy’s experience... once he’s 50+ games we can get a better idea of where he’s at.

Roo kicked 61 goals in is 4th season.
He was 21 years old.

In his 2nd season he played a lot at half back and won the rising star award.

https://www.theage.com.au/articles/2002 ... 19632.html

Roo was getting 15 disposals and 8 marks per game.

So yeah. Nah.

“This year a back injury wrote off most of Koschitzke's second season, while Riewoldt took over at half-back, half-forward and wherever else the Saints needed him.”

That quote is from the article.

From what I remember he played almost/every game that year, played HB to get used to being out there, then forward quite a bit. Mainly HF, in a team where he was getting 4th or 5th best defender. He was fortunate enough to be eased into it.

My point being is that Paddy hasn’t had any continuity, his age doesn’t mean much imo, it’s more about continuity of games and games played/experience. Not to mention Paddy has copped the best or second best defender every week from the word go. Combine that with the efficiency into our forward line being atrocious in recent times.

Over all Paddy needs more time, he’s no Rooey, but despite a nightmare start to his career his stats are not too bad all things considered at this stage of his short career.