McCartin

[Ape_Man]

Pav already had 80 AFL goals at the age Paddy is at now.

Only 46 goals short I guess....

At 21 Plugger had kicked 117 in a season, won a Brownlow and a Coleman.

Those numbers mean Pav must have been ordinary.

We are comparing players at similar ages or games right?

Pav was a young star in the making building up.

Plugger was a plain freak.

Whats your point?

I thought my point was obvious, comparisons are sometimes ridiculous.

They are always 'so and so' isn't as good as a multiple All Australian player.

Paddy isn't Pav. Pav wasn't Plugger.

Paddy isnt even in the discussion with those two players.

Pav was only mentioned because he was on tv today.

Hang on a minute. I didn't bring up any comparisons to Pavlich. You did.

You bought up Pav's 80 goals at the same stage as Paddy.

All I did was mention that Plugger at the same stage was a Brownlow and Coleman medalist.

[The OtherThommo]

No doubt he was poor; but I’ve never seen a forward able to kick bags when the only delivery he gets are munged helicopters, hospital passes, grubbers or 15m either side of him.

I have, but he was the greatest player I’ve ever seen.

Been away for a while, but am 'inspired' to stick my oar back in.

I take it you're talking about A.J. Lockett?

So, Ape.........pauses for a breath...................have you got the slightest comprehension of the differences in the game when he played, and today?

Point 2 - A.J. Lockett had 2 blokes to lead to named Winwar and Harvey. Those 2 ring a bell?

This McCartin discussion is again deteriorating unto drivel.

[bobmurray]

Recommend people watch the replay and listen to Pavlich’s comments think he would have more of a clue than the usual suspect who does nothing but s*** can players.

Why dont you just f*** off Con you dumb prick.

Oh that’s right you did in a look at me look at me post but like a bad smell returned you absolute s*** stain.

He has been building form and showing improvement has a bad game where the ball use resembled an under 10 games and had to compete against an outnumber most of the game a point well articulated by Pavlich.

But then again what should we expect after all you bagged Billings after his first ever NAB cup game, never seen a so called supporter take so much joy out of
Bagging our players, silent when going okay but back with vengeance when they are not.

Reckon a postage stamp would be too big for you to write down what you know about the hame you dumb arse clown.

Good post and the truth.

Bulldust parkey, his post is way off, posted by a Con hater with a vendetta, i thought you knew your shite parkey, clearly i'm wrong, you backed the wrong horse.

[The OtherThommo]

3 on 1 all night with some of the worst delivery of the pill anyone is ever likely to see.

Let's throw another in, PRW - can anyone explain why McC was sent back in the first stanza, immediately after he came back on after tweaking his ankle, even though we were dominating field position and inside 50's at the time?

[parkeysainter]

Recommend people watch the replay and listen to Pavlich’s comments think he would have more of a clue than the usual suspect who does nothing but s*** can players.

Why dont you just f*** off Con you dumb prick.

Oh that’s right you did in a look at me look at me post but like a bad smell returned you absolute s*** stain.

He has been building form and showing improvement has a bad game where the ball use resembled an under 10 games and had to compete against an outnumber most of the game a point well articulated by Pavlich.

But then again what should we expect after all you bagged Billings after his first ever NAB cup game, never seen a so called supporter take so much joy out of
Bagging our players, silent when going okay but back with vengeance when they are not.

Reckon a postage stamp would be too big for you to write down what you know about the hame you dumb arse clown.

Good post and the truth.

Bulldust parkey, his post is way off, posted by a Con hater with a vendetta, i thought you knew your shite parkey, clearly i'm wrong, you backed the wrong horse.

Didn't back anyone BM. I love Paddy.
Plus Con does bag the f*** out of the entire club after every loss.

[Jacks Back]

McCartin tries to mark the ball like it is a hot potato. ONE GRAB MATE!

I'm afraid he will not make it (at St Kilda at least). If he wasn't a number 1 draft pick he wouldn't be getting a game with this sort of output. It's time to cut our loses and try and get a good trade for him (somehow).

[Ape_Man]

No doubt he was poor; but I’ve never seen a forward able to kick bags when the only delivery he gets are munged helicopters, hospital passes, grubbers or 15m either side of him.

I have, but he was the greatest player I’ve ever seen.

Been away for a while, but am 'inspired' to stick my oar back in.

I take it you're talking about A.J. Lockett?

So, Ape.........pauses for a breath...................have you got the slightest comprehension of the differences in the game when he played, and today?

Point 2 - A.J. Lockett had 2 blokes to lead to named Winwar and Harvey. Those 2 ring a bell?

This McCartin discussion is again deteriorating unto drivel.

Hi ToT,

Hold up for a second and take a breath.

I didn't actually say anything about McCartin.

I just responded to this part of the original post: 'but I’ve never seen a forward able to kick bags when the only delivery he gets are munged helicopters, hospital passes, grubbers or 15m either side of him'

To that I say 'Why yes, yes I have'

Had nothing to do with Paddy.

[The OtherThommo]

The comments are justified. Unfair to attack posters who have been more than patient with some of our high draft picks. McCartin on the list now for 4 years, Billings for 5 years. They are both average plodders at best. How many kicks of Billings were smothered today? He hardly wins his own ball, so to see him not being able to get a clear kick away magnified how bad he was again today. Supporters have been tolerant enough. 4-5 years of mediocre performance appraisals would not cut it in any position for the rest of us in the real world, so why should we tip-toe around their repeated mediocrity week after week?

I suggest you cast a wider eye if you want to master the theory of mediocrity, Kid.

It matters not a damn what draft pick a player went at 4, 5, 6 years ago. This is now, they're here, and there is never a magical solution to the endless raft of crap dished up by people who spend there whole lives thinking a 'number' defines theirs or anyone else's future.

So, here's a question - you want to piss off blokes like Paddy and Billings because they're 'flops', right. And, you're a real good judge, no, no-one better?

Can you explain to me what we're likely to receive in return for 2 blokes you state are hopeless mediocrities?

This entire argument as perpetrated by similar types is so riddled with logic holes as to make it laughable.

I come from the exact opposite perspective i.e. what has this football club done to develop the talent every goddamn 'expert' in the caper knew these 2 blokes (for example) had?

[bobmurray]

Recommend people watch the replay and listen to Pavlich’s comments think he would have more of a clue than the usual suspect who does nothing but s*** can players.

Why dont you just f*** off Con you dumb prick.

Oh that’s right you did in a look at me look at me post but like a bad smell returned you absolute s*** stain.

He has been building form and showing improvement has a bad game where the ball use resembled an under 10 games and had to compete against an outnumber most of the game a point well articulated by Pavlich.

But then again what should we expect after all you bagged Billings after his first ever NAB cup game, never seen a so called supporter take so much joy out of
Bagging our players, silent when going okay but back with vengeance when they are not.

Reckon a postage stamp would be too big for you to write down what you know about the hame you dumb arse clown.

Good post and the truth.

Bulldust parkey, his post is way off, posted by a Con hater with a vendetta, i thought you knew your shite parkey, clearly i'm wrong, you backed the wrong horse.

Didn't back anyone BM. I love Paddy.
Plus Con does bag the f*** out of the entire club after every loss.

You backed junior , who is a novice, that was the gist of my post, have another try.

[Devilhead]

Port is in the top 4 defences in the league if you go by points against and Paddy was double teamed and triple teamed all day with shocking delivery - he was far from the issue today

Would be more than happy to see Paddy play every game for the rest of the year and then back it up with a solid pre season

Last week's performance was extremely good with 11 score involvements and a couple of snags - the more games the better he will get especially if we can have a settled forward set up around him and find some good users of the footy

And I doubt Pav would tell porkies just to keep the network and AFL happy

[Ape_Man]

I suggest you cast a wider eye if you want to master the theory of mediocrity, Kid.

It matters not a damn what draft pick a player went at 4, 5, 6 years ago. This is now, they're here, and there is never a magical solution to the endless raft of crap dished up by people who spend there whole lives thinking a 'number' defines theirs or anyone else's future.

So, here's a question - you want to piss off blokes like Paddy and Billings because they're 'flops', right. And, you're a real good judge, no, no-one better?

Can you explain to me what we're likely to receive in return for 2 blokes you state are hopeless mediocrities?

This entire argument as perpetrated by similar types is so riddled with logic holes as to make it laughable.

I come from the exact opposite perspective i.e. what has this football club done to develop the talent every goddamn 'expert' in the caper knew these 2 blokes (for example) had?

I totally agree ToT.

I said in another thread that we can’t have got every single draft and trade wrong.

It would be statistically improbable.

The only constant is the club. That must be where we are problematic.

We can’t develop players.

[The OtherThommo]

Reality check for those making excuses.

Paddy McCartin - 34 goals from 35 games. 22 years old. Average team.

Charlie Curnow - 51 goals from 40 games. 21 years old. s*** team.

Eric Hipwood - 68 goals from 45 games. 20 years old. s*** team.

And, the much celebrated Charlie Dixon, Con?

He went in to today's game with 13 goals in 14 games played for the year. 27 years old - LAUDED. Until the last 7 odd minutes today, playing for the side that is now 2nd, even the Fuggs Footy imbeciles had him down as bested by a bloke who hasn't yet played double figure games, Logan Austin.

Bing-bada-boom, 'Chuck' kicks 3 in junk time, and all of a sudden he's a 'star'.

There are facts, there are figures, and then there's understanding, cognisance, if you like.

Early this year, Jesse Hogan was lauded as the modern day all round footballer forward, the one hardest to beat - he kicked 1 against us last week, and that was the first goal he'd kicked in 3 freakin' weeks. And, going into those 3 weeks, 'experts' were starting to discuss whether 'The Dees" might do a Dogs '16 or Tiggs '17.

I can take this as far as anyone likes. Example - Wet Toast won 10 in a row.....THEY'RE CHALLENGERS!!!! HAIL THE LORD!!! They then lose 2 players - 2!!! Darling 1 week, Kennedy the next - all of a sudden they're shot to bits, can't beat time with a stick. Aw, shucks, now they've got 'structural problems'.

From last week, we lost our Full Back, CH Back, and CHF. But, oh no, we haven't got 'structural problems'.

Look, we're poor, and I don't think the 'brains trust' has got a clue.

But, Con, me ol' mate, please don't dish up cherry picked pejorative driven stats.

Cos, I'll slaughter the rationale every freakin' time - you are not talking/writing sense.

[The OtherThommo]

Today he looked slow, he misjudged the ball, he fumbled, and he looked disinterested.
He wasn't hard at the contests.
It looked like he wasn't trying!

Nonsense, the whole of it.

[The OtherThommo]

I think Paddy would have been embarrassed by his game today. He does look like he has trouble judging a high ball and never seems to use his size to upset the opposition. I appreciate he is a fragile commodity but really, if you can't mark overhead or kick straight and are a slow big lump, make a defender feel uncomfortable when there is an opportunity. Last time he took a contested mark or won a contested ball? I imagine his drafting did for Mr. Elshaug, but that's not Paddy's fault. However if selection was fair dinkum he would not play next week or until he learns how to read play and actually contribute, not just expect to be spoon fed. Wishing won't make him a gun. The efforts by smaller players must impress him, they seem so brave and selfless for the team. Have a go Paddy, the prima donna #1 pick cotton wool stuff is getting old. If the unfortunate truth is you are not up to it physically then what to do. Make room for a goer.

Loved "Have a go Paddy, the prima donna #1 pick cotton wool stuff..........etc".

Such insight..........and idiocy..........and projection.

Fair dinkum.

[The OtherThommo]

Reality check for those making excuses.

Paddy McCartin - 34 goals from 35 games. 22 years old. Average team.

Charlie Curnow - 51 goals from 40 games. 21 years old. s*** team.

Eric Hipwood - 68 goals from 45 games. 20 years old. s*** team.

Either of those two broke a collarbone or been knocked out 3 times in games?

Dunno.

But maybe they have peripheral vision, awareness and agility and are therefore less likely to get injured?

Fair dinkum, Con, back in the (E'dope) days you used to be moved by evidence - now you're just grasping at RUBBISH!!

Good Lord man, what happened?!

[Ape_Man]

Reality check for those making excuses.

Paddy McCartin - 34 goals from 35 games. 22 years old. Average team.

Charlie Curnow - 51 goals from 40 games. 21 years old. s*** team.

Eric Hipwood - 68 goals from 45 games. 20 years old. s*** team.

Either of those two broke a collarbone or been knocked out 3 times in games?

Dunno.

But maybe they have peripheral vision, awareness and agility and are therefore less likely to get injured?

Fair dinkum, Con, back in the (E'dope) days you used to be moved by evidence - now you're just grasping at RUBBISH!!

Good Lord man, what happened?!

Evidence?

You called out my post with prejudice.

You need to calm a little. I think you are reading into things that may not be there.

[The OtherThommo]

Reality check for those making excuses.

Paddy McCartin - 34 goals from 35 games. 22 years old. Average team.

Charlie Curnow - 51 goals from 40 games. 21 years old. s*** team.

Eric Hipwood - 68 goals from 45 games. 20 years old. s*** team.

Con, don't forget that beyond these stats, when you watch Curnow and Hipwood you get genuinely excited and impressed with their general play and periods of brilliance. McCartin does not give you that at all. He looks and plays like a battler out there and his second efforts are virtually non-existent.

You really are easily excited, Kid. The truly concerning aspects of that excitement are 1) You're excited by blokes who play for other outfits, and 2) Those outfits sit below us on the ladder.

Look, I don't mind a bit of a Curnow or Hipwood extravagance, meself, but Good Lord, get real - neither will be a genuine star, for any extended period. The stats say I'm right, and you're wrong. Jack Riewoldt is a star, most of the rest are just wannabes. Why Jack? Runs on the board, natural footballer, excellent athlete, durable, playing in an outfit that has 'found the way'.

It's just reality.

[The OtherThommo]

Reality check for those making excuses.

Paddy McCartin - 34 goals from 35 games. 22 years old. Average team.

Charlie Curnow - 51 goals from 40 games. 21 years old. s*** team.

Eric Hipwood - 68 goals from 45 games. 20 years old. s*** team.

Con, don't forget that beyond these stats, when you watch Curnow and Hipwood you get genuinely excited and impressed with their general play and periods of brilliance. McCartin does not give you that at all. He looks and plays like a battler out there and his second efforts are virtually non-existent.

Both could play in multiple positions too. Either could play on a wing if required.

They may well finish up playing on a wing..................

[silverhalo]

The comments are justified. Unfair to attack posters who have been more than patient with some of our high draft picks. McCartin on the list now for 4 years, Billings for 5 years. They are both average plodders at best. How many kicks of Billings were smothered today? He hardly wins his own ball, so to see him not being able to get a clear kick away magnified how bad he was again today. Supporters have been tolerant enough. 4-5 years of mediocre performance appraisals would not cut it in any position for the rest of us in the real world, so why should we tip-toe around their repeated mediocrity week after week?

Absolutely agree with you - we need to stop making excuses for these guys.

McCartin is a spud and will never make it - I just can't see any reason why we would want to recruit him other than the fact that he is big - he may have looked better than average against smaller teenage bodies but just not up to it at this level - trade him out and take an early third rounder if necessary - we have enough forwards.

Billings is frustrating because he is classy but just doesn't consistently perform at the level we expect of him. There is a perception that he lacks courage, never seems to have time when he has the ball so always under pressure, kicks are often smothered, and his elite kicking that he was renowned for when he came to the club has just disappeared. It pains me to say it but it could be a win/win if we can trade him out for a high first round pick - change of scenery might do him the world of good and we bring in a top liner.

[The OtherThommo]

Reality check for those making excuses.

Paddy McCartin - 34 goals from 35 games. 22 years old. Average team.

Charlie Curnow - 51 goals from 40 games. 21 years old. s*** team.

Eric Hipwood - 68 goals from 45 games. 20 years old. s*** team.

Either of those two broke a collarbone or been knocked out 3 times in games?

Dunno.

But maybe they have peripheral vision, awareness and agility and are therefore less likely to get injured?

Or maybe they’ve just been lucky.

Umpires.
Injuries.

Someone at the Saints must have killed a Chinaman hey curls? All this rotten luck over the last 100 years.

Just because you bothered to mention umpires, Con, and to follow up on the response to St.B's tabling of free kick stats differentials;

https://www.google.com.au/search?q=psyc ... e&ie=UTF-8

And, more specifically;

https://www.google.com.au/search?q=colo ... e&ie=UTF-8

https://www.google.com.au/search?q=colo ... e&ie=UTF-8

Let me repeat some of that;

http://www.bbc.com/future/story/2014082 ... s-the-mind

"A new branch of science called “colour psychology” has found that red can have a profound influence on our mood, perceptions and actions."

Note the word always mentioned "It represents DANGER".

St. Byron's stats tell no lies.

[The OtherThommo]

Recommend people watch the replay and listen to Pavlich’s comments think he would have more of a clue than the usual suspect who does nothing but s*** can players.

Why dont you just f*** off Con you dumb prick.

Oh that’s right you did in a look at me look at me post but like a bad smell returned you absolute s*** stain.

He has been building form and showing improvement has a bad game where the ball use resembled an under 10 games and had to compete against an outnumber most of the game a point well articulated by Pavlich.

But then again what should we expect after all you bagged Billings after his first ever NAB cup game, never seen a so called supporter take so much joy out of
Bagging our players, silent when going okay but back with vengeance when they are not.

Reckon a postage stamp would be too big for you to write down what you know about the hame you dumb arse clown.

What did Pav say?

Who cares what Pav says on the Channel 7 broadcast.
Professional broadcasters are paid and trained to sell hope to supporters. Keep them interested. Keep them watching. This is to sell advertising space.
Just how dumb are you junior?

What matters is what Pav thinks and says in PRIVATE.

So unless junior boy here is a very close private friend of Pav - then seriously it is clear who is dumb...And it aint me.

Again, Con, you're resembling someone who is stuck in your own confirmation bias loop.

An example from something I mentioned earlier - before Dixon kicks 3 in junk time, commentariat on the telly has Austin winning the duel. Dixon kicks 3 in junktime, and he's a star.

Which version was the 'corporate speak', and which was 'honest'?

[Leo.J]

At 35 games Rooey had kicked 30 goals. Given a couple early we’re down back.

His first bag was Stewie Loewe’s last game when he kicked 6. Which was around about game 28.

Roo played alongside Stewie (for his first 28), G Train, Sammy Hamel, which meant he would get at least the 3rd tall on him. There were no zones, most of his first 35 games he was one out with his opponent. And we lost most of those games.

Roo missed only 1 game of his first 35. Paddy has missed many his best effort has been 7 in a row this year.

In the early 2000’s key forwards were kicking a hundred in a season, Lloyd in 01, and G Train in 04, which was when Rooey also had his break out season (he’d been pretty good before then) and we made the prelim. From memory his 50th was rd.1 2004.

In 2018 we’re probably looking at around 60 to win the Coleman this year, so it seems far harder for key forwards to kick goals in the modern era. Especially for a key fwd with 35 games under his belt in a bottom 4 side.

Imo we’re expecting far too much from a kid of Paddy’s experience... once he’s 50+ games we can get a better idea of where he’s at.

[The OtherThommo]

The comments are justified. Unfair to attack posters who have been more than patient with some of our high draft picks. McCartin on the list now for 4 years, Billings for 5 years. They are both average plodders at best. How many kicks of Billings were smothered today? He hardly wins his own ball, so to see him not being able to get a clear kick away magnified how bad he was again today. Supporters have been tolerant enough. 4-5 years of mediocre performance appraisals would not cut it in any position for the rest of us in the real world, so why should we tip-toe around their repeated mediocrity week after week?

Absolutely agree with you - we need to stop making excuses for these guys.

McCartin is a spud and will never make it - I just can't see any reason why we would want to recruit him other than the fact that he is big - he may have looked better than average against smaller teenage bodies but just not up to it at this level - trade him out and take an early third rounder if necessary - we have enough forwards.

Billings is frustrating because he is classy but just doesn't consistently perform at the level we expect of him. There is a perception that he lacks courage, never seems to have time when he has the ball so always under pressure, kicks are often smothered, and his elite kicking that he was renowned for when he came to the club has just disappeared. It pains me to say it but it could be a win/win if we can trade him out for a high first round pick - change of scenery might do him the world of good and we bring in a top liner.

Do you actually take note of what happens?

Last week, Billings 'elite kicking disappeared' to the extent that his mid 20's possessions were delivered at over 90% efficiency.

Pretty flippin' high number for a disappearance.

Facts, eh?

As for McCartin being a "spud", into projection much, are ya?

Vaccuous contribution that exhibits SFA understanding of the game or the individuals that play it.

[The OtherThommo]

Pav already had 80 AFL goals at the age Paddy is at now.

Only 46 goals short I guess....

What’s your point?

I have several.

1. Pav's broadcast opinion may not reflect his private opinion. Broadcasters jobs are to promote the game, entertain and sell advertising. Not tell the truth.

2. McCartin is well well below par for a 22 year old key fwd. If he is going to be the gun people are hoping for there would need to be a dramatic metamorphosis.

If Paddy had a injury free run your opinion may have some merit.

If I had a bit of luck id be banging a model on a yacht right now.

So what.

I deal in reality not coulda, shoulda, woulda which seems to be your stock and trade.

That would be one extraordinary dose of luck, Con.

But, good luck.

[The OtherThommo]

Pav already had 80 AFL goals at the age Paddy is at now.

Only 46 goals short I guess....

At 21 Plugger had kicked 117 in a season, won a Brownlow and a Coleman.

Those numbers mean Pav must have been ordinary.

We are comparing players at similar ages or games right?

Pav was a young star in the making building up.

Plugger was a plain freak.

Whats your point?

What's yours?

Eras make no difference?