Billy has a Tagger

[The_Dud]

Billy’s ‘presence’ is a bigger myth than Stoney’s football career!

Please, someone highlight an instance whete his ‘presence’ was evident?

The facts are he didn’t win one 50/50 contest around the ground all day, and was regularly beaten and out marked by Gawn and even Brayshaw!!! If the ball stays in the area after a ruck contest you can guarantee Billy will fall to ground a second later, bloke can’t even stay on his feet!

He’s the biggest bloke on the ground and can’t even take a mark, let alone a contested mark, which says a lot about his ‘physical presence’! I guarantee no one is scared of ol’ Billy. Battle has more presence than him and he’s still a kid!

Mumford was a modern ruckman with ‘presence’, and Billy is not worthy to even tie his shoelaces.

[samoht]

Let's not lose sight of the fact that the exchange rate is ...
1 Longer + 1 Hickey = 0.5 Grundy

Can we somehow trade both for an elite ruckman?

[stonecold]

Billy’s ‘presence’ is a bigger myth than Stoney’s football career!

Please, someone highlight an instance whete his ‘presence’ was evident?

The facts are he didn’t win one 50/50 contest around the ground all day, and was regularly beaten and out marked by Gawn and even Brayshaw!!! If the ball stays in the area after a ruck contest you can guarantee Billy will fall to ground a second later, bloke can’t even stay on his feet!

He’s the biggest bloke on the ground and can’t even take a mark, let alone a contested mark, which says a lot about his ‘physical presence’! I guarantee no one is scared of ol’ Billy. Battle has more presence than him and he’s still a kid!

Mumford was a modern ruckman with ‘presence’, and Billy is not worthy to even tie his shoelaces.

No worries, more than happy to back my career against most, happy to play a few minutes on the likes of you!!!!!

[samuraisaint]

Billy is strong in the contest, impacts the packs and tries to clear a space for the mids. Similar (but not as good as yet) as Lazar. You have the wrong end of the stick Rodge

That's just simply not true.


His biggest issue is that he is utterly feeble in contests. Brayshaw's second goal was from a one on one marking contest with Longer, in which Longer was outbodied by a little, skinny onballer and went to the ground (somehow?) whilst Brayshaw kept his feet and won the ball.

The one thing that he does bring to the table, is that he throws his body into centre ruck contests. He's brave and tough in that sense. He certainly tries.

But he loses hitouts, and aside from the Gold Coast game, we lose centre clearances when he plays.

The only stat that we significantly do better in when he plays, is our F50 entries per goal efficiency. And I can't see how that can be attributed to him?

I was talking about Longer, not Hickey.

Hickey is very ordinary - but unfortunately what Hickey lacks, Longer doesn't really deliver on either.

FWIW....

Ruckman	Wins	Inside 50s	Disposals	Points For	Points Against	Clearances	Hitouts
Marshall	0%	3	-20	55	104	-3	-20
Longer	75%	-2.5	36.3	87.3	93	1.75	-18.75
Hickey	0%	-3.9	-1.4	66.8	99.1	0	11

So when Longer plays, basically we're a 1 goal better team defensively, and just over 3 goals better offensively. We get 1 more Inside 50, but lose nearly 2 more Clearances - and get walloped badly in the Hitouts. We get our hands on the ball about 37 more times.

However one of those games includes Gold Coast, where we has a massive 32 more Clearances and 17 more Inside 50s than them! So that skews the stats a bit.


For mine, if you're looking for a barometer, I'd look at Armitage. In the games that Longer's played in, he's been healthy and has averaged 5 Inside 50s, 4 Clearances and 25 Disposals himself! Rather than trying to find a link between Longer and the team's success that just doesn't seem to add up - Armitage being healthy is one that not only passes the 'gut feel' test, but also has the numbers to back it up.

If Armitage had played a full season last year we would have played finals. We would've beaten Port Adelaide in Adelaide, and if he hadn't gone off injured against West Coast in Perth in round 2 we would have won that match as well. That would have given us 13 wins. No doubt in my mind.

Marshall's stats look reasonable because when he plays we have two ruckmen in the side. We look better when we do that. I don't care what Richmond do, the Hawks play two ruckmen and it's working alright for them. Against Port we should definitely leave Billy Longer in the side to work Ryder over physically, and play Marshall (or Hickey, I don't care which) to give Billy a chop out, or if Billy needs to cover Ryder if he rests in the forward line. Otherwise someone else will do a groin, a vertabrae in the back, or get a fractured eye socket.

[CURLY]

Billy’s ‘presence’ is a bigger myth than Stoney’s football career!

Please, someone highlight an instance whete his ‘presence’ was evident?

The facts are he didn’t win one 50/50 contest around the ground all day, and was regularly beaten and out marked by Gawn and even Brayshaw!!! If the ball stays in the area after a ruck contest you can guarantee Billy will fall to ground a second later, bloke can’t even stay on his feet!

He’s the biggest bloke on the ground and can’t even take a mark, let alone a contested mark, which says a lot about his ‘physical presence’! I guarantee no one is scared of ol’ Billy. Battle has more presence than him and he’s still a kid!

Mumford was a modern ruckman with ‘presence’, and Billy is not worthy to even tie his shoelaces.

The hit out to Gresham to win the GC game. There you go.

[spert]

Billy’s ‘presence’ is a bigger myth than Stoney’s football career!

Please, someone highlight an instance whete his ‘presence’ was evident?

The facts are he didn’t win one 50/50 contest around the ground all day, and was regularly beaten and out marked by Gawn and even Brayshaw!!! If the ball stays in the area after a ruck contest you can guarantee Billy will fall to ground a second later, bloke can’t even stay on his feet!

He’s the biggest bloke on the ground and can’t even take a mark, let alone a contested mark, which says a lot about his ‘physical presence’! I guarantee no one is scared of ol’ Billy. Battle has more presence than him and he’s still a kid!

Mumford was a modern ruckman with ‘presence’, and Billy is not worthy to even tie his shoelaces.

The hit out to Gresham to win the GC game. There you go.

Plus a flogging by Gawn last week and couldn't even judge a mark against smaller opponents :

[parkeysainter]

Are you Billy's player agent Stonecold?

No, not quite!!!!!

Maybe Billy himself!

[stonecold]

Are you Billy's player agent Stonecold?

No, not quite!!!!!

Maybe Billy himself!

Who knows, reckon if I am, might be a few 'legends' on here changing their panties!!!!!

[SydneySainter]

Billy’s ‘presence’ is a bigger myth than Stoney’s football career!

Please, someone highlight an instance whete his ‘presence’ was evident?

The facts are he didn’t win one 50/50 contest around the ground all day, and was regularly beaten and out marked by Gawn and even Brayshaw!!! If the ball stays in the area after a ruck contest you can guarantee Billy will fall to ground a second later, bloke can’t even stay on his feet!

He’s the biggest bloke on the ground and can’t even take a mark, let alone a contested mark, which says a lot about his ‘physical presence’! I guarantee no one is scared of ol’ Billy. Battle has more presence than him and he’s still a kid!

Mumford was a modern ruckman with ‘presence’, and Billy is not worthy to even tie his shoelaces.

The hit out to Gresham to win the GC game. There you go.

Wow. One hit out that was actually to Steven (who was being held). The man is a frightening!!!

[samoht]

Let's not mention the other silly-billy hitout into space in front of GC's goalface which cost his side a goal.
Gawn was clearly best on ground... with 135 dream points.

[Linton Lodger]

Billy’s ‘presence’ is a bigger myth than Stoney’s football career!

Please, someone highlight an instance whete his ‘presence’ was evident?

The facts are he didn’t win one 50/50 contest around the ground all day, and was regularly beaten and out marked by Gawn and even Brayshaw!!! If the ball stays in the area after a ruck contest you can guarantee Billy will fall to ground a second later, bloke can’t even stay on his feet!

He’s the biggest bloke on the ground and can’t even take a mark, let alone a contested mark, which says a lot about his ‘physical presence’! I guarantee no one is scared of ol’ Billy. Battle has more presence than him and he’s still a kid!

Mumford was a modern ruckman with ‘presence’, and Billy is not worthy to even tie his shoelaces.

The hit out to Gresham to win the GC game. There you go.

Plus a flogging by Gawn last week and couldn't even judge a mark against smaller opponents :

But Gawn didn't flog him. Let Melb supporters fawn over Gawn's losing game. Rope a dope, Ali vs Frazier, Gawn was the dope.

[The_Dud]

Are you Billy's player agent Stonecold?

No, not quite!!!!!

Maybe Billy himself!

Who knows, reckon if I am, might be a few 'legends' on here changing their panties!!!!!

I can feel your ‘presence’ from here!

[The_Dud]

Billy’s ‘presence’ is a bigger myth than Stoney’s football career!

Please, someone highlight an instance whete his ‘presence’ was evident?

The facts are he didn’t win one 50/50 contest around the ground all day, and was regularly beaten and out marked by Gawn and even Brayshaw!!! If the ball stays in the area after a ruck contest you can guarantee Billy will fall to ground a second later, bloke can’t even stay on his feet!

He’s the biggest bloke on the ground and can’t even take a mark, let alone a contested mark, which says a lot about his ‘physical presence’! I guarantee no one is scared of ol’ Billy. Battle has more presence than him and he’s still a kid!

Mumford was a modern ruckman with ‘presence’, and Billy is not worthy to even tie his shoelaces.

The hit out to Gresham to win the GC game. There you go.

Plus a flogging by Gawn last week and couldn't even judge a mark against smaller opponents :

But Gawn didn't flog him. Let Melb supporters fawn over Gawn's losing game. Rope a dope, Ali vs Frazier, Gawn was the dope.

Yeah what a dope, he was only voted BOG by a mile across the board.

I wish we had more ‘dopey’ players...

[samoht]

Who was that Melbourne midfielder, who as soon as he went into the centre (and stopped tagging Steven), had something like 15 possessions in the last quarter. Was it Viney?
Billy kept hitting it to him in the last quarter - and he just kept clearing the ball with ease. They only needed 1 quarter to wipe away our significant lead.
All I can say is lucky Viney wasn't played in the guts from the start of the game - we have the incompetent Melbourne coach to thank for that.

Gawn was 2 cuts above ... "a cut above" would be an understatement.

[CURLY]

Billy’s ‘presence’ is a bigger myth than Stoney’s football career!

Please, someone highlight an instance whete his ‘presence’ was evident?

The facts are he didn’t win one 50/50 contest around the ground all day, and was regularly beaten and out marked by Gawn and even Brayshaw!!! If the ball stays in the area after a ruck contest you can guarantee Billy will fall to ground a second later, bloke can’t even stay on his feet!

He’s the biggest bloke on the ground and can’t even take a mark, let alone a contested mark, which says a lot about his ‘physical presence’! I guarantee no one is scared of ol’ Billy. Battle has more presence than him and he’s still a kid!

Mumford was a modern ruckman with ‘presence’, and Billy is not worthy to even tie his shoelaces.

The hit out to Gresham to win the GC game. There you go.

Wow. One hit out that was actually to Steven (who was being held). The man is a frightening!!!

Won us the game. Happy with that a big moment and Longer delivered.

[parkeysainter]

Are you Billy's player agent Stonecold?

No, not quite!!!!!

Maybe Billy himself!

Who knows, reckon if I am, might be a few 'legends' on here changing their panties!!!!!

Welcome aboard Billy. I bet you and Tom are laughing your heads off at this forum.

[stonecold]

Are you Billy's player agent Stonecold?

No, not quite!!!!!

Maybe Billy himself!

Who knows, reckon if I am, might be a few 'legends' on here changing their panties!!!!!

I can feel your ‘presence’ from here!

I hope you didn't 'soil' your mum's panties!!!!!

[Linton Lodger]

Who was that Melbourne midfielder, who as soon as he went into the centre (and stopped tagging Steven), had something like 15 possessions in the last quarter. Was it Viney?
Billy kept hitting it to him in the last quarter - and he just kept clearing the ball with ease. They only needed 1 quarter to wipe away our significant lead.
All I can say is lucky Viney wasn't played in the guts from the start of the game - we have the incompetent Melbourne coach to thank for that.

Gawn was 2 cuts above ... "a cut above" would be an understatement.

Yep had a great game as a defensive outside midfielder, because they're crap on the outside. He had to play like that because we polaxed them on the outside. They were never going to beat us in those circumstances. If we hadn't lost Brown, we won by 5 to 7 goals.

Our lead was 20 points (would've been more if we hadn't lost Brown) not significant. You're right about Viney, except he wasn't fed by Longer, he just did some great work and is a gun. Still we rebounded often enough to keep them at bay. If Gawn wants or needs to play as an outside mid Melbourne are in trouble. Billy was more than competitive at stoppages, his knee thumping into Gawn's midriff most contests and Gawn had minimal influence at stoppages.

When we played Melbourne earlier in the season, Gawn smashed us around stoppages and was a large part of the reason they touched us up. Not this time. We played the way we wanted to play and that started from Billy and the midfielders.

Gawn best on ground my arse. Better than Gresham, Steven, Steele, Armitage and even Viney? Bullsh*t.

EDIT: Sinclair, Carlisle and Brayshaw had better games than Gawn as well.

[asiu]

phew

that means i'm safe
we taswegians wear our sisters

[samoht]

Hitouts are the most over-rated stat there is - and anyway, Longer lost in the hitout department too.
And Billy was absolutely destroyed around the ground.
Melbourne is in sh1t form (losing their last 3 games), but despite this Gawn had a huge influence on the game (and was clearly BOG) - and had Viney played in the centre all day, the result would have been vastly different.

Swap Longer and Gawn - and we would have been 6 goals further ahead.

[rodgerfox]

When we played Melbourne earlier in the season, Gawn smashed us around stoppages and was a large part of the reason they touched us up. Not this time. We played the way we wanted to play and that started from Billy and the midfielders.

But they had 12 more Inside 50s than us, and 7 more Centre Clearances. Our game didn't start in the middle at all. They won the centre square battle and the middle of the ground comfortably, but wasted it going into their F50.

We had 9 more Rebound 50s than them, and 25 more Disposals - that's where we won the ball. Longer had nothing to do with that.


Do the math....7 more Centre Clearances, 12 more Inside 50s, and 9 less Rebound 50s. They were getting the ball first, and owning the middle - but giving it back to us in our D50 - we used the ball efficiently going forward once they gave it to us.

They had more Contested Possessions - yet we had 35 more Uncontested Possessions. We killed them on the way back.

[rodgerfox]

Billy was more than competitive at stoppages, his knee thumping into Gawn's midriff most contests and Gawn had minimal influence at stoppages.

I do agree with this bit. He does throw his body into ruck contests. It doesn't result in us winning clearances, and it clearly doesn't stop his direct opponent from getting the ball at will - but at least it's something he brings to the table.

I'm not being facetious either with the comment. He does put his body on the line in ruck contest. If he could do the same in marking contests he'd suddenly be an Ok player. But until then, he's just very mediocre.

[Saints43]

A mate of mine is a friend of Stan Alves. Alves told him an anecdote about his days at St Kilda which I don't think he's ever publicly shared, at least as far as I know.

Don't know which year this occurred, could've been 1997, but I'm not sure. Stan asked the players to write down the team mate they most respected. The resounding winner shocked Stan. It wasn't a matter of Stan not rating the player, but he was surprised, because it wasn't Harvey or Burke.

He thought they might be taking the mickey, so he went back to them and asked WTF? Were they taking the Mickey? They assured him they were completely serious and were eager to explain why.

I'll give fellow Forumites a while to see if they can work out who that player was.

Jayson Daniels?

[kosifantutti]

Billy has that immeasurable quality we all over look. 'Presence.'

Stonecold sees it though

Got to agree there.
My daughter asked early in the last quarter “is Billy even there?” It took me a while to find him but he was present.

[Linton Lodger]

A mate of mine is a friend of Stan Alves. Alves told him an anecdote about his days at St Kilda which I don't think he's ever publicly shared, at least as far as I know.

Don't know which year this occurred, could've been 1997, but I'm not sure. Stan asked the players to write down the team mate they most respected. The resounding winner shocked Stan. It wasn't a matter of Stan not rating the player, but he was surprised, because it wasn't Harvey or Burke.

He thought they might be taking the mickey, so he went back to them and asked WTF? Were they taking the Mickey? They assured him they were completely serious and were eager to explain why.

I'll give fellow Forumites a while to see if they can work out who that player was.

Jayson Daniels?

Nope, answer in one of my earlier replies.