Billy has a Tagger
Moderators: Saintsational Administrators, Saintsational Moderators
-
- SS Life Member
- Posts: 3385
- Joined: Wed 12 Sep 2007 5:30pm
- Has thanked: 172 times
- Been thanked: 519 times
Billy has a Tagger
Interesting info I was told on the weekend by someone who works as a scout for an AFL team that he has been asked by his club to watch all Longer's games for some time now ( AFL and VFL) as this club are interested in him and in need os a ruckman.
Clearly rated by some in the AFL .
Clearly rated by some in the AFL .
-
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 18653
- Joined: Thu 11 Mar 2004 1:36am
- Has thanked: 1993 times
- Been thanked: 872 times
-
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 5111
- Joined: Tue 13 Jun 2017 1:16pm
- Has thanked: 1457 times
- Been thanked: 1525 times
Re: Billy has a Tagger
Hasn't the scout woken up to the practical joke yet? Cruel way to sideline him. (Still love to read his assessment notes, but).
-
- Club Player
- Posts: 338
- Joined: Wed 23 May 2018 12:51pm
- Has thanked: 34 times
- Been thanked: 101 times
Re: Billy has a Tagger
I find it hard to imagine any team would be interested in him.
On the other hand he has age on his side and is good in the ruck but I'm not sure clubs today would be willing to look at someone who hasn't proven he can do literally anything around the ground at all.
Fingers crossed he's competes hard and would like to see him improve
On the other hand he has age on his side and is good in the ruck but I'm not sure clubs today would be willing to look at someone who hasn't proven he can do literally anything around the ground at all.
Fingers crossed he's competes hard and would like to see him improve
-
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 10505
- Joined: Fri 16 Feb 2007 3:24pm
- Location: WARBURTON
- Has thanked: 148 times
- Been thanked: 1344 times
Re: Billy has a Tagger
Geelong would be all over Longer and I would think Hawthorn would be interested.
NO IFS OR BUTS HARVS IS KING OF THE AFL
- Wayne42
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 4911
- Joined: Mon 24 Jun 2013 10:27pm
- Has thanked: 619 times
- Been thanked: 558 times
Re: Billy has a Tagger
On SEN on Sunday Frawley said "Billy's not the sharpest tool in the shed" .
He'd fit right in at some clubs.
He'd fit right in at some clubs.
The Saints are under review, will it make any difference to the underachievers ?
-
- Club Player
- Posts: 338
- Joined: Wed 23 May 2018 12:51pm
- Has thanked: 34 times
- Been thanked: 101 times
Re: Billy has a Tagger
Yeah potentially. Not sure though on Clarkson he's mentioned before that he thinks hit out's can be a pointless stat sometimes so assume he values around the ground work more. Ben Mcevoy certainly never that good at winning hit outs.
- Joffa Burns
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 7081
- Joined: Tue 09 Mar 2004 5:48pm
- Has thanked: 1871 times
- Been thanked: 1570 times
Re: Billy has a Tagger
Have written this previously but Billy is a perfect fit for GWS and would probably become a premiership ruckman at that club.
Proudly assuming the title of forum Oracle and serving as the inaugural Saintsational ‘weak as piss brigade’ President.
- Joffa Burns
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 7081
- Joined: Tue 09 Mar 2004 5:48pm
- Has thanked: 1871 times
- Been thanked: 1570 times
Re: Billy has a Tagger
Have written this previously but Billy is a perfect fit for GWS and would probably become a premiership ruckman at that club.
Proudly assuming the title of forum Oracle and serving as the inaugural Saintsational ‘weak as piss brigade’ President.
- SydneySainter
- SS Hall of Fame
- Posts: 2428
- Joined: Sat 26 May 2007 6:59pm
- Has thanked: 54 times
- Been thanked: 160 times
Re: Billy has a Tagger
Billy's hit out tally also hasn't been anything to write home about this season, so I can't imagine that would be a big enough draw card.Viscount Jeremiah wrote: ↑Tue 03 Jul 2018 10:20pmYeah potentially. Not sure though on Clarkson he's mentioned before that he thinks hit out's can be a pointless stat sometimes so assume he values around the ground work more. Ben Mcevoy certainly never that good at winning hit outs.
Bad management is bad management
- rodgerfox
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 9059
- Joined: Wed 10 Mar 2004 9:10am
- Has thanked: 425 times
- Been thanked: 327 times
Re: Billy has a Tagger
Why?Joffa Burns wrote: ↑Wed 04 Jul 2018 12:04am Have written this previously but Billy is a perfect fit for GWS and would probably become a premiership ruckman at that club.
Dawson Simpson's numbers monster Longer's this year. And he's widely renowned as a mediocre ruckman.
What could Longer possibly offer that he doesn't?
- rodgerfox
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 9059
- Joined: Wed 10 Mar 2004 9:10am
- Has thanked: 425 times
- Been thanked: 327 times
Re: Billy has a Tagger
Why?
I try really, really hard to see what Longer brings to the table - but I just can't.
Given he'll be 26yo next year, What would he do at Hawthorn or Geelong that McEvoy or Rhys Stanley don't offer ?
All of their numbers are way, waaaay above Longers.
- rodgerfox
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 9059
- Joined: Wed 10 Mar 2004 9:10am
- Has thanked: 425 times
- Been thanked: 327 times
Re: Billy has a Tagger
Viscount Jeremiah wrote: ↑Tue 03 Jul 2018 10:20pmYeah potentially. Not sure though on Clarkson he's mentioned before that he thinks hit out's can be a pointless stat sometimes so assume he values around the ground work more. Ben Mcevoy certainly never that good at winning hit outs.
He's beaten badly statistically by McEvoy, Stanley and Dawson Simpson (just 3 average rucks I've picked out based on the current conversation) in the following areas:
Longer McEvoy Stanley Simpson
4 Games 14 10 4
1.8 Kicks Per Game 4.9 6.1 3
3.8 Handballs Per Game 7.3 6.7 6.5
5.5 Disposals Per Game 12.1 12.8 9.5
1 Marks Per Game 3.6 3.1 1.5
0 Goals Per Game 0.3 0.6 0
0 Behinds Per Game 0.3 0.3 0.2
1.5 Tackles Per Game 3.1 3.1 3.2
24.2 Hitouts Per Game 28.8 30.5 30.2
0.8 Inside 50s Per Game 1.1 2.1 0.5
0.2 Goal Assists Per Game 0.3 0.3 0
0.5 Frees For Per Game 1.2 1.6 1.5
1.8 Frees Against Per Game 0.6 1.7 0.2
2.5 Contested Possessions Per Game 6.2 6.4 6.5
3 Uncontested Possessions Per Game 6.1 7 3.8
3.5 Effective Disposals Per Game 9.6 10 7
63.60% Disposal Efficiency % Per Game 79.30% 78.10% 73.70%
2.2 Clangers Per Game 1.2 2.7 0.8
0 Contested Marks Per Game 1.2 0.7 0.2
0 Marks Inside 50 Per Game 0.6 0.7 0
1.5 Clearances Per Game 1.8 3.3 3.8
0 Rebound 50s Per Game 0.8 0.8 0.5
3.2 One Percenters Per Game 4.9 4.9 2.2
0.2 Centre Clearances Per Game 0.9 1.6 1.8
1.2 Stoppage Clearances Per Game 0.9 1.7 2
2 Score Involvements Per Game 4.1 4.6 3.5
41.5 Metres Gained Per Game 74.9 159.7 53.5
0.5 Turnovers Per Game 1.2 2.1 0.2
1 Intercepts Per Game 2.3 2.2 1.8
0 Tackles Inside 50 Per Game 0.3 0.1 0.5
I know that is hard to read....but basically all the 'major' stats such as kicks, marks and hitouts - they absolutely kill him in. And even the 'little things' or the 'crash and bash' stuff that apparently Longer possesses, such as 'Tackles', 'Tackles Inside 50', 'One Percenters', 'Clearances' etc. he's also well behind.
I keep trying, but I just can't see it on Longer. He's a big, lumbering, crash and bash ruckman that doesn't get the ball and doesn't crash and bash anything! He certainly tries, and has a crack at least.
- The_Dud
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 14060
- Joined: Sun 27 May 2007 9:53pm
- Location: Bendigo
- Has thanked: 1315 times
- Been thanked: 2093 times
Re: Billy has a Tagger
I think you’re forgetting about the ‘unmeasurables’ Rodger, like ‘guarding space’ and ‘not crowding our forward line’ which easily elevate Billy to a top 10 ruckman in the league!
If someone wants to give us a 5th round pick for him then we should thank our lucky stars!
If someone wants to give us a 5th round pick for him then we should thank our lucky stars!
All posters are equal, but some posters are more equal than others.
- rodgerfox
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 9059
- Joined: Wed 10 Mar 2004 9:10am
- Has thanked: 425 times
- Been thanked: 327 times
Re: Billy has a Tagger
Clearances Hitouts Ruckman Result
R1 -17 -19 Longer Win
R2 -2 -32 Longer Loss
R3 -3 -20 Marshall Loss
R4 +13 -8 Hickey Loss
R5 -6 -12 Hickey Draw
R6 -4 -13 Hickey Loss
R7 -6 -4 Hickey Loss
R8 -10 -20 Hickey Loss
R9 -3 -24 Hickey Loss
R10 0 +11 Hickey Loss
R11 +7 -6 Hickey Loss
R12 -12 -2 Hickey Loss
R13 +31 -8 Longer Win
R15 -5 -16 Longer Win
There's no pattern really with either ruckman. We sucked against Brisbane in R1 but won. We were mauled in hitouts and clearances that day. We played 1 good quarter against the Gold Coast and won. We were beaten easily in hitouts - yet absolutely smashed them in clearances.
We were beaten in the ruck against GWS - yet Drew the game.
We were smashed in the ruck against Melbourne yet won.
I think the answer to this debate is - both of our ruckman suck. And it would be absolutely shithouse being an on-baller to either of them! Longer puts on his angry face and has a crack - but gets pushed around by little guys in contests and can't find the ball.
Hickey can find the ball and but doesn't have a crack and seems to tip toe around a bit.
If someone out there was to offer their second string ruckman for either of these two - we'd be mad not to take it in a heart beat.
R1 -17 -19 Longer Win
R2 -2 -32 Longer Loss
R3 -3 -20 Marshall Loss
R4 +13 -8 Hickey Loss
R5 -6 -12 Hickey Draw
R6 -4 -13 Hickey Loss
R7 -6 -4 Hickey Loss
R8 -10 -20 Hickey Loss
R9 -3 -24 Hickey Loss
R10 0 +11 Hickey Loss
R11 +7 -6 Hickey Loss
R12 -12 -2 Hickey Loss
R13 +31 -8 Longer Win
R15 -5 -16 Longer Win
There's no pattern really with either ruckman. We sucked against Brisbane in R1 but won. We were mauled in hitouts and clearances that day. We played 1 good quarter against the Gold Coast and won. We were beaten easily in hitouts - yet absolutely smashed them in clearances.
We were beaten in the ruck against GWS - yet Drew the game.
We were smashed in the ruck against Melbourne yet won.
I think the answer to this debate is - both of our ruckman suck. And it would be absolutely shithouse being an on-baller to either of them! Longer puts on his angry face and has a crack - but gets pushed around by little guys in contests and can't find the ball.
Hickey can find the ball and but doesn't have a crack and seems to tip toe around a bit.
If someone out there was to offer their second string ruckman for either of these two - we'd be mad not to take it in a heart beat.
-
- SS Life Member
- Posts: 3950
- Joined: Thu 24 Sep 2015 3:12pm
- Has thanked: 372 times
- Been thanked: 214 times
Re: Billy has a Tagger
No Pattern, really?????
Try wins and losses!!!!!
Honestly?????
Try wins and losses!!!!!
Honestly?????
'Cause StoneCold Said So'!!!!!
We will be great again once Billy is back playing!!!!!
The 'Last Post', it's the gift that keeps giving
We will be great again once Billy is back playing!!!!!
The 'Last Post', it's the gift that keeps giving
- SydneySainter
- SS Hall of Fame
- Posts: 2428
- Joined: Sat 26 May 2007 6:59pm
- Has thanked: 54 times
- Been thanked: 160 times
Re: Billy has a Tagger
So the Dee's won the clearances, almost doubled the centre clearances and Gawn is best on ground, but us winning was the result of Longer just being there?
Bad management is bad management
-
- SS Life Member
- Posts: 3950
- Joined: Thu 24 Sep 2015 3:12pm
- Has thanked: 372 times
- Been thanked: 214 times
Re: Billy has a Tagger
We lose win Hickey plays, our mids play better with Billy in ruck!!!!!SydneySainter wrote: ↑Wed 04 Jul 2018 11:32amSo the Dee's won the clearances, almost doubled the centre clearances and Gawn is best on ground, but us winning was the result of Longer just being there?
Simple!!!!!
Hickey has hardly played in a win since 2016, almost 2 season!!!!!
We lose when he is in Ruck, push all the other stats you like, that's the one the matters!!!!!
'Cause StoneCold Said So'!!!!!
We will be great again once Billy is back playing!!!!!
The 'Last Post', it's the gift that keeps giving
We will be great again once Billy is back playing!!!!!
The 'Last Post', it's the gift that keeps giving
- samuraisaint
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 5938
- Joined: Sun 25 Sep 2011 3:23pm
- Location: Outside Lucky Burgers
- Has thanked: 861 times
- Been thanked: 801 times
Re: Billy has a Tagger
Which ruckman (or ruckmen) played against Richmond at Etihad last year? Honest question - that was one of the most dominant displays by our mids for years against the eventual premiers - I can't remember and can't be bothered checking.stonecold wrote: ↑Wed 04 Jul 2018 11:38amWe lose win Hickey plays, our mids play better with Billy in ruck!!!!!SydneySainter wrote: ↑Wed 04 Jul 2018 11:32amSo the Dee's won the clearances, almost doubled the centre clearances and Gawn is best on ground, but us winning was the result of Longer just being there?
Simple!!!!!
Hickey has hardly played in a win since 2016, almost 2 season!!!!!
We lose when he is in Ruck, push all the other stats you like, that's the one the matters!!!!!
Your friendly neighbourhood samurai.
-
- SS Life Member
- Posts: 3950
- Joined: Thu 24 Sep 2015 3:12pm
- Has thanked: 372 times
- Been thanked: 214 times
Re: Billy has a Tagger
Easy, we won, so the answer is: Billy!!!!!samuraisaint wrote: ↑Wed 04 Jul 2018 12:13pmWhich ruckman (or ruckmen) played against Richmond at Etihad last year? Honest question - that was one of the most dominant displays by our mids for years against the eventual premiers - I can't remember and can't be bothered checking.stonecold wrote: ↑Wed 04 Jul 2018 11:38amWe lose win Hickey plays, our mids play better with Billy in ruck!!!!!SydneySainter wrote: ↑Wed 04 Jul 2018 11:32amSo the Dee's won the clearances, almost doubled the centre clearances and Gawn is best on ground, but us winning was the result of Longer just being there?
Simple!!!!!
Hickey has hardly played in a win since 2016, almost 2 season!!!!!
We lose when he is in Ruck, push all the other stats you like, that's the one the matters!!!!!
'Cause StoneCold Said So'!!!!!
We will be great again once Billy is back playing!!!!!
The 'Last Post', it's the gift that keeps giving
We will be great again once Billy is back playing!!!!!
The 'Last Post', it's the gift that keeps giving
- rodgerfox
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 9059
- Joined: Wed 10 Mar 2004 9:10am
- Has thanked: 425 times
- Been thanked: 327 times
Re: Billy has a Tagger
I just did a massive post on the stats comparison between when Longer plays, and when Hickey plays.stonecold wrote: ↑Wed 04 Jul 2018 11:38amWe lose win Hickey plays, our mids play better with Billy in ruck!!!!!SydneySainter wrote: ↑Wed 04 Jul 2018 11:32amSo the Dee's won the clearances, almost doubled the centre clearances and Gawn is best on ground, but us winning was the result of Longer just being there?
Simple!!!!!
Hickey has hardly played in a win since 2016, almost 2 season!!!!!
We lose when he is in Ruck, push all the other stats you like, that's the one the matters!!!!!
I looked at Total Disposals (+ and - the opposotion), Inside 50s, Hitouts, Clearances, Points For and Points Against.
There are no patterns really. There are no real patterns between winning in those areas, and us winning the game.
So I think it's simplistic to think that Longer improves us. I think many other factors explain why we won, and why we don't - and it seems that both our ruckmen are so limited, that it's almost irrelevant which one plays.
The biggest factor is how we enter our F50.
Round Result %I50s Goal
R15 Win 36
R11 Loss 29.2
R1 Win 27.1
R10 Loss 25
R13 Win 19
R9 Loss 18.2
R8 Loss 17.4
R6 Loss 16.7
R7 Loss 16.1
R4 Loss 15.9
R5 Draw 14.9
R3 Loss 13
R12 Loss 12.7
R2 Loss 12.2
As you can see, our wins have directly been linked to efficiency going forward (barring the GWS Draw). Note also that the R10 and R11 games were decent performances against Richmond and West Coast. So basically, if we can go at 19% or higher with Goals per Inside 50 - regardless of who is rucking, we're very competitive.
Worthy of noting, that these figures don't correlate with midfield domination either (ie. Clearances, Disposals, Hitouts etc.).
- rodgerfox
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 9059
- Joined: Wed 10 Mar 2004 9:10am
- Has thanked: 425 times
- Been thanked: 327 times
Re: Billy has a Tagger
Way too simplistic.
We could claim that Joyce is the difference, because he has a 100% win ratio. It simply doesn't work like that.
-
- SS Life Member
- Posts: 3950
- Joined: Thu 24 Sep 2015 3:12pm
- Has thanked: 372 times
- Been thanked: 214 times
Re: Billy has a Tagger
Based on one game?????
Hickledik hasn't played in a St.Kilda win for almost two seasons!!!!!
Sometimes the simple stats say the most obvious Rodger!!!!!
'Cause StoneCold Said So'!!!!!
We will be great again once Billy is back playing!!!!!
The 'Last Post', it's the gift that keeps giving
We will be great again once Billy is back playing!!!!!
The 'Last Post', it's the gift that keeps giving