Is Alan Richardson Actually Up to Snuff?

[Yorkeys]

I thought I heard him on AFL360 last night saying it was six weeks since our last win. It surprised me because I thought it was 12 weeks. Then I remembered wins are not one of his KPIs so why would he keep close track. "Snuff" said?

[saynta]

I thought I heard him on AFL360 last night saying it was six weeks since our last win. It surprised me because I thought it was 12 weeks. Then I remembered wins are not one of his KPIs so why would he keep close track. "Snuff" said?

I presume he meant 6 weeks since the drawn game which wasn't a loss.

[st.byron]

That’s frightening Byron considering we are making noises of no change to the head coach.... scary stuff

The same people who appointed him have to remove him.

[spert]

Speaking from many years experience designing and implementing KPIs at various organisations - the number 1 rule is that KPIs should never be set for factors that are beyond your control.

That defeats the whole purpose of a KPI.

KPIs are about behaviours that lead to a goal.
So as I said, for an organisation with heavy corporate influence, I'd fall over if they set a KPI for the coach specific to win/loss.

Depending how corporate they are, win/loss could potentially be set as an SLA.

If we presume the club executive would follow SMART criteria in a performance managed environment, then you would hope that the senior coach's Win/Loss ratio against a time period would be the cause to generate a significant KPI rather than a SLA. But let's hope something of this order is actually in place down at the club...maybe it's not and we're just presuming they are actually measuring performance? We better get down there quickly.

Are we talking footy or VCE Business Management?

Sorry, been listening to Malcolm Turnbull too long and wandered off-subject. Richo should be given the flick.

[Teflon]

That’s frightening Byron considering we are making noises of no change to the head coach.... scary stuff

The same people who appointed him have to remove him.

THAT is the tes for Lethlean
Those who appointed Richo will look save face; find another out so he’s not removed
Question is: IF SL determines Alan is really a spud does he have the power and goolies to pull the plug?
IF he’s smart and wants a nice CEO role at Saints.....pull the trigger is what you’d do....

[st.byron]

That’s frightening Byron considering we are making noises of no change to the head coach.... scary stuff

The same people who appointed him have to remove him.

THAT is the tes for Lethlean
Those who appointed Richo will look save face; find another out so he’s not removed
Question is: IF SL determines Alan is really a spud does he have the power and goolies to pull the plug?
IF he’s smart and wants a nice CEO role at Saints.....pull the trigger is what you’d do....

I guess it depends on what Lethlean is actually there for. Is he a plant from the Death Star? Does he give a s***. Is he there to actually make a difference? Wasn’t he employed before it all went pear shaped this year? So maybe holding to account they who have steered the ship onto the reef is beyond his remit. Will be revealed I guess.

[SaintPav]

This isn’t an endorsement of Richo but if has lost the players, we would be getting smashed every week. We’ve been relatively competitive considering.

We have issues across the board ranging from coaching and game plan to playing talent, poor skill level, execution and at times effort.

[st.byron]

This isn’t an endorsement of Richo but if has lost the players, we would be getting smashed every week. We’ve been relatively competitive considering.

We have issues across the board ranging from coaching and game plan to playing talent, poor skill level, execution and at times effort.

There are degrees of “lost”. Fair to say there is a lack of deep trust.

[rodgerfox]

This isn’t an endorsement of Richo but if has lost the players, we would be getting smashed every week. We’ve been relatively competitive considering.

We have issues across the board ranging from coaching and game plan to playing talent, poor skill level, execution and at times effort.

There are degrees of “lost”. Fair to say there is a lack of deep trust.

'Trust' in what sense?

Trust in him as a bloke? Or trust in his ability as coach/game plan?

The former is the important one. If he's lost that - the position is untenable. From afar, I don't get that impression at all though.

Richmond players lost faith in Hardwick's plan, but they liked him. So the club harnessed it, and simply changed the game plan.

Collingwood have done similar.


If you have a coach that the players trust as a bloke and will follow, then it's pretty nuts to sack them if the strategy is the real issue.

[Linton Lodger]

That’s frightening Byron considering we are making noises of no change to the head coach.... scary stuff

The same people who appointed him have to remove him.

THAT is the tes for Lethlean
Those who appointed Richo will look save face; find another out so he’s not removed
Question is: IF SL determines Alan is really a spud does he have the power and goolies to pull the plug?
IF he’s smart and wants a nice CEO role at Saints.....pull the trigger is what you’d do....

I would hope Lethlean has been asked to do a full and frank review. If his review found that Richo wasn't cutting it, then you do what you have to do. Otherwise the review is a pantomime. I'm not adverse to Richo been kept if a proper review finds we can move forward with him, but only if that review is competent and has integrity.

Fingers crossed.

[spert]

Seen a lot of managers, execs as well as coaches in my time, who have a good rapport with those under them, but ultimately are not doing the job for the organisation or club etc. Sometimes it's a formula for under-achieving.

[Linton Lodger]

This isn’t an endorsement of Richo but if has lost the players, we would be getting smashed every week. We’ve been relatively competitive considering.

We have issues across the board ranging from coaching and game plan to playing talent, poor skill level, execution and at times effort.

There are degrees of “lost”. Fair to say there is a lack of deep trust.

'Trust' in what sense?

Trust in him as a bloke? Or trust in his ability as coach/game plan?

The former is the important one. If he's lost that - the position is untenable. From afar, I don't get that impression at all though.

Richmond players lost faith in Hardwick's plan, but they liked him. So the club harnessed it, and simply changed the game plan.

Collingwood have done similar.


If you have a coach that the players trust as a bloke and will follow, then it's pretty nuts to sack them if the strategy is the real issue.

Good point on Collingwood, they may have changed personnel around Buckley and done this and that. Yet at the end of the day they've improved due to their change to a better gameplan.

Our disastrous season may be due mainly to gameplan. We know there are issues with it, particularly the connection between our midfield and forward half. If the gameplan we worked on all preseason failed, then it is difficult to change substantially mid season. This happened to Hawthorn last year (they were rank in the first half of that year). They were able to fix it in half a season because they had Clarkson and a core of senior triple premiership players.

Richmond's gameplan was not competitive in 2016, they couldn't do much than tinker with it during the season. Then over the next preseason they completely changed it and win a Premiership with basically the same List and Coach.

Before we sack the Coach or Asst Coaches, we need to work out where we're at and how we got there. Then hopefully what needs to be done will become obvious.

[saynta]

This isn’t an endorsement of Richo but if has lost the players, we would be getting smashed every week. We’ve been relatively competitive considering.

We have issues across the board ranging from coaching and game plan to playing talent, poor skill level, execution and at times effort.

The players actually love Richo, or so I am led to believe.

[Saints43]

Seen a lot of managers, execs as well as coaches in my time, who have a good rapport with those under them, but ultimately are not doing the job for the organisation or club etc. Sometimes it's a formula for under-achieving.

Agreed. And it's not like there's a lot of players at Saints who've been players at successful organisations. They almost have to trust in what they've got. They don't know any better.
Armo, Steven & Gilbo are the only players who've played in a decent team. And two of them were just kids.
I think the problem at St Kilda is almost nobody there knows what best practice even looks like let alone know how to implement it.

[rodgerfox]

Seen a lot of managers, execs as well as coaches in my time, who have a good rapport with those under them, but ultimately are not doing the job for the organisation or club etc. Sometimes it's a formula for under-achieving.

Yeah, obviously 'rapport' isn't enough.

But if you're a good leader, in terms of your players doing what you ask of them - then that's a difficult skill to get, and one you need. So if he has that (and I wouldn't have a clue if he does or not), why would you sack him?

If he's able to get the players to follow him - then all that is needed is a good formula to follow.


That was the theory behind Hardwick and Buckley keeping their jobs.

[rodgerfox]

Seen a lot of managers, execs as well as coaches in my time, who have a good rapport with those under them, but ultimately are not doing the job for the organisation or club etc. Sometimes it's a formula for under-achieving.

Agreed. And it's not like there's a lot of players at Saints who've been players at successful organisations. They almost have to trust in what they've got. They don't know any better.
Armo, Steven & Gilbo are the only players who've played in a decent team. And two of them were just kids.
I think the problem at St Kilda is almost nobody there knows what best practice even looks like let alone know how to implement it.

Kingsley played in a flag. And Playfair was at Sydney in 2012 as an Assistant. And McGlynn was at Sydney in 2012 too.

But aside from that, the club isn't dripping with premiership experience.

[Teflon]

This isn’t an endorsement of Richo but if has lost the players, we would be getting smashed every week. We’ve been relatively competitive considering.

We have issues across the board ranging from coaching and game plan to playing talent, poor skill level, execution and at times effort.

Who knows if he’s lost the players?
The facts are our transition from defence to bombing forward 50 has been a recognised issue for some years - honesty how structured do our forward entries really look compared to a Sydney et al?

Some will point the finger at the forward coach? Defensive coach etc but surely the Head coach has an absolute responsibility to fix that??? IF that means going to the Board demanding money to get quality in and Reno e some assistant spuds the Richardson’s had ample time to mount and win that argument. The fact no change has occurred surely sees him accountable and he can’t skate away from that.

IF players are found to have no confidence (Riewoldt remarks seem to support that) then he goes

[SaintPav]

Seen a lot of managers, execs as well as coaches in my time, who have a good rapport with those under them, but ultimately are not doing the job for the organisation or club etc. Sometimes it's a formula for under-achieving.

Agreed. And it's not like there's a lot of players at Saints who've been players at successful organisations. They almost have to trust in what they've got. They don't know any better.
Armo, Steven & Gilbo are the only players who've played in a decent team. And two of them were just kids.
I think the problem at St Kilda is almost nobody there knows what best practice even looks like let alone know how to implement it.

Kingsley played in a flag. And Playfair was at Sydney in 2012 as an Assistant. And McGlynn was at Sydney in 2012 too.

But aside from that, the club isn't dripping with premiership experience.

One flag in 145 years.

Chicken and egg.

[SaintPav]

This isn’t an endorsement of Richo but if has lost the players, we would be getting smashed every week. We’ve been relatively competitive considering.

We have issues across the board ranging from coaching and game plan to playing talent, poor skill level, execution and at times effort.

Who knows if he’s lost the players?
The facts are our transition from defence to bombing forward 50 has been a recognised issue for some years - honesty how structured do our forward entries really look compared to a Sydney et al?

Some will point the finger at the forward coach? Defensive coach etc but surely the Head coach has an absolute responsibility to fix that??? IF that means going to the Board demanding money to get quality in and Reno e some assistant spuds the Richardson’s had ample time to mount and win that argument. The fact no change has occurred surely sees him accountable and he can’t skate away from that.

IF players are found to have no confidence (Riewoldt remarks seem to support that) then he goes

I think you should just do the review and make the recommendations.

[Yorkeys]

Another thread reports the President as saying Alan is up to snuff so the problem lies elsewhere, even though he doesn't know what it is; and of course not to pre-empt Simon's review. So Simon would be wise , if he wants an quiet life, to say it is assistants and director of coaching where improvement is needed and maybe even throw the captain under a bus. I would be nervous about my means of earning a living if I were Danny or Adam or a 50 to 100 game player that never looks like getting a Brownlow vote. Great place if you are a youngster looking for opportunity though, and don't mind Alan for a few more years. Free agents' managers will smell the money and the Saints desperation to bring in new talent with no second round pick. You never know though it might work if good people are brought in and some elite talent lands at Moorabbin.

[Teflon]

This isn’t an endorsement of Richo but if has lost the players, we would be getting smashed every week. We’ve been relatively competitive considering.

We have issues across the board ranging from coaching and game plan to playing talent, poor skill level, execution and at times effort.

Who knows if he’s lost the players?
The facts are our transition from defence to bombing forward 50 has been a recognised issue for some years - honesty how structured do our forward entries really look compared to a Sydney et al?

Some will point the finger at the forward coach? Defensive coach etc but surely the Head coach has an absolute responsibility to fix that??? IF that means going to the Board demanding money to get quality in and Reno e some assistant spuds the Richardson’s had ample time to mount and win that argument. The fact no change has occurred surely sees him accountable and he can’t skate away from that.

IF players are found to have no confidence (Riewoldt remarks seem to support that) then he goes

I think you should just do the review and make the recommendations.

Let’s skip review and go straight to recs...

After 5 years I’ve seen enough..

[SaintPav]

This isn’t an endorsement of Richo but if has lost the players, we would be getting smashed every week. We’ve been relatively competitive considering.

We have issues across the board ranging from coaching and game plan to playing talent, poor skill level, execution and at times effort.

Who knows if he’s lost the players?
The facts are our transition from defence to bombing forward 50 has been a recognised issue for some years - honesty how structured do our forward entries really look compared to a Sydney et al?

Some will point the finger at the forward coach? Defensive coach etc but surely the Head coach has an absolute responsibility to fix that??? IF that means going to the Board demanding money to get quality in and Reno e some assistant spuds the Richardson’s had ample time to mount and win that argument. The fact no change has occurred surely sees him accountable and he can’t skate away from that.

IF players are found to have no confidence (Riewoldt remarks seem to support that) then he goes

I think you should just do the review and make the recommendations.

Let’s skip review and go straight to recs...

After 5 years I’ve seen enough..

You’re all over this.

You’re the man.

[Teflon]

This isn’t an endorsement of Richo but if has lost the players, we would be getting smashed every week. We’ve been relatively competitive considering.

We have issues across the board ranging from coaching and game plan to playing talent, poor skill level, execution and at times effort.

Who knows if he’s lost the players?
The facts are our transition from defence to bombing forward 50 has been a recognised issue for some years - honesty how structured do our forward entries really look compared to a Sydney et al?

Some will point the finger at the forward coach? Defensive coach etc but surely the Head coach has an absolute responsibility to fix that??? IF that means going to the Board demanding money to get quality in and Reno e some assistant spuds the Richardson’s had ample time to mount and win that argument. The fact no change has occurred surely sees him accountable and he can’t skate away from that.

IF players are found to have no confidence (Riewoldt remarks seem to support that) then he goes

I think you should just do the review and make the recommendations.

Let’s skip review and go straight to recs...

After 5 years I’ve seen enough..

You’re all over this.

You’re the man.

I knew it but thanks for affirmation
I’m a woman by the way..

[chico2001]

Maybe one of "richo's" KPI's be that he ensures that the assistant coaches develop a good game plan and the various strategies that go with it. Could that be it? Where would "lethers" look then?
So what happens if the assistants are made redundant? what then Rodger? Would the new assistant coaches have KPI's? Nothing that would win games mind you but something, anything. Maybe win a "best dressed " award twice a year which is common on a corporate Friday now or....... front up to a team meeting with a funky hairstyle.

So who is accountable for defence to forward transition? Adam Kingsley is highly regarded isnt he? What about our "enry" he has a good record as well and coming from Sydney no less. Then there were 5 .....so who goes then?

[rodgerfox]

Seen a lot of managers, execs as well as coaches in my time, who have a good rapport with those under them, but ultimately are not doing the job for the organisation or club etc. Sometimes it's a formula for under-achieving.

Agreed. And it's not like there's a lot of players at Saints who've been players at successful organisations. They almost have to trust in what they've got. They don't know any better.
Armo, Steven & Gilbo are the only players who've played in a decent team. And two of them were just kids.
I think the problem at St Kilda is almost nobody there knows what best practice even looks like let alone know how to implement it.

Kingsley played in a flag. And Playfair was at Sydney in 2012 as an Assistant. And McGlynn was at Sydney in 2012 too.

But aside from that, the club isn't dripping with premiership experience.

One flag in 145 years.

Chicken and egg.

I don't understand the relevance of that to be honest.

What happened in a little Mickey Mouse sporting comp 100 years ago has literally zero relevance to how football franchises are structured these days in the entertainment industry that is the AFL.

The same people work at the same places, and simply shuffle around year to year. Players are effectively leased from the AFL, coaches are shuffled from club to club on a yearly basis and administrators are prepared by the AFL and then appointed at clubs on almost a rotation.

What makes a club win a flag? The stars aligning in terms of getting good people that work well together, at a club at the same time. Then add a sprinkle of luck on top.

I really don't buy this whole 'St Kilda have won one flag in 150 years so that explains why they're playing s*** footy right now' thing. It's like believing in Santa Claus or god. It's just fairytale stuff.


Who is at the club now that was there 100 years ago? Who is at the club now that was there 20 years ago! There's only a handful that were even there 10 years ago FFS!

The club is based at Seaford, plays home games at Docklands, is called St Kilda but hasn't been based there for about 60 years, wears a different jumper every week, has 9 full-time coaches of whom only 1 has ever played for St Kilda (and he also played at another club anyway), and in the last game there were 8 players in the team that came from other clubs. The CEO and the head of footy or whatever he is called came from the AFL and have had literally zero to do with St Kilda.

And we're supposed to believe that what is happening today in an organisation that is run by the AFL, is somehow linked to what happened to a club that joined the VFL as a junior club about 140 years ago? St Kilda is not even in the VFL anymore.


I just don't get it.