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By golly, I can't remember a more transparent coach in all my time following VFL/AFL footy. He's in his fifth year of coaching and the jury still seems to be out on whether he knows the tricks of the trade or not. After our miraculous great escape from losing to one of the worst sides in the competition, a relatively new consensus seems to be gaining traction that Richo hasn't been the problem and it's the coaching staff and his assistants who are the incompetent ones. There seems to be supporters who are happy to see him follow on for the next two years, because we need to show patience, like Richmond and Collingwood have for their respective coaches.
If this latest excuse for him has any credibility, then it simply doesn't seem like there's a enough proof in the pudding to suggest that he's a good coach or a bad coach. I just don't know what to believe anymore.
The club is going to have to make some hard calls by the end of the season.
Curb your enthusiasm - you’re a St.Kilda supporter!!
Sainternist wrote: ↑Wed 20 Jun 2018 6:17pm
By golly, I can't remember a more transparent coach in all my time following VFL/AFL footy. He's in his fifth year of coaching and the jury still seems to be out on whether he knows the tricks of the trade or not. After our miraculous great escape from losing to one of the worst sides in the competition, a relatively new consensus seems to be gaining traction that Richo hasn't been the problem and it's the coaching staff and his assistants who are the incompetent ones. There seems to be supporters who are happy to see him follow on for the next two years, because we need to show patience, like Richmond and Collingwood have for their respective coaches.
If this latest excuse for him has any credibility, then it simply doesn't seem like there's a enough proof in the pudding to suggest that he's a good coach or a bad coach. I just don't know what to believe anymore.
The club is going to have to make some hard calls by the end of the season.
Whether you are right or wrong, I think the club is in an unenviable position.
Easier for it to go down the Richmond route and provide Richo with better support rather than sack him.
I think the realists on here are aware of that rather than as you say " a relatively new consensus", that Richo wasn't part of the problem
Of course he is, but I believe that the club is still thinking that he can be part of the resurrection/solution.
Posters indicate that the Hardwick/Buckley scenarios are similar and if we follow that then ...magic happens and we make the 8 or even top 4.
Only problem is that Hardwick had Richmond into the finals the 3 years ( bar 2016) before winning the GF. In 2016 they finished 13th but still had 8 wins. So in 6 years he got them into the finals 4 times with one flag and they are close to favourites for the flag this year. He has also coached them to a winning percentage of about 50%. They therefore cannot go down the Richmond route- no comparison what soever. Another poster raised the "Richmond route"....in another thread, it wont happen.
Buckley has also got the Pies into the finals twice and has a winning coaching record of 50% thereabouts, this coaching renaissance has also been used as something for Richardson followers to hang their hat on. Once again...Cant compare either, as Buckleys record is much better and they are also in the running for a top 4 spot in 2018.
What part of "Richardson cant coach" dont St Kilda management, members and followers understand?.......he is a dud as head coach.
chico2001 wrote: ↑Wed 20 Jun 2018 7:00pm
There is proof in the pudding.
Posters indicate that the Hardwick/Buckley scenarios are similar and if we follow that then ...magic happens and we make the 8 or even top 4.
Only problem is that Hardwick had Richmond into the finals the 3 years ( bar 2016) before winning the GF. In 2016 they finished 13th but still had 8 wins. So in 6 years he got them into the finals 4 times with one flag and they are close to favourites for the flag this year. He has also coached them to a winning percentage of about 50%. They therefore cannot go down the Richmond route- no comparison what soever. Another poster raised the "Richmond route"....in another thread, it wont happen.
Buckley has also got the Pies into the finals twice and has a winning coaching record of 50% thereabouts, this coaching renaissance has also been used as something for Richardson followers to hang their hat on. Once again...Cant compare either, as Buckleys record is much better and they are also in the running for a top 4 spot in 2018.
What part of "Richardson cant coach" dont St Kilda management, members and followers understand?.......he is a dud as head coach.
Bucks did take over a premiership team though and they did get worse and worse every year until now.
So he probably had a few more aces up his sleeve than Richo
chico2001 wrote: ↑Wed 20 Jun 2018 7:00pm
There is proof in the pudding.
Posters indicate that the Hardwick/Buckley scenarios are similar and if we follow that then ...magic happens and we make the 8 or even top 4.
Only problem is that Hardwick had Richmond into the finals the 3 years ( bar 2016) before winning the GF. In 2016 they finished 13th but still had 8 wins. So in 6 years he got them into the finals 4 times with one flag and they are close to favourites for the flag this year. He has also coached them to a winning percentage of about 50%. They therefore cannot go down the Richmond route- no comparison what soever. Another poster raised the "Richmond route"....in another thread, it wont happen.
Buckley has also got the Pies into the finals twice and has a winning coaching record of 50% thereabouts, this coaching renaissance has also been used as something for Richardson followers to hang their hat on. Once again...Cant compare either, as Buckleys record is much better and they are also in the running for a top 4 spot in 2018.
What part of "Richardson cant coach" dont St Kilda management, members and followers understand?.......he is a dud as head coach.
I don't think people are comparing the Saints with Richmond and Collingwood.
I think people are comparing the strategy behind keeping a coach that has certain traits and skills that are considered desirable for a head coach and hard to come by - and filling the skill gaps that may exist with new assistant coaches.
The thing that has struck me about Richo during this season is he seems to have kept cool in a crisis. He's looked focused, proactive and determined on game day with him coming down to the bench when things haven't been going well.
Cairnsman wrote: ↑Wed 20 Jun 2018 9:49pm
The thing that has struck me about Richo during this season is he seems to have kept cool in a crisis. He's looked focused, proactive and determined on game day with him coming down to the bench when things haven't been going well.
He's always presented well and seems a very likeable man.
I'm more interested in results and so should be the club. I do genuinely hope he can turn it around, but it hasn't looked great so far this season.
Nope he’s not up to it. Lacks respect from playing group. Not trustworthy when hard calls have to be made. One dimensional as a tactician. Solid in some ways but uninspiring. Needs to be moved on. We will go nowhere with him.
st.byron wrote: ↑Wed 20 Jun 2018 10:54pm
Nope he’s not up to it. Lacks respect from playing group. Not trustworthy when hard calls have to be made. One dimensional as a tactician. Solid in some ways but uninspiring. Needs to be moved on. We will go nowhere with him.
Where has it been reported Richo lacks respect from the players and is not trustworthy?
At this level of sport, you need to go on results, and Richo has a terrible record in his tenure as coach. Most of the indicators are very poor, and I don't know how the club can justify keeping him if they want to go forward.
spert wrote: ↑Thu 21 Jun 2018 8:12am
At this level of sport, you need to go on results, and Richo has a terrible record in his tenure as coach. Most of the indicators are very poor, and I don't know how the club can justify keeping him if they want to go forward.
st.byron wrote: ↑Wed 20 Jun 2018 10:54pm
Nope he’s not up to it. Lacks respect from playing group. Not trustworthy when hard calls have to be made. One dimensional as a tactician. Solid in some ways but uninspiring. Needs to be moved on. We will go nowhere with him.
Where has it been reported Richo lacks respect from the players and is not trustworthy?
He's making crap up. Love the one dimensional tactician call...changes he made late in the game last week took us from 40 points down to winning the game! People see what they want to see, on both sides of the argument.
st.byron wrote: ↑Wed 20 Jun 2018 10:54pm
Nope he’s not up to it. Lacks respect from playing group. Not trustworthy when hard calls have to be made. One dimensional as a tactician. Solid in some ways but uninspiring. Needs to be moved on. We will go nowhere with him.
Where has it been reported Richo lacks respect from the players and is not trustworthy?
He's making crap up. Love the one dimensional tactician call...changes he made late in the game last week took us from 40 points down to winning the game! People see what they want to see, on both sides of the argument.
Nope not making crap up and it hasn’t been reported. Info comes from people who have worked with AR one and one and with the playing group. When hard calls have to be made - Richardson goes missing. Players know it and don’t trust accordingly.
spert wrote: ↑Thu 21 Jun 2018 8:12am
At this level of sport, you need to go on results, and Richo has a terrible record in his tenure as coach. Most of the indicators are very poor, and I don't know how the club can justify keeping him if they want to go forward.
Is Richo up to snuff? For me, it's a resounding no!
Regardless of the club's excuses, the reality is that he's still under contract for two more seasons, the club can't afford to pay out his contract prematurely and they would look like bigger amateurs then they already do if they were to sack him now, before his new contract even came into effect. So naturally, they make up any excuse possible to justify why they needlessly gave Richo this extension and why they're still confident that he's the man for the job.
Trout's role has allegedly been assessed and they've apparently decided that he's not the man for job moving forward. Even though I'm no Trout fan, I think it's interesting that Trout was no longer under contract when the club just happened to make that decision, especially when they were pretty confident of the list he's drafted at the start of the season.
Sainternist wrote: ↑Wed 20 Jun 2018 6:17pm
By golly, I can't remember a more transparent coach in all my time following VFL/AFL footy. He's in his fifth year of coaching and the jury still seems to be out on whether he knows the tricks of the trade or not. After our miraculous great escape from losing to one of the worst sides in the competition, a relatively new consensus seems to be gaining traction that Richo hasn't been the problem and it's the coaching staff and his assistants who are the incompetent ones. There seems to be supporters who are happy to see him follow on for the next two years, because we need to show patience, like Richmond and Collingwood have for their respective coaches.
If this latest excuse for him has any credibility, then it simply doesn't seem like there's a enough proof in the pudding to suggest that he's a good coach or a bad coach. I just don't know what to believe anymore.
The club is going to have to make some hard calls by the end of the season.
All I know is that Bomber Thompson was under all types of pressure in say, 2006. Two years later he's eating his lunch during games
We may have had some coaches in the past that might have even won a premiership (eventually), had it not been 'the thing to do' at the time to sack coaches. Ken Sheldon and Stan Alves come to mind. Understanding that Ken mightn't have had the cattle, and Stan was sacked by the players (IMHO)
So, for the next two years, for me at least it's "In Alan, I trust"
Sainternist wrote: ↑Wed 20 Jun 2018 6:17pm
By golly, I can't remember a more transparent coach in all my time following VFL/AFL footy. He's in his fifth year of coaching and the jury still seems to be out on whether he knows the tricks of the trade or not. After our miraculous great escape from losing to one of the worst sides in the competition, a relatively new consensus seems to be gaining traction that Richo hasn't been the problem and it's the coaching staff and his assistants who are the incompetent ones. There seems to be supporters who are happy to see him follow on for the next two years, because we need to show patience, like Richmond and Collingwood have for their respective coaches.
If this latest excuse for him has any credibility, then it simply doesn't seem like there's a enough proof in the pudding to suggest that he's a good coach or a bad coach. I just don't know what to believe anymore.
The club is going to have to make some hard calls by the end of the season.
All I know is that Bomber Thompson was under all types of pressure in say, 2006. Two years later he's eating his lunch during games
We may have had some coaches in the past that might have even won a premiership (eventually), had it not been 'the thing to do' at the time to sack coaches. Ken Sheldon and Stan Alves come to mind. Understanding that Ken mightn't have had the cattle, and Stan was sacked by the players (IMHO)
So, for the next two years, for me at least it's "In Alan, I trust"
Bomber had taken the Cats to the finals in 2004, 2005 and they just missed the finals in 2006. He had those runs on the board. Richo's greatest claim in fame in 5 years is that we "almost" made the finals in 2016 and to a lesser extent, 2017. Now we're competing to avoid the spoon.
Sainternist wrote: ↑Wed 20 Jun 2018 6:17pm
By golly, I can't remember a more transparent coach in all my time following VFL/AFL footy. He's in his fifth year of coaching and the jury still seems to be out on whether he knows the tricks of the trade or not. After our miraculous great escape from losing to one of the worst sides in the competition, a relatively new consensus seems to be gaining traction that Richo hasn't been the problem and it's the coaching staff and his assistants who are the incompetent ones. There seems to be supporters who are happy to see him follow on for the next two years, because we need to show patience, like Richmond and Collingwood have for their respective coaches.
If this latest excuse for him has any credibility, then it simply doesn't seem like there's a enough proof in the pudding to suggest that he's a good coach or a bad coach. I just don't know what to believe anymore.
The club is going to have to make some hard calls by the end of the season.
All I know is that Bomber Thompson was under all types of pressure in say, 2006. Two years later he's eating his lunch during games
We may have had some coaches in the past that might have even won a premiership (eventually), had it not been 'the thing to do' at the time to sack coaches. Ken Sheldon and Stan Alves come to mind. Understanding that Ken mightn't have had the cattle, and Stan was sacked by the players (IMHO)
So, for the next two years, for me at least it's "In Alan, I trust"
Bomber had taken the Cats to the finals in 2004, 2005 and they just missed the finals in 2006. He had those runs on the board. Richo's greatest claim in fame in 5 years is that we "almost" made the finals in 2016 and to a lesser extent, 2017. Now we're competing to avoid the spoon.
Apples and Oranges.
Agree with the runs on the board, and you could say that Stan had runs on the board too, but players affect the outcome (as was arguably the case for Bomber until the club stuck phat), and if Alan has lost the players, then yes get rid of him...but increasingly, this doesn't seem to be the case
spert wrote: ↑Thu 21 Jun 2018 8:12am
At this level of sport, you need to go on results, and Richo has a terrible record in his tenure as coach. Most of the indicators are very poor, and I don't know how the club can justify keeping him if they want to go forward.
What are his KPIs?
What do you reckon??
I have no idea.
But I would 100% guarantee that very few clubs in world sport would set a coaches KPIs as wins and losses.
SydneySainter wrote: ↑Thu 21 Jun 2018 1:19pm
Is Richo up to snuff? For me, it's a resounding no!
Regardless of the club's excuses, the reality is that he's still under contract for two more seasons, the club can't afford to pay out his contract prematurely and they would look like bigger amateurs then they already do if they were to sack him now, before his new contract even came into effect. So naturally, they make up any excuse possible to justify why they needlessly gave Richo this extension and why they're still confident that he's the man for the job.
Trout's role has allegedly been assessed and they've apparently decided that he's not the man for job moving forward. Even though I'm no Trout fan, I think it's interesting that Trout was no longer under contract when the club just happened to make that decision, especially when they were pretty confident of the list he's drafted at the start of the season.
If the St kilda FC dont have wins/losses as a major KPI if not the No 1 KPI then they are confirming what a pack of idiots they really are. No wonder this club is the laughing stock of the AFL.
Check out English soccer club Managers who dont win on a regular basis ROFLMO. The average tenure is about 18 months for a Manager. Ten managers have gone this season already. I am not even going to waste my time looking at the NBA
chico2001 wrote: ↑Thu 21 Jun 2018 2:13pm
If the St kilda FC dont have wins/losses as a major KPI if not the No 1 KPI then they are confirming what a pack of idiots they really are. No wonder this club is the laughing stock of the AFL.
Check out English soccer club Managers who dont win on a regular basis ROFLMO. The average tenure is about 18 months for a Manager. Ten managers have gone this season already. I am not even going to waste my time looking at the NBA
what f**cking planet are you on?
So what is the acceptable win/loss then?
Does Clarkson go if he can't make finals two years in a row?
Should he have got the sack after his first contract?
Lyon obviously will get sacked?
What is the KPI regarding winning that would be set?
The President said that the side is a top 4 side, if anyone can recall that from early in the season then the pass mark would be about 15/16 wins. But forget that, the side should have been aiming for a top 8 finish or about 12 wins. None of that has happened.
