As List Manager for 2018 what would you do.

[Impatient Sainter]

We dont have a lot of trade value but a ruckman could have some value?

If we got a reasonable offer on Paddy I would strongly consider trading him as I believe Battle has gone past him already. Battle, Bruce & Membrey will be a much more potent attack going forward.

The other I would consider moving on would be Dunstan, we just have too many slow mids.

[older saint]

Look to see if we could grab 2nd rounder for Newness. Bulldogs looking for a ruck perhaps they might take Hickey for say 3rd rounder and steak knife picks back and forth? Also shop Savage but may not be worth much

Bruce also on table otherwise needs to become a CHB as too many bigs.

Delist / retire:

Stevens
Roberton (hope not but don't mess with heart its only footy)
Armitage - retire
Wright
Pierce
Lonie

Freeman to Rookie list ( if eligible to do so)

Gilbert versatility may keep him around. Brown also a ?

Reality is I cant see any FA coming to us next season at this rate.
Recruit SILK with first pick ( probably 3 perhaps 4) Ideally an on baller

[Teflon]

Should be Armo and Gilbert's last year
The same tools who want to get rid of Seb also wanted to get rid of half the side like Webster and Dunstan , they also called for Rices head before he even played a game you have no idea

According to the same posters we couldn't get No 1 and number 3 picks right so exactly how do we get a mid 20s pick for Seb and turn it into a champion pick????? NFI you lot

Good call super
Who are they?

[saynta]

I think we need to remember that Ross is and always has been a bit of a B grader who surprised everyone with a pretty good season.

That's not to say he's no good, it's just that he is what he is.

We overrate him because he won a B&F in a shitty side during a shitty year.

Required player definitely.

Overrate him. Not me mate.

Underrated by heaps on here who are still anxious to see him fail.

Some even appear to be willing him to fail.

He won a best and fairest because that was what he was and it really wasn't a s*** year,

well, not compared to this year.

Of course he is a required player.

Steven and Seb turned the tide on Saturday. I was there and he certainly deserved the 9 points awarded by the coaches.

I piss myself laughing when I see the haters repeatedly excluded them from their best 5 players each week. NFI.

Coaches votes for the game:

"Four Saints have been rewarded by the AFL Coaches’ Association in the Saints’ come-from-behind victory over the Gold Coast Suns.

Midfield pair Seb Ross and Jack Steven each polled nine votes in the Shadforth Financial Group AFLCA Champion Player of the Year Award, while David Armitage and match-winner Jade Gresham both polled three votes.

Ross was the leading ball-winner on the ground, picking up 33 disposals, including 13 contested possessions, as well as laying seven tackles.

The 25-year-old was influential in the centre, and he formed part of the midfield group that annihilated the Suns in the clearances 54-21."

[chico2001]

I think it would be better to get McCartin out to CHF for the rest of the year and see how he goes, that might happen if Bruce comes back...whenever he does. But some of the older players have to go, next year they will be a year older and a bit slower. One of the ruckmen has to go and Marshall can be the back up. With some luck Roberton might get back...hope so. Changes have to be made because 2 wins half way through the year does not cut it. Can point the finger at the coaches all you like but the players have to perform.

[Sainternist]

Forget trading Ross. It makes no sense.

'I'm more interested to know people's thoughts on putting Billings onto the trading block?

[elizabethr]

Get Freeman off the list .
Can't even get a grab in the VFL.
Waste of space!

[Enrico_Misso]

I'd head up to the Northern Territory on a fact finding mission till the worst of the winter was over.
Have an affair with Lethlean to keep my job safe.
Then I'd read the projected draft order in The Age and Herals Scum, juggle them slightly and submit it as MY fully researched plan.

Job done!

[bigred]

IF I was the list manager I would do the following

Delist
Armitage
Wright
Minchington
Roberton
K.Stevens
Gilbert

Trade
Ross (First Round Pick)
Newnes (Second Round Pick)

Recruit
MCGOVERN
*JOSH KELLY (2019) - forget Gaff and Sloane

Draft
Pick 4: Walsh or B.Smith (Tough True Mids)
Pick 15(Ross): Speed
Round 2: Best Available
Round 4: Tallest Player available - Ruck
Rookie Draft: Mature aged Midfielder
Cat B Basketballer guy as ruckman

Replaces Slowness with Speed. Frees up cap for mcgovern and kelly.

INS: B.Smith,Quality Speed, Rnd 4, 2 rookies, McGovern
OUTS: Ross, Newnes, Gilbert and co.

if we were able to achieve he above and theres no reason why not then 2020 would be a very good year

1. Delist Armitage
He is useless in every way. People will say we need his seniorship/leadership. Do we? I think not. I think its hindering us. we are in this position because of coaches and senior players. Clean them out

2. Trade Ross and Newnes
We have too many inside mids. Ross has value. we need to act now. Dunstan and Steele will
be better players but Ross atm has the value. Ross also as a leader has been horrific. get him
out for a round 1 pick.

Newnes has value. Again his leadership is horrific and is best suited forward butwe dont need him
there. could get a good pick for him. Enduarance king who cares. he is shite.

3. Geary steps down as captain
obvious reasons.

Ok So were you drunk when you typed that out?

Incredibly disrespectful to Armitage and Geary.
If you were a list manager, you would be a bad one.

[SMS]

We may rue beating gold coast on weekend.

Ffs we may have thrown away getting walsh or Smith who we desperately need.

IF WE RECRUIT MAX KING I WILL LOSE.MY s***

Pick 3/4:. Smith - Walsh - Rankine or Collier Dawkins
SERIOUSLY IF WE.CHOOSE ANOTHER TALL ESPECIALLY KINGS WHO LOOK REALLY s*** AND SLOW.

[Crossy66]

We may rue beating gold coast on weekend.

Ffs we may have thrown away getting walsh or Smith who we desperately need.

IF WE RECRUIT MAX KING I WILL LOSE.MY s***

Pick 3/4:. Smith - Walsh - Rankine or Collier Dawkins
SERIOUSLY IF WE.CHOOSE ANOTHER TALL ESPECIALLY KINGS WHO LOOK REALLY s*** AND SLOW.

I think we would benefit more by winning more games this season than losing. I dont share your view that tanking is a good idea.

[saynta]

We may rue beating gold coast on weekend.

Ffs we may have thrown away getting walsh or Smith who we desperately need.

IF WE RECRUIT MAX KING I WILL LOSE.MY s***

Pick 3/4:. Smith - Walsh - Rankine or Collier Dawkins
SERIOUSLY IF WE.CHOOSE ANOTHER TALL ESPECIALLY KINGS WHO LOOK REALLY s*** AND SLOW.

Shouldn't you be in school?

[Teflon]

We may rue beating gold coast on weekend.

Ffs we may have thrown away getting walsh or Smith who we desperately need.

IF WE RECRUIT MAX KING I WILL LOSE.MY s***

Pick 3/4:. Smith - Walsh - Rankine or Collier Dawkins
SERIOUSLY IF WE.CHOOSE ANOTHER TALL ESPECIALLY KINGS WHO LOOK REALLY s*** AND SLOW.

I think we would benefit more by winning more games this season than losing. I dont share your view that tanking is a good idea.

And I don’t share your view that limping to 4-5 wins this does anything remotely at all to take this club forward , infact I’d argue it takes us back to an even worse spot than we are in now
It’s this kind of short term thinking that sees us hang on to mediocrity

[mad saint guy]

Delist/Retire (or trade even if it's just a 4th round pick upgrade):

Lonie
Wright
Stevens
Gilbert
Armitage
Brown

Trade as long as we can improve our draft position by a reasonable amount (keep if no interest):

Newnes
Weller
Savage
Longer or Hickey

Throw bags of cash at any free agent who would improve our side (although I doubt we land any this year):

Gaff
McGovern
Lynch
Sloane

And aggressively trade to get back into the top 20 of this year's draft. Swap our future first rounder for a top 10 pick this year if possible.

Possible 2019 starting 22

B: Webster, Austin, Rice
HB: Coffield, Carlisle, Roberton
C: Sinclair, Steele, Acres
HF: Billings, Battle, Long
F: Gresham, McCartin, Membrey

Foll: Hickey, Steven, Ross
Int: Clark, Dunstan, Freeman, Pick 3

[fugazi]

I'd be enquiring after Melbourne's Jaidyn Hunt.
Not getting a game at the moment but he has huge pace and intensity.

Keep Ross.

Delist .: Lonie, Weller, Koby Stevens,
Trade: Longer or Hickey : take your pick

Godfather deal: De Goey or Gaff

[Crossy66]

We may rue beating gold coast on weekend.

Ffs we may have thrown away getting walsh or Smith who we desperately need.

IF WE RECRUIT MAX KING I WILL LOSE.MY s***

Pick 3/4:. Smith - Walsh - Rankine or Collier Dawkins
SERIOUSLY IF WE.CHOOSE ANOTHER TALL ESPECIALLY KINGS WHO LOOK REALLY s*** AND SLOW.

I think we would benefit more by winning more games this season than losing. I dont share your view that tanking is a good idea.

And I don’t share your view that limping to 4-5 wins this does anything remotely at all to take this club forward , infact I’d argue it takes us back to an even worse spot than we are in now
It’s this kind of short term thinking that sees us hang on to mediocrity

How So?

[SydneySainter]

If we could net a late first rounder by trading Dunstan or Steele with Newnes, I'd say go for it.

[fugazi]

I reckon Dunstan is worth hanging on to.
Newnes and Steele both trade bait.

Armo and Koby are either gone or going , Dunstan has a place as a clearance midfielder, so long as we bring some pace in around him.

Dunstan, Steven, Acres, Gresham, Billings, Ross, Clark is a reasonable young midfueld squad.
Put a DeGoey or Gaff in there and develop Coffield and whoever we get with Pick 3 ( Walsh maybe) ...and we have a midfield that can develop over next 3 years into real quality.

[chico2001]

There might be a few spill out of the wash at the end of the year, Adelaide will move a few on if they dont make top 4 because they would be very pissed of as to where they are at right now. GWS might do the same. If Richmond win the flag this year then a couple of their reserves players may want a change because they cant crack a game. Saints have to get rid of midfield players who are slow. Can only carry one of that type. Forget loyalty, if they cant cut it then move them on.

[DJ Higgins]

I am worried with all the de-listing and retirements no one will be there to play. From what i have read above I don't think we can de-list half of the players mentioned . My logic is as follows

Retirements
Gilbo (it's time)
Armo (it's time)
Roberton (possible heart-I hope not but 3 young kids need their dad)
Koby (head)

this leaves us down 3-4

de-list most likely, trade for picks if possible
Lonie (Not AFL Standard - NAS)
Wright (NAS)
Hickey or Longer (both poor, lose one)
Pierce (NAS - but not counted)
Freeman (NAS-possible Rookie)
Brown (AFL standard but taking a spot)

this makes us down say 7 and there are arguments for more.

So who do we trade and why.
Ross may get a second round pick. Is it worth the risk? - Not to me
Newnes may get a third round pick. Is it worth the risk? -Maybe

net movement regardless of who we trade so still down 7

Free/restricted agents
this is tricky as we may pick up one or 2 here but I doubt they will be class as who really wants to play for us at present. Players not good enough to get consistent runs in their team. But say we get 1

now we are down 6

This years draft (now)
Picks 3, 57, 67,68

most likely round one pick plays so now we are down 5. I am ignoring rookie draft as they rarely play early in the first year.

Am I right to be worried if we have too big a clear out this year we will cut off our nose to spite our face and be left with a worse team with no depth?

Based on my incredibly rough #'s we can lose about 4 and some of them will be out of our hands

Terrible list management St Kilda, just terrible but we have started to make changes so that is something

[Saintmatt]

I'd be enquiring after Melbourne's Jaidyn Hunt.
Not getting a game at the moment but he has huge pace and intensity.

Keep Ross.

Delist .: Lonie, Weller, Koby Stevens,
Trade: Longer or Hickey : take your pick

Godfather deal: De Goey or Gaff

1000% re: Jayden Hunt. Exactly the linebreaker we need off half back. Run and Carry ... so reminiscent of Jason Gram in his peak!

[Teflon]

We may rue beating gold coast on weekend.

Ffs we may have thrown away getting walsh or Smith who we desperately need.

IF WE RECRUIT MAX KING I WILL LOSE.MY s***

Pick 3/4:. Smith - Walsh - Rankine or Collier Dawkins
SERIOUSLY IF WE.CHOOSE ANOTHER TALL ESPECIALLY KINGS WHO LOOK REALLY s*** AND SLOW.

I think we would benefit more by winning more games this season than losing. I dont share your view that tanking is a good idea.

And I don’t share your view that limping to 4-5 wins this does anything remotely at all to take this club forward , infact I’d argue it takes us back to an even worse spot than we are in now
It’s this kind of short term thinking that sees us hang on to mediocrity

How So?

How so what?
How finishing lower gets you better picks in a draft we desperately need to get anything out of and is a better reward than finishing 15th?

I think it’s obvious but do go forth and give me a lecture on how our “moral code” will be shattered for all time by tanking.....I care not. I just want the best available talent that enables us to be genuine challengers
Im not interested in meaningless wins that land us in no mans land....

[Crossy66]

We may rue beating gold coast on weekend.

Ffs we may have thrown away getting walsh or Smith who we desperately need.

IF WE RECRUIT MAX KING I WILL LOSE.MY s***

Pick 3/4:. Smith - Walsh - Rankine or Collier Dawkins
SERIOUSLY IF WE.CHOOSE ANOTHER TALL ESPECIALLY KINGS WHO LOOK REALLY s*** AND SLOW.

I think we would benefit more by winning more games this season than losing. I dont share your view that tanking is a good idea.

And I don’t share your view that limping to 4-5 wins this does anything remotely at all to take this club forward , infact I’d argue it takes us back to an even worse spot than we are in now
It’s this kind of short term thinking that sees us hang on to mediocrity

How So?

How so what?
How finishing lower gets you better picks in a draft we desperately need to get anything out of and is a better reward than finishing 15th?

I think it’s obvious but do go forth and give me a lecture on how our “moral code” will be shattered for all time by tanking.....I care not. I just want the best available talent that enables us to be genuine challengers
Im not interested in meaningless wins that land us in no mans land....

Nothing to do with moral code. So I am Rory Sloane, the Saints lose every game finish 15th or 16 th, i would be less inclined to go there than playing for StKilda that wins the next nine and looks like a finals contender next year. I just think you need to show something to attract FA's.
Also think that good teams have good culture and strong leadership. Tanking isnt good for culture.
If we win another 4 or five we may go from pick 3 to pick 5. Draft history and in particular this draft, you are going to get a good player. The key will be the culture or development environment you bring them into more so than draft number.
Financially. poor game attendances for the rest of this year and trying to sell memberships for a cellar dweller next year will not help our 10mil debt.
In a nutshell, losing is bad for culture and bad for business and bad for the other 40 players for what - to climb up two spots in the draft?
So no - i didnt think my questions was that obvious.

[Teflon]

We may rue beating gold coast on weekend.

Ffs we may have thrown away getting walsh or Smith who we desperately need.

IF WE RECRUIT MAX KING I WILL LOSE.MY s***

Pick 3/4:. Smith - Walsh - Rankine or Collier Dawkins
SERIOUSLY IF WE.CHOOSE ANOTHER TALL ESPECIALLY KINGS WHO LOOK REALLY s*** AND SLOW.

I think we would benefit more by winning more games this season than losing. I dont share your view that tanking is a good idea.

And I don’t share your view that limping to 4-5 wins this does anything remotely at all to take this club forward , infact I’d argue it takes us back to an even worse spot than we are in now
It’s this kind of short term thinking that sees us hang on to mediocrity

How So?

How so what?
How finishing lower gets you better picks in a draft we desperately need to get anything out of and is a better reward than finishing 15th?

I think it’s obvious but do go forth and give me a lecture on how our “moral code” will be shattered for all time by tanking.....I care not. I just want the best available talent that enables us to be genuine challengers
Im not interested in meaningless wins that land us in no mans land....

Nothing to do with moral code. So I am Rory Sloane, the Saints lose every game finish 15th or 16 th, i would be less inclined to go there than playing for StKilda that wins the next nine and looks like a finals contender next year. I just think you need to show something to attract FA's.
Also think that good teams have good culture and strong leadership. Tanking isnt good for culture.
If we win another 4 or five we may go from pick 3 to pick 5. Draft history and in particular this draft, you are going to get a good player. The key will be the culture or development environment you bring them into more so than draft number.
Financially. poor game attendances for the rest of this year and trying to sell memberships for a cellar dweller next year will not help our 10mil debt.
In a nutshell, losing is bad for culture and bad for business and bad for the other 40 players for what - to climb up two spots in the draft?
So no - i didnt think my questions was that obvious.

Culture takes longer than 10 games to change
Rory Sloan knows what we are like already which is why Hawks are front runners because they are already closer to a flag than us
Higher draft position gives you greater choice you still need to make the right selection.....but if we can land a Chris Judd at 1 or N Riewoldt at 1 that sets you up for a decade. This draft is supposedly that good
Members need hope - a top line no 1 draft pick can bring some of that and no serious member believes we have the top shelf quality on our list anyway, besides a number 1 pick also gives you flexibility as it can be traded down to 2 top 10 picks and that might even pay higher dividends
No one is advertising tanking but we do that by playing kids so b4and doesn’t suffer as people know that’s where we need to go
Enough corporate BS about how good we are.....we fool no one
Better to be pragmatic, milk the system for all its worth, take some short term pain for much longer gain
We were rabble in 2000 - no one remembered that when Riewoldt led them onto the field for the 2009 GF

[Crossy66]

We may rue beating gold coast on weekend.

Ffs we may have thrown away getting walsh or Smith who we desperately need.

IF WE RECRUIT MAX KING I WILL LOSE.MY s***

Pick 3/4:. Smith - Walsh - Rankine or Collier Dawkins
SERIOUSLY IF WE.CHOOSE ANOTHER TALL ESPECIALLY KINGS WHO LOOK REALLY s*** AND SLOW.

I think we would benefit more by winning more games this season than losing. I dont share your view that tanking is a good idea.

And I don’t share your view that limping to 4-5 wins this does anything remotely at all to take this club forward , infact I’d argue it takes us back to an even worse spot than we are in now
It’s this kind of short term thinking that sees us hang on to mediocrity

How So?

How so what?
How finishing lower gets you better picks in a draft we desperately need to get anything out of and is a better reward than finishing 15th?

I think it’s obvious but do go forth and give me a lecture on how our “moral code” will be shattered for all time by tanking.....I care not. I just want the best available talent that enables us to be genuine challengers
Im not interested in meaningless wins that land us in no mans land....

Nothing to do with moral code. So I am Rory Sloane, the Saints lose every game finish 15th or 16 th, i would be less inclined to go there than playing for StKilda that wins the next nine and looks like a finals contender next year. I just think you need to show something to attract FA's.
Also think that good teams have good culture and strong leadership. Tanking isnt good for culture.
If we win another 4 or five we may go from pick 3 to pick 5. Draft history and in particular this draft, you are going to get a good player. The key will be the culture or development environment you bring them into more so than draft number.
Financially. poor game attendances for the rest of this year and trying to sell memberships for a cellar dweller next year will not help our 10mil debt.
In a nutshell, losing is bad for culture and bad for business and bad for the other 40 players for what - to climb up two spots in the draft?
So no - i didnt think my questions was that obvious.

Culture takes longer than 10 games to change
Rory Sloan knows what we are like already which is why Hawks are front runners because they are already closer to a flag than us
Higher draft position gives you greater choice you still need to make the right selection.....but if we can land a Chris Judd at 1 or N Riewoldt at 1 that sets you up for a decade. This draft is supposedly that good
Members need hope - a top line no 1 draft pick can bring some of that and no serious member believes we have the top shelf quality on our list anyway, besides a number 1 pick also gives you flexibility as it can be traded down to 2 top 10 picks and that might even pay higher dividends
No one is advertising tanking but we do that by playing kids so b4and doesn’t suffer as people know that’s where we need to go
Enough corporate BS about how good we are.....we fool no one
Better to be pragmatic, milk the system for all its worth, take some short term pain for much longer gain
We were rabble in 2000 - no one remembered that when Riewoldt led them onto the field for the 2009 GF

I understand your argument, and am sure plenty will agree. I just dont think the upside is worth the downside. Just on the number one selection, historically it hasnt been so good. In fact the number one selection has not always proved to be the best player if you revisited it a few years later. i.e. Weitering (1)or Oliver (4) or Curnow (12) rioli (15)? Paddy McCartin or Petracca / Brayshaw / Degoey / Lever
What about Tome Boyd versus Kelly / Bont / Cripps / Billings
McGrath versus Taranto / Florent

BTW, Chris Judd was number 3.

We will get a good player at 3,4 or 5!