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chico2001 wrote: ↑Mon 11 Jun 2018 9:26pm
Agree with quite a few of your post scollop but unfortunately the list is not capable of making the eight let alone top 6. The list is overrated by a lot of posters...is it "blind love"? Look at the facts when you run your eye over a list. 2-4 players would get a game at top eight clubs. About 6 might get a game with Suns, or Blues. The rest are just not good enough to impact consistently at AFL. Then you have the young guys coming through and you cant form a base opinion on them yet.
Hard to assess the list in the context of the current coaching regime. Easy to forget that after round 16 last year, we were 9-6, 7th on the ladder and looking at a finals berth with winnable games to come. I don’t believe that of all our young players there aren’t at least a number of them who aren’t quality players. They appear to me to be playing without any real heart or passion and that problem in my book, is a leadership problem. Who is the leader? Five years and this is what he’s created. Seen enough thanks. Give these players someone to connect with and play for and then see how they go.
The club insiders have been leaking information to the media about changes to the coaching line up and it seems like they think the club can improve under Richo. I highly doubt that we can. The board erred in extending Richo's tenure and we will stagnate if he remains as head coach. I wouldn't mind stagnating if we were top 4. I agree with the OP
Found an interesting article from a month or two back which highlights specific reasons that Saints fans should be aware of regarding similar failings under Richo's leadership
Who was responsible for the mechanics of our alliance with Sandringham? Who was responsible for Peta Searle's engagement in menial tasks? That head(s) needs to roll and roll quick.
chico2001 wrote: ↑Mon 11 Jun 2018 9:26pm
Agree with quite a few of your post scollop but unfortunately the list is not capable of making the eight let alone top 6. The list is overrated by a lot of posters...is it "blind love"? Look at the facts when you run your eye over a list. 2-4 players would get a game at top eight clubs. About 6 might get a game with Suns, or Blues. The rest are just not good enough to impact consistently at AFL. Then you have the young guys coming through and you cant form a base opinion on them yet.
Hard to assess the list in the context of the current coaching regime. Easy to forget that after round 16 last year, we were 9-6, 7th on the ladder and looking at a finals berth with winnable games to come. I don’t believe that of all our young players there aren’t at least a number of them who aren’t quality players. They appear to me to be playing without any real heart or passion and that problem in my book, is a leadership problem. Who is the leader? Five years and this is what he’s created. Seen enough thanks. Give these players someone to connect with and play for and then see how they go.
The club insiders have been leaking information to the media about changes to the coaching line up and it seems like they think the club can improve under Richo. I highly doubt that we can. The board erred in extending Richo's tenure and we will stagnate if he remains as head coach. I wouldn't mind stagnating if we were top 4. I agree with the OP
Found an interesting article from a month or two back which highlights specific reasons that Saints fans should be aware of regarding similar failings under Richo's leadership
Crikey, that says a lot about our dysfunction. Particularly interesting the similarity between us now and Carlton when Richardson was director of coaching. He’s just got to go ASAP.
Scollop wrote: ↑Mon 11 Jun 2018 4:55pm
The list is capable of a spot from 12 up to about 6th in my opinion. The team has failed and I don't blame the players. The coaching is the issue. Our brand of footy is evidence of a disconnect between the coaching and the players. Don't forget we are 4+ years into a rebuild and you expect younger players to be improving as they get more experience. Many players have stagnated or gone backwards. We've seen many of our players failing to perform at their best and please don't tell me it's because we don't have Rooy and Joey. Both were there at the back end of last year when we started this run of poor performances and I don't think they even figured in our top 10 last year.
The coaching has failed in many areas. The gameplan, the lack of integrity in team selection, player positions at times as well as overall ability to get the players motivated and prepared to showcase the club in marquee games has been indictment on the coaches. Richo will cost this club a lot of money from a lack of corportates and sponsorship if we cannot retain our Saturday night games or our Good Friday game. The head coach is responsible and he needs to be accountable
Scollop wrote: ↑Mon 11 Jun 2018 4:55pm
The list is capable of a spot from 12 up to about 6th in my opinion. The team has failed and I don't blame the players. The coaching is the issue. Our brand of footy is evidence of a disconnect between the coaching and the players. Don't forget we are 4+ years into a rebuild and you expect younger players to be improving as they get more experience. Many players have stagnated or gone backwards. We've seen many of our players failing to perform at their best and please don't tell me it's because we don't have Rooy and Joey. Both were there at the back end of last year when we started this run of poor performances and I don't think they even figured in our top 10 last year.
The coaching has failed in many areas. The gameplan, the lack of integrity in team selection, player positions at times as well as overall ability to get the players motivated and prepared to showcase the club in marquee games has been indictment on the coaches. Richo will cost this club a lot of money from a lack of corportates and sponsorship if we cannot retain our Saturday night games or our Good Friday game. The head coach is responsible and he needs to be accountable
chico2001 wrote: ↑Mon 11 Jun 2018 9:26pm
Agree with quite a few of your post scollop but unfortunately the list is not capable of making the eight let alone top 6. The list is overrated by a lot of posters...is it "blind love"? Look at the facts when you run your eye over a list. 2-4 players would get a game at top eight clubs. About 6 might get a game with Suns, or Blues. The rest are just not good enough to impact consistently at AFL. Then you have the young guys coming through and you cant form a base opinion on them yet.
Hard to assess the list in the context of the current coaching regime. Easy to forget that after round 16 last year, we were 9-6, 7th on the ladder and looking at a finals berth with winnable games to come. I don’t believe that of all our young players there aren’t at least a number of them who aren’t quality players. They appear to me to be playing without any real heart or passion and that problem in my book, is a leadership problem. Who is the leader? Five years and this is what he’s created. Seen enough thanks. Give these players someone to connect with and play for and then see how they go.
The club insiders have been leaking information to the media about changes to the coaching line up and it seems like they think the club can improve under Richo. I highly doubt that we can. The board erred in extending Richo's tenure and we will stagnate if he remains as head coach. I wouldn't mind stagnating if we were top 4. I agree with the OP
Found an interesting article from a month or two back which highlights specific reasons that Saints fans should be aware of regarding similar failings under Richo's leadership
Crikey, that says a lot about our dysfunction. Particularly interesting the similarity between us now and Carlton when Richardson was director of coaching. He’s just got to go ASAP.
Says you. Richo is not going anywhere ffs.
What don't you understand?
You say ASAP...
If the club sacked Richo now it would have to pay him out 2 and 1/2 years of his contract which would be included in the cap of what we can pay coaches and support staff.
We would be able to afford another coach, let alone any assistants.
I heard on the radio the other day that there’s a clause in RIcho’s contract that the club only has to pay out a certain amount of months of his current contract should we choose to move him on. Not sure of the truth in it but thought it was interesting.
prwilkinson wrote: ↑Tue 19 Jun 2018 7:35pm
I heard on the radio the other day that there’s a clause in RIcho’s contract that the club only has to pay out a certain amount of months of his current contract should we choose to move him on. Not sure of the truth in it but thought it was interesting.
They are just guessing I would think.
Don't believe Richo's contract or the contracts of any of the coaches would be public knowledge and certainly not to any f****** reporter or scum journo.
For what its worth IMHO, if Gold Coast had run away to a 10 goal victory (looked on the cards at one stage), then I don't think Richo would be our Coach tonight.
Without seeing his contract and assuming its an employment contract, as opposed to some sort of contractor arrangement, then I don't think you would need to pay him out the remaining 2.5 years unless you were a fool. Unless of course the performance of the team is someone else's responsibility or everyone surrounding Richo are proven to be manifestly incompetent.
I tried to explain this to the poster wanting to run a ticket aka Shostack's Kite. If we were to have a disastrous next match or two, then I would think you could do a deal where he would be paid out until the end of this year (Dec 2018) or at the very worst, the end of the next Financial year(30.6.2019). Then again the Club does have form for Industrial Relations idiocy (albeit a different Board), when they didn't think they had to pay out GT his statutory entitlement to his accumulated annual leave. I don't buy this 2.5 year payout rubbish.
Scollop wrote: ↑Mon 11 Jun 2018 4:55pm
The list is capable of a spot from 12 up to about 6th in my opinion. The team has failed and I don't blame the players. The coaching is the issue. Our brand of footy is evidence of a disconnect between the coaching and the players. Don't forget we are 4+ years into a rebuild and you expect younger players to be improving as they get more experience. Many players have stagnated or gone backwards. We've seen many of our players failing to perform at their best and please don't tell me it's because we don't have Rooy and Joey. Both were there at the back end of last year when we started this run of poor performances and I don't think they even figured in our top 10 last year.
The coaching has failed in many areas. The gameplan, the lack of integrity in team selection, player positions at times as well as overall ability to get the players motivated and prepared to showcase the club in marquee games has been indictment on the coaches. Richo will cost this club a lot of money from a lack of corportates and sponsorship if we cannot retain our Saturday night games or our Good Friday game. The head coach is responsible and he needs to be accountable
What a terrible over rating of the list NFI
Who has got NFI?
Old people who pretend they were once lawyers have NFI Stinger....
Are you hoggin* the Internet at the nursing home again?
chico2001 wrote: ↑Mon 11 Jun 2018 9:26pm
Agree with quite a few of your post scollop but unfortunately the list is not capable of making the eight let alone top 6. The list is overrated by a lot of posters...is it "blind love"? Look at the facts when you run your eye over a list. 2-4 players would get a game at top eight clubs. About 6 might get a game with Suns, or Blues. The rest are just not good enough to impact consistently at AFL. Then you have the young guys coming through and you cant form a base opinion on them yet.
Hard to assess the list in the context of the current coaching regime. Easy to forget that after round 16 last year, we were 9-6, 7th on the ladder and looking at a finals berth with winnable games to come. I don’t believe that of all our young players there aren’t at least a number of them who aren’t quality players. They appear to me to be playing without any real heart or passion and that problem in my book, is a leadership problem. Who is the leader? Five years and this is what he’s created. Seen enough thanks. Give these players someone to connect with and play for and then see how they go.
The club insiders have been leaking information to the media about changes to the coaching line up and it seems like they think the club can improve under Richo. I highly doubt that we can. The board erred in extending Richo's tenure and we will stagnate if he remains as head coach. I wouldn't mind stagnating if we were top 4. I agree with the OP
Found an interesting article from a month or two back which highlights specific reasons that Saints fans should be aware of regarding similar failings under Richo's leadership
Crikey, that says a lot about our dysfunction. Particularly interesting the similarity between us now and Carlton when Richardson was director of coaching. He’s just got to go ASAP.
Wasn't Richardson director of coaching at Port? I thought he was just an assistant at Carlton?
Ive done a bit of research on the article quoted it looks like AR was only an assistant to Ratten at Carlscum in 2011 to 2012. He was sacked along with Ratten and others when Malthouse took over because he and Malthouse had fallen out previously at Carlton
Can't find anywhere he was director of coaching So I don't actually think he would have much say.
And the president said " I did not have sex with that woman"
And our former president said " Football is like golf"
The Mongrel punt piece has a few factual errors and heresay but it led to a look at AR's profile on Wikipedia and archived articles. Some extracts show he had a 13 yr apprenticeship at several clubs and has been overlooked for senior coaching positions a number of times. He misled Leigh Mathews about his fitness for the 1990 GF and suffered the indignity of being tested brutally by Leigh and failing (collar bone popped or fully broke), he did not play in the premiership. He worked under Mathew Knights where I speculate he got the idea of manic offence (didn't work for Knights/Essendon either). Known at Collingwood for developing T. Cloke and S. Pendelbury - like saying tripping over gold makes one Midas. S. Watters was chosen over him for the Saints job which seems a serious insult and he is quoted as saying he then accepted he would never be a senior coach and moved (sans family) to Port Adelaide, a few months later he broke that contract which (coincidently) had 2 years to run to become Saints Coach late 2013 just prior to Paddy's draft so he had very little input to that. Also says he is 5' 11" which surprised me - we must have very tall players as he looks a bit smaller on TV. Possibly the Board after Watters were a bit at a loss about steadying the ship and chose AR almost by default and to their credit have been loyal to him, possibly to a fault. The 2 year extension is a mystery that may be explained in Summers biography. So Alan is not above deception (1990/Mathews) and knows this is his last throw of the dice. He isn't going anywhere willingly. I further suspect the last quarter against the Suns was player driven and won't automatically happen again (hope I am wrong). The Board are advised by the CEO and Director of Football and all must know AR is not going to take us anywhere as he has shown he doesn't have the charisma or tactical ability. Their dilemma is when to let him go and how to identify another coach without causing opprobrium. They can't wait two years however or they will all lose their jobs for sitting on hands.
I'm obviously distant to the inner sanctum of an AFL footy club and the people involved but, I've always wondered why Leigh Tudor hasn't had a crack at a senior role.
Yorkeys wrote: ↑Wed 20 Jun 2018 9:43am
The Mongrel punt piece has a few factual errors and heresay but it led to a look at AR's profile on Wikipedia and archived articles. Some extracts show he had a 13 yr apprenticeship at several clubs and has been overlooked for senior coaching positions a number of times. He misled Leigh Mathews about his fitness for the 1990 GF and suffered the indignity of being tested brutally by Leigh and failing (collar bone popped or fully broke), he did not play in the premiership. He worked under Mathew Knights where I speculate he got the idea of manic offence (didn't work for Knights/Essendon either). Known at Collingwood for developing T. Cloke and S. Pendelbury - like saying tripping over gold makes one Midas. S. Watters was chosen over him for the Saints job which seems a serious insult and he is quoted as saying he then accepted he would never be a senior coach and moved (sans family) to Port Adelaide, a few months later he broke that contract which (coincidently) had 2 years to run to become Saints Coach late 2013 just prior to Paddy's draft so he had very little input to that. Also says he is 5' 11" which surprised me - we must have very tall players as he looks a bit smaller on TV. Possibly the Board after Watters were a bit at a loss about steadying the ship and chose AR almost by default and to their credit have been loyal to him, possibly to a fault. The 2 year extension is a mystery that may be explained in Summers biography. So Alan is not above deception (1990/Mathews) and knows this is his last throw of the dice. He isn't going anywhere willingly. I further suspect the last quarter against the Suns was player driven and won't automatically happen again (hope I am wrong). The Board are advised by the CEO and Director of Football and all must know AR is not going to take us anywhere as he has shown he doesn't have the charisma or tactical ability. Their dilemma is when to let him go and how to identify another coach without causing opprobrium. They can't wait two years however or they will all lose their jobs for sitting on hands.
I gotta say, that's a pretty unusual post.
It's sort of like a Herald-Sun style report that gives a very loose summary of facts that is ultimately rolled into one big opinion piece.
supersaints wrote: ↑Wed 20 Jun 2018 7:13am
Ive done a bit of research on the article quoted it looks like AR was only an assistant to Ratten at Carlscum in 2011 to 2012. He was sacked along with Ratten and others when Malthouse took over because he and Malthouse had fallen out previously at Carlton
Can't find anywhere he was director of coaching So I don't actually think he would have much say.
I wonder whether the writer got their nose out of joint re: senior coach interview...there are some really interesting (and damning) observations, but the attempt to tie Richo directly to Carlton's woes in 2012 and St Kilda's since mid last year is pretty tenuous. Seriously, how crap were Carlton for a long time prior to 2012, and still are now, yet Richo came and went as an assistant in the virtual twinkling of an eye.
In any case, as the article more or less points out, we have higher culture issues than our coach. Whilst we're drawing Carlton analogies, I'm always afraid we'd be repeating their Ratten dismissal should we jump too soon.
Simon Lethlean has come in and is already making changes this year. If anyone will knows what needs to be done it will be him.
He would have reviewed all contract and weighed up all scenarios and will do the one that is best for the club even if we drop out of favour for a while. Like I have said before, it is easy to say sack the coach/coaches now but who coaches us and would they be better and cost effective. Expect back room meeting to be taking place with potential candidates already or strategies being formed for a transition to occur. I doubt anything will occur until season end re Richo as the season is over for us so why waste money paying him out for more than we have to. But expect lesser coaching/draft staff to be shown the door earlier.
prwilkinson wrote: ↑Wed 20 Jun 2018 10:52am
I'm obviously distant to the inner sanctum of an AFL footy club and the people involved but, I've always wondered why Leigh Tudor hasn't had a crack at a senior role.
This has me stuffed too great question
He was good with us and appears respected so it’s a mystery but he’s certainly done the apprentic3ship
He’s one I’d seriously look at...
Yorkeys wrote: ↑Wed 20 Jun 2018 9:43am
The Mongrel punt piece has a few factual errors and heresay but it led to a look at AR's profile on Wikipedia and archived articles. Some extracts show he had a 13 yr apprenticeship at several clubs and has been overlooked for senior coaching positions a number of times. He misled Leigh Mathews about his fitness for the 1990 GF and suffered the indignity of being tested brutally by Leigh and failing (collar bone popped or fully broke), he did not play in the premiership. He worked under Mathew Knights where I speculate he got the idea of manic offence (didn't work for Knights/Essendon either). Known at Collingwood for developing T. Cloke and S. Pendelbury - like saying tripping over gold makes one Midas. S. Watters was chosen over him for the Saints job which seems a serious insult and he is quoted as saying he then accepted he would never be a senior coach and moved (sans family) to Port Adelaide, a few months later he broke that contract which (coincidently) had 2 years to run to become Saints Coach late 2013 just prior to Paddy's draft so he had very little input to that. Also says he is 5' 11" which surprised me - we must have very tall players as he looks a bit smaller on TV. Possibly the Board after Watters were a bit at a loss about steadying the ship and chose AR almost by default and to their credit have been loyal to him, possibly to a fault. The 2 year extension is a mystery that may be explained in Summers biography. So Alan is not above deception (1990/Mathews) and knows this is his last throw of the dice. He isn't going anywhere willingly. I further suspect the last quarter against the Suns was player driven and won't automatically happen again (hope I am wrong). The Board are advised by the CEO and Director of Football and all must know AR is not going to take us anywhere as he has shown he doesn't have the charisma or tactical ability. Their dilemma is when to let him go and how to identify another coach without causing opprobrium. They can't wait two years however or they will all lose their jobs for sitting on hands.
I gotta say, that's a pretty unusual post.
It's sort of like a Herald-Sun style report that gives a very loose summary of facts that is ultimately rolled into one big opinion piece.
Whereas yours are more like the Australian a day or two after it’s all been broken I fear, I like them don’t get me wrong, but I’m nostalgic and often read yesterday’s news..
