Administration and Coach - Hold our nerve

[Con Gorozidis]

I'm flabbergasted.

Richo has the worst record of any coach to make 100 games in ALL history. Yes. AFL history.

People are getting desperate in the excuse making business.

[Junior]

Not defending Richo, but comparing him to Buckley is rubbish.

That is just trying to suite your view, I have judged him three years of pass marks and two fails. I would not have extended his contract but like most things con you are over the top and irrational.

His percentage of wins against Buckley is worth nothing as they inherited totally different situations.

[Con Gorozidis]

Ok so some bristle at comparisons to Richmond's plight in 2016 and thier decission not to sack Hardwick.

Collingwood and thier decission not to sack Nathan Buckley in 2017 anyone.

Buckley is batting at 53%.

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/cp- ... uckley--91

If Richo was anywhere near 53% nobody would want to sack him. He isn't even close.

So yes. I am bristling.

He did take over a very decent team though, to be fair.

Hang on.
He took over a side that already had peaked and had no high draft picks.
Not much different to we were at in 2012.

It's a stupid comparison. The hard fact is Buckley is light years ahead and has won many more games.

But Richo is a nice guy. So i guess we should stick with him.

?

Didn't Buckley take over Collingwood only 12 months after a GF and 24 months after a Premiership?

Richardson took over the Saints in 2014.


Con, you're tiptoeing on the irrational line these days.

I'm irrational?

Buckley is clearly a better performed coach than Richo on any measure. It is not even comparable.

Only the most one eyed biased Saint would dispute this.

And you call me irrational. Don't you work in a big 4? You aren't very bright.

Collingwood haven't played finals since 2013.
They fell as low as 12th. No lower.
It is now 2018 and they are back up in the 8.

Are you honestly trying to make a case that Richo is comparable to Buckley?

Seriously?

Collingwood have never had a % below 90 under Buckley.

We are in the 60s.

Seriously get a grip on reality dude.

I gather numbers aren't your thing.

Or logic for that matter.

What area do you work in?

Barely a single sentence of that reply has any relevance to my post.

Hence, even moreso - you are becoming completely irrational.

I'm not addressing your post because it is so blatantly moronic.

Richo had Riewoldt, Montana, Fisher, Dempster at his disposal when he took over. These blokes helped him win plenty of games. So what. What's your point?

The reality is 34% is disastrous after 100 games.
Regardless of the exact take over time.
Both coaches took over aging lists past their peak.

And who cares anyway. That was five years ago.

Look at present day reality and stop clutching at straws.

Talk about irrational.

The reality is Buckley has won many many more games. Full stop.

Richo has run out of excuses. This is his team. No one else's.

[rodgerfox]

I'm not addressing your post because it is so blatantly moronic.

Richo had Riewoldt, Montana, Fisher, Dempster at his disposal when he took over. These blokes helped him win plenty of games. So what. What's your point?

The reality is 34% is disastrous after 100 games.
Regardless of the exact take over time.
Both coaches took over aging lists past their peak.

And who cares anyway. That was five years ago.

Look at present day reality and stop clutching at straws.

Talk about irrational.

The reality is Buckley has won many many more games. Full stop.

Richo has run out of excuses. This is his team. No one else's.

You're become even more irrational with each post.

This has even less relevance than your previous post.

[Junior]

I'm flabbergasted.

Richo has the worst record of any coach to make 100 games in ALL history. Yes. AFL history.

Spot on con, and it will cost him is job.

But still has nothing to do with comparing a coach who inherited a grand final team with a guy who inherited a rabble.

Personally I would move him on, not based on winning percentage as it was always going to be low first few years but because we have gone backwards over the last 18 months.

[Con Gorozidis]

If our list was so bad then why has Richo been talking it Up?

Why does he stick with the same dud players if he is so savvy?

[rodgerfox]

If our list was so bad then why has Richo been talking it Up?

Why does he stick with the same dud players if he is so savvy?

I don't think I've read or heard a single person say Richo is savvy. All I've heard and read is that he's no good.

[degruch]

Ok so some bristle at comparisons to Richmond's plight in 2016 and thier decission not to sack Hardwick.

Collingwood and thier decission not to sack Nathan Buckley in 2017 anyone.

Buckley is batting at 53%.

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/cp- ... uckley--91

If Richo was anywhere near 53% nobody would want to sack him. He isn't even close.

So yes. I am bristling.

He did take over a very decent team though, to be fair.

Hang on.
He took over a side that already had peaked and had no high draft picks.
Not much different to we were at in 2012.

It's a stupid comparison. The hard fact is Buckley is light years ahead and has won many more games.

But Richo is a nice guy. So i guess we should stick with him.

Geez, Collingwood under Buckley's tenure are SO similar to us...bring in Varcoe, Greenwood, Howe, Wells, Aish, Treloar, Dunn, Hoskins-Elliott, White, 2 x first round picks 2013 (Scharenberg, Freeman) and 2014 (De Goey, Moore), massive changes off-field...Richo would have won 53% under the same conditions. He would have easily equaled Dimma's pre-June 2017 efforts (only took 6 months for his coaching history to be completely re-written, apparently) as well.

That said, even though the club's respective decisions to retain the coach likely have a similar background, the conditions of Collingwood and Richmond's clubs during the same period is starkly different. It's hard to argue against an overhaul to be honest, but I'd be prepared to wait it out until the end of the season...can't see we have much to lose.

[Junior]

Ok so some bristle at comparisons to Richmond's plight in 2016 and thier decission not to sack Hardwick.

Collingwood and thier decission not to sack Nathan Buckley in 2017 anyone.

Buckley is batting at 53%.

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/cp- ... uckley--91

If Richo was anywhere near 53% nobody would want to sack him. He isn't even close.

So yes. I am bristling.

He did take over a very decent team though, to be fair.

Hang on.
He took over a side that already had peaked and had no high draft picks.
Not much different to we were at in 2012.

It's a stupid comparison. The hard fact is Buckley is light years ahead and has won many more games.

But Richo is a nice guy. So i guess we should stick with him.

?

Didn't Buckley take over Collingwood only 12 months after a GF and 24 months after a Premiership?

Richardson took over the Saints in 2014.


Con, you're tiptoeing on the irrational line these days.

I'm irrational?

Buckley is clearly a better performed coach than Richo on any measure. It is not even comparable.

Only the most one eyed biased Saint would dispute this.

And you call me irrational. Don't you work in a big 4? You aren't very bright.

Collingwood haven't played finals since 2013.
They fell as low as 12th. No lower.
It is now 2018 and they are back up in the 8.

Are you honestly trying to make a case that Richo is comparable to Buckley?

Seriously?

Collingwood have never had a % below 90 under Buckley.

We are in the 60s.

Seriously get a grip on reality dude.

I gather numbers aren't your thing.

Or logic for that matter.

What area do you work in?

Barely a single sentence of that reply has any relevance to my post.

Hence, even moreso - you are becoming completely irrational.

I'm not addressing your post because it is so blatantly moronic.

Richo had Riewoldt, Montana, Fisher, Dempster at his disposal when he took over. These blokes helped him win plenty of games. So what. What's your point?

The reality is 34% is disastrous after 100 games.
Regardless of the exact take over time.
Both coaches took over aging lists past their peak.

And who cares anyway. That was five years ago.

Look at present day reality and stop clutching at straws.

Talk about irrational.

The reality is Buckley has won many many more games. Full stop.

Richo has run out of excuses. This is his team. No one else's.

Of course Buckley has more wins he had a grand final list, to not acknowledge this is just plain stupid.

Tony Jewell, Alex Jesalemko and Malcolm Blight all have worse win loss percentages at St Kilda than where they one premierships why because of the list at their disposal. You could not expect them to have the same amount of wins or winning percentage.

One minute you want to talk winning percentages next minute you are saying what happened five years ago does not matter. If hat is the case don’t quote winning percentages which are all of the five years.

I agree that all that should matter is what is currently happening.

[Con Gorozidis]

Ok.
If Richo had a better list maybe he wins more games.
Maybe. Maybe not.
Who knows.

If I was taller maybe I might have had more sex with models.
Maybe. Maybe not. Who knows.

We can play hypotheticals all day and all night.

I prefer to deal with reality.

[Con Gorozidis]

Collingwood won the flag in 2010.
We drew them in the GF that same year.

Jesus Christ. People are thick.

It's 8 years ago ffs.

[rodgerfox]

Ok.
If Richo had a better list maybe he wins more games.
Maybe. Maybe not.
Who knows.

If I was taller maybe I might have had more sex with models.
Maybe. Maybe not. Who knows.

We can play hypotheticals all day and all night.

I prefer to deal with reality.

Ummm, that's why you're getting bagged for your comparison.

[Con Gorozidis]

Ok.
If Richo had a better list maybe he wins more games.
Maybe. Maybe not.
Who knows.

If I was taller maybe I might have had more sex with models.
Maybe. Maybe not. Who knows.

We can play hypotheticals all day and all night.

I prefer to deal with reality.

Ummm, that's why you're getting bagged for your comparison.

Seriously you are a complete twit. A complete moron.
What is your job? Dunny cleaner at kpmg?
The comparison is simple.

53 v 34.

That's it.

The hypothetical multiverse crap you are attempting to trot out is moronic and excuse creation.
If we follow that path then no coach can ever be compared. It is called 'relativism'. Nothing can ever be known outside its own circumstances.

100 games is a big enough sample size and tenure to make an objective assessment.
The data is in.

End of story.

If you want to fantasize about alternate realities go ahead.
But don't claim you are rational.
You are a twit.

<warning for abuse>

[rodgerfox]

[

100 games is a big enough sample size and tenure to make an objective assessment.
The data is in.

End of story.

If you want to fantasize about alternate realities go ahead.
But don't claim you are rational.
You are a twit.

So where does your Buckley comparison become in the slightest bit relevant?

[saintspremiers]

Ok.
If Richo had a better list maybe he wins more games.
Maybe. Maybe not.
Who knows.

If I was taller maybe I might have had more sex with models.
Maybe. Maybe not. Who knows.

We can play hypotheticals all day and all night.

I prefer to deal with reality.

Ummm, that's why you're getting bagged for your comparison.

Seriously you are a complete twit. A complete moron.
What is your job? Dunny cleaner at kpmg?
The comparison is simple.

53 v 34.

That's it.

The hypothetical multiverse crap you are attempting to trot out is moronic and excuse creation.
If we follow that path then no coach can ever be compared. It is called 'relativism'. Nothing can ever be known outside its own circumstances.

100 games is a big enough sample size and tenure to make an objective assessment.
The data is in.

End of story.

If you want to fantasize about alternate realities go ahead.
But don't claim you are rational.
You are a twit.

con - please take the rest of tonight off the forum. I don’t want you banned again - we all know that becomes inevitable once you ignite your afterburners.

Please save yourself!!!

[Con Gorozidis]

Maybe Mark Neeld was coach of the century.
He was just unlucky with the list.
Who knows?

Maybe Mark Latham would have been the best PM ever.
Who knows?

How far can we go with this crap?

[rodgerfox]

Maybe Mark Neeld was coach of the century.
He was just unlucky with the list.
Who knows?

Maybe Mark Latham would have been the best PM ever.
Who knows?

How far can we go with this crap?

You didn't need to take it any further than "Richo is a dud coach with 5 years at the helm and only 34 wins".

The rest was totally irrational and detracted from your argument.

[Con Gorozidis]

Maybe Mark Neeld was coach of the century.
He was just unlucky with the list.
Who knows?

Maybe Mark Latham would have been the best PM ever.
Who knows?

How far can we go with this crap?

You didn't need to take it any further than "Richo is a dud coach with 5 years at the helm and only 34 wins".

The rest was totally irrational and detracted from your argument.

Not at all.
You are simply too thick to follow it.
You are in denial and searching for shithouse excuses.

Buckley is simply better than Richo.
Like Lleyton Hewitt is better at tennis than Chris Guccione.

It's just an obvious fact beyond dispute.

Seriously. It's that straight fwd.

No amount of hypothetical nonsense can change it.

[rodgerfox]

Maybe Mark Neeld was coach of the century.
He was just unlucky with the list.
Who knows?

Maybe Mark Latham would have been the best PM ever.
Who knows?

How far can we go with this crap?

You didn't need to take it any further than "Richo is a dud coach with 5 years at the helm and only 34 wins".

The rest was totally irrational and detracted from your argument.

Not at all.
You are simply too thick to follow it.
You are in denial and searching for shithouse excuses.
Buckley is simply better than Richo.
Like Lleyton Hewitt is better at tennis than Chris Guccione.
It's just an obvious fact beyond dispute.

I think Buckley is far better than Richo.

[Teflon]

Maybe Mark Neeld was coach of the century.
He was just unlucky with the list.
Who knows?

Maybe Mark Latham would have been the best PM ever.
Who knows?

How far can we go with this crap?

You didn't need to take it any further than "Richo is a dud coach with 5 years at the helm and only 34 wins".

The rest was totally irrational and detracted from your argument.

Not at all.
You are simply too thick to follow it.
You are in denial and searching for shithouse excuses.
Buckley is simply better than Richo.
Like Lleyton Hewitt is better at tennis than Chris Guccione.
It's just an obvious fact beyond dispute.


Ahhhh Con
You've just been Dodgied he's the master at it really
Works like this:
1 he'll start with "yep good post agreed"
2 it'll garner board support - he flips and says your argument no longer makes sense...., not because he believes what he says (doesn't really care) about the argument but he doth like get underneath a skin or 3....
3. You get worked up
4. He'll state "you're irrational, illogical, bizarre .....it goes on..."
5. He's done with it and will finish with : "tbh I don't really follow any of this stuff that closely..." (my fav )

It's a game. The Dodgy game but when you realise that you learn and laugh and take not a lot seriously !
I think Buckley is far better than Richo.

[Teflon]

Ahhhh Con
You've just been Dodgied he's the master at it really
Works like this:
1 he'll start with "yep good post agreed"
2 it'll garner board support - he flips and says your argument no longer makes sense...., not because he believes what he says (doesn't really care) about the argument but he doth like get underneath a skin or 3....
3. You get worked up
4. He'll state "you're irrational, illogical, bizarre .....it goes on..."
5. He's done with it and will finish with : "tbh I don't really follow any of this stuff that closely..." (my fav )

It's a game. The Dodgy game but when you realise that you learn and laugh and take not a lot seriously !

[saintadamski]

Ok.
If Richo had a better list maybe he wins more games.
Maybe. Maybe not.
Who knows.

If I was taller maybe I might have had more sex with models.
Maybe. Maybe not. Who knows.

We can play hypotheticals all day and all night.

I prefer to deal with reality.

Well Con you can finally stop guessing and wondering...I am taller - and yes I have had more sex with models - it's the nature of the beast...It's how the universe works
Same with the cattle on the field...If we had a decent list that wasn't utterly destroyed by Ameet Bains and Tony Elshaug, then of course we would have won more games.
This is not a guessing game - it is plain as the nose on your face...better players = better results on field. God, why is this so hard to understand.

IF WE HAD BETTER PLAYERS - WE WOULD WIN MORE GAMES.....very very very simple. This is NOT...I repeat, NOT hypothetical

I find it incredible that people continually blame the coach - yes Richo obviously has failings, and could improve - but the list he is working with is PURE GARBAGE!
Billings, McCartin, Weller, Armitage, Sinclair, Lonie, Hickey, Newnes, Steele, Savage - THIS IS A TERRIBLE SIDE IN ANYONE'S LANGUAGE!!!!

The loss of Roberton, and Carlisle down back would only make it worse.

If we sack Richo, this club will sink further into the depths of despair - it will show the world that we are weak, and that we are easily manipulated by the media etc

SACK ELSHAUG NOW!
Install a recruiting department that can build a list of fierce skilled players....It's not rocket science, It's footy for f!&#ks sake

[rodgerfox]

To the post below
|
|
|
\/


I don't agree with Carey. There have been strong doubts over his coaching ability for 3-4 years now. This isn't a case of people jumping on him for one bad year.

[suss]

I thought Wayne Carey’s comments on Talking Footy were interesting. He was backed up by BT.

In a nutshell:

- Shouldn’t sack him.
- He’s done a good job.
- Up until now he’s achieved incremental improvement year on year.
- You don’t sack a coach on one bad year.
- Yes, it’s a bad year but no one expected saints in the eight.
- Can clearly coach but have lost brand.

Not saying I agree with all of it but seemed measured comments.

Doesn’t have the emotional connection that Riewoldt does either.

[degruch]

Maybe Mark Neeld was coach of the century.
He was just unlucky with the list.
Who knows?

Maybe Mark Latham would have been the best PM ever.
Who knows?

How far can we go with this crap?

You didn't need to take it any further than "Richo is a dud coach with 5 years at the helm and only 34 wins".

The rest was totally irrational and detracted from your argument.

Not at all.
You are simply too thick to follow it.
You are in denial and searching for shithouse excuses.
Buckley is simply better than Richo.
Like Lleyton Hewitt is better at tennis than Chris Guccione.
It's just an obvious fact beyond dispute.

I think Buckley is far better than Richo.

Buckley was the laughing stock of the AFL 12 games ago, and Con's Collingwood/St Kilda like for like comparison is pretty funny too.