Administration and Coach - Hold our nerve

[rodgerfox]

There has be to changes in every department of the entire club - players, coaches, medical staff, recruiters, the board, admin staff...even the boot studder.

I don't agree with that.

Why fix things if they're not broken? Why throw the baby out with the bath water?


You need to identify the problems first. None of us have a clue what the problems are. We can all see the symptoms, but we have no idea why and are merely guessing.

You've stated this now in several threads but are yet to enlighten us all on "the problem"
You've jumped around like Dodgy in the good old days and it's lovely to see that as some things change...others stay the same
So tell us all, please : "what is the problem with the St Kilda FC"
Go.

I don't know Teflon.

That's why I don't profess to know, nor subscribe to the theories on how to fix them.

[Teflon]

There has be to changes in every department of the entire club - players, coaches, medical staff, recruiters, the board, admin staff...even the boot studder.

I don't agree with that.

Why fix things if they're not broken? Why throw the baby out with the bath water?


You need to identify the problems first. None of us have a clue what the problems are. We can all see the symptoms, but we have no idea why and are merely guessing.

You've stated this now in several threads but are yet to enlighten us all on "the problem"
You've jumped around like Dodgy in the good old days and it's lovely to see that as some things change...others stay the same
So tell us all, please : "what is the problem with the St Kilda FC"
Go.

I don't know Teflon.

That's why I don't profess to know, nor subscribe to the theories on how to fix them.

I'm a fan foxy always have been
Ask the questions and argue a logic without a position
When that gets dull....switch gear.....then argue the reverse....again, without a clear position
You don't know Bill Shorten by chance?

[rodgerfox]

Fair play to Rodger Fox for identifying the list profile issues back in 2013.

My point is - if Rodger could see it - and many others could see this as far back as 2011 - then surely the current regime also saw it and should have done a better job to manage it?
They had their chance and they mis-managed it. That is now clear. 8 years on.

Can we trust the same group of people to start again from scratch and manage another re-build after they clearly stuffed the last one? Have they learnt their lessons? Everything I have seen or heard so far suggests they havent even conceded there is a problem. Let alone learnt any lessons.

If the current regime came out head on and said this is what we did wrong: A + B + C

And this is what will do next time: D + E +F....

...Then I would accept that and be happy to keep them on.

But that isn't what we have seen or heard. They seem either oblivious, asleep at the wheel or entirely content with being s***-house.
Not sure which one but none of those offerings are good.

I'd dare say that the club did identify it - but there's not much you can do.

It's the same reason Melbourne, Carlton, Brisbane have also taken long times to rebuild. If you could instantly fix a gross list imbalance - they'd all do it. But you can't.

Our rebuild hasn't been botched - it's still going.


The club rolled the dice and spun s*** to keep supporters strung along, and that might be biting them on the arse. And they deserve to be fried for being bullshitters.

But I don't think they've botched anything else to be honest. Yet. Depending on how long they keep Richardson.

[chico2001]

I wasnt aware that Lethlean coached AFL....same level as Grant Thomas and certainly not aware that his record was more successful than GT's. That blew me away and I though I knew a bit about football.

I will make it my mission to follow up this up to a truthful conclusion

[asiu]

ok then

if
... shostack and crew are ready to make their move

first words out of their mouth , after declaring their hand
needs to be

all supporters of our club , need to invest in a Membership
(before this seasons cut off point)

then why

ie
a) ... we need your vote
b) ... its win win for the Club
(if we dont get the numbers to oust the incumbents)

no talk of putting the Club first

Do It
(with the first words that come out of their mouth)

[Linton Lodger]

ok then

if
... shostack and crew are ready to make their move

first words out of their mouth , after declaring their hand
needs to be

all supporters of our club , need to invest in a Membership
(before this seasons cut off point)

then why

ie
a) ... we need your vote
b) ... its win win for the Club
(if we dont get the numbers to oust the incumbents)

no talk of putting the Club first

Do It
(with the first words that come out of their mouth)

If Shostack & co do want to move, then I want to hear their critique of our current incumbents and their plan.

[Linton Lodger]

I wasnt aware that Lethlean coached AFL....same level as Grant Thomas and certainly not aware that his record was more successful than GT's. That blew me away and I though I knew a bit about football.

I will make it my mission to follow up this up to a truthful conclusion

I think it was obvious I meant GT's coaching prior to the Saints as its obvious that Lethlean has never Coached AFL.

[David-Lee]

So i am in my fifties & a 4th generation supporter/member of the saints (my children are 5th)
I can safely say that i have seen it all when it comes to the roller coaster ride of our footy club. And what is the saying...it is never as bad as it seems & never as good as it seems

I can confidently say that the current group of administrators at our footy club are the BEST that i can remember & i go back along along way. Yes that is Summers, Finnis, Lethlean & the Coach. (I listen to and read the same media as everyone else & attend the games)
For the younger supporters on here, the history of the saints is littered with poor & weak administration & no doubt has lead to our infamous history

In my view the most diabolical outcome that could occur is to make wholesale changes to all aspects of the club being Board, CEO, Footy admin & yes the coach.

For once in our history MY WISH is that we show strength & leadership & HOLD OUR NERVE
Yes that includes supporting the Board, Coach & players during these difficult times & backing the decisions they have made
i have faith with current administration

The integrity of an organisation is reflected in decisions made during difficult times - my wish is for our administration to hold firm, continue to fight & demand improved performance

You only have to look at richmond in 2016 with 4 wins and a leadership challenge to confirm that things can turn very quickly for an organisation that stays on course & backs themselves during a period of poor on field performance

Bleeding red, black & white

Thanks for your viewpoint, I wish you had actually read some history before throwing the old...hey look at Richmond adage out there to prove your point.

2013 - 15 - 7 finished 5th played finals
2014 - 12 -10 finished 8th played finals
2015 - 15 - 7 finished 5th played finals
2016 - 8 - 14 finished 13th missed finals
2017 - 15 - 7 finished 3rd played finals

Mark William's and the coaching staff were doing a brilliant job shaping these young lads into champions. But at the end of 2016 the fans wanted a Grand Final so they called for Hardwicks head. Realizing William's was twice the coach he was and was the main reason they had had any success - he did what any mate would and convinced the board it was the coaches fault they'd been to finals 3 out of 4 years
And got them all fired.

2016 they had massive injuries to their core and still got 8 wins. It had a little to do with onfield poor performance but mostly key position players injured....they lost 5 games with Delidio, Reece, Martin, Ivan etc out.


The analogy just doesnt fit our storyline. We are hanging onto a coach and board who over that same period 2013 - have brought us a horrific losing record.

[Con Gorozidis]

Richmond were 50-38 in the four seasons before 2017.

Well and truly positive on the ledger.

It's not like they just came from the bottom and won a flag.

[Cairnsman]

Ok so some bristle at comparisons to Richmond's plight in 2016 and thier decission not to sack Hardwick.

Collingwood and thier decission not to sack Nathan Buckley in 2017 anyone.

[Con Gorozidis]

Ok so some bristle at comparisons to Richmond's plight in 2016 and thier decission not to sack Hardwick.

Collingwood and thier decission not to sack Nathan Buckley in 2017 anyone.

Buckley is batting at 53%.

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/cp- ... uckley--91

If Richo was anywhere near 53% nobody would want to sack him. He isn't even close. A full 20 games or 4 wins per season behind.

So yes. I am bristling.

[rodgerfox]

Ok so some bristle at comparisons to Richmond's plight in 2016 and thier decission not to sack Hardwick.

Collingwood and thier decission not to sack Nathan Buckley in 2017 anyone.

Buckley is batting at 53%.

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/cp- ... uckley--91

If Richo was anywhere near 53% nobody would want to sack him. He isn't even close.

So yes. I am bristling.

He did take over a very decent team though, to be fair.

[Con Gorozidis]

Ok so some bristle at comparisons to Richmond's plight in 2016 and thier decission not to sack Hardwick.

Collingwood and thier decission not to sack Nathan Buckley in 2017 anyone.

Buckley is batting at 53%.

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/cp- ... uckley--91

If Richo was anywhere near 53% nobody would want to sack him. He isn't even close.

So yes. I am bristling.

He did take over a very decent team though, to be fair.

Hang on.
He took over a side that already had peaked and had no high draft picks.
Not much different to we were at in 2012.

It's a stupid comparison. The hard fact is Buckley is light years ahead and has won many more games.

But Richo is a nice guy. So i guess we should stick with him.

[Cairnsman]

So had Buckley been sacked last year would they now be looking like a team that can challenge for this years flag?

[Con Gorozidis]

So had Buckley been sacked last year would they now be looking like a team that can challenge for this years flag?

What are you talking about?
I don't understand your point.
You are trying to create some equivalency that doesn't exist in reality.

If Buckley was on 34% wins he would have been sacked.
But he was on 52%.

What exactly are you trying to say?

[chico2001]

You were bullshitting Linton Lodger and got caught out....bad form all-round. You were never going to get away with putting that rubbish up as a support for Lethlean.

[saynta]

Just LOL.
Seriously.
Finnis and Lethlean. Lethlean !!!!!! No other club would take him. Except us.
Oh sweet Jesus.
Sweet Jesus!

The coach is a half wit.

Comparing the current crop to the Lyon or GT era is plain embarrassing.
Even under Sheldon and Alves we were better.

Finnis is an empty careerist suit placed at the club by AFL HQ. Don't be fooled by the corporate speak.

The club is in existential crisis under the current regime.

Any comparison with Richmond is ignorant in the extreme.

They made 4 of the last 6 finals.

Seriously wake up.

Don't call the coach a half wit ffs.

He doesn't deserve that sort of abuse.
,
Says more about you than it does about Richo.

[Cairnsman]

Accept your point regarding winning % however it amounted for little last year when Pies fans wanted him sacked because they needed a circuit breaker, aka a scapegoat which has been a time honoured tradition in VFL/AFL history.

I think Richmond, Collingwood and the Eagles have bucked that trend and shown that unless the Coach has lost the players and wider staff and that the reason for losses is known and fixable without scapegoats then that is the professional approach and one that won't completely destabilise and derail a club. In fact it might even make you a stronger club.

[saynta]

Mate, Enlighten us on their background in football, let us know what Bains achieved at the club. Ditto for Lethlean who probably has an open wallet from his mate McClachlan to make change. But where has he done it before? Why was he appointed? What have they done at other AFL clubs that stops you in your tracks and makes you go "hire them"?

I would'nt buy a TV off them ...thats for sure.....St KIlda always ends up with the snakeoil merchants.....club is riddled with them.

Whats the fascination with Lawyers?

cheers

Was your post directed at me.

If so, what do you have against lawyers?

I have seen Simon's CV. He is as qualified as any one else in the field to hold his current position. imho.

[Junior]

Buckley inherited a list that made the grand final.

Richo inherited a basket case that some thought would not win a game.

Buckley went backwards every year other than this, Richo improved in his first few.

Winning percentages are great but need to be taken in context to where the team was when you took over.

For example would anyone expect Dew to have a better winning percentage than Pyke?

Richo is rightly under the pump due to how we are currently performing but I believe he over achieved in his first three seasons and under achieved this year and last.

But if we are going to change coach it needs to be for a proven coach, don’t see the point of changing for an untried coach.

[Con Gorozidis]

Collingwood finished 2017 with 9.5 wins and a % of 99.

So if Richo wins 8 of the last 10 and we win by big enough margins to get our % up to 99 then we will all be pretty happy.

Good luck with that.

[Con Gorozidis]

Buckley inherited a list that made the grand final.

Richo inherited a basket case that some thought would not win a game.

Buckley went backwards every year other than this, Richo improved in his first few.

Winning percentages are great but need to be taken in context to where the team was when you took over.

For example would anyone expect Dew to have a better winning percentage than Pyke?

Richo is rightly under the pump due to how we are currently performing but I believe he over achieved in his first three seasons and under achieved this year and last.

But if we are going to change coach it needs to be for a proven coach, don’t see the point of changing for an untried coach.

Richo has coached 100 games.

Nobody is judging Dew, Bolton or Fagan on win % yet.

But I can absolutely assure you they will be by the time they have coached 100 games (If they last that long).

How was North's list looking this time last year?

How was Port's list looking when Hinkley took over?

What do people think is a fair amount of time before we can judge?

150 games? 200 games?

[rodgerfox]

Ok so some bristle at comparisons to Richmond's plight in 2016 and thier decission not to sack Hardwick.

Collingwood and thier decission not to sack Nathan Buckley in 2017 anyone.

Buckley is batting at 53%.

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/cp- ... uckley--91

If Richo was anywhere near 53% nobody would want to sack him. He isn't even close.

So yes. I am bristling.

He did take over a very decent team though, to be fair.

Hang on.
He took over a side that already had peaked and had no high draft picks.
Not much different to we were at in 2012.

It's a stupid comparison. The hard fact is Buckley is light years ahead and has won many more games.

But Richo is a nice guy. So i guess we should stick with him.

?

Didn't Buckley take over Collingwood only 12 months after a GF and 24 months after a Premiership?

Richardson took over the Saints in 2014.


Con, you're tiptoeing on the irrational line these days.

[Con Gorozidis]

Ok so some bristle at comparisons to Richmond's plight in 2016 and thier decission not to sack Hardwick.

Collingwood and thier decission not to sack Nathan Buckley in 2017 anyone.

Buckley is batting at 53%.

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/cp- ... uckley--91

If Richo was anywhere near 53% nobody would want to sack him. He isn't even close.

So yes. I am bristling.

He did take over a very decent team though, to be fair.

Hang on.
He took over a side that already had peaked and had no high draft picks.
Not much different to we were at in 2012.

It's a stupid comparison. The hard fact is Buckley is light years ahead and has won many more games.

But Richo is a nice guy. So i guess we should stick with him.

?

Didn't Buckley take over Collingwood only 12 months after a GF and 24 months after a Premiership?

Richardson took over the Saints in 2014.


Con, you're tiptoeing on the irrational line these days.

I'm irrational?

Buckley is clearly a better performed coach than Richo on any measure. It is not even comparable.

Only the most one eyed biased Saint would dispute this.

And you call me irrational. Don't you work in a big 4? You aren't very bright.

Collingwood haven't played finals since 2013.
They fell as low as 12th. No lower.
It is now 2018 and they are back up in the 8.

Are you honestly trying to make a case that Richo is comparable to Buckley?

Seriously?

Collingwood have never had a % below 90 under Buckley.

We are in the 60s.

Seriously get a grip on reality dude.

I gather numbers aren't your thing.

Or logic for that matter.

What area do you work in?

[rodgerfox]

Ok so some bristle at comparisons to Richmond's plight in 2016 and thier decission not to sack Hardwick.

Collingwood and thier decission not to sack Nathan Buckley in 2017 anyone.

Buckley is batting at 53%.

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/cp- ... uckley--91

If Richo was anywhere near 53% nobody would want to sack him. He isn't even close.

So yes. I am bristling.

He did take over a very decent team though, to be fair.

Hang on.
He took over a side that already had peaked and had no high draft picks.
Not much different to we were at in 2012.

It's a stupid comparison. The hard fact is Buckley is light years ahead and has won many more games.

But Richo is a nice guy. So i guess we should stick with him.

?

Didn't Buckley take over Collingwood only 12 months after a GF and 24 months after a Premiership?

Richardson took over the Saints in 2014.


Con, you're tiptoeing on the irrational line these days.

I'm irrational?

Buckley is clearly a better performed coach than Richo on any measure. It is not even comparable.

Only the most one eyed biased Saint would dispute this.

And you call me irrational. Don't you work in a big 4? You aren't very bright.

Collingwood haven't played finals since 2013.
They fell as low as 12th. No lower.
It is now 2018 and they are back up in the 8.

Are you honestly trying to make a case that Richo is comparable to Buckley?

Seriously?

Collingwood have never had a % below 90 under Buckley.

We are in the 60s.

Seriously get a grip on reality dude.

I gather numbers aren't your thing.

Or logic for that matter.

What area do you work in?

Barely a single sentence of that reply has any relevance to my post.

Hence, even moreso - you are becoming completely irrational.