25-11 "The Noise Of Affirmation" Raise this with Gill Richo.

[CarlD]

I would like to see what happens if umpires wore ear plugs/headphones to take out the crowd noise - maybe they could adjudicate with their eyes and not their ears

[Sainter_Dad]

Free kick differential in last 4 games against the Eagles - +56 - their way, of course.

A lot of ours were missed last night, as were a lot of our marks. Over to you Richo and Summers.

Plus 56 sounds bad - but when you add to the fact that it os 3 - 1 in their favour.
95 - 39

Does not compute!

[the dome]

Thanks again to St Byron for these bizzarro stats.

Free kick differential stats for 2011 - 2015 :
Eagles +349 ! ! !
Carlton +112
Is this institutionalised corruption that in spite of the 5 years of 2011-2015 still continues in 2018 ?

Amazing to contemplate that Carlton as the 2nd. biggest receiver of free-kicks during (2011-15) would have to TRIPLE
their number of given free-kicks & even then they wouldn't reach the lofty heights of given free-kicks that the coasters received from 2011-2015.

[Sainter_Dad]

Amazing to contemplate that Carlton as the 2nd. biggest receiver of free-kicks DIFFERENTIAL during (2011-15) would have to TRIPLE their number of given free-kicks DIFFERENTIAL & even then they wouldn't reach the lofty heights of given free-kicks that the coasters received from 2011-2015.

FTFY

Carlton would need to TRIPLE their free kick differential or 2.15 extra free kicks per game

[WellardSaint]

it's exactly like having an extra player on the ground, especially where the frees are given- in front of their goals, and frees missed in front of our goals.

[Enrico_Misso]

So what is our club going to do about it?

Make some noise?
Or just roll over - AGAIN?

[bigcarl]

You’re never going to get a fair run from the umpires over there unless you are a very good side who can take the crowd out of the equation early.

We get no respect from the umpires because our form doesn’t demand it. They know they’ll get away with it because it’s only St Kilda.

[WellardSaint]

You’re never going to get a fair run from the umpires over there unless you are a very good side who can take the crowd out of the equation early.

We get no respect from the umpires because our form doesn’t demand it. They know they’ll get away with it because it’s only St Kilda.

the fact that the crowd makes so much noise, is a proven influencer.
Also, the WCE winning 10 in a row, and us losing so many, has the umps biased-
they will judge us more harshly because we are a poorer side.

WCE can get away with blue murder because they are "more skilled"

[desertsaint]

It's a number of factors, one of which is the colour blue. no i'm not joking.
the other factors are home crowds, style of play, success, reputation.

[SMS]

Gresham
Nic Nat - Marl 50m
Nic Nat - clear throw inside our 50m


We beat them I truly believe that.
Think about that. We beat them without youngest size at Perth.

[stkfc1]

62 more disposals 15 more tackles but 13 less free kicks,Saints won the clearances,inside 50 and the contested possessions. Nothing to see here AFL, move on...

[mullet]

62 more disposals 15 more tackles but 13 less free kicks,Saints won the clearances,inside 50 and the contested possessions. Nothing to see here AFL, move on...

Perhaps we need to look at how we are tackling.

Personally I would hate the club to complain about the umpiring. Sends a bad message to the players. As much as it is quite obvious that WC have an unfair advantage, I would hope that the club are working on using what the boys did to take a step further and actually have a win. 2 weeks in a row we have come close. Maybe this is the week. I still think the benefit of all this will not be until next season, but as long as the boys are gaining confidence from what they are doing then it wont be long before they are rewarded with a win. And we are rewarded too. Lets get there next week and really get behind them. No loser "its the umpires" mentality, even though the facts dont lie. Lets win in spite of all this bias

[satchmo]

It's a number of factors, one of which is the colour blue. no i'm not joking.
the other factors are home crowds, style of play, success, reputation.

afl.com has the headline "Darling goes down". I haven't read the story, but I presume this is about the very same topic.

[saynta]

I posted this in July 2016. Nothing has changed.

In the last ten years West Coast Eagles :

First or second in 'Free Kicks For" every year except one when they were fourth.
Last or second last in "Free Kicks Against" every year bar one. The least free kicks against an astonishing six times in ten years. What are the odds in an 18 team competition?

And those stats are for all games. Imagine how it looks if you only take their home games into account.

This from the Hun last year :

"The Eagles have won a staggering 349 more free kicks than they have conceded in the past five years — a differential three times bigger than their nearest rival.

But it’s at Subiaco, at the aptly nicknamed “House of Pain”, where West Coast gets the biggest advantage from whistleblowers.

Since the start of 2011, the Eagles have lost the free kick count in only four of 46 matches on home soil against interstate sides — a success rate of 91 per cent.

Incredibly, West Coast is also one of only two clubs to win more free kicks than it loses on the road, where it boasts a +63 free kick differential."

The umpires boss at the time, Wayne Campbell when asked about it said,

“The answer is, I don’t know. There’s just got to be a combination of things. Perhaps it’s the style of play, the crowd, winning games or that home sides win more than they lose. They must be disciplined in either not giving away free kicks or getting free kicks because it happens away from home as well.”


That's it Wayne. They're disciplined. Nothing to do with the umpires being intimidated by the crowd.

No way there's a massive issue with the bias towards WCE at home. Move along. Nothing to see. Jaysus.....look at these stats.


Free kick differential stats for 2011 - 2015 :

West Coast Eagles +349

Carlton +112

Port Adelaide +107

North Melbourne +76

Adelaide Crows +48

Richmond +37

Collingwood +17

Western Bulldogs-8

Geelong Cats -23

GWS Giants -25

Sydney Swans -26

Hawthorn-35

Fremantle-56

Essendon-64

Melbourne -83

Gold Coast Suns -106

St Kilda -137

Brisbane Lions -183

And here's me thinking that you had your "maggot love glasses"on when watching saints games.

[The OtherThommo]

I posted this in July 2016. Nothing has changed.

In the last ten years West Coast Eagles :

First or second in 'Free Kicks For" every year except one when they were fourth.
Last or second last in "Free Kicks Against" every year bar one. The least free kicks against an astonishing six times in ten years. What are the odds in an 18 team competition?

And those stats are for all games. Imagine how it looks if you only take their home games into account.

This from the Hun last year :

"The Eagles have won a staggering 349 more free kicks than they have conceded in the past five years — a differential three times bigger than their nearest rival.

But it’s at Subiaco, at the aptly nicknamed “House of Pain”, where West Coast gets the biggest advantage from whistleblowers.

Since the start of 2011, the Eagles have lost the free kick count in only four of 46 matches on home soil against interstate sides — a success rate of 91 per cent.

Incredibly, West Coast is also one of only two clubs to win more free kicks than it loses on the road, where it boasts a +63 free kick differential."

The umpires boss at the time, Wayne Campbell when asked about it said,

“The answer is, I don’t know. There’s just got to be a combination of things. Perhaps it’s the style of play, the crowd, winning games or that home sides win more than they lose. They must be disciplined in either not giving away free kicks or getting free kicks because it happens away from home as well.”


That's it Wayne. They're disciplined. Nothing to do with the umpires being intimidated by the crowd.

No way there's a massive issue with the bias towards WCE at home. Move along. Nothing to see. Jaysus.....look at these stats.


Free kick differential stats for 2011 - 2015 :

West Coast Eagles +349

Carlton +112

Port Adelaide +107

North Melbourne +76

Adelaide Crows +48

Richmond +37

Collingwood +17

Western Bulldogs-8

Geelong Cats -23

GWS Giants -25

Sydney Swans -26

Hawthorn-35

Fremantle-56

Essendon-64

Melbourne -83

Gold Coast Suns -106

St Kilda -137

Brisbane Lions -183

And here's me thinking that you had your "maggot love glasses"on when watching saints games.

Just thought I'd pop in for the first time in a while, just to give St.B's thesis a little kick along. This is a copy of a note just sent to the cohort, amid a discussion about how things are travelling after last night's indications (I've been using St.B's evidence as a base);

Further noos on the ‘run’ Wet Toast still seem to be on with the Maggots;

From 2011 – 2015, the club with the greatest free kick differential?

Wet Toast, of course - +349

2nd on the table over that same period – Caaaaaaaaarlton - +112

The full table over that 5 year period;

Free kick differential stats for 2011 - 2015 :

West Coast Eagles +349

Carlton +112

Port Adelaide +107

North Melbourne +76

Adelaide Crows +48

Richmond +37

Collingwood +17

Western Bulldogs-8

Geelong Cats -23

GWS Giants -25

Sydney Swans -26

Hawthorn-35

Fremantle-56

Essendon-64

Melbourne -83

Gold Coast Suns -106

St Kilda -137

Brisbane Lions -183

Now let’s double the 5 years, and look at the full decade leading up to 2015;

In the last ten years West Coast Eagles :

First or second in 'Free Kicks For" every year except one when they were fourth.
Last or second last in "Free Kicks Against" every year bar one. The least free kicks against an astonishing six times in ten years. What are the odds in an 18 team competition?

And those stats are for all games. Imagine how it looks if you only take their home games into account.

Back to the 5 years b/w ’11 and ’15, for home vs away games;

This from the Hun last year :

"The Eagles have won a staggering 349 more free kicks than they have conceded in the past five years — a differential three times bigger than their nearest rival.

But it’s at Subiaco, at the aptly nicknamed “House of Pain”, where West Coast gets the biggest advantage from whistleblowers.

Since the start of 2011, the Eagles have lost the free kick count in only four of 46 matches on home soil against interstate sides — a success rate of 91 per cent.

Incredibly, West Coast is also one of only two clubs to win more free kicks than it loses on the road, where it boasts a +63 free kick differential."

At the time, Wayne Campbell was the Maggots’ boss. He began his answer to ‘Why is it so, Wayno?’ with “The answer is, I don’t know’.

Then he speculated - There’s just got to be a combination of things. Perhaps it’s the style of play, the crowd, winning games or that home sides win more than they lose. They must be disciplined in either not giving away free kicks or getting free kicks because it happens away from home as well.”

Boil that down, and what have you got? Wet Toast are more “disciplined” (what caught him was the away game differential, and all he had left was “discipline”).

The differential cannot be explained by the sorts of things Campbell (and every other motherfucker) tries, particularly when there are numerous other sides who better, meet or come close to Wet Toast in those same on field performance criteria, where they play, and how.

So, I’ll tell you the primary reason it happens so consistently, and is still happening;

It’s the colour combination they wear. Not just the blue – but, Caaaarlton, who were miles away from Wet Toast, and numerous others, against Campbell’s criteria, did finish 2nd in differential over that 5 years from ’11 – ’15.

I’m tellin’ ya, it’s the combination of colours. Nothing else explains the whopping differential that only applies to them

They don’t need to ask the likes of Campbell.

They need to ask a psychologist.

Ergo, they won’t.

The only hope to take out the influence of the colour combination would be to hypnotise every f****** maggot and, while they’re under, batter into their heads to ignore the colours, and just watch the mechanics of the play in front of them.

IIRC, we have had the worst free kick differential every year in 10, bar 1. Memory tells me it’s that same 10 year period covered above i.e. up to the end of ’15. Anyone like to bet me it’s improved since? And, remember, for more than half of that 10 year period, we were up the top end, played at least as well as Wet Toast at E’had, as they did at home, and our crowds were just as noisily ‘enthusiastic’ – in a closer atmosphere – as Wet Toast have ever been – and still we finished bottom 9 out of 10 years in the eyes of the Maggots.

Either they hypnotise the bias out of the Maggots, or we change our jumper colours.

Either of those would be ‘Pleasing, and very, very positive’ in outcome.

T
P.S. Go back and have a look at the ’11 – ’15 differential table. How many sides do you see with a positive differential, and have red in their jumper? Adelaide Crows, right? What are the other colours in the Crows jumpers? (Navy) Blue and gold – the Wet Toast colours! The club on the table with the smallest negative differential? The Doggies – a red band on a dominant blue jumper. And, we’ve got a dirty great red panel, right next to a white panel, just for contrast. This is just science. Think cars, and who buys what coloured ‘beefier’ vehicles. I started to learn this when I found out I was red-green colour blind (it happens in degrees). Then I went and spent 27 years working in an industry that has much to do with colours, and target markets for those colours.

P.P.S. Finding out I was red-green ‘deficient’ (as they call it) did help explain why I had such a calm and relaxed demeanour – I couldn’t properly differentiate red from green. The flip side of that coin is when I do get ‘angry’, I know I’m not being driven by bog standard primal urges. Ergo, I know when I do get wound up, I’m f****** RIGHT, SO f*** OFF YOU RIGHT SIGHTED MOTHERFUCKIN’ IMBECILES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[st.byron]

And here's me thinking that you had your "maggot love glasses"on when watching saints games.

No mate. I just don’t buy the notion that they’re deliberately out to get us, or anyone for that matter.

[st.byron]

You need to send it to the media, someone who has the guts to bring it to light

Trouble is Mullet that some of those stats I got from the media. It’s well known and it’s in the too hard basket.

[saynta]

And here's me thinking that you had your "maggot love glasses"on when watching saints games.

No mate. I just don’t buy the notion that they’re deliberately out to get us, or anyone for that matter.

Just between you and me though, like keep it a secret, the filthy maggots are corrupt. They cheat and I wouldn't be surprised if they bet on AFL results.

I am friends with the father of one and he tells me he is trying to ween his son off his gambling habit' A habit I'm told he shares with his mates. I didn't ask if his mates were

also umpires.

To tell you the truth, I don't know why they repeatedly screw us over year after year, no matter if we are the best team, or the worst., all I know is that they do.

The statistics only serve to prove it.

[The OtherThommo]

And here's me thinking that you had your "maggot love glasses"on when watching saints games.

No mate. I just don’t buy the notion that they’re deliberately out to get us, or anyone for that matter.

Further to the earlier, St.B, and because I agree with you that it's not a deliberate (conscious) bias, and it is the colour combination that makes the ultimate difference, this is the follow up note to the cohort;

"Further, Cuz’s daughter completed a Fine Arts degree and, for years, has been eking out a very solid income in interior design.

Reckon the psychology behind combinations of colours might be important to the likes of Jacinta?

https://www.google.com.au/search?q=fine ... e&ie=UTF-8 "

[Yorkeys]

Its also very hard to get an LBW decision in Perth against the WA Shield team. Its a different country over there and the officials need to keep safe. Apparently they are (only) human.

[Life Long Saint]

62 more disposals 15 more tackles but 13 less free kicks,Saints won the clearances,inside 50 and the contested possessions. Nothing to see here AFL, move on...

Perhaps we need to look at how we are tackling.

The tackle count in the official stats would only count tackles that are fair. So it's not our technique that's the issue.
It also doesn't mean that we are second for the ball. More possessions, more contested possessions, and more clearances means that we had no trouble winning our own footy and being first in.
The high tackle count means that we laid 15 more legal and effective tackles than the Eagles.

On the frees, it's the ones that aren't paid that matter most.

Want to see bias in Melbourne? Watch the Dogs or Kangaroos and tell me that they don't get a dream run. No noise of affirmation at their games but geez they both get looked after.
Maybe it's the blue!

[stevie]

I didn’t see the game but asked my sons footy coach - a mad Eagle fan - if the umps gave them an armchair ride early. He sorta sheepishly nodded, ‘yeah’. So it was noticed

[samuraisaint]

Not just early Stevie. They got ten free kicks in the third quarter.

[yipper]

Last 5 games we have played eagles in perth"

24/6
24/13
23/8
22/11
and last night 25/11

all to the home side.

against Richmond - a seasoned and disciplined outfit - jut 2 weeks ago; 21/10 west cost way!!???

there is a bias towards them no doubt about it ...question is why?? Is it deliberate or accidental? And is anything being said or done about it.

[stevie]

Not just early Stevie. They got ten free kicks in the third quarter.

That sux bro