We're on Track

[6621104]

how the pendulum swings- from optimism to pessimism. I prefer realism. Yes, perhaps I was the first wet blanket to post after a series of optimistic supporting posts yet I do not subscribe to the doom and gloom either. I think the rest of this year will tell us a lot, and so it is a little early to call one way or the other - mainly about which of the middle rung can progress.
I still think McCartin is worth a spot as we have to get games into him to know whether he will cut the mustard. We must give the youngsters time on the ground, and keep that back 6 that played last week. Austin, Rice, Webster, Carlisle and add Coffield and Roberton (plus a smoky (Clavarino) and we will look good in a year or two). Geary plays as there is no one else at the minute.
Unlike others I rate the Bruce of 2016/7 - with him and Membrey running opponents into the ground and McCartin at pivot we have the talls to worry anybody. Who knows about BAttle.
Midfield- Acres, Clarke, Steele, Steven are keepers - Ross/Dunstan get a lot of the ball but need to make it pay - or they is just Clint Jones clones. They could be tradeable.
Gresham- yes
Phillips looks like a yes.
The ruck is a problem
we need two gun midfielders - one draft/one free agent


then we are talking!

[Crossy66]

how the pendulum swings- from optimism to pessimism. I prefer realism. Yes, perhaps I was the first wet blanket to post after a series of optimistic supporting posts yet I do not subscribe to the doom and gloom either. I think the rest of this year will tell us a lot, and so it is a little early to call one way or the other - mainly about which of the middle rung can progress.
I still think McCartin is worth a spot as we have to get games into him to know whether he will cut the mustard. We must give the youngsters time on the ground, and keep that back 6 that played last week. Austin, Rice, Webster, Carlisle and add Coffield and Roberton (plus a smoky (Clavarino) and we will look good in a year or two). Geary plays as there is no one else at the minute.
Unlike others I rate the Bruce of 2016/7 - with him and Membrey running opponents into the ground and McCartin at pivot we have the talls to worry anybody. Who knows about BAttle.
Midfield- Acres, Clarke, Steele, Steven are keepers - Ross/Dunstan get a lot of the ball but need to make it pay - or they is just Clint Jones clones. They could be tradeable.
Gresham- yes
Phillips looks like a yes.
The ruck is a problem
we need two gun midfielders - one draft/one free agent


then we are talking!

+1

[saint64]

Paddy is going to be a jet. We need Paddy, Bruce and Members to play out the year together and build a chemistry. Them not being able to play together is arguably the single most reason why our progress has stalled.

Tall forward lines will be back in vogue by seasons end and if West Coast win the flag then Richmond's small forward line will be confirmed for what it always was, a one hit wonder.

Arguably our 3 tall forwards being injured and not being able to play together is what has caused the most instability in the team setup and development.

Benny is going to be a jet. I think our best tall forward combination is going to be Bruce, Members and Battle.

[chico2001]

Thought I seen a spare tyre on McCartin against the Tigers, couldnt believe it after he has been 2-3 years in the AFL system. Cant be fit and has probably never been fit. Apart from that he has the concussion problem. Not dogging him just the saints Team management, almost unbelievable. Can you imagine this happening in the NFL. Where is the player development and importantly looking after his welfare? Has played 30 games.
Compare him to Jesse hogan who has played 60 games including some major issues along the way and has kicked 135 goals.

Take McCartin back to the 2nds for a season, let him develop a bit more. You be the judge. Cant see why the saints want to rush him through, if he cant kick 50 a year in the magoos , how is he going to do it at the top level?

[Cairnsman]

Benny is going to be a jet for sure. I was so disappointed for 2 reasons when he injured himself, firstly because he was becoming a joy to watch and secondly because it robbed him of games for his development.

[Cairnsman]

Paddy in the seconds wouldn't help IMO, isn't he way too good for VFL standard. Isn't the best outcome for his fitness and development to play out the whole year without interruption, and hopefully with Bruce and Members along side him.

If that happens I recon we will see some cause for optimism towards the end of the season.

Bookmark this.

[saintadamski]

Of course you would cough up the pill more often if you were in the thick of the fight like Petracca is....anyone would, when 4 or 5 guys are trying to get the ball off you
The fact that he wins more contested possessions is a huge stat, as Billings can't win a one on one to save his life.
Billings was a huge mistake...from now on, contested possession kings, with hardness and strength.
Until then, we will be eating with a wooden spoon for decades to come.
Trade Billings now while we still have time. Another year of his rubbish will make him un-tradeable.

Not quite right, Billings averages 6.08 contested possessions pg versus 9.92 petracca - so he can get one to save his life. Also important to have a few outside types in any team. In fact i think we have a couple to many in and under types. Also have a look at the 2013 draft up to our next pick at 18 and with the exception of Bont and perhaps Cripps, he would still go around 4th or fifth (ahead of Boyd)

The Billings faithful...hope, faith, more hope.
I'm less religious about the whole thing - and more scientific.
I know what I see week in week out....for 5 years now.
Let's take the hope and faith out of it...let's act on the fact. Trade him while he still has other clubs hoping and praying as well.

[Crossy66]

Of course you would cough up the pill more often if you were in the thick of the fight like Petracca is....anyone would, when 4 or 5 guys are trying to get the ball off you
The fact that he wins more contested possessions is a huge stat, as Billings can't win a one on one to save his life.
Billings was a huge mistake...from now on, contested possession kings, with hardness and strength.
Until then, we will be eating with a wooden spoon for decades to come.
Trade Billings now while we still have time. Another year of his rubbish will make him un-tradeable.

Not quite right, Billings averages 6.08 contested possessions pg versus 9.92 petracca - so he can get one to save his life. Also important to have a few outside types in any team. In fact i think we have a couple to many in and under types. Also have a look at the 2013 draft up to our next pick at 18 and with the exception of Bont and perhaps Cripps, he would still go around 4th or fifth (ahead of Boyd)

The Billings faithful...hope, faith, more hope.
I'm less religious about the whole thing - and more scientific.
I know what I see week in week out....for 5 years now.
Let's take the hope and faith out of it...let's act on the fact. Trade him while he still has other clubs hoping and praying as well.

So what do you think any other club would offer up for this hack? Whats the worst offer you would accept?

[saintadamski]

You wouldn't get any better than a second round pick, and possibly another average player thrown in
I don't believe that any club would give a first round selection for him

[saynta]

Billing isn't going anywhere.

[saintadamski]

Billing isn't going anywhere.

I know....and thus neither are the Saints
He is our own personal Jack Watts...yay

[saint64]

Paddy in the seconds wouldn't help IMO, isn't he way too good for VFL standard. Isn't the best outcome for his fitness and development to play out the whole year without interruption, and hopefully with Bruce and Members along side him.

If that happens I recon we will see some cause for optimism towards the end of the season.

Bookmark this.

Is Paddy too good for VFL though? The times he has played there when he has been fit he hasn't exactly set the world on fire. From what I have seen of Battle he is a better mark, better kick and a much better athlete than Paddy is capable of being.

[saintadamski]

Paddy in the seconds wouldn't help IMO, isn't he way too good for VFL standard. Isn't the best outcome for his fitness and development to play out the whole year without interruption, and hopefully with Bruce and Members along side him.

If that happens I recon we will see some cause for optimism towards the end of the season.

Bookmark this.

Is Paddy too good for VFL though? The times he has played there when he has been fit he hasn't exactly set the world on fire. From what I have seen of Battle he is a better mark, better kick and a much better athlete than Paddy is capable of being.

Battle is a better all round athlete - I rate him in much higher esteem - in fact, I think he will be a gun

[Crossy66]

You wouldn't get any better than a second round pick, and possibly another average player thrown in
I don't believe that any club would give a first round selection for him

So based on that i would rather keep him than flog him off for a potential pick in the 30's.
I understand the frustration, but if he kicked straight, he would be kicking 3 or 4 goals a game and you would be running around with number 15 on your duffle coat by now .
Very classy player and I reckon he will sort out his goal kicking and be a good player for us.

[chico2001]

Cant agree cairnsman but I see your point. That is what is wrong with the saints, picking a player who has not showed consistency in kicking regular goals every week even in the VFL. He is playing because he was No 1 pick....no other reason. His marking is average, his kicking is poor for a full forward and he is not fit and that cannot be disputed. Sometimes he cant even kick 40 metres, so why would people firstly, say he is the "future" and secondly pick him at full forward in The AFL. I would like him to kick 2 goals a game from now on to prove me wrong, will that happen? He has played 8 games this year for 6 goals....so basically played most games. If people are going to talk about how good he is or going to be, when is he going to produce? A player has to be fit before he plays, not try and build up base fitness during games.

[saintadamski]

You wouldn't get any better than a second round pick, and possibly another average player thrown in
I don't believe that any club would give a first round selection for him

So based on that i would rather keep him than flog him off for a potential pick in the 30's.
I understand the frustration, but if he kicked straight, he would be kicking 3 or 4 goals a game and you would be running around with number 15 on your duffle coat by now .
Very classy player and I reckon he will sort out his goal kicking and be a good player for us.

I disagree wholeheartedly
There are some awesome players in the 30s and 40s - all you need is a good recruiting department
examples:
Pick 43 Geelong - Esava Ratugolea
Pick 36 Hawthorn - Sam Mitchell
Pick 37 Saints - Leigh Montagna
Pick 38 Geelong Cameron Ling
Pick 43 Sydney - Adam Goodes
Pick 44 Crows - Rory Sloane
Pick 58 Pies - Dane Swan
Pick 40 Geelong - Gary Ablett Jr
Pick 33 Brisbane - Shaun Hart
Pick 47 North - Brent Harvey
Pick 71 Bulldogs - Brian Lake

and the list goes on and on...
We keep playing Billings because we got him at pick 3....and then we hope...and we pray - and we delude ourselves...that one day...just one day they'll turn into the star that we always thought a number 3 should be.
It didn't take 5 years for any of the players mentioned above to show promise that's for sure

[chico2001]

I cant see Billings being traded at this stage but he definitely needs to pick up his kicking accuracy around the field and at goal. If he is any good he should be kicking 2 goals a game and handing off a couple as well and that should be a good return for a bloke his size. What is his size anyway ?, I keep hearing he is 6 ft plus in the old but I am not convinced.

[David-Lee]

Good post.

Fortunes can turn quickly at footy clubs in the space of a couple seasons. I currently think the Saints don't have a bottom 4 list at all. The season has gone to s*** and its not good enough, but the club has to re-align its expectations and where we are really at. It is happening right now.

Some might disagree, but this horrid season might be a blessing in disguise as:
-more youngsters have got a look in due to injury and form
-we have found around 5 new players like Phillips, Long, Rice, etc
-youngish players that have been in the system already have another season under their belt
-we will get a top 5 pick in 2019
-much easier draw now in 2019
-the entire club, its staff and how it operates will have a good review at season's end
-the club will now go harder for A grade talent

Well, I guess your thoughts are genuinely delusional. You "think" we arent a bottom 4 side...wake UP!!! WE ARE A BOTTOM FOUR SIDE WE ARE 3RD FROM THE BOTTOM!! Or dont your "thoughts" let you read the ladder?

[dragit]

You wouldn't get any better than a second round pick, and possibly another average player thrown in
I don't believe that any club would give a first round selection for him

So based on that i would rather keep him than flog him off for a potential pick in the 30's.
I understand the frustration, but if he kicked straight, he would be kicking 3 or 4 goals a game and you would be running around with number 15 on your duffle coat by now .
Very classy player and I reckon he will sort out his goal kicking and be a good player for us.

I disagree wholeheartedly
There are some awesome players in the 30s and 40s - all you need is a good recruiting department
examples:
Pick 43 Geelong - Esava Ratugolea
Pick 36 Hawthorn - Sam Mitchell
Pick 37 Saints - Leigh Montagna
Pick 38 Geelong Cameron Ling
Pick 43 Sydney - Adam Goodes
Pick 44 Crows - Rory Sloane
Pick 58 Pies - Dane Swan
Pick 40 Geelong - Gary Ablett Jr
Pick 33 Brisbane - Shaun Hart
Pick 47 North - Brent Harvey
Pick 71 Bulldogs - Brian Lake

and the list goes on and on...
We keep playing Billings because we got him at pick 3....and then we hope...and we pray - and we delude ourselves...that one day...just one day they'll turn into the star that we always thought a number 3 should be.
It didn't take 5 years for any of the players mentioned above to show promise that's for sure

Lol, what are this weeks lotto numbers bruh?

Billings will be fine, just needs some good players around him and his confidence will return.

[asiu]

lol @#15onyadufflecoat

ahhh very good

[The Fireman]

we're on track alright and the train is coming....actually I think it has already arrived.

sorry about the negativity guys .. I am getting old and somehow I can only deal with reality. sorry.

[saintadamski]

dragit said
"Lol, what are this weeks lotto numbers bruh?
Billings will be fine, just needs some good players around him and his confidence will return."

So you are saying that guessing the lottery is the same as identifying talent on the football field?... luck of the draw?
Perhaps you and Elshaug should team up - you would be a fantastic addition to our recruiting team. Maybe you can spin a bingo drum and choose your draft pick on whatever number comes out.

I love it - we get beaten by 30 to 50 points every game and we are "On the right track".
You've got to love the delusional dreamers.
We are very much a bottom side, with a bottom list.
We are NOT on the right track. But this can be changed...by identifying the delusion, and cleansing the list.

I make no apologies for this view. It is based on fact - not fiction or dreams

[rodgerfox]

dragit said
"Lol, what are this weeks lotto numbers bruh?
Billings will be fine, just needs some good players around him and his confidence will return."

So you are saying that guessing the lottery is the same as identifying talent on the football field?... luck of the draw?
Perhaps you and Elshaug should team up - you would be a fantastic addition to our recruiting team. Maybe you can spin a bingo drum and choose your draft pick on whatever number comes out.

I love it - we get beaten by 30 to 50 points every game and we are "On the right track".
You've got to love the delusional dreamers.
We are very much a bottom side, with a bottom list.
We are NOT on the right track. But this can be changed...by identifying the delusion, and cleansing the list.

I make no apologies for this view. It is based on fact - not fiction or dreams

We are absolutely a bottom team. No doubt.

But like Carlton and Brisbane, I think that it is pretty much expected.

Our list is horrendous in terms of good senior players, and only Ok in terms of medium aged players.

How on earth could we expect to be anything other than very ordinary?


However, I think we are still on track to be a really good team once our middle aged guys become the senior group, and our young guys become the middle aged guys.


Why would our rebuild be any different to Melbourne, Carlton and Brisbane's?

[saintadamski]

what is middle aged exactly?
Jack Steven is 28...is that middle aged?
Geary is 30 - is that middle aged?
Gilbert is 31 - middle aged?
Savage is 27 - middle aged?
Armitage is 29 - middle aged?

So is Senior between 35 and 45 playing in the veterans league?...I'm confused

Who are our "really good middle aged guys" exactly, that are going to become A grade 'seniors'?

Our current rebuild is markedly similar to the Melbourne rebuild of the early 2000s...Jack Watts, Trengove etc

Their current rebuild is SIGNIFICANTLY different to us now
Hard nosed aggressive players with pace and attack at the contest - this all after they dumped the previous recruitment manager.

[rodgerfox]

what is middle aged exactly?
Jack Steven is 28...is that middle aged?
Geary is 30 - is that middle aged?
Gilbert is 31 - middle aged?
Savage is 27 - middle aged?
So is Senior between 35 and 45?...I'm confused

Who are our "really good middle aged guys" exactly?

I think when Carlisle, Steven, Ross, Bruce, Membrey and Hickey are the 'old guys', and McCartin, Acres, Gresham, Billings, Steele, Long, Webster, Sinclair, White and Marshall are the middle aged core - we'll have Hunter-Clarke, Coffield and whoever we draft this year and next as our young guys.

That's realistically when we'll be any good. And I think we're well and truly still on track in that sense.

I think an easy draw, no injuries and Nick Riewoldt gave fans a false sense of our development and tricked people into forgetting that we're still rebuilding.