Holy snapping duck pooh! They noticed!

[bigred]

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/sai ... 4zgn8.html

t Kilda has identified the club’s second tier of players – those who have passed 50 games, rather than the team leaders – as a primary reason for the Saints slumping to 16th in the first part of this season.
St Kilda’s head of football Simon Lethlean, who presented to the club board with coach Alan Richardson last Thursday night, said the Saints were not extracting the most out of their playing list in the opening nine rounds of 2018.
‘‘We’re just not getting the maximum out of our list at the moment,’’ Lethlean told The Age, echoing what he told the club board.
Lethlean said it was the ‘‘next level of players’’ – the second tier who he said had played ‘‘50-plus [games]’’ – who were not performing up to their capabilities so far this season.
‘‘Our leadership group are all playing pretty well,’’ he said. ‘‘Our leaders are doing their bit. We need more from some others.’’

The leadership group consists of skipper Jarryn Geary, vice-captain Seb Ross, Jack Steven, Jack Newnes and defender Dylan Roberton, who is sidelined indefinitely with a heart irregularity and has been sorely missed.
While Lethlean pinpointed players in the 50-100 game bracket as those who were not performing to expectations, he said defender Jimmy Webster (75 games) was performing. He said the Saints had needed this tier of players to step up following the retirements of club greats Nick Riewoldt and Leigh Montagna.
Lethlean said conversion was also an issue – the Saints have been the least accurate team in 2018. ‘‘We’re not finishing our work,’’ he said.
While Lethlean did not single out any of those non-performing players in that experience bracket, players in that category include the talented Jack Billings, forward Tim Membrey – who has had goalkicking yips and booted only six goals this year – ruckmen Tom Hickey and Billy Longer, Blake Acres, Jack Sinclair, Luke Dunstan and Koby Stevens, while skilful forward Jade Gresham has played 49 games and ex-Giant Jack Steele has played 45 games.
Billings is arguably the most talented player in that category and a clear example of a player who has not met expectations.
Lethlean also said that Jake Carlisle, whom he said had performed this year, was expected to return for the game against Richmond on Saturday after missing with concussion.
Lethlean, who joined the club prior to this season after serving as a senior AFL executive, said the club would have a better idea of their list situation at the end of the season.


No foolin.

[skeptic]

I don’t know... hard to argue that the leaders have played to expectations too minus a couple... that the coaches have performed and the early gamers are killing it (though some are looking good)

[Jacks Back]

Lethlean, who joined the club prior to this season after serving as a senior AFL executive, said the club would have a better idea of their list situation at the end of the season.


No foolin.

Will they though? I doubt it.

[bigred]

Ross has been OK... but not really "better". Treading water(ish).
Dunstan has taken a big step.
Webster too.
Stuv busts his arse and is carrying. If he gets hurt we are cooked.
Newnes has been rank. Billings worse. Those two should be killing it.
Skunk has to click.
Miss Bruce. Yes we do. Miss Robbo. Holy hell we miss Robbo.

New kids have been OK. Phillips a nice surprise.

But really you could just throw a mediocre blanket over the lot of em.

[ss1986]

Quite honestly....

They obviously cant see the forest for the trees because any Saints fan watching the decline of this rabble over the last 18 months could have told them that and done a comprehensive board presentation.

I’d love to do a board presentation to demonstrate how utterly inept the rest of the club is too.

Getting angrier by the day and it’s not healthy.

[Teflon]

I'm sorry but I find this a cop out
Why aren't we getting the best from this bracket? What's not happening with he coaching after 5 years to get the best out of them?
I don't like M LLoyd but when this was raised on FC tonight and Jude tried to say it wasn't Richo .....even LLoyd had to step in and say "the skills sat night sub AFL standard..... coach has to wear some of that..."
This smacks of desperation from a Board who has re appointed a coach they should not have and now are in a fix - why is no one scrutinising this poor decision????
Lethlean might be a puppet I fear
Review should be external
Must say thought LLoyd was licking his lips at Billings "can't help but feel it's better for him in a better club environment /system"

[Teflon]

Quite honestly....

They obviously cant see the forest for the trees because any Saints fan watching the decline of this rabble over the last 18 months could have told them that and done a comprehensive board presentation.

I’d love to do a board presentation to demonstrate how utterly inept the rest of the club is too.

Getting angrier by the day and it’s not healthy.

It's becoming farcical isn't it?
Saints Review:
"Yeah we're just missing goals and those nasty 50-100 gamers are failing us"

WHY you friggin numpties???? Why is that? En Massey a group of players are failing YET this board continue to tell us they "just aren't playing up to their capabilities " .........what if the capabilities of much of this group ARENT up to it????
Why can't 90% of this side hit the side of a barn?
And what role recruiters played recruiting skill less footballers????
Surely we need an independent assessment of the list - not some bed hopping ex AFL exec here for dollars and to hide while the tarnish of his muddied name wears off?????

[desertsaint]

which players are they talking about?
the leaders have been okay, but not playing like leaders, and in newnes case simply awful.
of the 50-100 group dunstan has been just about our best, acres been okay, but like sinclair and steele they keep playing him out of position. webster good. most of the others injured, so is it
membrey, hickey, billings, weller, and gresham wearing all the blame? well why pick them every week? how about hammer the coach and leaders for not leading?
he's made a statement - now back it up in selection.

[Teflon]

Correct desert saint
He's playing them off poor performances the clubs admitting it
Definition of insanity?
What's glaring here is our coach of 5 years escapes any scrutiny at all???
He has to wear some heat
So too recruitment and our amateur development team

[iwantmeseats]

Thumping this week and that will be it for AR ion AFL 360. That was excruciating tonight. Way out of his depth.

[Teflon]

Thumping this week and that will be it for AR ion AFL 360. That was excruciating tonight. Way out of his depth.

What was said?
Is he floundering?

[To the top]

The problem I have with the Club assessment is:-

Geary 172
Steven 163
Brown 161
Armitage 158
Savage 132
Newnes 122
Weller 113

So, if those 7 are performing as the leaders because of their experience, why are we languishing as we are?
That is 1/3rd of the side we put on the park last weekend

Ross 90
Webster 75
Dunstan 75
Hickey 72
Membrey 57
Sinclair 51
Gresham 49
Steele 45
Lonie 41

There is the next tier, comprising 9 players and who are being held responsible

Coffield 7
Clark 6
Marshall 6
Phillips 2
Rice 1

My view is that it is those in the top 7 who are letting us down, ex Jack Steven.

This is where you would expect our A Grade players to come from, and Jack Steven is the only one near that status among that group.

Of that first 7, who, apart from Jack, can take a game by the scruff of the neck and say "follow me"?

How many of that first 7 would you expect "3 Votes ..........." on Brownlow Medal night?

Quite frankly, 6 of that first 7 are surplus to requirements, and the sad commentary is that one of them is the Captain of the Club.

Hence where we find ourselves.

[ss1986]

What I find completely bewildering is that the vast majority of us are all on the same page.

Yes it may take us different lengths of time to get there, but I struggle to believe that there was a single Saints fan out there for example that thought the appointment of Jarryn Geary as captain was an inspired move.

No offence to the man at all - hell I wouldnt turn the job down, but if we are honest, if we were a good unit, he should be borderline getting a game in the best 22.

Sam Gilbert god bless him has gone on 3 years too long, yet we gave him a contract extension last season was it? Blind Freddie could see he was, is and always will be an honest trier, but a turnover merchant and exactly what we dont need going forward.

The diabetes issue for McCartin any normal person would harbour reservations about, the Freeman injury concerns, the failure to attract a big name, continued goalkicking problem most of us identified in 2009 that cost us a GF but nothing was done about.... ALL the way back to GTs belief that a ruckman wasn’t a necessity to win a GF (even though it cost us one in 97).

It always seems like the club are 3 steps behind the supporters- but they wont have a bar of any of it and infact treat us like morons that know nothing.

I wish I could be “done” with St.Kilda but this shite is a drug

[rodgerfox]

This worries me.

As has been highlighted recently, even the fans have repeatedly identified the same problems that the club has now - for over a year!

We're not suddenly s***.

We've been s*** for quite a long time. Riewoldt masked it to a large degree.

So to suggest that everything is Ok except that a few players are not performing, is as baffling as it is idiotic.

[axcellence]

This worries me.

As has been highlighted recently, even the fans have repeatedly identified the same problems that the club has now - for over a year!

We're not suddenly s***.

We've been s*** for quite a long time. Riewoldt masked it to a large degree.

So to suggest that everything is Ok except that a few players are not performing, is as baffling as it is idiotic.

Well done mate. That’s a much better analysis than the one put forward by Lethlean.

I’ve been banging on about the loss of Riewoldt at every 3rd post. They replaced him with Clark/Coffield on the playing 22. Big shoes to fill!

Also - the rest of the posters in this thread have done great analysis. I reckon the board can read this thread and save them a full day of meetings!!

[saintspremiers]

Have the Einstein’s ever thought that maybe our fitness levels overall are so poor that by the time the players are lining up for goal they are buggered?

Or simply not good enough to get the ball in the forward 50 fast enough to have a non-buggered shot at goal??

No wonder Roo was totally cooked when he finished last year. He did the friggin lot for those lazy arsed SOAB players!

But sorry maybe that’s not fair. The players haven’t been developed/instructed properly and have Scooby Doo as coach.

[Jacks Back]

The problem I have with the Club assessment is:-

Geary 172
Steven 163
Brown 161
Armitage 158
Savage 132
Newnes 122
Weller 113

So, if those 7 are performing as the leaders because of their experience, why are we languishing as we are?
That is 1/3rd of the side we put on the park last weekend

Ross 90
Webster 75
Dunstan 75
Hickey 72
Membrey 57
Sinclair 51
Gresham 49
Steele 45
Lonie 41

There is the next tier, comprising 9 players and who are being held responsible

Coffield 7
Clark 6
Marshall 6
Phillips 2
Rice 1

My view is that it is those in the top 7 who are letting us down, ex Jack Steven.

This is where you would expect our A Grade players to come from, and Jack Steven is the only one near that status among that group.

Of that first 7, who, apart from Jack, can take a game by the scruff of the neck and say "follow me"?

How many of that first 7 would you expect "3 Votes ..........." on Brownlow Medal night?

Quite frankly, 6 of that first 7 are surplus to requirements, and the sad commentary is that one of them is the Captain of the Club.

Hence where we find ourselves.

Top assessment TTT. Jackie boy Steven is the only experienced player on our list that has some of that follow me boys attitude and is also great to watch play (aside from some errant kicking). Make him captain and then drop any of the "leaders" who aren't performing regardless of their, so called, status.

[spert]

If Steven gets injured or is successfully tagged for a game, then it's really bad.

I would suggest Steven and Carlise are the only two really playing to the level required.

[st.byron]

I'm sorry but I find this a cop out
Why aren't we getting the best from this bracket? What's not happening with he coaching after 5 years to get the best out of them?
I don't like M LLoyd but when this was raised on FC tonight and Jude tried to say it wasn't Richo .....even LLoyd had to step in and say "the skills sat night sub AFL standard..... coach has to wear some of that..."
This smacks of desperation from a Board who has re appointed a coach they should not have and now are in a fix - why is no one scrutinising this poor decision????
Lethlean might be a puppet I fear
Review should be external
Must say thought LLoyd was licking his lips at Billings "can't help but feel it's better for him in a better club environment /system"

Exactly. It’s driving me mad and like others am getting more pissed off every day. WTF?..... “Not getting enough out of 50+ game players”.... and who exactly is responsible for that? Sounds like Lethlean is not directly but by clear implication blaming the players for the shyte we’ve been dished up this year. Seems to be a club wide determination to avoid responsibility at coaching and management level. Zero willingness to accept their own culpability. FFS, Richo was part of the presentation to the board. We even have Tony74 coming on here telling us that it’s the players’ fault. The ship has hit an iceberg due to substandard systems and captaincy and the officers are standing on the bridge blaming the sailors saying, “it’s not us, we’re not the problem here”. Finger pointers without balls. Jaysus...time for change at board, coaching and recruiting levels.

[spert]

Lethlean just telling the board that some players are ok, and others are not playing very well. I reckon he might have said more about why this is happening, and it is probably pointing the finger at Richo, but that info wont come out.

[nw7]

Wow, they are delusional. The leaders and mature age players are the main problem and the coach accepting thier poor performance week in week out is shocking. Geary, Ross, Armo, Gilbert, Savage, Newnes, Weller even Bruce and Roberton when they were playing are inconsistent, poor decision makers and have ordinary skills. Can they improve? The middle group of players have potential but its hard to develop them if the standards are set by the above group.

[barneyboyz]

The problem I have with the Club assessment is:-

Geary 172
Steven 163
Brown 161
Armitage 158
Savage 132
Newnes 122
Weller 113

So, if those 7 are performing as the leaders because of their experience, why are we languishing as we are?
That is 1/3rd of the side we put on the park last weekend

Ross 90
Webster 75
Dunstan 75
Hickey 72
Membrey 57
Sinclair 51
Gresham 49
Steele 45
Lonie 41

There is the next tier, comprising 9 players and who are being held responsible

Coffield 7
Clark 6
Marshall 6
Phillips 2
Rice 1

My view is that it is those in the top 7 who are letting us down, ex Jack Steven.

This is where you would expect our A Grade players to come from, and Jack Steven is the only one near that status among that group.

Of that first 7, who, apart from Jack, can take a game by the scruff of the neck and say "follow me"?

How many of that first 7 would you expect "3 Votes ..........." on Brownlow Medal night?

Quite frankly, 6 of that first 7 are surplus to requirements, and the sad commentary is that one of them is the Captain of the Club.

Hence where we find ourselves.

I can't argue with any of this, in fact that's where the cleanout needs to start.

Only problem is we will have one decent pick this year unless we trade, so that means we will have to keep some of those that need to go

[desertsaint]

so looking at TTT's post there are just six players in that 50-100 group that played. Richo mentioned dunstan and webster as doing their job, Ross is in the leader group, which Lethlean absolved of responsibility. So are they telling us our change in fortune is down to just 3 players?

Pissed off that the club would even highlight a small group of players - what will it do to those guys to be thrown under the bus - it is the coaches and leaders that need to put their hands up and accept the majority of the blame.

[prwilkinson]

What I find completely bewildering is that the vast majority of us are all on the same page.

Yes it may take us different lengths of time to get there, but I struggle to believe that there was a single Saints fan out there for example that thought the appointment of Jarryn Geary as captain was an inspired move.

No offence to the man at all - hell I wouldnt turn the job down, but if we are honest, if we were a good unit, he should be borderline getting a game in the best 22.

Sam Gilbert god bless him has gone on 3 years too long, yet we gave him a contract extension last season was it? Blind Freddie could see he was, is and always will be an honest trier, but a turnover merchant and exactly what we dont need going forward.

The diabetes issue for McCartin any normal person would harbour reservations about, the Freeman injury concerns, the failure to attract a big name, continued goalkicking problem most of us identified in 2009 that cost us a GF but nothing was done about.... ALL the way back to GTs belief that a ruckman wasn’t a necessity to win a GF (even though it cost us one in 97).

It always seems like the club are 3 steps behind the supporters- but they wont have a bar of any of it and infact treat us like morons that know nothing.

I wish I could be “done” with St.Kilda but this shite is a drug

+1

[saintspremiers]

I know the club knows who theyhave idinetified as keepers and who aren’t through the review. But that’s the players - more relevant is the footy department. I don’t know about that unfortunately.

You have to fix the footy department firstly, then the playing list. That’s a non-negoitiable.