It breaks my heart

[SydneySainter]

The club is poorly administered and the playing list is poorly developed and coached. Our game day performance is the proof in the pudding!

Heading for a bottom three finish (maybe even the spoon), a failed 5 year rebuild, a poor draft position this year, $10,000,000 plus debt, barring Carlisle - no star talent, no interested from any rival elite talent and more and more of our own playing list looking like that they just don't want to be there. God forbid if the likes of Membrey, Acres, Billings, Ross and Gresham start requesting trades.

The club is in deep s**t.

[SydneySainter]

THERE IS A FIX!!! Fire Tony Elshaug, and begin Rebuilding with a competent recruitment team. A team that will recruit fierce competitors, not wet rags like Billings.
Everyone seems to look for reasons and excuses...lack of confidence, players being trolled on social media, lack of leadership etc etc...NO!!!!!!!!!!
WE SIMPLY DO NOT HAVE THE PERSONNEL ON THE FIELD. Billings, Newnes, Savage, Marshall, Armitage, Weller etc etc - These players are average at best and have been brought on board during a horrific time of poor recruiting.
Even Clarko would not get a win with this list. Start again - this time recruiting fierce competitors, hard nuts, and players with pace.
It will be a few more years of pain, but we can be strong again

It's naive to say that it's just the recruitment. It's a big part of the problem, but not the sole problem.

Billings, Membrey, Gresham and Bruce all played some pretty exciting football when they first joined the club. Now, they can barely hit a 20 metre target by foot.

The coaching panel needs to be accountable for this diabolical decline in even the most basic disposal skills.

[saynta]

THERE IS A FIX!!! Fire Tony Elshaug, and begin Rebuilding with a competent recruitment team. A team that will recruit fierce competitors, not wet rags like Billings.
Everyone seems to look for reasons and excuses...lack of confidence, players being trolled on social media, lack of leadership etc etc...NO!!!!!!!!!!
WE SIMPLY DO NOT HAVE THE PERSONNEL ON THE FIELD. Billings, Newnes, Savage, Marshall, Armitage, Weller etc etc - These players are average at best and have been brought on board during a horrific time of poor recruiting.
Even Clarko would not get a win with this list. Start again - this time recruiting fierce competitors, hard nuts, and players with pace.
It will be a few more years of pain, but we can be strong again

Anyone playing in this team who can kick 4 goals is a bit better than average.

Marshall has just played his 7th. game FFS.

[samuraisaint]

It isn't recruiting. Not the last five years anyway. It's development of players. And it isn't all the senior coach's fault either, although he needs to take responsibility for some of the poor development, appalling skills of the players and perhaps choices of his support staff. It all comes from the top. Summers spoke out finally so I was happy about that. It sets a tone at least.
The next three weeks is all important. Very difficult matches, so it all has to be about effort and taking our chances. If we get three hidings we will really be in trouble. We need to build towards our second win of the year which must come against the Suns. We get through the next four weeks before the bye with three honourable losses and a win and we can look to the second half of the season with a little enthusiasm.
The structure of the team - particularly the forward line - is dysfunctional. No good bringing in guys like Battle if they're not ready, especially the way the ball enters the forward line at the moment.
Looks like White needs to come back in to the backline judging by his game last weekend.
Still confused as to why we gave up our second round pick for Austin Logan if we won't play him. Seems a high price to pay.

[bigred]

Potential sucks.

We have a lot of it.

Cant seem to unlock it.

I still think we are better than this.

[Jacks Back]

At this stage, I don't think Alan Richardson has any idea on how to go about leading this team out of the current malaise.

Maybe the players and coaches can take the night off and go to the movies. It worked in reverse for GT. Maybe they can see 'Predator' for the game against Richmond (It it bleeds, we can kill it).

[Teflon]

It isn't recruiting. Not the last five years anyway. It's development of players. And it isn't all the senior coach's fault either, although he needs to take responsibility for some of the poor development, appalling skills of the players and perhaps choices of his support staff. It all comes from the top. Summers spoke out finally so I was happy about that. It sets a tone at least.
The next three weeks is all important. Very difficult matches, so it all has to be about effort and taking our chances. If we get three hidings we will really be in trouble. We need to build towards our second win of the year which must come against the Suns. We get through the next four weeks before the bye with three honourable losses and a win and we can look to the second half of the season with a little enthusiasm.
The structure of the team - particularly the forward line - is dysfunctional. No good bringing in guys like Battle if they're not ready, especially the way the ball enters the forward line at the moment.
Looks like White needs to come back in to the backline judging by his game last weekend.
Still confused as to why we gave up our second round pick for Austin Logan if we won't play him. Seems a high price to pay.

It isn't recruiting yet we spent a no 1 draft pick on a bloke carrying diabetes ?
We've recruited non stop HBF and IGNORED midfielders???
Sorry development is poor agreed but let's not kid ourselves our recruitment past 3-4 years has been ordinary

[bigred]

Yep, ordinary.

Anyone else here forgotten about McCartin and just completely thinking that he really is not part of the future?

[desertsaint]

Yep, ordinary.

Anyone else here forgotten about McCartin and just completely thinking that he really is not part of the future?

yep.
no point thinking he (or freeman) has a future in footy.
we may get a pleasant surprise but i'm not wasting hope thinking it'll happen.

[st.byron]

Yep, ordinary.

Anyone else here forgotten about McCartin and just completely thinking that he really is not part of the future?

+1

[barneyboyz]

Yep, ordinary.

Anyone else here forgotten about McCartin and just completely thinking that he really is not part of the future?

yep.
no point thinking he (or freeman) has a future in footy.
we may get a pleasant surprise but i'm not wasting hope thinking it'll happen.

I haven't written Freeman off just yet, this bloke just needs an even break. Paddy, well I think that one's over sorry. If he was my son, I'd be having some real difficult discussions with him.

What breaks my heart? when I see a young fella just busting to be great for our club, and he can't get out there. Another thing that breaks my heart...we couldn't even recruit our way out of this until we start getting some picks! one worthwhile pick this year, that really hurts

[saintadamski]

THERE IS A FIX!!! Fire Tony Elshaug, and begin Rebuilding with a competent recruitment team. A team that will recruit fierce competitors, not wet rags like Billings.
Everyone seems to look for reasons and excuses...lack of confidence, players being trolled on social media, lack of leadership etc etc...NO!!!!!!!!!!
WE SIMPLY DO NOT HAVE THE PERSONNEL ON THE FIELD. Billings, Newnes, Savage, Marshall, Armitage, Weller etc etc - These players are average at best and have been brought on board during a horrific time of poor recruiting.
Even Clarko would not get a win with this list. Start again - this time recruiting fierce competitors, hard nuts, and players with pace.
It will be a few more years of pain, but we can be strong again

Anyone playing in this team who can kick 4 goals is a bit better than average.

Marshall has just played his 7th. game FFS.

So all you see is the number '4' next to goals, without looking at the context...
- one goal from a mark where no defenders were near him
- one goal from his opponent literally slipping over to the ground.
- one goal from a good snap admittedly
- one goal from an actual mark on an opponent

I admit he kicked straight - yay! He also had 4 tackles in 7 games of football, and multiple turnovers, which was the reason he was plonked in the forward 50.
Yep you're right - he's a superstar and will lead us to our next flag haha

Oh and as for Rowan Marshall - 7 games is more than enough to see what the score is there
Ah well, back to the drawing board

[spiral3]

So all you see is the number '4' next to goals, without looking at the context...
- one goal from a mark where no defenders were near him
- one goal from his opponent literally slipping over to the ground.
- one goal from a good snap admittedly
- one goal from an actual mark on an opponent

I admit he kicked straight - yay! He also had 4 tackles in 7 games of football, and multiple turnovers, which was the reason he was plonked in the forward 50.
Yep you're right - he's a superstar and will lead us to our next flag haha

and did you think DeGoey's goals were far more impressive?
good to get so many but they were mostly gimme goals
the media has gone bananas over him and rumours of contract offers up near the 1 million mark...????

I'm not a big Newnes fan, he can play ok but generally his decision making is average or worse
however, it was nice to see him deliver and finally have someone kick the ball through the bigger pair of sticks, he did well

[saynta]

THERE IS A FIX!!! Fire Tony Elshaug, and begin Rebuilding with a competent recruitment team. A team that will recruit fierce competitors, not wet rags like Billings.
Everyone seems to look for reasons and excuses...lack of confidence, players being trolled on social media, lack of leadership etc etc...NO!!!!!!!!!!
WE SIMPLY DO NOT HAVE THE PERSONNEL ON THE FIELD. Billings, Newnes, Savage, Marshall, Armitage, Weller etc etc - These players are average at best and have been brought on board during a horrific time of poor recruiting.
Even Clarko would not get a win with this list. Start again - this time recruiting fierce competitors, hard nuts, and players with pace.
It will be a few more years of pain, but we can be strong again

Anyone playing in this team who can kick 4 goals is a bit better than average.

Marshall has just played his 7th. game FFS.

So all you see is the number '4' next to goals, without looking at the context...
- one goal from a mark where no defenders were near him
- one goal from his opponent literally slipping over to the ground.
- one goal from a good snap admittedly
- one goal from an actual mark on an opponent

I admit he kicked straight - yay! He also had 4 tackles in 7 games of football, and multiple turnovers, which was the reason he was plonked in the forward 50.
Yep you're right - he's a superstar and will lead us to our next flag haha

Oh and as for Rowan Marshall - 7 games is more than enough to see what the score is there
Ah well, back to the drawing board

Don't tell me " So all you see is the number '4' next to goals, without looking at the context..." FFS

I have been following the Saints for over 70 years and the negative comments directed at players, particularly Newnes really pisses me off.

Granted the Saints have been playing poorly but when someone kicks 4 goals at least show a bit of respect.

Have you even played the game? I doubt it.

[saintadamski]

Ouch! getting personal
Played the game plenty - and if you think this crop of players are gloriously talented and ready to take us to a magnificent flag, then you are dilusional - but that can happen after 70 years.
So what should we do? Keep supporting and playing dud players year in year out. Sounds like the definition of insanity to me.

Einsteins definition of insanity: "doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results"

I love your attitude of treating players as sacred cows - good strategy. That way, we will never change direction, and will go deeper into the hole that we are in now.

Keep up the good work Newnes, Billings, Savage, Weller, Armitage etc etc etc - you're doing a cracking job! haha
And keep up the good work Saynta - There's a few more wooden spoons for you before you shuffle off this mortal coil

[freely]

I'm beginning to think that the definition of insanity is keep citing the definition of insanity and thinking that makes your opinion sound more intelligent.

[takeaway]

Ouch! getting personal
Played the game plenty - and if you think this crop of players are gloriously talented and ready to take us to a magnificent flag, then you are dilusional - but that can happen after 70 years.
So what should we do? Keep supporting and playing dud players year in year out. Sounds like the definition of insanity to me.

Einsteins definition of insanity: "doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results"

I love your attitude of treating players as sacred cows - good strategy. That way, we will never change direction, and will go deeper into the hole that we are in now.

Keep up the good work Newnes, Billings, Savage, Weller, Armitage etc etc etc - you're doing a cracking job! haha
And keep up the good work Saynta - There's a few more wooden spoons for you before you shuffle off this mortal coil

I think the nucleus of the current crop, with a return to confidence and the addition of a high DP, and hopefully a couple of others through FA and trade, will get us well up the ladder.
Billings and Newnes, in my view are top 22, Savage just, not Weller or Armitage the way he is moving at the moment. There need to be changes, but mass change like some are proposing make the hole deeper.

This has come up before, but your definition of insanity has nothing to do with the correct definition and was not stated by Einstein anyway. Need to come up with another quote.

[MC Gusto]

Whilst I accept the players may be outwardly projecting alignment to the coach, my view is actions speak louder than words and given the simple fact that so many players have seemingly gone backwards, confidence levels are shot and there is very little team cohesion or consistency, then I’d argue he has lost the players and a change is required

[saintadamski]

Hey Takeaway
Whether it was Einstein, Franklin, Twain, Kim Kardashian, or Bugs Bunny - the point is that if you keep doing the same thing over and over, and you keep failing, then just perhaps you should change your approach.
I appreciate your opinion on keeping a solid nucleus of players, but this is where there is a catch 22. The nucleus of our playing group is sub standard. so do we build a team around sub standard players? Or do we go a couple of steps backwards again to try and form a better nucleus which will take time. Either way, the bottom of the ladder will be our home for some time to come.

[Scollop]

Yep....bottom of the ladder...zero expectations and rebuild after rebuild...We could become the new Melbourne circa 2011-2015...or the new Brisbane circa 2013-2017...or the new Carlton 2014-2018

[takeaway]

Hey Takeaway
Whether it was Einstein, Franklin, Twain, Kim Kardashian, or Bugs Bunny - the point is that if you keep doing the same thing over and over, and you keep failing, then just perhaps you should change your approach.
I appreciate your opinion on keeping a solid nucleus of players, but this is where there is a catch 22. The nucleus of our playing group is sub standard. so do we build a team around sub standard players? Or do we go a couple of steps backwards again to try and form a better nucleus which will take time. Either way, the bottom of the ladder will be our home for some time to come.

I have a higher opinion of the overall list than you. We do need a bit of speed and class, but we are not doing the same thing over and over - debuting new players, turning over a few, and trying different positions for players. The forward line is still very much a work in progress, and has been hampered by injuries. Should continue to try things for the rest of this year. Then hopefully get a bit of speed/class in, and IMO will not be round the bottom of the ladder, but moving up.

[WellardSaint]

Hey Takeaway
Whether it was Einstein, Franklin, Twain, Kim Kardashian, or Bugs Bunny - the point is that if you keep doing the same thing over and over, and you keep failing, then just perhaps you should change your approach.
I appreciate your opinion on keeping a solid nucleus of players, but this is where there is a catch 22. The nucleus of our playing group is sub standard. so do we build a team around sub standard players? Or do we go a couple of steps backwards again to try and form a better nucleus which will take time. Either way, the bottom of the ladder will be our home for some time to come.

Thomas Edison tried a thousand times to develop an incandescent bulb, but kept failing.
He said something along the lines of
"I haven't failed, I've just found 1000 ways that it won't work!"
history shows he sucked all the air out of a glass bulb, waited a minute or two,
turned on the sucker again (he thought some air was still clinging to the inside surface)
then turned on the lamp.
With zero air inside, the tungsten filament glowed but had no O2 to react with, so didn't burn away
like it did 1000 times before.
Victory.

[saintadamski]

Haha well St Kilda has definitely found 1000 ways that it 'won't work' so far.
But there's an Abyss between the comparison of a scientific genius, and a recruiting manager that has no clue.
That difference ladies and gentlemen is 'METHOD'
Edison is quoted as saying, "When I want to discover something, I begin by reading up everything that has been done along that line in the past - that's what all these books in the library are for. I see what has been accomplished at great labor and expense in the past. I gather data of many thousands of experiments as a starting point, and then I make thousands more."
BOOM! absorbs in all the data of past success by others like a sponge.....Elshaug? ummmm yeh....nah. haha