It breaks my heart

[The Fireman]

I had a chat to the Pres Tony47 and he was incredibly upbeat despite my negative conversation with him. re going backwards, certain players losing there skill levels , poor kicking etc.
He hit me with figures like, number of forward 50 entries and other stats that sounded good on paper and that somehow got us close to the level of other clubs despite our bad losses.
This was about 4 games ago, I would love to know his outlook atm.

PS on a side note he was happy to tell me on a few occasions he had nothing to do with the running of the team.

PPS . Nice bloke.

[fugazi]

And I couldn't give a stuff about winning premierships, it not why I started supporting the Saints, if it was about that I probalbly would have ended up supporting Richmond or Hawthorn which where the clubs zoned to the area where I lived and were constantly up the top end of the ladder when I was a youngster.

It was about this rouge ragamuffin club, full of character. Sure it was disfunctional and full of flaws, but it had heart, it had personality, it had passion. It had that special something that I think, all Saints supporters could affiliate with.
Ft
It was a club like that quirky uncle we all have that smokes and drinks and stuffs up in life but geez he has a heart of gold, can laugh at himeself and loves life and deals with whatever comes his way.

That was St Kilda, a rollercoaster of emotion, passion, excitment, soul and at the same time it would break your heart.

What is St Kilda now, what does it stand for, who is St Kilda..... answer me this.

Because right now it is nothing, it is a ghost of its former self and has lost its way.

And it is sure as hell, losing the very fabric I loved about it and more than likely losing the very foundation of who St Kilda is by disconnecting with supporters like myself.

Actually quite a chilling insight.....something has definitely changed.

[Sainternist]

Can't recall thinking that the players simply didn't care enough. I do, however, think it's more a case of the team's confidence being completely shot. Round 2's demoralising defeat seemed to have left the overall psyche battered and bruised. Of course that only led to a snowball effect and the team now has just plain forgotten how to win a game of football. At this stage, I don't think Alan Richardson has any idea on how to go about leading this team out of the current malaise. Tim Watson didn't either. So we hit the reset button and made some big changes at the end of the season. Unless Richo can find answers and find them quickly, I'd say we are better off to hit the reset button once the season reaches its conclusion. Paying out the remainder of someone's contract is a small price to pay to going through another two years of a soul destroying ordeal.

[Moods]

Sick of hearing that the players confidence is shot. THAT's the coaches responsibility to build it back up. You reckon the bombers confidence wasn't shot as well?? they won't play finals this year but somehow they managed to get up and play well on Saturday. Right now, we don't look capable of playing good footy - simply because this infuriating, U12 standard of
goal kicking completely deflates the team. As the game goes goes on every week you can literally see the confidence evaporate out of the team due to the pathetic kicking for goal. The pres can quote FWD 50 entries etc all he likes, but the name of the game is kicking goals and defending them. Right now we are completely useless at one key aspect of the game. It's gone on too long now for it to just be the yips. It was happening for most of last year too. It's systemic. And whatever they've tried to do to remedy it has failed dismally, to the point where we are a laughing stock.

In the 1st quarter on Sat night we won virtually every centre clearance - cleanly. That in itself should have converted to a few goals. We keep teams in the game and then eventually they have their turn and convert and that's it. Game over. From there we turn our toes up. Happens every week. The players can obviously sense when the game is slipping because they DO give up.

Really hard to watch. I'm finding it really hard to be a Sainter this year. I find myself completely irritated with the crap that goes on at the game - the bulls*** music after goals, the 'get you halos on' rubbish - what does that even mean?

I find myself not even defending the club anymore in arguments with mates. Just concede from the outset. We're crap. We're embarrassing.

[Saints43]

I think Summers has to go - he's lame and aspiration needs to start from prez down.

I don't know Summers at all.
But, I sit in front of him at the games and looked up at three quarter time. Finnis was texting but Summers was looking at the stats rolling through on the scoreboard and he looked ropable. Very unhappy.

I believe he's a very keen, long term Saints supporter so he'll be as disappointed as anyone.

And, AR's contract might have a three month contact pay-out clause.
The extension was to take pressure off him in (what would have been) the last year of his contract. But there were safeguards put in place.
The admin might be doing better than the staff.

And, as for the whine that opened the thread, everybody has moved to workplaces where everyone thinks they're doing a great job but they don't have outside success to measure it against. And this coaching staff would all, bar one, be in that category.

[tony74]

I think Summers has to go - he's lame and aspiration needs to start from prez down.

I don't know Summers at all.
But, I sit in front of him at the games and looked up at three quarter time. Finnis was texting but Summers was looking at the stats rolling through on the scoreboard and he looked ropable. Very unhappy.

I believe he's a very keen, long term Saints supporter so he'll be as disappointed as anyone.

And, AR's contract might have a three month contact pay-out clause.
The extension was to take pressure off him in (what would have been) the last year of his contract. But there were safeguards put in place.
The admin might be doing better than the staff.

And, as for the whine that opened the thread, everybody has moved to workplaces where everyone thinks they're doing a great job but they don't have outside success to measure it against. And this coaching staff would all, bar one, be in that category.

Apologies, I didn’t realise it was a whine. I meant it as raw passion at the time.

[kalsaint]

Tony 74, if you are connected to the Club please pass on the message that we are sick and tired of being treated like morons by the Club. Hearing the President speak yesterday hurt more than the loss to Collingwood. If our Presidents message is accurate and he truly believes everything is on track and accepted the presentations made to the Board by the Footy Department we are in big trouble. The List needs work, the coaches came into the season with a flawed game plan and overrated our abilities, after the North game it has been one excuse after the other . I am not doubting effort and that players and coaches are hurting I know they would be. I'm doubting the club leadership to improve us moving forward if they truly believe if we play to our abilities we can match it with anyone when we cant win a game, cant execute basic skills, cant kick for goal, keep picking players that just aren't up to standard week in week out, don't develop our players as well as other clubs and when we have great opportunities at draft time pick the wrong players. We have a fantastic opportunity to use the rest of the season to improve, I want to hear them say we are going to use the rest of the season to improve our skills, give players on the list a go, improve our game plan and fitness and that players and coaches are on notice that what's occurring is not acceptable. We can then hit next season full on and accept what we are working on this season. If you don't truly acknowledge the problem you cant deal with it and fix it. The message from the club tells me they are in denial, not that they are capable of setting us on the right path from this time on.

Yes I agree with most of this but I do have an issue with playing too many kids to get them valuable game experience. If we are on time in 2020 then the mature players needed to be certainly quite strong with clear game leadership and accountability. We backed ourselves into a situation that we had older players all being less than 200 games experience. Why? This does not enable the leadership to be clear and the young ones time to develop at the AFL level so they too feel a strong contributor to the teams effort. Just playing them for the sake of games without game coaching and obvious passion and accountability doesn't help in the long term. I am not in Victoria so don't get to attend many games. There appears to be little obvious antics on the ground to demonstrate this is a key part of the game today. It was obvious with Roo as he showed his frustration but expected accountability. He would move wherever he needed to be to enforce his standards on the game. Its not clear now. Correct me if I'm wrong but the rest need to be talking to instruct ball clearances and carriers on their position and whether they are hot of not. We handball to players standing flat footed, often not facing the direction needed, often turning blindly into opposition tackles. Last week Gresham turned blindly after a free kick and got away with it. Matthew Richardson praised him for the effort as a goal resulted. He saw that a the change needed. Its was not a sign of discipline to me. I doubt if others had a chance to call the best option to him. I saw it as lucky. We need to have a better than 50/50 decision making or we could be chasing butt for a long time without refining the needs of the game plan. Everyone must understand their roles and be accountable. Leaders on the ground need to step up and provide the coaching or accountability review quickly to correct that performance. The coaching group need a workable game plan that is well understood and within the control of the playing group.


Leadership at the club is late if Richo was asked by the board is he needed more support. This suggested to me out prime club leaders aren't on top of things related to footy but get those social issues, such as last weeks
Footy Show on Channel 9, addressed quickly. I don't feel they have the same attention to the footy department.

[kalsaint]

We are a bottom 3 team....and I don't see any real prospect of that changing any time soon.

I do. I see Brisbane's next win or even draw putting them ahead of us on the ladder. I'm not being a smart ass here as the yare laden with elites or potential elite players and have a great on ground coach in Hodge to get clear instruction, direct coaching or an accountability chat if they don't follow the coaches plan or expected effort. It wont be long given we play Richmond then Eagles in Perth so our percentage looks likely to take a beating if w cant sustain the 4 quarter effort.

[iwantmeseats]

Sick of hearing that the players confidence is shot. THAT's the coaches responsibility to build it back up. You reckon the bombers confidence wasn't shot as well?? they won't play finals this year but somehow they managed to get up and play well on Saturday. Right now, we don't look capable of playing good footy - simply because this infuriating, U12 standard of
goal kicking completely deflates the team. As the game goes goes on every week you can literally see the confidence evaporate out of the team due to the pathetic kicking for goal. The pres can quote FWD 50 entries etc all he likes, but the name of the game is kicking goals and defending them. Right now we are completely useless at one key aspect of the game. It's gone on too long now for it to just be the yips. It was happening for most of last year too. It's systemic. And whatever they've tried to do to remedy it has failed dismally, to the point where we are a laughing stock.

In the 1st quarter on Sat night we won virtually every centre clearance - cleanly. That in itself should have converted to a few goals. We keep teams in the game and then eventually they have their turn and convert and that's it. Game over. From there we turn our toes up. Happens every week. The players can obviously sense when the game is slipping because they DO give up.

Really hard to watch. I'm finding it really hard to be a Sainter this year. I find myself completely irritated with the crap that goes on at the game - the bulls*** music after goals, the 'get you halos on' rubbish - what does that even mean?

I find myself not even defending the club anymore in arguments with mates. Just concede from the outset. We're crap. We're embarrassing.

Got to agree on the halo rubbish,music after goals,fake crowd noise etc. Just cringy unnecessary rubbish for 10 year olds.

[Legendary]

Don't post much on here anymore.

The striking thing about this thread (and others) is the widespread agreement among everyone.

None of us can see any passion or hope.

Failing to live up to expectations always creates despair, but it's more than that.

Most fans realised 3-4 weeks ago that finals were unlikely this year, but we'll still go and watch if the players and coaches show some fight and desire.

I don't see any fight. The players are trying their hardest but there's a difference between trying and fighting.

Richo isn't a bad coach. Had we kicked at the league average accuracy last year, we would have finished percentage outside the top 4.

Lack of communication is killing the club at the moment. When things are bad, leadership is vitally important. For the last two decades, successive presidents and coaches could get away with relying on Roo's leadership. He carried the club on his shoulders.

Summers might be an accountant but he needs to step up now. He needs to communicate with the fans properly, background the media about the changes he plans on making and take control of the situation.

Catherine Brenner thought she had everything under control until the momentum of crisis destroyed her career. The same thing will happen to the club's Board unless they act boldly in the next few months. I'm not talking about sacking the coach, but about showing determination and leadership for the fans.

[chico2001]

Richardson is no good as a coach...the stats tell us that, now he is trying the "on the bench " move which most coaches have been doing for the past 18 months. Does not inspire me one bit. Most of the posters have nailed the issues spot on in this forum. I hope the administration have a look and take these complaints on board; they might actually learn something but maybe not. There are clear indications they have their head in the sand. Some of the current players need to be dropped for good, we all know who they are.

[rodgerfox]

Richo isn't a bad coach. Had we kicked at the league average accuracy last year, we would have finished percentage outside the top 4.

I don't agree with this. And I actually think that this type of thinking is why we're so rooted.


Saying 'if we could kick straight we'd be good' is like a runner saying 'if I could run faster I might win'.

We kick terribly around the ground. Miss targets, poor decisions, don't kick to advantage. Why is everyone shocked when we can't kick well for goal either? I'd be shocked if we could kick well for goal!

We're unskilled. We've taken guys in the draft that have been very skilled juniors - and turned them into boring, unimaginative and unskilled footballers.

[spert]

Richo isn't a bad coach. Had we kicked at the league average accuracy last year, we would have finished percentage outside the top 4.

I don't agree with this. And I actually think that this type of thinking is why we're so rooted.


Saying 'if we could kick straight we'd be good' is like a runner saying 'if I could run faster I might win'.

We kick terribly around the ground. Miss targets, poor decisions, don't kick to advantage. Why is everyone shocked when we can't kick well for goal either? I'd be shocked if we could kick well for goal!

We're unskilled. We've taken guys in the draft that have been very skilled juniors - and turned them into boring, unimaginative and unskilled footballers.

What you're detailing is the brief for getting a coach!

[saynta]

I find myself not even defending the club anymore in arguments with mates. Just concede from the outset. We're crap. We're embarrassing.

Yep, unfortunately ditto. Sad isn't it.

[Tommyj]

I am absolutely doubting the players' effort.

Absolutely I am.


Not all of them. Some put it all on the line. However some were clearly not giving everything last night.

Billings. Again.
Gresham.
Ross.
Steele.

More than once, these guys shirked contests and/or we're going 3/4 pace at a contest.

If Richardson can't see that, and thinks they are all giving 100% and we just need some luck to turn it around - he's off his nut.


I'd also argue that no matter how hard they keep practising whatever it is that they're practising, they will merely get better at being bad.
Their strategy is flawed. It's not working. It's been 5 years and whatever it is that Richardson is trying to get them to do - doesn't work.

His coaching seems to be the equivalent of 'pressure' and 'stong' and 'competitive'. No strategy, technique or method though.

What do you expect when you try your guts Out only to see caption turnover continually butcher the ball and put his own players under pressure f sake the man can't even handball no wonder they run around like they've got work boots on

[rodgerfox]

I am absolutely doubting the players' effort.

Absolutely I am.


Not all of them. Some put it all on the line. However some were clearly not giving everything last night.

Billings. Again.
Gresham.
Ross.
Steele.

More than once, these guys shirked contests and/or we're going 3/4 pace at a contest.

If Richardson can't see that, and thinks they are all giving 100% and we just need some luck to turn it around - he's off his nut.


I'd also argue that no matter how hard they keep practising whatever it is that they're practising, they will merely get better at being bad.
Their strategy is flawed. It's not working. It's been 5 years and whatever it is that Richardson is trying to get them to do - doesn't work.

His coaching seems to be the equivalent of 'pressure' and 'stong' and 'competitive'. No strategy, technique or method though.

What do you expect when you try your guts Out only to see caption turnover continually butcher the ball and put his own players under pressure f sake the man can't even handball no wonder they run around like they've got work boots on

I don't think they are trying their guts out.

I'll accept that they may think they are - but they clearly are not.

On top of that, there is no synergy between any of them. They don't know what each other doing. After having the same coach and the same message for 5 years, that a huge problem.

[mbogo]

And I couldn't give a stuff about winning premierships, it not why I started supporting the Saints, if it was about that I probalbly would have ended up supporting Richmond or Hawthorn which where the clubs zoned to the area where I lived and were constantly up the top end of the ladder when I was a youngster.

It was about this rouge ragamuffin club, full of character. Sure it was disfunctional and full of flaws, but it had heart, it had personality, it had passion. It had that special something that I think, all Saints supporters could affiliate with.
Ft
It was a club like that quirky uncle we all have that smokes and drinks and stuffs up in life but geez he has a heart of gold, can laugh at himeself and loves life and deals with whatever comes his way.

That was St Kilda, a rollercoaster of emotion, passion, excitment, soul and at the same time it would break your heart.

What is St Kilda now, what does it stand for, who is St Kilda..... answer me this.

Because right now it is nothing, it is a ghost of its former self and has lost its way.

And it is sure as hell, losing the very fabric I loved about it and more than likely losing the very foundation of who St Kilda is by disconnecting with supporters like myself.

Actually quite a chilling insight.....something has definitely changed.

Such a great reminder of how we always were, Craw! (Long time no see )
The times when the players look devastated when we lost - like Danny Frawley, or a furious coach - even like Blight who sat them in the middle of the ground to look at our desolate supporters. This is the type of passion we do not seem to have - or a player like Barker - who would be best on the ground even if we lost by 9 goals!
I think Bruce shows the most passion and Steven - perhaps even Membrey. We need more of this - and why did they all play with such intensity when they "coached themselves against GWS???
I want the coach to SHOW SOMETHING HUMAN! To INSPIRE desperation!
I want a President to get up spluttering with emotion and say - it is not good enough - we are going to do XY and Z ... like Butterss (even him)!!
Just imagine for a minute Hawthorn or Collingwood putting up with this drivel that is spouted week after week after week! - IT WOULD NOT HAPPEN! And it is NOT GOOD ENOUGH!

[iwantmeseats]

So true. We are totally irrelevant.

[rodgerfox]

Don’t ever any of you suggest that this team and club is not playing for the coach....

Serious question:

Why are they playing for the coach? What is he selling them? In his 5 years at the club, I reckon I could count the 'good wins' on 1 hand. That's to say, the wins where you looked at it and thought 'Ok, there's a future here.'

Actually, I think there's only been 2. In 5 years.


What is it that these players are buying in to? No one else can see it.

[st.byron]

Don’t ever any of you suggest that this team and club is not playing for the coach....

Serious question:

Why are they playing for the coach? What is he selling them? In his 5 years at the club, I reckon I could count the 'good wins' on 1 hand. That's to say, the wins where you looked at it and thought 'Ok, there's a future here.'

Actually, I think there's only been 2. In 5 years.


What is it that these players are buying in to? No one else can see it.

Exactly. And as another poster wrote above am sick of hearing how it’s the players’ skills and confidence that are the problem.......FFS....so frustrating. Who exactly is responsible for the players skills and confidence? After 5 years if AR hasn’t improved their skills and doesn’t lead to inspire confidence, then enough already. Time to move him on.

[Joffa Burns]

Richo isn't a bad coach. Had we kicked at the league average accuracy last year, we would have finished percentage outside the top 4.

I don't agree with this. And I actually think that this type of thinking is why we're so rooted.


Saying 'if we could kick straight we'd be good' is like a runner saying 'if I could run faster I might win'.

We kick terribly around the ground. Miss targets, poor decisions, don't kick to advantage. Why is everyone shocked when we can't kick well for goal either? I'd be shocked if we could kick well for goal!

We're unskilled. We've taken guys in the draft that have been very skilled juniors - and turned them into boring, unimaginative and unskilled footballers.

I'd go one step further rodgerfox and state that Richo for one and other club officials, even Robbo on 360 is subscribing to the the poor goal conversion as a cop out or excuse, if we fix the poor conversion we win matches!

This is crap as masks the real issues and lack of structure and development.

[vacuous space]

This is crap as masks the real issues and lack of structure and development.

Collingwood won a flag with an inaccurate team. It shouldn't be an excuse for anything. A team getting a lot of behinds should be getting more repeat entries from turnovers. We're not doing a good job of pressuring the kicker and we're not holding structures so teams move the ball way too easily against us, sometimes embarrassingly so. I'm still traumatised by that goal-to-goal in 12 seconds that Freo got against us.

The stats show that we're a below average team at getting the ball inside 50. We're even worse at turning those inside 50s into shots on goal. That's before even considering how bad we are at converting. Even if we were good at converting, we'd still be bad at getting the ball forward and kicking goals. We're not losing games to poor accuracy, we're losing games because we're worse than our opponents, both with and without the ball. I don't think there's an area we don't need to improve.

[bigred]

After the amount of s*** I copped today I am really starting to dislike this damn club.

[Sanctorum]

I like the theme of this post, and certainly feel utterly heart broken to see the season slip away with barely a whimper, in the same manner as the team has been doing in most games this year.

I would like to think that there is somehow an easy fix, as the Bombers did knocking off Geelong after sacking Mark Neeld - if only it was that simple!

That said, it is very often the case that the week after teams sack their coach there is an immediate positive response from the players, as if that is the sort of action that triggers the circuit breaker.

The main complaint I have is the absolute failure of on-field leadership as this is at the root of the match day problems - and the skill levels of the Saints skipper is among the worst in the team, so it is little wonder that they play poorly.

I would like to once more try to rally support (as I did in my post last week "Time for Action") for Melbourne based members to formally request the Board to immediately instigate a full review of the club's football department - we need to see something positive happen as opposed to the lame weekly message from the coach that they are working on fixing the lamentable skill deficiencies. After 9 rounds It is manifest that the club does not possess the requisite coaching skills or strategies to get the players to elevate their skills sets in match play, and to combine as a team the way opposition teams have been able to do to beat the Saints. I acknowledge that it is common for other teams to have lapses during a game, but St Kilda have made it the rule rather than the exception.

[saintadamski]

THERE IS A FIX!!! Fire Tony Elshaug, and begin Rebuilding with a competent recruitment team. A team that will recruit fierce competitors, not wet rags like Billings.
Everyone seems to look for reasons and excuses...lack of confidence, players being trolled on social media, lack of leadership etc etc...NO!!!!!!!!!!
WE SIMPLY DO NOT HAVE THE PERSONNEL ON THE FIELD. Billings, Newnes, Savage, Marshall, Armitage, Weller etc etc - These players are average at best and have been brought on board during a horrific time of poor recruiting.
Even Clarko would not get a win with this list. Start again - this time recruiting fierce competitors, hard nuts, and players with pace.
It will be a few more years of pain, but we can be strong again