Why is it?

[loris]

That Dunstan and Geary are the only players that looked distressedand angry respectively at losing after the match.

Dunstan often appears to be nearly in tears as he walks off the ground. Both him and Geary give a cursurory shake of a hand to an opposition player if offered. They don’t stand around smiling and chatting, patting on the bum every opposition player within their vicinity.

C’mon Saints players, look as if you are hurting and care at letting the team & your supporters down when you play so poorly. Sure shake hands with your opponents, that is good sportsmanship, but don’t linger and have a laugh with them, not a good look at all. IMHO

[Sainter_Dad]

Why should they care? They have just made $10K of our money - in some cases for kicking 0.3

[skeptic]

This post has brought back memories of the horror Tim Watson era in his final season - the infamous Bulldogs game where we coughed up a 5 goal lead at 3/4 time...
The game is obviously well remembered for a young Max Hudghton's distress at the final siren.


I'd kill for that degree of emotion at the moment

[takeaway]

Have a look at any AFL losing team as they wander off. Most shake hands, some chat as well, same as Saints. Nothing in it.

[felix]

They are all work mates these days working for the big corp of AFL.

[saynta]

Why should they care? They have just made $10K of our money - in some cases for kicking 0.3

We don't pay the players ffs. The AFL does out of the TV rights money.

[Sainter_Dad]

Oh - Okay - so I pay my membership to go to the ground and sit and watch the grass grow - and the food suppliers all turn up to supply food for the people watching the grass grow - and the television companies all pay money to the AFL for the people to sit at home and watch the grass grow - and the advertisers give money to the TV people to pass on to the AFL so put on a show for all these grass growing watchers.

I pay hundreds of dollars per year to pay the players - if I do not pay my money, if no-one pays money to go to the games - there is no demand for the product - no demand - no money to the players who kick 0.3

Stop being delusional - we pay the players.

Technically - Subways pays their Sandwich Artists - but if no-one buys a sandwich - they do not get paid.

[Milne]

Why should they care? They have just made $10K of our money - in some cases for kicking 0.3

We don't pay the players ffs. The AFL does out of the TV rights money.

I am paying for two memberships. They are but a drop in the ocean compared to TV rights and sponsorships.

[Sainter_Dad]

Why should they care? They have just made $10K of our money - in some cases for kicking 0.3

We don't pay the players ffs. The AFL does out of the TV rights money.

I am paying for two memberships. They are but a drop in the ocean compared to TV rights and sponsorships.

People keep saying this - but no members - no viewers - no product

They are kids playing a game - a game we watch and pay money for - therefore - we pay for their wages - without us it is just a group of kids kicking a piece of leather around a park.

[The Fireman]

the cartwheels and party poppers form our players after the game was a bit much I thought.

[WellardSaint]

Most of the players have a big grin on their faces as they're chatting to opponents
as if it's just like a social indoor cricket game.
And one supposed big-noting ITK says
"don't ever think the boys aren't hurting, because they are..."
Yeah, sure, I work my butt off doing nightshift and near the end of my shift, I am hurting
and I am grumpy and not happy at all.
I don't go yadayadayada happy happy happy...
"Hurting"? it's just an act in front of the coaching staff during a post-match review.

[WellardSaint]

oh, remember that game where Rooey had to apologise to
a young marketing lady, for dragging the lads off the ground,
after we'd beaten the Injectors.
He set a very high standard and that match was not up to his standard,
so quite rightly, he did the alpha male thing (I am not being sarcastic BTW)
and needed to address some issues.
"This is not good enough" etc.

See, we now have a rubbish unskilled moronic captain who kicks over team-mates' heads, kicks to opponents
instead of team-mates, oh "but he tries hard"

[bigred]

Dunstan would be winning our B&F by a country mile at the moment.

[Enrico_Misso]

I hate that.

By all means shake hands with you your direct opponent.
That is good sportsmanship.

But it annoys the hell out of me to see opponents standing round for a minute or two - smiling, cracking jokes and hugging or patting each other on the back.
Yes I understand that some of these guys played junior footy together and know each other quite well.
But the time to be matey matey is not 30 seconds after your team has lost a game.
Players should be upset, exhausted, regretful, remorseful and downbeat.

To see them bouncing around looking jovial, upbeat and friendly is disrespectful to the club, the fans and their teammates.

[WellardSaint]

Enrico has nailed it.
No need to say more, except +1000

[ROLS-LEE]

Dunstan would be winning our B&F by a country mile at the moment.

And for some idiotic reason he was playing in the twos at the start of the year.

[Sainternist]

Well observed, Loris. I think it's a case of two guys wearing their hearts on their sleeves for the club. It's a good thing one of them is the captain. Poor old Luke Dunstan must be fed up to the back teeth. He struggled to find form throughout most of last year and now he has finally found some touch, but his teammates simply haven't been up to snuff and he has been without the added reward of playing in some wins.

[loris]

oh, remember that game where Rooey had to apologise to
a young marketing lady, for dragging the lads off the ground,
after we'd beaten the Injectors.
He set a very high standard and that match was not up to his standard,
so quite rightly, he did the alpha male thing (I am not being sarcastic BTW)
and needed to address some issues.
"This is not good enough" etc.

See, we now have a rubbish unskilled moronic captain who kicks over team-mates' heads, kicks to opponents
instead of team-mates, oh "but he tries hard"

I have a very similar story to Rooey’s approach, WS

Many years ago when Nathan Burke was leading the Saints. The Saints played over here in Perth, can’t recall who it was we played, but we were trounced.

It was in the days when the players came back to the Hyde Park hotel after the match to the Western Saints function. Well we supporters in the West are starved of seeing our players so everyone was enthuastic. As all the players filed into the pub all the supporters clapped and cheered then.

What a reaction we were in for!! Nathan Burke straight away got upfront and berated us supporters.
He told us, the players did not deserve any praise. He said, they played dismally, did not follow instructions, some showed no heart and turned their toes up and just let the game run out. He was disappointed that we would clap and cheer them into the room. Well you could have heard a pin drop. Some of the players looked really down after that serve from Nathan. Nathan was disappointed that supporters would accept that performance from the team as he sure didn’t.

Maybe Nathan Burke needs to get involved with the Saints in an official capacity once again.... we obviously need that type of discipline and leadership at the moment

[saynta]

Do i stand around talking and congratulating opposition supporters after we have just lost to them?

No f****** way.

Goes back to PC coaches of under age teams who are taught to clap their winning opponents off the ground after shaking all their hands.

Good sportsmanship or nambie pambie rubbish.

We didn't do that when I played.

[oh when the]

But now the club does sainter of the day

[thejiggingsaint]

oh, remember that game where Rooey had to apologise to
a young marketing lady, for dragging the lads off the ground,
after we'd beaten the Injectors.
He set a very high standard and that match was not up to his standard,
so quite rightly, he did the alpha male thing (I am not being sarcastic BTW)
and needed to address some issues.
"This is not good enough" etc.

See, we now have a rubbish unskilled moronic captain who kicks over team-mates' heads, kicks to opponents
instead of team-mates, oh "but he tries hard"

I have a very similar story to Rooey’s approach, WS

Many years ago when Nathan Burke was leading the Saints. The Saints played over here in Perth, can’t recall who it was we played, but we were trounced.

It was in the days when the players came back to the Hyde Park hotel after the match to the Western Saints function. Well we supporters in the West are starved of seeing our players so everyone was enthuastic. As all the players filed into the pub all the supporters clapped and cheered then.

What a reaction we were in for!! Nathan Burke straight away got upfront and berated us supporters.
He told us, the players did not deserve any praise. He said, they played dismally, did not follow instructions, some showed no heart and turned their toes up and just let the game run out. He was disappointed that we would clap and cheer them into the room. Well you could have heard a pin drop. Some of the players looked really down after that serve from Nathan. Nathan was disappointed that supporters would accept that performance from the team as he sure didn’t.

Maybe Nathan Burke needs to get involved with the Saints in an official capacity once again.... we obviously need that type of discipline and leadership at the moment

That’s a very good post Loris. Burkey was no “superstar” BUT what a man to have on your side! It was at the concluding game of the 2000 season, a drubbing from North Melbourne, that Nathan Burke brought the 22 players down to the Lockett end. Burkey removed his helmet, took hold of a microphone, and apologised to supporters on behalf of himself and the players for such a dreadful season. Tim Watson on the other hand, instead of being with the playing group, slunk away down the race without a solitary glance toward the fans. Sort of sums it all up for me. We could do WAY worse than to offer Burkey the gig of director of football. ( IMHO )

[saintspremiers]

oh, remember that game where Rooey had to apologise to
a young marketing lady, for dragging the lads off the ground,
after we'd beaten the Injectors.
He set a very high standard and that match was not up to his standard,
so quite rightly, he did the alpha male thing (I am not being sarcastic BTW)
and needed to address some issues.
"This is not good enough" etc.

See, we now have a rubbish unskilled moronic captain who kicks over team-mates' heads, kicks to opponents
instead of team-mates, oh "but he tries hard"

I have a very similar story to Rooey’s approach, WS

Many years ago when Nathan Burke was leading the Saints. The Saints played over here in Perth, can’t recall who it was we played, but we were trounced.

It was in the days when the players came back to the Hyde Park hotel after the match to the Western Saints function. Well we supporters in the West are starved of seeing our players so everyone was enthuastic. As all the players filed into the pub all the supporters clapped and cheered then.

What a reaction we were in for!! Nathan Burke straight away got upfront and berated us supporters.
He told us, the players did not deserve any praise. He said, they played dismally, did not follow instructions, some showed no heart and turned their toes up and just let the game run out. He was disappointed that we would clap and cheer them into the room. Well you could have heard a pin drop. Some of the players looked really down after that serve from Nathan. Nathan was disappointed that supporters would accept that performance from the team as he sure didn’t.

Maybe Nathan Burke needs to get involved with the Saints in an official capacity once again.... we obviously need that type of discipline and leadership at the moment

Why the heck were you cheering after a loss?

Sad bunch you Sandgropers must’ve been, either that or pissed as farts!

[evertonfc]

Well done for starting this thread. It's quite brave, because it usually gets howled down.

But it's an issue that is very subtly undermining the competitive instincts of the competition.

The reason for the collegiality among footballers these days is quite simple. They're not rivals. They're colleagues.

Most of them actually have an identity that is tied to being an "professional athlete" rather than a "St Kilda footballer". You'll see many, in their Instagram profiles, as referring to themselves as "Nike Athlete".

This is how they see themselves, unless they become inexorably linked with a club (like Riewoldt, for example).

Footballers are mass produced in the TAC Cup; the biggest hurdle for these guys is not what happens at AFL level. It is simply getting drafted. That's where the bulk of their character is defined and their biggest life struggle. They have all shared this journey; this is where their bond is now forged.

"I just want to get onto a list/I don't care who I play for" has to usurped the dream of "I want to play for the club I grew up supporting". Who can blame them?

So when they get to a club, it doesn't matter if it's club XYZ, because all clubs are effectively the same now, at least structurally (quality of personnel differs, as we see with our club).

And when you're in the system, it takes care of you. You obtain fabulous financial rewards, you acquire a lucrative social status. Family and friends elevate your importance. You can acquire a higher-status partner than you would if you didn't play the sport. You're paid to train; you get amazing sports scientists to help you look and feel physically supreme. And the world tells you you're marvellous for it.

And so, when you come to the end of each game, you're not competing with a rival, you're testing yourself against somebody who has been on a similar journey. They've suffered (because it's not easy to reach the top) to get this far. They're almost like your brothers, be they on your club, or not. That's what the system has produced.

And so, we don't "own" our own players, we now rent them from the AFL Centralised Pool. For us, they're like temp workers. Their loyalty is to the contract they signed.

This is the system we've created. And if you're wondering why there's a camaraderie among players - from opposition clubs - this is the reason why.

[rodgerfox]

we don't "own" our own players, we now rent them from the AFL Centralised Pool. For us, they're like temp workers. Their loyalty is to the contract they signed.

Good summary.

[Sainternist]

oh, remember that game where Rooey had to apologise to
a young marketing lady, for dragging the lads off the ground,
after we'd beaten the Injectors.
He set a very high standard and that match was not up to his standard,
so quite rightly, he did the alpha male thing (I am not being sarcastic BTW)
and needed to address some issues.
"This is not good enough" etc.

See, we now have a rubbish unskilled moronic captain who kicks over team-mates' heads, kicks to opponents
instead of team-mates, oh "but he tries hard"

I have a very similar story to Rooey’s approach, WS

Many years ago when Nathan Burke was leading the Saints. The Saints played over here in Perth, can’t recall who it was we played, but we were trounced.

It was in the days when the players came back to the Hyde Park hotel after the match to the Western Saints function. Well we supporters in the West are starved of seeing our players so everyone was enthuastic. As all the players filed into the pub all the supporters clapped and cheered then.

What a reaction we were in for!! Nathan Burke straight away got upfront and berated us supporters.
He told us, the players did not deserve any praise. He said, they played dismally, did not follow instructions, some showed no heart and turned their toes up and just let the game run out. He was disappointed that we would clap and cheer them into the room. Well you could have heard a pin drop. Some of the players looked really down after that serve from Nathan. Nathan was disappointed that supporters would accept that performance from the team as he sure didn’t.

Maybe Nathan Burke needs to get involved with the Saints in an official capacity once again.... we obviously need that type of discipline and leadership at the moment

That’s a very good post Loris. Burkey was no “superstar” BUT what a man to have on your side! It was at the concluding game of the 2000 season, a drubbing from North Melbourne, that Nathan Burke brought the 22 players down to the Lockett end. Burkey removed his helmet, took hold of a microphone, and apologised to supporters on behalf of himself and the players for such a dreadful season. Tim Watson on the other hand, instead of being with the playing group, slunk away down the race without a solitary glance toward the fans. Sort of sums it all up for me. We could do WAY worse than to offer Burkey the gig of director of football. ( IMHO )

Hahaha Poor old Timmy couldn't get away any quicker. I remember when he announced his resignation a few weeks before the end of that wretched season. I think I took one of the biggest sighs of relief in all the times supporting the Saints. It felt like an enormous burden lifted. I just hope Richo can find it within himself to do the same, because he is simply out of ideas. If we have him for another two seasons after this year, he'll effectively represent a pair of concrete shoes in an ocean abyss and we'll be finding ourselves 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea.

Great story, Loris. Loved Burkey's hot-blooded conviction for the club.