Tom Hickey

[Crossy66]

Longer in the VFL last weekend:-

1 kick
4 handballs
1 mark

At least Longer is consistent no matter what level he plays at

It is good to see Hickey contributing again after a season decimated by injury in 2017

plus 5 tackles and 40 hitouts !

[stonecold]

Longer in the VFL last weekend:-

1 kick
4 handballs
1 mark

At least Longer is consistent no matter what level he plays at

It is good to see Hickey contributing again after a season decimated by injury in 2017

plus 5 tackles and 40 hitouts !

He/she doesn't want to see those stats, just worries about possession's!!!!!

A ruckmans hitouts are not important to some of the 'Ruck Experts' on here!!!!!

It's just the cheap possies around the ground that matter apparently, not centre clearances, hit outs to advantage, physical presence, how much of an influence your direct opponent has on the game!!!!!

Just as long as you get a few touches around the ground, as the song goes: Nothing else matters!!!!!

Never played a game in the Ruck in their lives, more than likely never played a game of footy?????

[SydneySainter]

Longer in the VFL last weekend:-

1 kick
4 handballs
1 mark

At least Longer is consistent no matter what level he plays at

It is good to see Hickey contributing again after a season decimated by injury in 2017

plus 5 tackles and 40 hitouts !

He/she doesn't want to see those stats, just worries about possession's!!!!!

A ruckmans hitouts are not important to some of the 'Ruck Experts' on here!!!!!

It's just the cheap possies around the ground that matter apparently, not centre clearances, hit outs to advantage, physical presence, how much of an influence your direct opponent has on the game!!!!!

Just as long as you get a few touches around the ground, as the song goes: Nothing else matters!!!!!

Never played a game in the Ruck in their lives, more than likely never played a game of footy?????

So what is Longer’s plan B when he’s losing the ruck battle and unable to tap to the advantage of our already workmanlike midfield?

[stonecold]

Longer in the VFL last weekend:-

1 kick
4 handballs
1 mark

At least Longer is consistent no matter what level he plays at

It is good to see Hickey contributing again after a season decimated by injury in 2017

plus 5 tackles and 40 hitouts !

He/she doesn't want to see those stats, just worries about possession's!!!!!

A ruckmans hitouts are not important to some of the 'Ruck Experts' on here!!!!!

It's just the cheap possies around the ground that matter apparently, not centre clearances, hit outs to advantage, physical presence, how much of an influence your direct opponent has on the game!!!!!

Just as long as you get a few touches around the ground, as the song goes: Nothing else matters!!!!!

Never played a game in the Ruck in their lives, more than likely never played a game of footy?????

So what is Longer’s plan B when he’s losing the ruck battle and unable to tap to the advantage of our already workmanlike midfield?

So what is Tom's plan A?????

He is 27 years old, has not improved he's ruckwork, physicality and doesn't defend (shut down he's opponent)!!!!!
Gets 10 or 13 cheap possessions around the ground, might as well just run another mid through the midfield and aim for 20 cheap possies!!!!!
(Would be just as competitive in Centre Bounces)

Longer has the capabilities to get the ball (not at Tom's level) however had a limited preseason and is playing injured!!!!!!
Got double figure possession games last year!!!!!

As previously stated, both Ruckman have weaknesses and different weaknesses, so neither is perfect, Tom got the nod over Billy (thru injury), however, he's direct opponents have received votes in the last three games, not good enough, if it was an opponent half back or half forward say playing on one of the forums whipping boys (Weller, Gilbert, Geary etc) and receiving votes in 3 consecutive games, imagine the same 'self proclaimed Forum Footy Experts' and their reaction!!!!!

At the end of the day: Longer has more upside than Hickey, sure gets less touches around the ground, however does not constantly allow the Opposition Ruck a bruise free, free ride!!!!!

Longer is 25, Hickey is 27!!!!!

Neither is perfect!!!!!

If you haven't played Ruck, you wouldn't understand, with is quite obvious on this forum, if you read closely, it's pretty easy to work out which posters have had some sort of successful careers in football!!!!!

I have played many games as first ruck at good levels, so I'm pretty confident I know what I'm talking about at this particular skill!!!!!

[samoht]

Clearance numbers have more to do with the clearance players - and this is pretty obvious again this year.
Bulldogs are averaging a meagre 23.5 hitouts per game over the 8 games so far this year, yet they have averaged an impressive 37.6 clearances per game (over the 8 games).
West Coast Eagles have averaged 51.8 hitouts ... for 38 clearance - so an extra 28.3 hitouts on average per game has resulted in only 0.4 more clearances per game (compared to the Bulldogs).

So, the West Coast Eagle's 28.3 extra hitouts are neither here nor there (they are probably all over the shop).

So ruckmen need to do a lot more than win the hitouts or hurt their opponents, physically (you get rubbed out for anything untoward, anyway). They need to contribute around the ground - be footballers - not passengers.

[Hemi Baxter]

Why on earth would the club be playing Longer at Sandringham if he was injured? How would that help him to recover so that he gets a shot at getting his spot back in the ones? How would it help the club in any way?
What it is doing, whether he's injured or not, is showing that most ruckman in the VFL can beat him. I went to the game on Sunday and to me and others even Draper worked better and harder at the stoppages.

[Scollop]

I'll summarise for Stoney: Tom is better than Bill right now because Bill is injured

[stonecold]

Clearance numbers have more to do with the clearance players - and this is pretty obvious again this year.
Bulldogs are averaging a meagre 23.5 hitouts per game over the 8 games so far this year, yet they have averaged an impressive 37.6 clearances per game (over the 8 games).
West Coast Eagles have averaged 51.8 hitouts ... for 38 clearance - so an extra 28.3 hitouts on average per game has resulted in only 0.4 more clearances per game (compared to the Bulldogs).

So, the West Coast Eagle's 28.3 extra hitouts are neither here nor there (they are probably all over the shop).

So ruckmen need to do a lot more than win the hitouts or hurt their opponents, physically (you get rubbed out for anything untoward, anyway). They need to contribute around the ground - be footballers - not passengers.

You don't understand, simple!!!!!!

[Scollop]

I'll summarise for Stoney ( coz u dont understand ): Bill is heavier and more aggressive in the ruck than Tom and by softening up his opponents, Bill can bring them down to his level of disposals in a game

[stonecold]

I'll summarise for Stoney ( coz u dont understand ): Bill is heavier and more aggressive in the ruck than Tom and by softening up his opponents, Bill can bring them down to his level of disposals in a game

Don't need you to summarise, thanks, reckon I've got you covered!!!!!

[The_Dud]

Stonecold I think it’s become pretty obvious that you don’t understand. Your opinion on the ruck is stuck in the 80s. Dinosaurs who can’t take a mark or get a kick aren’t wanted anymore. Though he’s always got that unmeasurable ‘physical presence’ that you keep referring to...

But why don’t we look at this years stats:

In games where Longer was our number one we averaged 27.5 clearances for and 37 against, with a differential of -9.5

In games where Hickey was our number one we averaged 31.5 clearances for and 34.2 against, with a differential of -2.7

SO in conclusion, with Hickey we average more clearances for us, less for the opposition, and are 6.8 better off in the differential

So I’m not sure what this says about Longer’s apparently far superior tap work...

[stonecold]

Stonecold I think it’s become pretty obvious that you don’t understand. Your opinion on the ruck is stuck in the 80s. Dinosaurs who can’t take a mark or get a kick aren’t wanted anymore. Though he’s always got that unmeasurable ‘physical presence’ that you keep referring to...

But why don’t we look at this years stats:

In games where Longer was our number one we averaged 27.5 clearances for and 37 against, with a differential of -9.5

In games where Hickey was our number one we averaged 31.5 clearances for and 34.2 against, with a differential of -2.7

SO in conclusion, with Hickey we average more clearances for us, less for the opposition, and are 6.8 better off in the differential

So I’m not sure what this says about Longer’s apparently far superior tap work...

So, you basing that on Longers two games playing injured, one of which he spent most of the second half off the ground (so not he's clearance stats), if your gonna check stats, do a proper job and factor these things in!!!!!

Longer two opponents were: Martin and Goldy (more than handy pairing), not Simpson/Patton for example!!!!!

Once again, pick and choose the stats that enforce the argument!!!!!

Do yourself a favour and check the relevant stats over their respective careers!!!!!!

By the way, I'm quite aware its not the 80's (where you even born by then), I send my regards to rucks such as Simon Madden, Gary Dempsey, Barry Round, Peter Moore etc etc and let them know they never got a kick and were slow dinasours, cause you said so!!!!!

Go away and find a subject you know something about!!!!!

[The_Dud]

Stonecold I think it’s become pretty obvious that you don’t understand. Your opinion on the ruck is stuck in the 80s. Dinosaurs who can’t take a mark or get a kick aren’t wanted anymore. Though he’s always got that unmeasurable ‘physical presence’ that you keep referring to...

But why don’t we look at this years stats:

In games where Longer was our number one we averaged 27.5 clearances for and 37 against, with a differential of -9.5

In games where Hickey was our number one we averaged 31.5 clearances for and 34.2 against, with a differential of -2.7

SO in conclusion, with Hickey we average more clearances for us, less for the opposition, and are 6.8 better off in the differential

So I’m not sure what this says about Longer’s apparently far superior tap work...

So, you basing that on Longers two games playing injured, one of which he spent most of the second half off the ground (so not he's clearance stats), if your gonna check stats, do a proper job and factor these things in!!!!!

Longer two opponents were: Martin and Goldy (more than handy pairing), not Simpson/Patton for example!!!!!

Once again, pick and choose the stats that enforce the argument!!!!!

Do yourself a favour and check the relevant stats over their respective careers!!!!!!

By the way, I'm quite aware its not the 80's (where you even born by then), I send my regards to rucks such as Simon Madden, Gary Dempsey, Barry Round, Peter Moore etc etc and let them know they never got a kick and were slow dinasours, cause you said so!!!!!

Go away and find a subject you know something about!!!!!

I’m basing everything off Longer’s whole career of being a very average footballer (never averaged double figure disposals, and has a grand total of 4 goals)

I’m using the most recent stats from this year to compare them right now. We can look at Longer’s weekend in the 2s, where he picked up a grand total of 1 mark and 2 effective handballs... wowee! Really banging the door down!

Let’s look at the one full game he played this year then, where the bottom of the ladder team with no wins this season and playing away had 17 more clearances than us! And please don’t invent more rubbish (ahem, physical presence) like ‘playing injured’ as an excuse. Maybe he’s been playing injured his whole career? Ha

And I suppose Sandilands, Gawn and McEvoy are no Goldy or Martin...

No matter how hard you try twist it there is no evidence or stats to back up your claim that Longer is a far superior tap ruckman than Hickey. Slightly better, yeah maybe. But this is far outweighed by his absolute inability to contribute anywhere else around the ground. For now Hickey is our clear number one. No one is claiming he’s a top 10 ruckman in the AFL, just that he’s our current best option.

So I will continue to talk about subjects I know about, and will come see you if I want to know about ruckwork in the 80s

[stonecold]

Come see me anytime you like!!!!!

Plus my Career was not in the 80's, so dream your little dream little man!!!!!

[portosaint]

Come see me anytime you like!!!!!

Plus my Career was not in the 80's, so dream your little dream little man!!!!!

Maybe you should apply for a coaching job

[To the top]

Longer Longer Longer
Longer Longer Longer
Longer Geary Longer
Longer Longer Longer
Longer Longer Longer
Hickey Longer Longer
Longer Longer Longer Longer

There you go big man!!!

A side which will give short shift to every other side in the competition, no doubt!

Given that fielding the above side will have you in 7th Heaven can you now take the advice you have dished out to others and quietly exit stage right?

There is an old saying which goes "Change hands at 99"

But I would anticipate the problem for you is the lack of the ability to count to 99!!

[takeaway]

Hickey has definitely been better than Longer this year. Longer was better last year & Hickey the year before. Weird.

Longer was obviously not fully fit in the couple of games he played (why was he selected?) and has shown no improvement since. Why, I am not sure, but I think he is the sort of player that will never really star in the 2's but is capable of lifting his game in the firsts.

Hickey is better around the ground, but only average at hitouts.

If we ever get our game going, and want to challenge the top sides, we are better off having a chance of winning the ruck hitouts, rather than a few possessions around the ground. So to me a fully fit, in form Billy is better than an in form Hickey. When he was playing well Billy at least broke even in the hitouts, and also defended the other ruckman effectively around the ground. Never will be one for a large number of possessions - doesn't really matter.
I hope he regains form.

[SydneySainter]

Let’s be brutally honest about Longer. He’s got a big frame and better in the ruck duals then Hickey, but he’s far from a hitout machine who is rarely beaten either. When he is beaten, then we really are playing a man down.

I think Longer would look a lot better if he was servicing a star midfield like Geelong or GWS, but we have a B-grade centre at best, so a serviceable ruckman who maybe touches the ball 5 times a game is outweighed by a slightly less serviceable ruckman who is at least mobile, can get the footy and also go forward and jag a goal.

If Longer was one of the best tap rucks in the game, he would probably get the nod over Hickey. But let’s face it, he’s not.

[The_Dud]

Come see me anytime you like!!!!!

Plus my Career was not in the 80's, so dream your little dream little man!!!!!

I’m not worried about your ‘career’ (which I’m thinking is about as real as my football career), I’m just pointing out where your knowledge of an effective ruckman about sits.

[takeaway]

Let’s be brutally honest about Longer. He’s got a big frame and better in the ruck duals then Hickey, but he’s far from a hitout machine who is rarely beaten either. When he is beaten, then we really are playing a man down.

I think Longer would look a lot better if he was servicing a star midfield like Geelong or GWS, but we have a B-grade centre at best, so a serviceable ruckman who maybe touches the ball 5 times a game is outweighed by a slightly less serviceable ruckman who is at least mobile, can get the footy and also go forward and jag a goal.

If Longer was one of the best tap rucks in the game, he would probably get the nod over Hickey. But let’s face it, he’s not.

True, Hickey is the best option at the moment. But I am saying, if we improve, perhaps add a couple to the midfield, challenge for finals. Billy (in form) is the boy.

[stonecold]

Take it easy with the common sense mate, the non footballers won't get it!!!!!

[stonecold]

Longer Longer Longer
Longer Longer Longer
Longer Geary Longer
Longer Longer Longer
Longer Longer Longer
Hickey Longer Longer
Longer Longer Longer Longer

There you go big man!!!

A side which will give short shift to every other side in the competition, no doubt!

Given that fielding the above side will have you in 7th Heaven can you now take the advice you have dished out to others and quietly exit stage right?

There is an old saying which goes "Change hands at 99"

But I would anticipate the problem for you is the lack of the ability to count to 99!!

Onya Champion, you sound like an expert at this subject, for once a subject in your wheelhouse!!!!!

Go away, your a spectator with little knowledge who wouldn't have a set to grace the field!!!!!

Typical armchair ambassador!!!!!