Need to rebuild again

[parkeysainter]

Sorry to say this, but the Saints are probably having to go into another (slight) rebuild and development phase again.

I think we need to bite the bullet and anyone that is over 25 and not up to being part of the next finals side needs to be traded out or delisted. It will cost us games and finals but so be it.

I honestly think we have a ton of good youngsters under 25 that will form the core so its not all doom and gloom. We need to get back into this draft (2nd and 3rd rounds). Possibly trade our 1st rounder for 2 x 1st rounders also. We need to add quality to the young fellas we picked up the last two years who are looking the goods and those that have been in the system for around 5 years now. E.g. Acres and Dunstan

It will be tough, but a bit of short term pain will provide long term benefits. Then we can look at trading in and picking up quality FA's at the end of 2020.

Sorry, but we just aren't a good footy side at the moment and its showing. The majority of these guys on our list over 25 are never going to take us anywhere.

[Saintmatt]

Sorry to say this, but the Saints are probably having to go into another (slight) rebuild and development phase again.

I think we need to bite the bullet and anyone that is over 25 and not up to being part of the next finals side needs to be traded out or delisted. It will cost us games and finals but so be it.

I honestly think we have a ton of good youngsters under 25 that will form the core so its not all doom and gloom. We need to get back into this draft (2nd and 3rd rounds). Possibly trade our 1st rounder for 2 x 1st rounders also. We need to add quality to the young fellas we picked up the last two years who are looking the goods and those that have been in the system for around 5 years now. E.g. Acres and Dunstan

It will be tough, but a bit of short term pain will provide long term benefits. Then we can look at trading in and picking up quality FA's at the end of 2020.

Sorry, but we just aren't a good footy side at the moment and its showing. The majority of these guys on our list over 25 are never going to take us anywhere.

There's a bit of merit in that however, if history has shown us anything - it's that trading in and FA only works for those who are already successful or so close that it'd be impossible for them not to be successful. On that basis - it would be nigh on impossible to attract an FA now or in 2020 if we've started to re-build again.

Unfortunately, we've got so many holes in our list from misusing picks in previous drafts that it's almost impossible to moneyball our way through to the promised land. And then you have the ridiculous situation of trading away our 2/3 rd) picks in this draft for a 2nd string Port defender who can't manage a game in a bottom team.

I actually just don't trust the people who masquerade as list management / recruiters @ St KFC to not stuff up a re-build. Again.

[james rose]

Am I right in saying the following are free agents at the moment?

Murphy (30)
Gaff (25)
Sloane (28)

All 3 have 3 years plus left in them. It might take one mighty sell but if we could land two of the three it would be game changing for us.

Long shot but this would actually be my priority- would love to see our admin think more like the swans and work out a way to make it happen ala buddy.

[DJ Higgins]

I think we will naturally have a rebuild next year anyway. Armo and Gilbo will be gone most likely plus a few Lonie-esq player as well. Problem is we have few picks this year so i expect young players will get games because we need to field a team. But for the love of god, no more HBF's in this years drafts

[Furphy]

But full kudos to the announcement "we'll be a top four side in 2018" for putting a new spin on "five year plan" - shuts up critics for at least four years

[iwantmeseats]

There is not one single player on our list I would have a problem with being traded.
Bird has flown.
Time to go again.

[To the top]

The problem is NOT the rebuild, it is where the rebuild started from.

We have no continuity between our elite players (and 2009 and 2010 Grand Finals) and the current side.

And you could debate that the inclusion of players such as Peake, Birss, Saad and the list goes on and on did us no favors because we should have been investing in Drafted youth to compliment the elite players of that period not "hack role players" from other sides.

Yes, our Draft Picks were later because of our position on the Ladder but apart from Steven and Armitage (who should have been blooded in those successful sides) there is nothing to show and a massive void in our List demographic.

Gilbert was a contributor, and is now our experience.

The upshot is that far, far too much expectation is being heaped on Mc Cartin, Billings, Dunstan, Acres, Gresham, Clark, Coffield et al and absent any contribution from elite players to shield and guide them on field.

The absence of Riewoldt, Montagna and Dempster is hurting and will continue to hurt for a little while yet.

Yes, we have added the slendid Carlisle and the unlucky (to date) Freeman but the remainder we have attempted to improve our List with have come to St Kilda to gain opportunity not available at the Clubs they left - so we hope those others Clubs missed what is now opportunity for St Kilda.

As I have said before, this season is a season for concentrating on individual players, looking for the signs and starting with Mc Cartin, Billings, Clark, Coffield, Dunstan, Acres and Gresham - then to those we Drafted in the 20's and 30's

And looking for the iceing on the cake, aka Phillips and hopefully Freeman over the coming couple of weeks (noting his continuity thru last season until injuring an ankle and now this season).

From last weekend's game (via a screen), the players who said "Pick me" were (in no particular order) Dunstan, Acres, Hickey, Gresham in parts, Steven, Billings (in parts), Carlisle (until concussed by Fyffe taking no care in running past and not attempting to take possession or to tackle by bending therefore should be cited), Clark (in parts), Coffield (in parts) and Phillips.

And Webster who I had put a line thru because of losing his feet just too easily and not playing to his 188cm overhead but am now re-appraising (again from a screen so not able to identify responsibility for the opposition players running free as they did including coast to coast goals just far, far too easily).

The remainder are under Notice.

On that basis (and allowing for injuries and a recovering Freeman), we have half a side - hence the results we are getting

[Cairnsman]

Move back to Seaford the spiritual home for this generation of players.
Clearly there is confusion amongst the players and they now have too much choice in coffee shops.

[saynta]

Move back to Seaford the spiritual home for this generation of players.
Clearly there is confusion amongst the players and they now have too much choice in coffee shops.

You may be right.

Any spare time the players have, they should be out on the ground practicing their kicking and not just goal kicking, not sitting around drinking cups of coffee.

[dragit]

Sorry to say this, but the Saints are probably having to go into another (slight) rebuild and development phase again.

I think we need to bite the bullet and anyone that is over 25 and not up to being part of the next finals side needs to be traded out or delisted. It will cost us games and finals but so be it.

I honestly think we have a ton of good youngsters under 25 that will form the core so its not all doom and gloom. We need to get back into this draft (2nd and 3rd rounds). Possibly trade our 1st rounder for 2 x 1st rounders also. We need to add quality to the young fellas we picked up the last two years who are looking the goods and those that have been in the system for around 5 years now. E.g. Acres and Dunstan

It will be tough, but a bit of short term pain will provide long term benefits. Then we can look at trading in and picking up quality FA's at the end of 2020.

Sorry, but we just aren't a good footy side at the moment and its showing. The majority of these guys on our list over 25 are never going to take us anywhere.

But you said we were going great and would make the finals only a month or so back

[Sainternist]

In order to start a new rebuild we'll have to clean out the front office and get a new coach. On the upside, at least we don't have some of the same problems that RL left us with.

[Devilhead]

The problem is NOT the rebuild, it is where the rebuild started from.

We have no continuity between our elite players (and 2009 and 2010 Grand Finals) and the current side.

And you could debate that the inclusion of players such as Peake, Birss, Saad and the list goes on and on did us no favors because we should have been investing in Drafted youth to compliment the elite players of that period not "hack role players" from other sides.

Yes, our Draft Picks were later because of our position on the Ladder but apart from Steven and Armitage (who should have been blooded in those successful sides) there is nothing to show and a massive void in our List demographic.

Gilbert was a contributor, and is now our experience.

The upshot is that far, far too much expectation is being heaped on Mc Cartin, Billings, Dunstan, Acres, Gresham, Clark, Coffield et al and absent any contribution from elite players to shield and guide them on field.

The absence of Riewoldt, Montagna and Dempster is hurting and will continue to hurt for a little while yet.

Yes, we have added the slendid Carlisle and the unlucky (to date) Freeman but the remainder we have attempted to improve our List with have come to St Kilda to gain opportunity not available at the Clubs they left - so we hope those others Clubs missed what is now opportunity for St Kilda.

As I have said before, this season is a season for concentrating on individual players, looking for the signs and starting with Mc Cartin, Billings, Clark, Coffield, Dunstan, Acres and Gresham - then to those we Drafted in the 20's and 30's

And looking for the iceing on the cake, aka Phillips and hopefully Freeman over the coming couple of weeks (noting his continuity thru last season until injuring an ankle and now this season).

From last weekend's game (via a screen), the players who said "Pick me" were (in no particular order) Dunstan, Acres, Hickey, Gresham in parts, Steven, Billings (in parts), Carlisle (until concussed by Fyffe taking no care in running past and not attempting to take possession or to tackle by bending therefore should be cited), Clark (in parts), Coffield (in parts) and Phillips.

And Webster who I had put a line thru because of losing his feet just too easily and not playing to his 188cm overhead but am now re-appraising (again from a screen so not able to identify responsibility for the opposition players running free as they did including coast to coast goals just far, far too easily).

The remainder are under Notice.

On that basis (and allowing for injuries and a recovering Freeman), we have half a side - hence the results we are getting

Pretty much well this - especially the reference to our diabolical drafting of overage role players during the Lyon years - the compromised drafts didn't help either just as were coming out of our window

Our timing has always been shite

[thejiggingsaint]

The Saints are (on current developments) at least five/six years away from serious Flag contention. Get the rebuild (if that's what we need) started ASAP! This means we need to finish as low as we can on the ladder to get those draft picks. Are people prepared to put up with his? I'm not sure I could, being brutally honest.

[Sainternist]

This means we need to finish as low as we can on the ladder to get those draft picks. Are people prepared to put up with his? I'm not sure I could, being brutally honest.

The way the team is going right now, they couldn't beat an egg, let alone Brisbane or Carlton, so we might already have that going our way.

[saintspremiers]

The Saints are (on current developments) at least five/six years away from serious Flag contention. Get the rebuild (if that's what we need) started ASAP! This means we need to finish as low as we can on the ladder to get those draft picks. Are people prepared to put up with his? I'm not sure I could, being brutally honest.

That’s not the root cause of our problems.

Sydney have something like 10 players in their current team from the rookie list.

You’re NOT going to build a side just by having a few early picks.

We need to get rid of Trout ASAP and all his undelings and get a crack new recruiting team in.

Headhunt the gooduns (recruiting staff/IP) from Hawthorn, Geelong and Sydney. Those clubs are the market leaders in developing young talent over many years.

This is the solution that will work - and doesn’t rely on FA!

[Jacks Back]

Sorry to say this, but the Saints are probably having to go into another (slight) rebuild and development phase again.

I think we need to bite the bullet and anyone that is over 25 and not up to being part of the next finals side needs to be traded out or delisted. It will cost us games and finals but so be it.

I honestly think we have a ton of good youngsters under 25 that will form the core so its not all doom and gloom. We need to get back into this draft (2nd and 3rd rounds). Possibly trade our 1st rounder for 2 x 1st rounders also. We need to add quality to the young fellas we picked up the last two years who are looking the goods and those that have been in the system for around 5 years now. E.g. Acres and Dunstan

It will be tough, but a bit of short term pain will provide long term benefits. Then we can look at trading in and picking up quality FA's at the end of 2020.

Sorry, but we just aren't a good footy side at the moment and its showing. The majority of these guys on our list over 25 are never going to take us anywhere.

Who is this? I think parkey's account has been hacked.

[Jacks Back]

The Saints are (on current developments) at least five/six years away from serious Flag contention. Get the rebuild (if that's what we need) started ASAP! This means we need to finish as low as we can on the ladder to get those draft picks. Are people prepared to put up with his? I'm not sure I could, being brutally honest.

That’s not the root cause of our problems.

Sydney have something like 10 players in their current team from the rookie list.

You’re NOT going to build a side just by having a few early picks.

We need to get rid of Trout ASAP and all his undelings and get a crack new recruiting team in.

Headhunt the gooduns (recruiting staff/IP) from Hawthorn, Geelong and Sydney. Those clubs are the market leaders in developing young talent over many years.

This is the solution that will work - and doesn’t rely on FA!

Trout, et al, need to go fishing, permanently!

[parkeysainter]

Sorry to say this, but the Saints are probably having to go into another (slight) rebuild and development phase again.

I think we need to bite the bullet and anyone that is over 25 and not up to being part of the next finals side needs to be traded out or delisted. It will cost us games and finals but so be it.

I honestly think we have a ton of good youngsters under 25 that will form the core so its not all doom and gloom. We need to get back into this draft (2nd and 3rd rounds). Possibly trade our 1st rounder for 2 x 1st rounders also. We need to add quality to the young fellas we picked up the last two years who are looking the goods and those that have been in the system for around 5 years now. E.g. Acres and Dunstan

It will be tough, but a bit of short term pain will provide long term benefits. Then we can look at trading in and picking up quality FA's at the end of 2020.

Sorry, but we just aren't a good footy side at the moment and its showing. The majority of these guys on our list over 25 are never going to take us anywhere.

Who is this? I think parkey's account has been hacked.

Not hacked at all. I thought we were the goods and finals bound this year or would at least equal our last couple of years. We are a mile off even 10 wins at the moment.

We need to do a mini rebuild but keep all our good under 25's. We need to draft good kids again for the next 2 years and develop them. Its just reality and we can turn things around fairly quickly in 2-3 years.

We have too many over 25's on the list that are not taking us anywhere. We are a s*** footy side at the moment. Its time to reload with kids again for a couple of years.

First point of call is to swap our 1st rounder (probably around pick 3 to 5) for 2 x 1st rounders. Its very achievable. Just think how promising it will be if we get another Clark and Coffield again this draft. 4 x future guns in 2 drafts. We need high end quality kids and right now to get the mini rebuild moving!

[Linton Lodger]

Have you lost your positivity Parkey?

We don't need a rebuild. We've known for a while that we are 1 or 2 elite midfielders short, that hasn't changed. This list still doesn't have its Lenny Hayes or Robert Harvey.

McCartin will be a very good key forward if his health holds up. I appreciate that the health concerns are growing, but only health will deny him.

Freeman is still an 'if', but not as big an 'if' as a few weeks ago. This kid has me really excited, I'm hoping his hammys hold up because if they do, watch out. He has beautifully clean hands, knows how to get the footy, deploys laser precision handpasses and is beyond fast. If this kid gets to 100% conditioning and confidence in his body, which is becoming a bit more likely, then we're possibly going to have a 40 possesion per game beast who's burst speed makes Dangerfield's look pedestrian. He may become one of of the elite mids we're looking for.

Carlisle, Steven, Billings, Acres, Gresham, Phillips, White, Long, Coffield, Clark, Roberton, Dunstan, Steele, Ross, Sinclair, Membrey and Webster. Then what Ed Phillips has shown is that there may be a few gems at Sandy yet to get their opportunity, i.e. Battle, Paton, Austin and Rice.

No need for a rebuild, perhaps some tinkering and the recruitment of a gun as planned.

[congorozides]

McCartin will be a very good key forward if his health holds up. I appreciate that the health concerns are growing, but only health will deny him.

LOL

[Teflon]

The Saints are (on current developments) at least five/six years away from serious Flag contention. Get the rebuild (if that's what we need) started ASAP! This means we need to finish as low as we can on the ladder to get those draft picks. Are people prepared to put up with his? I'm not sure I could, being brutally honest.

By gee.........I recall being "torn" not 12 months and being abused because I suggested at the time we were papering over cracks with an ageing list and a cliff coming and for suggesting we stay down while we could to drink long and deep from the draft well (proviso being we actually do draft well but with Trout and co that's proving problematic). Regardless, the list was not then and is not now good enough so we've wasted another season

I do like the fact you've come around Jiggster just a shame it took you and some of the other blue skyers a little longer ...

[Teflon]

JUST GET NO 1 PICK for this year that's the goal
We can negotiate from there but get it first
Rest of year is purely play kids and find out who has composure /skills under pressure and can find the ball and space and those who can't
Tell the team win/loss second priority
Stop BS ing members tell them we got it wrong and need to readjust to go forward
Remove all coaches and recruitment - start fresh
Don't fall for the "let's get GT or Harvs" to coach nonsense
Be ruthless - throw $$$m and 5 years at Clarkson secretely aka Freo and Lyon deal style eff HAwks move now
Show Jeff what real insolvency looks like ....... with AFL approved cash paying for his ex coach!!

[stonecold]

The problem is NOT the rebuild, it is where the rebuild started from.

We have no continuity between our elite players (and 2009 and 2010 Grand Finals) and the current side.

And you could debate that the inclusion of players such as Peake, Birss, Saad and the list goes on and on did us no favors because we should have been investing in Drafted youth to compliment the elite players of that period not "hack role players" from other sides.

Yes, our Draft Picks were later because of our position on the Ladder but apart from Steven and Armitage (who should have been blooded in those successful sides) there is nothing to show and a massive void in our List demographic.

Gilbert was a contributor, and is now our experience.

The upshot is that far, far too much expectation is being heaped on Mc Cartin, Billings, Dunstan, Acres, Gresham, Clark, Coffield et al and absent any contribution from elite players to shield and guide them on field.

The absence of Riewoldt, Montagna and Dempster is hurting and will continue to hurt for a little while yet.

Yes, we have added the slendid Carlisle and the unlucky (to date) Freeman but the remainder we have attempted to improve our List with have come to St Kilda to gain opportunity not available at the Clubs they left - so we hope those others Clubs missed what is now opportunity for St Kilda.

As I have said before, this season is a season for concentrating on individual players, looking for the signs and starting with Mc Cartin, Billings, Clark, Coffield, Dunstan, Acres and Gresham - then to those we Drafted in the 20's and 30's

And looking for the iceing on the cake, aka Phillips and hopefully Freeman over the coming couple of weeks (noting his continuity thru last season until injuring an ankle and now this season).

From last weekend's game (via a screen), the players who said "Pick me" were (in no particular order) Dunstan, Acres, Hickey, Gresham in parts, Steven, Billings (in parts), Carlisle (until concussed by Fyffe taking no care in running past and not attempting to take possession or to tackle by bending therefore should be cited), Clark (in parts), Coffield (in parts) and Phillips.

And Webster who I had put a line thru because of losing his feet just too easily and not playing to his 188cm overhead but am now re-appraising (again from a screen so not able to identify responsibility for the opposition players running free as they did including coast to coast goals just far, far too easily).

The remainder are under Notice.

On that basis (and allowing for injuries and a recovering Freeman), we have half a side - hence the results we are getting

So Hickey played better than Webster last game?????

[To the top]

Where exactly was that said?

Perhaps you should concentrate on your Grade 3 NAPLAN test.

And can I suggest that you take your own advice?

[stonecold]

Where exactly was that said?

Perhaps you should concentrate on your Grade 3 NAPLAN test.

And can I suggest that you take your own advice?

What?????

You didn't have Jimmy as a pick me!!!!!

Don't think you have the nous/football pedigree to be reappraising anyone who plays at this level!!!!!

Just could a player stands 188cm doesn't mean he has to be a strong mark!!!!!