Jake Carlisle Must Play Forward

[bigcarl]

Any coincidence that our last quarter resurgence coincided with Carlisle’s move forward?

[takeaway]

NO. If we want to go backwards in our development, play Carlisle permanently forward. Pinch hit as a forward on occasions only.

Much better on the backline, not tough or agile enough with his crook knees for a permanent forward.

[SaintPav]

NO. If we want to go backwards in our development, play Carlisle permanently forward. Pinch hit as a forward on occasions only.

Much better on the backline, not tough or agile enough with his crook knees for a permanent forward.

+ 1

[bigred]

Have a look at how many marks he took deep in defence ffs.

[ausfatcat]

Any coincidence that our last quarter resurgence coincided with Carlisle’s move forward?

No because he only spent the last 3 or 4 mins in the forward line, but took like 4 intercept marks in the backline before that.

[saintspremiers]

Jake is one of the best tall defenders in the league.

If it ain’t broke why ffs it?! (As saynta/stinger would say)

[The Fireman]

agree with takeaway.. a pinch hitter

[howlinwolf]

I'd be leaving him in the backline myself.
Sunday's example is understandable. Late in the game with the points there for the taking and a little lacking up forward. Yeah move him and roll the dice.

I can't remember the last defender we had that was such a reliable mark and reader of the ball.
We would have been on the end of some horrendous beatings without him there.All the while he'd be getting cold up in the forward line.

Let's just leave him where he is and say that position is buttoned up. Work on the forward line.

[bigcarl]

Jake is one of the best tall defenders in the league.

If it ain’t broke why ffs it?! (As saynta/stinger would say)

Because it is broken.

We are the 18th in the league for turning inside 50s into scores.

We often even win the inside 50s and get rolled.

We have big problems in attack, despite a morale-boosting draw on Saturday, and structurallly we need a good centre half forward. It would leave a big hole in defence obviously. Bruce could go back there when he’s right.

[degruch]

Any coincidence that our last quarter resurgence coincided with Carlisle’s move forward?

No because he only spent the last 3 or 4 mins in the forward line, but took like 4 intercept marks in the backline before that.

...and it was our midfield taking clean possession from the centre that led to that resurgence regardless. I'm not sure 3-4 minutes in one out the forward line is justifiable evidence we should destroy our defensive structure.

[parkeysainter]

Carlisle only went down back in the last quarter because he was totally spent and could hardly move. Richo and Carlisle confirmed this.

[Scollop]

Couple of points to consider for those of you who think Carlisle should play forward:

1. He has stated on many occasions that he prefers to play as a backman
2. There is more pressure on him as forward to hold his marks because he'll usually have an opponent on his hammer

These are facts, and whether you have opinions on where it's better for the team where Carlisle plays, you have to consider the facts. With point number 2 you can't compare his marking as an intercept defender and extropalate that he'll take lots of marks in the forward line. We all know there's more pressure as a forward. I reckon that's a large part of the reason for pont number 1. When your team isn't on top of the ladder, where is it easier to get a few kicks? I reckon he also knows that his team will be relying on him to not only take the grabs and beat his defender, but also there's a lot more pressure kicking it through the big sticks, rather than just field kicking. Not calling him soft - just stating that he is honest in communicating his preference to play as a defender.

Compare Jake's dropped mark before the final siren to the mark Paddy took a few minutes before that. Paddy got decent body contact a split second after he marked the footy late in the last quarter but he didn't drop the mark. Carlisle did not clutch the footy on the first grab.

The other thing that I reckon people haven't considered is that when he intercepts in defence he usually marks the footy unnopposed. Not always, but clearly the majority of the time he is not contesting when he marks in defence, because he's given the licence from the coaches to read the play and try and intercept at every opportunity. That's why Brown and Gilbo were manning their forwards.

[evertonfc]

FFS - he's the best defender we have, play him there.

This reminds me of the ridiculous concept of Gilbert playing forward, based on ONE goal in the 2010 GF.

Jake is struggling a bit with the mental side right now, because his teammates aren't pulling their weight. But he'll recover soon, don't worry about that.

[Scollop]

Jake is one of the best tall defenders in the league.

If it ain’t broke why ffs it?! (As saynta/stinger would say)

Because it is broken.

We are the 18th in the league for turning inside 50s into scores.

We often even win the inside 50s and get rolled.

We have big problems in attack, despite a morale-boosting draw on Saturday, and structurallly we need a good centre half forward. It would leave a big hole in defence obviously. Bruce could go back there when he’s right.

We don't just have problems in attack. The delivery has been horrendous. We need to improve our kicking skills. We currently have a good structure and it needs time for the mids to get used to Paddy as one of the main go to tall forwards along with Bruce and Membrey. When they are all fit I reckon this will be an awesome forward line supported by Gresh, JB and Longy. YES. Get used to it people.

[bigcarl]

McCartin showed great signs on the weekend, but I’m not sure he’s good enough yet to be the sole genuine key position forward. Some will disagree, but I reckon you need more than one anyway.

Membrey, besides being out of form and possibly back a little prematurely, is a very good mark for his size, but isn’t a real key position player. He lacks the crash physicality a good key forward provides.

Bruce ... well he’s six weeks away. Good bash and crash type, but doesn’t have the best hands.

If not Carlisle, what about Battle? I’ve not seen him play much. Is he big enough to play a key position?

[kalsaint]

Completely disagree. Jake isn't the answer to the forward line and by moving him forward you will weaken the defence more than you will strengthen the forwards. Problem is Paddy & Bruce. They are crap at present. Either they get better really quickly or we change the was we play and go for all out speed int eh forwards.
Plus if we kick better we wouldn't even be discussing this.

Agree totally. The issue with forwards not dominating is clearly a structural problem with forwards being used too much in defensive support. Paddy is not Roo in terms of aerobic capacity. He should not be located down back at times and be expected to present with grand leads forward. That's a player misuse problem.

The form was better this week but the conversion is still crap and this time getting shots from Inside 50's is about support from small forwards from contests. Yes we did well to apply pressure but I still see a need for our small forwards to be around the aerial contests more not providing the marking option. Even is tall forwards are swamped having the fleet footed smalls forwards nearby can be rewarded by umpires often much closer and central to goal that seen this week.
We need that discipline back. I used to love Schneider and Milnes ability to create havoc in these circumstances. Our current crop are presenting as an alternative marking player too much and need to be creating issues for opposition defences in the forward line, not from a desperate kick from the midfield under pressure to an empty forward line.

Still more work to do but having someone to target up forward is essential to make the midfield more accountable to straigthen up. Scores will develop from this.

[meher baba]

Moving Jake forward - other than as an occasional shock tactic - is a daft idea. Like Riewoldt, he is a strong marking player but, unlike Riewoldt, he lacks the engine to run all over the field for four quarters.

I can understand peoples' frustration with the dropped marks and wild shooting for goal that we have seen from our full-time forwards this season. But these guys are capable of taking strong marks and hitting the target. It's all about confidence:
when this increases, the hands and the feet start performing much better, as Paddy showed in the second half on Saturday.

As I posted last week, Paddy plus Membrey plus a fleet of small players running forward, plus the ruckman and Acres periodically, is enough in modern football. I hope we don't see Marshall come back in this week as an extra tall. He's a promising player, but our structure looked better without him.

[SydneySainter]

Moving Jake forward - other than as an occasional shock tactic - is a daft idea. Like Riewoldt, he is a strong marking player but, unlike Riewoldt, he lacks the engine to run all over the field for four quarters.

I can understand peoples' frustration with the dropped marks and wild shooting for goal that we have seen from our full-time forwards this season. But these guys are capable of taking strong marks and hitting the target. It's all about confidence:
when this increases, the hands and the feet start performing much better, as Paddy showed in the second half on Saturday.

As I posted last week, Paddy plus Membrey plus a fleet of small players running forward, plus the ruckman and Acres periodically, is enough in modern football. I hope we don't see Marshall come back in this week as an extra tall. He's a promising player, but our structure looked better without him.

Agreed.

Their is more than enough talent in Paddy, Membrey, Gresh, Billings and an occasional cameo from Hickey and Acres to make a functional forward line. Confidence, structure and some consistent deliver from our mids would go a long way into making that a hard forward line to match up on.

Carlisle is by far at his best when played in defence. In frightens me to think of a backline without him. The odd cameo from Carlisle in the forward can have its advantages, but it should be no more than that, a cameo. There have been prolonged periods of Carlisle in the forward and it has so far failed to make any scoring impact.

[The Fireman]

the fact that so many on here have said no makes me think maybe he should be played forward