Pelchen interview SEN

[Crossy66]

Interesting listening, but not too much new. Main points highlighted:
Pelchen joined saints in August 2011 at which time the Saints had the oldest list, 63% of TPP paid to just 10 players, and were $500k OVER the TPP for the 2011 year.
They had to sell stars and renegotiate contracts to get under in 2012 and 2013. By 2014 they had created $1mil in cap space
The newly formed TPP committee comprised Baines, Pelchen, Trout and Nettlefold.
Had the least draft picks in the AFL between 2003 & 2013 (5) compared to Melbourne that had 17.
Saints only retained 29% of players recruited between 2006 - 2011

Basically, the list was in tatters as the Saints threw everything at the premiership tilt in '09, '10

Going forward:
Saints will be a great club again, Richo is an excellent developer of talent and a good coach and fans need to be patient.

[saintspremiers]

So we kept only 29% between 2006-11

What about 2012-2018?

Sure,it’s higher, but that’s because we have so many Dudley’s on the list that need to go!

Pelican forgot to check the quality of our recruiting and player development staff before launching his plan.

[WellardSaint]

Interesting listening, but not too much new. Main points highlighted:
Pelchen joined saints in August 2011 at which time the Saints had the oldest list, 63% of TPP paid to just 10 players, and were $500k OVER the TPP for the 2011 year.
They had to sell stars and renegotiate contracts to get under in 2012 and 2013. By 2014 they had created $1mil in cap space
The newly formed TPP committee comprised Baines, Pelchen, Trout and Nettlefold.
Had the least draft picks in the AFL between 2003 & 2013 (5) compared to Melbourne that had 17.
Saints only retained 29% of players recruited between 2006 - 2011

Basically, the list was in tatters as the Saints threw everything at the premiership tilt in '09, '10

Going forward:
Saints will be a great club again, Richo is an excellent developer of talent and a good coach and fans need to be patient.

Richo is NOT an excellent developer.
Ross has gotten better, but still has massive faults in disposal accuracy and panics too easily.
Acres is slowly getting better.
Others just stagnating.
Adelaide n Sydney are awesome at development.
Rampe, Talia, Doedee, etc show how it should be done.
'Patient'? 5 years of Fairy Dust n Rainbows and where is the club?
Heading for the S-Bend
and relocation to Tassie.
Pelican is another BlueSkyer

[takeaway]

Interesting listening, but not too much new. Main points highlighted:
Pelchen joined saints in August 2011 at which time the Saints had the oldest list, 63% of TPP paid to just 10 players, and were $500k OVER the TPP for the 2011 year.
They had to sell stars and renegotiate contracts to get under in 2012 and 2013. By 2014 they had created $1mil in cap space
The newly formed TPP committee comprised Baines, Pelchen, Trout and Nettlefold.
Had the least draft picks in the AFL between 2003 & 2013 (5) compared to Melbourne that had 17.
Saints only retained 29% of players recruited between 2006 - 2011

Basically, the list was in tatters as the Saints threw everything at the premiership tilt in '09, '10

Going forward:
Saints will be a great club again, Richo is an excellent developer of talent and a good coach and fans need to be patient.

Sounds fair enough to me, especially when you consider the TPP situation after 2010, and the minimal draft picks 2003-2013. Has not been perfect, but I think we have done pretty well. There are plenty of clubs that would not be satisfied with their development over that period. Tough business. I enjoy supporting the Saints, win lose or draw. There are even good things to enjoy hidden amongst losses. But I guess the doomsdayers were promised top four this year, flag by 2020, and they have etched that on their bar. Diddums.

[degruch]

Adelaide n Sydney are awesome at development.
Rampe, Talia, Doedee, etc show how it should be done.

You mean Tom Doedee, the only 2015 first round draft pick yet to play a senior game at the start of this season? Not sure he's the example to make your point.

[saynta]

Interesting listening, but not too much new. Main points highlighted:
Pelchen joined saints in August 2011 at which time the Saints had the oldest list, 63% of TPP paid to just 10 players, and were $500k OVER the TPP for the 2011 year.
They had to sell stars and renegotiate contracts to get under in 2012 and 2013. By 2014 they had created $1mil in cap space
The newly formed TPP committee comprised Baines, Pelchen, Trout and Nettlefold.
Had the least draft picks in the AFL between 2003 & 2013 (5) compared to Melbourne that had 17.
Saints only retained 29% of players recruited between 2006 - 2011

Basically, the list was in tatters as the Saints threw everything at the premiership tilt in '09, '10

Going forward:
Saints will be a great club again, Richo is an excellent developer of talent and a good coach and fans need to be patient.

Saints had only 5 draft picks in 10 years? Was he talking s*** or did you mishear him.?

[Joey]

Interesting listening, but not too much new. Main points highlighted:
Pelchen joined saints in August 2011 at which time the Saints had the oldest list, 63% of TPP paid to just 10 players, and were $500k OVER the TPP for the 2011 year.
They had to sell stars and renegotiate contracts to get under in 2012 and 2013. By 2014 they had created $1mil in cap space
The newly formed TPP committee comprised Baines, Pelchen, Trout and Nettlefold.
Had the least draft picks in the AFL between 2003 & 2013 (5) compared to Melbourne that had 17.
Saints only retained 29% of players recruited between 2006 - 2011

Basically, the list was in tatters as the Saints threw everything at the premiership tilt in '09, '10

Going forward:
Saints will be a great club again, Richo is an excellent developer of talent and a good coach and fans need to be patient.

Saints had only 5 draft picks in 10 years? Was he talking s*** or did you mishear him.?

5 top 20 picks

[saynta]

Interesting listening, but not too much new. Main points highlighted:
Pelchen joined saints in August 2011 at which time the Saints had the oldest list, 63% of TPP paid to just 10 players, and were $500k OVER the TPP for the 2011 year.
They had to sell stars and renegotiate contracts to get under in 2012 and 2013. By 2014 they had created $1mil in cap space
The newly formed TPP committee comprised Baines, Pelchen, Trout and Nettlefold.
Had the least draft picks in the AFL between 2003 & 2013 (5) compared to Melbourne that had 17.
Saints only retained 29% of players recruited between 2006 - 2011

Basically, the list was in tatters as the Saints threw everything at the premiership tilt in '09, '10

Going forward:
Saints will be a great club again, Richo is an excellent developer of talent and a good coach and fans need to be patient.

Saints had only 5 draft picks in 10 years? Was he talking s*** or did you mishear him.?

5 top 20 picks

Thought that must be it. We can't have a pick if we keep trading them.

[SydneySainter]

Of course Pelchen say's the Saints will be a great club again.

To admit that the rebuild has been a misfire would be to admit his own failure in the rebuild, which he or any other football administrator would never do.

[Spinner]

This talk about the plan not being successful is a load of sh1t... Of course you need to build through the draft, its the only way to develop a list. Its not like Pelchen came up with some weird, foreign concept. I like Roos but he is as conflicted and as biased as they come in the media. Always looking to back up mates and his own self interest / past achievements.

The plan was to build a base through the draft, position well for Free Agency and aim for sustained success. Not Pelchen's fault FA hasn't been successful yet... nor the fact we back loaded draft picks based on Hawthorns offer of a pick swap... nor the players we have drafted. Plans need to be re-assessed and flexibly periodically!!


Biggest insight from that interview - a little backhander on not necessarily agreeing with the players we had drafted (and stating it wasn't appropriated to give his view on this) but we can all assume he isn't talking about some mid range teen picks etc. He'd be talking about Petracca / McCartin....

[saintsRrising]

Now

-There are different paths to success including through how you build a list.
-No one gets all their picks correct.

Now having made those two points with the Saints:

- We have very few outperforms. With most of our trades and draft picks we have under-performed. If not for the fringe FA's of Membrey and Robo it would be even worse. But remember all clubs pick up some good rejects and so again we have not out-performed in this regard
- With players gained from other clubs all have been fringe except for Carlisle who had "issues" when we gained him (and just after!!!). This is not how you become a Top 4 Team.
- FA is terms of guns has been a complete failure. The faith in the Saints being able to exploit this was way over-estimated and was probably based on such players choosing us only for $$$. Problem is genuine guns do not swap clubs based solely on $$$
- Rookies. Our poor picking of players is not confined to the main list. With Rookies in recent years we have so far only had one winner in Sinclair, and Marshall who looks likey. Again this is an outperform.

The pick swap with Hawthorn was one of our few wins. But remember this did not entail any quality judgements to be made except to total up the points (which any moron could do) . That 2 second picks were gained in year 1 and a first round in year 2 spread the risk, but in all scenarios we ended up in the positive. HOWEVER I suspect we mainly did this deal so that we could trade for a star in Year 2, and in this we failed.

One year later we counter that with trading our second rounder for pick 34. This entailed a judgement call on picks from 2 different years. It looks likely we have stuffed this up badly as that second rounder looks now to be early 20's.



BOTTOM LINE:
- We are a poor is assessing what players to recruit/draft. That Trout is still in charge of this boggles the mind. He has had enough of a record in this now that we know that he will continue to under-perform.
- We are poor at attracting quality players. given our form of this year you woud have to speculate that this is unlikely to change in 2018.

[Crossy66]

Of course Pelchen say's the Saints will be a great club again.

To admit that the rebuild has been a misfire would be to admit his own failure in the rebuild, which he or any other football administrator would never do.

Yep.
Also, 2011 and 2012 in particular were really average years and on Pelchens watch. Ross, Roberton and perhaps Newnes were ok but none of Milera, Saad, Markwell, Lee, Dennis Lane, Wright, Spencer White, Murdoch, Saunders, Peirce and perhaps Hickey have worked out. Those players would / Should have been in the 80 - 100 games bracket by now and been the backbone of the team.
Seems 2013 onwards we have fared a little better.

[iwantmeseats]

Interesting listening, but not too much new. Main points highlighted:
Pelchen joined saints in August 2011 at which time the Saints had the oldest list, 63% of TPP paid to just 10 players, and were $500k OVER the TPP for the 2011 year.
They had to sell stars and renegotiate contracts to get under in 2012 and 2013. By 2014 they had created $1mil in cap space
The newly formed TPP committee comprised Baines, Pelchen, Trout and Nettlefold.
Had the least draft picks in the AFL between 2003 & 2013 (5) compared to Melbourne that had 17.
Saints only retained 29% of players recruited between 2006 - 2011

Basically, the list was in tatters as the Saints threw everything at the premiership tilt in '09, '10

Going forward:
Saints will be a great club again, Richo is an excellent developer of talent and a good coach and fans need to be patient.

Sounds fair enough to me, especially when you consider the TPP situation after 2010, and the minimal draft picks 2003-2013. Has not been perfect, but I think we have done pretty well. There are plenty of clubs that would not be satisfied with their development over that period. Tough business. I enjoy supporting the Saints, win lose or draw. There are even good things to enjoy hidden amongst losses. But I guess the doomsdayers were promised top four this year, flag by 2020, and they have etched that on their bar. Diddums.

No, Its not that black and white, people are not idiots. Its that the saints are YEARS off top 4 by this stage, if they were even hovering outside the 8 you wouldnt be hearing this talk.

[SydneySainter]

Interesting listening, but not too much new. Main points highlighted:
Pelchen joined saints in August 2011 at which time the Saints had the oldest list, 63% of TPP paid to just 10 players, and were $500k OVER the TPP for the 2011 year.
They had to sell stars and renegotiate contracts to get under in 2012 and 2013. By 2014 they had created $1mil in cap space
The newly formed TPP committee comprised Baines, Pelchen, Trout and Nettlefold.
Had the least draft picks in the AFL between 2003 & 2013 (5) compared to Melbourne that had 17.
Saints only retained 29% of players recruited between 2006 - 2011

Basically, the list was in tatters as the Saints threw everything at the premiership tilt in '09, '10

Going forward:
Saints will be a great club again, Richo is an excellent developer of talent and a good coach and fans need to be patient.

Sounds fair enough to me, especially when you consider the TPP situation after 2010, and the minimal draft picks 2003-2013. Has not been perfect, but I think we have done pretty well. There are plenty of clubs that would not be satisfied with their development over that period. Tough business. I enjoy supporting the Saints, win lose or draw. There are even good things to enjoy hidden amongst losses. But I guess the doomsdayers were promised top four this year, flag by 2020, and they have etched that on their bar. Diddums.

The club has done plenty of its own chest-thumping over the last 24 months - “we’ve recruited well, we’re a destination club, we’re in pole position to hit free agency, we deserve primetime fixturing,”etc. If they want to talk the talk but can’t do the walk, they should be held account.

Pelchen was part of the brains trust that moved on Goddard and Dal for peanuts (McEvoy trade has fared a little better) and was one the architects behind our so far failed free agency plan.

The last AA we had was in 2014 and that was Roo.

Yes, no one is perfect but despite the club’s PR and so called “highly respected” professionals at the helm during various stages, the rebuild is bordering on becoming a complete flop and I think the criticism is perfectly warranted.

[outside66]

Adelaide n Sydney are awesome at development.
Rampe, Talia, Doedee, etc show how it should be done.

You mean Tom Doedee, the only 2015 first round draft pick yet to play a senior game at the start of this season? Not sure he's the example to make your point.

Doedee has played all 3 games this year and has effectively stepped right into Lever's role.

[SaintPav]

Interesting listening, but not too much new. Main points highlighted:
Pelchen joined saints in August 2011 at which time the Saints had the oldest list, 63% of TPP paid to just 10 players, and were $500k OVER the TPP for the 2011 year.
They had to sell stars and renegotiate contracts to get under in 2012 and 2013. By 2014 they had created $1mil in cap space
The newly formed TPP committee comprised Baines, Pelchen, Trout and Nettlefold.
Had the least draft picks in the AFL between 2003 & 2013 (5) compared to Melbourne that had 17.
Saints only retained 29% of players recruited between 2006 - 2011

Basically, the list was in tatters as the Saints threw everything at the premiership tilt in '09, '10

Going forward:
Saints will be a great club again, Richo is an excellent developer of talent and a good coach and fans need to be patient.

Sounds fair enough to me, especially when you consider the TPP situation after 2010, and the minimal draft picks 2003-2013. Has not been perfect, but I think we have done pretty well. There are plenty of clubs that would not be satisfied with their development over that period. Tough business. I enjoy supporting the Saints, win lose or draw. There are even good things to enjoy hidden amongst losses. But I guess the doomsdayers were promised top four this year, flag by 2020, and they have etched that on their bar. Diddums.

No, Its not that black and white, people are not idiots. Its that the saints are YEARS off top 4 by this stage, if they were even hovering outside the 8 you wouldnt be hearing this talk.

I think takeaway is saying that it’s not that black and white...

It looks like we have messed up the rebuild, so far.

There was always going to be a significant risk that the rebuild wasn’t going to pan out, particularly with numpties like Trout and Nettefold running the joint, but the gap between expectation and reality is called marketing.

A few on the board, particularly the ones who have been there since the takeover by the Footyfirst consortium need to go. They’ve overseen the whole strategy so they need to go.

[Con Gorozidis]

Adelaide n Sydney are awesome at development.
Rampe, Talia, Doedee, etc show how it should be done.

You mean Tom Doedee, the only 2015 first round draft pick yet to play a senior game at the start of this season? Not sure he's the example to make your point.

Doedee has played all 3 games this year and has effectively stepped right into Lever's role.

Rd 3 RS nominee I think.

Interesting this year that all nominees so far have been older guys and not first year players.

Maybe it shows that because of the fitness levels now required it is much more difficult to come in and have an impact immediately as an 18 year old.
Just a thought.

[David-Lee]

I think Pelchen and Co . Did do a great job of saving us from the situation we faced in 2011. But at 2014 we needed a different approach...he was not the needed architect of a build although he was the valued architect of the SOS in 2011.

People keep saying we kicked ass in the Hawthorn trade in which we flushed our best ruckman in many years and who recently was best on ground imho (I know he's not perfect)

But in spite of the trade and resulting draft pick ups I dont understand why people can't see we had the same ability to trade for Jaeger O'Meara (Gold Coast) and Tom Mitchell (Sydney Swans)
I'd rather have them than the resulting pick 7 and 8. I'm not slagging the lads glad to have them than not. But 2 ready made mids that can play ( even though not sure we could recoup Jaeger to health like Hawks - seems we can't get Freeman right)...I dont see evidence we can develop pick 7 or 8 into a Tom Mitchell ...if we keep this coaching we have to buy in the fruits of another labourer.
Imagine a quick midfield with insane possession and clearance power...even Paddy might take a mark with 120 entries into the 50.

[degruch]

Adelaide n Sydney are awesome at development.
Rampe, Talia, Doedee, etc show how it should be done.

You mean Tom Doedee, the only 2015 first round draft pick yet to play a senior game at the start of this season? Not sure he's the example to make your point.

Doedee has played all 3 games this year and has effectively stepped right into Lever's role.

Took him 3 years to get there, and only because Lever left, otherwise he'd probably still be in the ressies. Maybe he is proof that an extended stay in the 2nds doesn't necessarily hurt development?

[saintsRrising]

But in spite of the trade and resulting draft pick ups I dont understand why people can't see we had the same ability to trade for Jaeger O'Meara (Gold Coast) and Tom Mitchell (Sydney Swans)
.

While I understand your logic, the problem is neither wanted to be at St Kilda.


And indeed so far every Big Fish apart from Carlisle has said no.

[SaintPav]

Do you know that for a fact?

[takeaway]

But in spite of the trade and resulting draft pick ups I dont understand why people can't see we had the same ability to trade for Jaeger O'Meara (Gold Coast) and Tom Mitchell (Sydney Swans)
.

While I understand your logic, the problem is neither wanted to be at St Kilda.


And indeed so far every Big Fish apart from Carlisle has said no.

The real big fish, ie Kelly, Martin, Fyfe who we had varying tries at, along with plenty of others, said no to everyone. We didn't go after O'Meara, we already had an injury experiment with Freeman, but we got a good draft deal because of O'Meara. Mitchell, a good get, was not really a big fish, and I doubt we had much of a try to get him. He was always going to Hawks.

[Sainternist]

Listening to the Pelican speak actually helped me put our current situation into better perspective.

For those who missed it: https://www.sen.com.au/news/2018/04/10/ ... ottom-out/

[asiu]

yea , agreed
that was an interesting listen

[portosaint]

Listening to the Pelican speak actually helped me put our current situation into better perspective.

For those who missed it: https://www.sen.com.au/news/2018/04/10/ ... ottom-out/

+1

It seems the Saints put all their eggs in 1 basket. (Or should I say, 10... Ahem)

Its a fickle industry. Snag one or both flags in '09 and '10 and things would be different. They threw everything at it, albeit a bit negligently, and just fell short. Hard to fathom we ended up so far behind in this day and age